Alaska Specific Photography Question

[tekjr1]

I have purchased some fairly good equipment for my upcoming trip. (EOS 40D, L Series 100-400 zoom) and am hoping to make that leap into truly great wildlife and landscape photos.

 

My question concerns CF. Of the available CF cards, how fast does one need the card to be written to? Sandisk makes the Extreme II, III, and I think the IV.

 

For the type of photos I mentioned, what should I get. I am thinking of buying a 16mb or at least an 8mb.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

[PennyAgain]

Memory cards are getting less expensive as time passes. We always have extras along.

 

Instead of carrying along a computer, we use the extra memory cards to store photos as the trip goes on. We use a Sharpie pen to number the memory cards and keep a list of what's what and who used each card. If we lose a card or even a camera, we still have the other cards (not carried in the same case) to preserve photos.

 

When we get home, we sort it all out, upload the cards to computers and do back ups which we store elsewhere.

 

Works for us!

[sondrad]

I know for Point & Shoot cameras that their speed of taking pictures is limited by the speed of the memory card. I'm not sure if that holds true for DSLRs. If it does, I would go with a faster card to get those great pics of eagles, whales, etc.

 

You might be able to find more answers to your question on the photo discussion board or here http://www.dpreview.com/

[MeadMkr]

My question concerns CF. Of the available CF cards, how fast does one need the card to be written to? Sandisk makes the Extreme II, III, and I think the IV.

 

Given the current price and performance of the cards you mentioned it is hard to go wrong with either Lexar or Sandisk provided it is 60x or faster. Most current dSLRs are the bottleneck rather than the cards. Compare WRITE SPEED which is usually a bit slower than the read speeds. I have mostly Ultra IIs (~60x) for my old Oly E300's but a few Extreme IIIs (~133x). Personally I like smaller cards (1-4 gig) so not all of my pics are on a single card should something happen (ie, all of your eggs in 1 basket).

 

At the end of the day I either dump the card to a laptop or use something called a portable storage device (Nexto OTG) which has a 80gb disk with a battery pack I can use in the field. The smaller cards are easier to create a backup on DVD as well. I like the PSD as I can dump cards from my wife's or other family member's cameras (with an SD->CF adapter) so I have a copy of their pics as well. I'm often tagged as the family photographer or coordinator. After we get home we can then do any post processing and then send out DVDs with photos from the trip or put them up on a website.

 

As a rough guide to comparing brands:

60X = 9MB/s 80X = 12MB/s 133X = 20MB/s

 

Another thing is that reliability of the cards, both of the above brands/lines (Sandisk Ultra/Extreme and Lexar Pro) have very good reputations.... I normally buy my memory either at Costco (locally) or online at newegg.com

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

http://www.pbase.com/meadmkr

[buelah111]

Scansdisk is having a great rebate right now (through the 30th, I think). I ordered 3 Scandisk Extreme III's yesterday and I'll get a $50 rebate back, basically cutting the price in half. I know bhphoto has their rebate form on-line, so you can look at the rebate offers for the card(s) you are wanting (I didn't buy my cards there, but seeing the form was helpful).

[Yukon]

When you start with high-quality equipment, it makes no sense to me to use cheapo cards as some people do. I shoot with an EOS 40D, using Sandisk Extreme III 1-gig cards, and I dump the card(s) onto my laptop every night. I've shot over 18,000 photos that way, including 3,400 photos in New Zealand last month, with no issues. Have fun!

 

Murray

[judynorth]

I would also recommend smaller cards (2 GB - 4 GB). If a card goes bad (and they do) or you lose one, you haven't lost 500 pictures! :eek: I have had one Sandisk card go bad. Sandisk replaced it but, of course, I lost the photos. I have a point-and-shoot and use 1GB cards in it. My DH has a DSLR and uses 2 GB cards. All of the cards are Sandisk Extreme II or III except for one Lexar Pro. He is taking 9 cards to Alaska and we are taking my laptop. He shoots in RAW at highest quality which takes up much more space than JPEG. I had an Epson 2000 PSD for transfering files but now have a laptop. The laptop is so much easier even though it is a pain to haul around!

