Reflagging and Hawaii---Will it Work?

[jwlane]

Is this an experiment destined to fail?

[KeystoneCruiser]

I wish there was another catagory. I think the American flagged ships can only work if some changes are made in the laws allowing for a greater number of the crew to be international. Cruise work is hard as many POA employees are finding out. It is like no other service job, long hours, little free time and no place to spend free time. There are too many other jobs for Americans that pay the same and involve less work and therefore they will always find it hard to staff the ships. They really can't pay higher wages or the cruise price for the Hawaii cruises, which is already high, will go so high that even with being the only game in town, people won't sail.

 

I am not sure how they plan to staff 3 ships in two years when they have had over 10 months to staff the Aloha and can't get her up to full strength.

 

I vote maybe only because I think if some laws are changed, then perhaps the idea can work.

[albertiger]

i cant vote because i feel NCL will succeed but i dont think any other line will follow. the ships will be in place and adjustments will be made. if i were younger i would apply in a flash! :(

[shoreguy]

None of the above. I never count NCL out. Freestyle was certain to fail based on early results. Nobody would cruise out of NY in winter. NCL will give this new enterprise several years. Only time will tell.

[Michael Ho Ho]

The other cruise lines were already invited to reflag and go to Hawaii.

Carnival offered to do it only if they could use foreign crew. U.S. Govt said "No". Carnival said "No thanks".

RCCL said "No thanks" as well.

 

Other than NCLAmerica, nobody else was interested.

 

After the dismal results of the past several months, does anyone really think that another cruise line is willing to bet $Billions$ that it would work?

[mbisson]

Another who can't vote. I think NCL will do OK but I don't think others will follow suit.

 

-Monte

[Traveler39]

Based on everything that has happen to the passengers and crew of the poa since April this year.......It appears to me that top management of NCL can not hire and train another crew for an even larger ship..... If these new ships sailed out of the mainland and could hire in California then maybe...

 

It is my opinion that NCL and the management that runs the company are too slow and set in their ways to properly manage a fleet out of Hawaii...

 

I spoke with a supervisor in the executive offices (what I was told) last week and she stated that they were happy with their top management efforts to provide a nice cruise experience with the poa in Hawaii...

 

When I ask if she read C.C. she stated that yes several employees did read and keep up with the complaints and she felt that there would be no more complaints and that everything was running as schedule and up to ncl standards.... I ask if they had taken steps to teach the crew in the buffet area how to scramble eggs where they are not runny..... She replied that she had never heard that complaint...??????? I question that ncl management is really in touch with the reality of the problems of the poa!

[shoreguy]

snip... I ask if they had taken steps to teach the crew in the buffet area how to scramble eggs where they are not runny..... She replied that she had never heard that complaint...??????? I question that ncl management is really in touch with the reality of the problems of the poa!

 

This is the one complaint that mystfies me. I perfer my eggs runny. That said the usual complaint is the "powdered eggs" that NCL uses for the buffet always send me to the omlet station for fresh eggs.

 

On other ships they usually look runny from all the butter they add to the mix to make them moist. How do you undercook powded eggs?

[Traveler39]

Good point Shoreguy..... Eggs can be cooked or undercooked to suit the taste of many.... I like my eggs cooked medium dry and not floating around in liquid... Never cooked powered eggs so really do not know the situation there but would imagine they add milk to powered eggs and could add too much milk/liquid.... Butter and Cheese can not ruin eggs for me! Just cook off the extra liquid... Runny eggs do go good with grits!

 

I will check this out on the poa soon and see what the deal is.... Think about omlettes.... Are they ever cooked and still wet and runny? When all else fails I will just have them cooked to order for me.....NCL freestyle , you know!

[shoreguy]

Traveler39

 

Nobody will be better prepared for the POA then you. Expectations always have a lotto do with how much we enjoy our adventures. Your expectations should be in line with the product.

 

I hate all buffets and attack them as a team sport. Even on the Sun in August. One of us hit the main area for breakfast meat, begals, Salmon, and coffeee. One of use hit the omlet line for eggs and omlets. My other son was incharge of fresh fruit and waffels. Grab a couple of extra plates and meet at the table.

 

Enjoy your cruise - you will love Hawaii

[Kami's pal]

"Certainly. Americans are too lazy to work so much for so little"

 

I didn't vote because I refuse to label a whole group of people "lazy". If I do this, then am I saying that all NON AMERICAN crew are not lazy?

 

Why not word the choice this way :

"NO, because Americans will learn to love the chance to work 12 hour days, 7 days a week, for minimum wages for 11 months at a time"

 

or:

 

"No because owners will decide to take less profit, and hire more staff so that each person can have minimum 2 days off a week, plus guaranteed wages starting at legal minimum hourly wage paid by comparable restaurants and hotels on land, plus salary increases commensurate with performance reviews by passengers and supervisors."

[Traveler39]

Traveler39

 

Nobody will be better prepared for the POA then you. Expectations always have a lotto do with how much we enjoy our adventures. Your expectations should be in line with the product.

 

I hate all buffets and attack them as a team sport. Even on the Sun in August. One of us hit the main area for breakfast meat, begals, Salmon, and coffeee. One of use hit the omlet line for eggs and omlets. My other son was incharge of fresh fruit and waffels. Grab a couple of extra plates and meet at the table.

 

Enjoy your cruise - you will love Hawaii

 

You are right Shoreguy.... I am now ready to accept the poa and enjoy the cruise.... It is time to make the best of a bad situation ( The sinking of the Pride of America) and enjoy Hawaii and the cruise.... Third trip to Hawaii and we will be relaxed and go back to the special places of our other trips to Hawaii...We have visited every island at least once before this cruise...

 

Your description of how to work the buffet is exactly how my wife and I use a buffet on a cruise... Usually she will get a table next to a window and I will bring the food... Or we work both sides of the buffet and meet in the middle .... A buffet can be fun... and I can live with a good omlette and / or waffle....

[Michael Ho Ho]

Traveler39,

 

Good points about sailing POA ships from the mainland and hiring from California.

Unfortunately they won`t work.

 

The re-flagging deal with Pride of Aloha only allows her to maintain a US Flag when sailing in Hawaiian waters. She cannot go to the West Coast with a US Flag.

 

The new POA Ships could sail from the West Coast if they wanted - but then they would be forced to compete against foreign ships doing the same thing. The foreign ships have the advantage of much lower operating costs, much more productive crew, no taxes, duty-free shopping, casino, lower bar prices, and a generally better product. It would be a massacre.

 

NCL America already is hiring in California. The only other states with more crew on POA are Hawaii and Washington.

[jwlane]

Why not word the choice this way :

 

For brevity's sake.

[jwlane]

Traveler39,

 

She cannot go to the West Coast with a US Flag.

 

 

The requirement for non-US flagged ships is they must make a foreign port call on a sailing that begins and ends in a US port. I believe a US-flag ship can sail San Diego/LA/San Fran to/from Hawaii and not make that foreign stop.

[Michael Ho Ho]

jwlane,

 

You are correct about EVERY U.S. Flagged ship - except Pride of Aloha. She was not built in a US Yard and does not have a US Keel or any US Steel in her. Technically she cannot be flagged U.S. The U.S. Congress made a special deal for her (nearly the same deal they made for the M/S Patriot at American Hawaii Cruises) that allows her to have a US Flag - but only if she stays in Hawaii. This prevents a foreign-built (but US Flagged) ship from competing against more "legitimate" US Flagged ships on the West Coast. The American Maritime Unions and American Shipping Companies insisted on this provision before they would agree to allow the US Flag for Patriot and Pride of Aloha.

[Kami's pal]

For brevity's sake.

 

Why not word the third choice ---

 

What? Did you post before you finished your thought?

[bUU]

I didn't vote because I refuse to label a whole group of people "lazy".

Besides, Americans, on the whole, are anything BUT lazy. Rather, the issue is that within the US, Americans generally have access to far better-paying jobs with better working conditions than non-Americans. So, while cruise lines get some of the best service-workers many countries have to offer, they cannot even hope for the best service-workers the United States has to offer.

[Traveler39]

 

NCL America already is hiring in California. The only other states with more crew on POA are Hawaii and Washington.

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, NCL and the POA needs crew members from other areas of the USA.... The people cruising are from all around the USA.... The crew may be a bit more stable and have different work habits if they represented the major areas of the North, South and East along with the West... The different regional work habits would be interesting when mixed on the POA.

[ekistics22]

Personally, I think that NCL will succeed. I define success as 2 or more American-flagged NCL ships serving the Hawaiian islands. I believe in one of its press releases, NCL said they plan to have 3 ships in Hawaii.

 

I believe it will succeed because Hawaii is one of those premium destination markets. People I know who have gone, call it their "once in a lifetime" vacation. When you view it that way, you are willing to pay a little more. Plus, any avid golfer will tell you that you haven't played golf until you've played somewhere in Hawaii. Plus, my TA said that NCL just raised the cruise rates 40% after our Sept. 5 - 12, 2004 Pride of Aloha cruise. A company does not raise its rates 40% unless it believes the market will bear that.