 

BTW, on most ships you can download your cards to CD's in the photo shop. If you choose to do this be sure to check that all the pictures are on the CD. I have read here that some people have had problems with that on some ships.

[gazingm42]

DSLR is the way to go for some wildlife pictures. I own a Nikon DSLR

camera and alway researching the other cameras. This is a very nice

camera you have purchased.

 

The EOS 40D camera can shoot 6.5 fps and the internal image buffer can

handle 75 JPG files. So you will have no delay in dumping your images

to CF memory.

 

I personally have several 4GB and a few 2GB cards. You pay more per

MB on the 8 and 16 cards. While you can find the 4GB cards for less that

$15.00 these days. I just got a email this last week from buy dot com for

a 4GB for 13.00 with free shipping. I purchased kingston 4G and were free

after a rebate.

 

If you watch you can find them pretty inexpensive online with free shipping.

 

I would get the 4 or 2 vs buying a large 8 or 16. We normally have about

16G with us and it more than enough for 2 week trip. But we do take our

laptop and off load the pictures and burn a DVD with the pictures.

[photodoodle]

I concur with what everyone has said about bringing more 2 GB cards rather than fewer large cards. When shooting wildlife, you may want to shoot in burst mode, so this is when the write speed of your card really matters. I use 150x cards.

 

One thing that saved me a lot of time in the editing process was to do a first cut using the stateroom tv as a monitor. Most digital cameras come wtih a cable that connects it to a tv using the yellow video input (RCA jack?) on the tv. I then review shots using the camera, but the images appear on the tv. I can quickly toss anything that is an easy call to trash (and believe me, I had plenty of them). I delete everything that is out of focus, no subject in the frame (happens a lot shooting wildlife, especially birds), etc.

 

I also took a laptop to download, store, and edit photos. I brought along blank CDs and archived on those.

 

Have fun shooting in Alaska. I used the 100-400, too, and it was very appropriate for wildlife there.

[OldCodger73]

Tom, I'm also a firm believer in using smaller cards, so instead of getting a 16GB card I'd get 16GBs in a mix of 2 and 4GB cards.

 

About the only time the speed of a card makes any difference is if you're in burst mode and fill up the camera's buffer. I use Sandisk Ultra II cards and have found them to be fast enough for me, but then I have a Canon XT which has a burst rate of only 3fps. Burst mode also works great for shooting glaciers as they calve.

 

The 100-400L is a great all purpose telephoto zoom and should cover your long end quite well. Out of curiosity, what lenses are you using for your walk-around and for wide angle?

[gazingm42]

Also remember with DSLR there a croping factor around 1.3 as I recall.

 

So my lenses of 100 - 400 gives a little better performance than on a

SLR.

[MeadMkr]

Each year I shoot our community's triathlon for kids where the shooting can be fast and furious at times... Here are some of the things I've learned from others over the past few years:

 

1. Don't delete pics on the card and keep shooting - this not only fragments the memory on the card which can make things slower but also gives the possibility of accidentally deleting a good photo. And in some lower quality cards can actually cause corruption.
   
2. Don't erase or format the card via your computer! Always format the card in the camera.
   
3. Label your cards with a # and your phone number in case one gets lost. When you offload them use the date & card # as part of the folder name. Or take a look at a utility like Breeze Downloader Pro - http://www.breezesys.com/Downloader/index.htm I have a partially automated 'workflow' when that creates folders on the event name, date & card# and then creates several subfolders (originals, raw, working, print)
   
4. Only after I make a 2nd copy of the images to DVD/external HD do I then reformat the card in the camera.
   
5. Timing.... Whenever I noticed the card starting to get full I switch to a new card if there is a lull or break (same with the batteries). Better to 'waste space' than to miss shots due to a card full or dead battery. You can always fill them off if shooting slows or in slower paced shooting. Speaking of batteries, remember cold decreases the capacity of most batteries. In very cold weather keep an extra one in an inside pocket and swap as needed.
   