 

If NCL was really smart, they'd make the 3rd ship a smaller ship, say 700 passengers and have it visit all of the smaller ports the mega cruise ships can't visit. A smaller ship can make the snorkel-focused and/or scuba-focused stops like anchoring near Molikini Island. That'll give people a real choice.

 

Last, a better poll, IMHO, would offer choices without the reasons, since the discussion thread is where people can explain why they voted for a particular choice. So, a better formatted poll would have been:

- Yes

- No

- Don't Know

- Perhaps

- Don't care

 

George

[Michael Ho Ho]

Traveler39,

You suggest that NCL "Mix it up a bit". Excellent idea. They already did that. They have been holding hiring fairs in nearly every state for the past year. After Hawaii, Washington, and California, they have quite a few crew from Wisconsin, Minnesota, New York, Florida. and Louisiana. And small numbers from many other states. That doesn`t seem to help the situation.

 

Ekistics22,

You suggest that NCL Build a smaller 700 passenger ship. Also an interesting idea - since every major cruise line is building bigger and bigger ships. But then they have good reason. Small ships lose money in today`s market. Their building and operating costs are nearly as high as those for a big ship, but their revenues are only half or less. POA is already losing something like $3 Million a month. Shall they build an expensive new smaller ship and then lose double or triple that every month? I don`t think the shareholders would be too happy about that one.

[jkrislc]

Small ships lose money in today`s market. Their building and operating costs are nearly as high as those for a big ship, but their revenues are only half or less.

 

While economy of scale does play a role, Princess seems to be doing fine with the former R3 and R4 (Tahitian and Pacific Princesses). Some ports simply aren't suited for real large ships, and small ships can be a draw for some. Bermuda is a great example.

[Michael Ho Ho]

The former R3 and R4 helped bankrupt Renaissance Cruises. They thought they could operate a small-ship cruise line and make a profit. They were wrong. I worked on Renaissance Ships during their first and third bankruptcies.

 

Now Princess has picked then up for next to nothing (very little debt to service) and is possibly making a small profit.

 

If you were Managing Director of NCL America, would you then take those small ships - with very little debt to service - to Hawaii; remove the Casino, cancel Bingo, lose Duty-Free Status and most of the revenues, cancel most Art Auction Revenues, increase fuel costs by 50%, increase beverage costs by 70%, increase payroll by $1.5 MILLION per month, pay US Taxes, retrofit the vessel for US Public Health Standards and US Coast Guard Standards (refitting the Nor. Spirit cost $17 Million), and still hope to make a profit and keep your job?

 

Maybe it is a bit like Rocket Science??

[Michael Ho Ho]

The former R3 and R4 helped bankrupt Renaissance Cruises. They thought they could operate a small-ship cruise line and make a profit. They were wrong. I worked on Renaissance Ships during their first and third bankruptcies.

 

Now Princess has picked them up for next to nothing (very little debt to service) and is possibly making a small profit.

 

If you were Managing Director of NCL America, would you then take those small ships - with very little debt to service - to Hawaii; remove the Casino, cancel Bingo, lose Duty-Free Status and most of the revenues, cancel most Art Auction Revenues, increase fuel costs by 50%, increase beverage costs by 70%, increase payroll by $1.5 MILLION per month, pay US Taxes, retrofit the vessel for US Public Health Standards and US Coast Guard Standards (refitting the Nor. Spirit cost $17 Million), and still hope to make a profit and keep your job?

 

Maybe it is a bit like Rocket Science??

[Traveler39]

The former R3 and R4 helped bankrupt Renaissance Cruises. They thought they could operate a small-ship cruise line and make a profit. They were wrong. I worked on Renaissance Ships during their first and third bankruptcies.

 

Now Princess has picked them up for next to nothing (very little debt to service) and is possibly making a small profit.

 

If you were Managing Director of NCL America,

 

Maybe it is a bit like Rocket Science??

 

Michael.... With your posted experiences in cruising it would seem that you could explain why ncl management does not use bus boys in the poa dining rooms? To save money of course but why do they continue to offer reduced service in the dining rooms when most posted passengers seems to be unhappy with the slow service and cold food? It is not rocket science is it?

 

Your statement above "if you were the managing director of ncl America" .... Do you really believe that this title is a person who has made these decisions on the staffing of the poa, etc... Or is it just a part of ncl and this ship is being run / managed by the normal top ncl management that managements directly all of their ships...? I ask because it seems that you are pulling the responsibility away from ncl's top management who I believe is in command on a daily basis and makes all of the decisions... NCLA is just a front....

 

It seems that you have a history of the management of cruise ships... Have you sailed on the poa.... ?