6. I put a thin label inside the camera battery compartment with my name/# in case they get stolen or lost. I also print my serial #'s on a business card and laminate it and stick a copy in my wallet and with my other papers (same with a laptop).
   
7. As others do I typically shoot images as SHQ JPG or in tricky lighting RAW+JPG. Most kiosks cannot process Olympus RAW (if they can do RAW at all). RAW is basically a copy of what the sensor captured without the camera's processing of the data down to a JPG format which is a lossy compression format.

Sorry to be long winded but figured I'd share some of the things others have taught me....

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

http://www.pbase.com/meadmkr

[tekjr1]

Tom, I'm also a firm believer in using smaller cards, so instead of getting a 16GB card I'd get 16GBs in a mix of 2 and 4GB cards

 

The 100-400L is a great all purpose telephoto zoom and should cover your long end quite well. Out of curiosity, what lenses are you using for your walk-around and for wide angle?

 

Hey,

 

Thanks for the info. I am going to take the advice and go with several 2-4 gig cards instead of a 8 or 16.

 

When I bought the camera it came with a Canon 28-135 IS f 3.5-5.6. I then purchased an Canon EFS 17-55 before purchasing the 100-400. I am hoping the two shorter lenses will fill my needs for my "walking around" situations. Please feel free to add any helpful suggestions for other lenses I might need for this trip. I do like the L series equipment.

[PennyAgain]

Each year I shoot our community's triathlon for kids where the shooting can be fast and furious at times... Here are some of the things I've learned from others over the past few years:

 

1. Don't delete pics on the card and keep shooting - this not only fragments the memory on the card which can make things slower but also gives the possibility of accidentally deleting a good photo. And in some lower quality cards can actually cause corruption.
   
2. Don't erase or format the card via your computer! Always format the card in the camera.
   
3. Label your cards with a # and your phone number in case one gets lost. When you offload them use the date & card # as part of the folder name. Or take a look at a utility like Breeze Downloader Pro - http://www.breezesys.com/Downloader/index.htm I have a partially automated 'workflow' when that creates folders on the event name, date & card# and then creates several subfolders (originals, raw, working, print)
   
4. Only after I make a 2nd copy of the images to DVD/external HD do I then reformat the card in the camera.
   
5. Timing.... Whenever I noticed the card starting to get full I switch to a new card if there is a lull or break (same with the batteries). Better to 'waste space' than to miss shots due to a card full or dead battery. You can always fill them off if shooting slows or in slower paced shooting. Speaking of batteries, remember cold decreases the capacity of most batteries. In very cold weather keep an extra one in an inside pocket and swap as needed.
   
6. I put a thin label inside the camera battery compartment with my name/# in case they get stolen or lost. I also print my serial #'s on a business card and laminate it and stick a copy in my wallet and with my other papers (same with a laptop).
   
7. As others do I typically shoot images as SHQ JPG or in tricky lighting RAW+JPG. Most kiosks cannot process Olympus RAW (if they can do RAW at all). RAW is basically a copy of what the sensor captured without the camera's processing of the data down to a JPG format which is a lossy compression format.

Sorry to be long winded but figured I'd share some of the things others have taught me....

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

http://www.pbase.com/meadmkr

 

Chris, great ideas!

 

We own and use a lot of memory cards in a variety of sizes.

 

For Alaska it is essential to have a method for keeping your cameras and etc. dry. I use Zip-Loc bags and even plastic shower caps. My husband prefers to use fancier (and more expensive) methods. I tend to over package when it comes to trying to keep things safe and dry.

 

Over the decades I've had a couple of situations in Alaska where a camera got dropped, got frozen or just wet. Sometimes it can't be helped. One of our cameras instruction books has the advice 'don't sit on camera'. I guess that can happen with these little guys.

 

No, I don't go all the way back to using flash powder!

 

Thanks Chris!

[Amy G]

I had no clue that media cards had write speeds until this message- so thank you!

 

I was just looking up SD cards on Amazon to check out what was available and had a question. What write speed should I be looking for when it is posted like this: Write Speed: 9 Mbps. Is this fast? What is considered slower?

[kenish]

Hi- I have a lot of technical experience with memory cards with a company that designs and manufactures them. My comments apply to all memory cards regardless of manufacturer:

 

- The comments by others in this thread are generally "right on".

 

- It's better to have several smaller capacity cards rather than a single big one. You are not putting all your eggs in one basket. Also, flash memory works by storing tiny electrical charges in what I will call "buckets". One way to increase capacity is to use smaller buckets. The trade-off is it's easier to corrupt the data. Lower capacity cards are more robust. By the way, don't put your memory cards through security X-ray machines at the airport or boarding your ship. People occasionally lose data or photos. Be sure the cards are in your pocket or wallet when you go through security. There isn't enough metal in the cards to trigger the metal detector (even if you're "wanded").

 

- All flash cards have bad areas of memory, just like the hard disk in your PC. Extra "check" data is added to take care of this. When data is read from the card, a microcomputer in the card uses this extra data to check and correct data. High-speed cards partially or totally bypass this feature because it slows down write and read speeds. i.e. you're running naked. Most of the high speed cards are supplied with data recovery software....there's a reason why!

 

- Stick with a "name brand". Lexar and SanDisk are good, I don't work for either. The inexpensive ones are built under contract by second-tier companies in China and brand-labeled (like car batteries or bleach)...there are very few companies that actually manufacture cards. It's similar to blank CD's. I'm sure you've bought some that are great, and others where a lot of them end up as "coasters".

 

- I keep a photo and a PDF of my contact info on every memory card. If someone finds it, they are likely to see the info.

 

Hope this helps, enjoy your cruise!!

[OldCodger73]

Also remember with DSLR there a croping factor around 1.3 as I recall.

 

So my lenses of 100 - 400 gives a little better performance than on a

SLR.

 

Different camera companies have different crop factor on their less than full frame DSLRs. Nikon is typically 1.5, while Canon is 1.6 except on their pro 1D models where, I think it's 1.3. I don't have a clue about Olympus, Sony or Pentax DSLRs.

[epkesq]

Hey,

 

Thanks for the info. I am going to take the advice and go with several 2-4 gig cards instead of a 8 or 16.

 

When I bought the camera it came with a Canon 28-135 IS f 3.5-5.6. I then purchased an Canon EFS 17-55 before purchasing the 100-400. I am hoping the two shorter lenses will fill my needs for my "walking around" situations. Please feel free to add any helpful suggestions for other lenses I might need for this trip. I do like the L series equipment.

 

One lens you might not have thought of is a nice macro lens. I was shocked that some of my favorite Alaska photos were macro shots. I have a very good macro lens, but left it on the ship when I went to Juneau. I still made some photos that I really liked, but I would have been able to take many more and much better photos with my macro lens. Also, I really enjoy using my 10-22 lens for fun wide-angle shots of the glaciers. They really are impressive. Finally, consider your filters. I'm going back again this year and I've begun researching ideal filters for use in Alaska. And, I'd like to get your L lens before I go, but we'll see!

[MeadMkr]

One lens you might not have thought of is a nice macro lens. I was shocked that some of my favorite Alaska photos were macro shots. I have a very good macro lens, but left it on the ship

 

Which reminds me to add the macro lens to my packing list as well as a polarizer filter with all the water/snow as wel.... I'm half tempted to bring the R72 filter to try a little infrared photography but don't want to schlep the tripod :)

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

[tekjr1]

Which reminds me to add the macro lens to my packing list as well as a polarizer filter with all the water/snow as wel.... I'm half tempted to bring the R72 filter to try a little infrared photography but don't want to schlep the tripod :)

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

 

Thanks Chris,

 

Do you feel that the polarizing filters are critical? If so, are there more than one type of polarizing filter? Also what is a good brand? I am guessing you would use them only when you have bright sun,snow etc. I am assuming the regular u/v/haze filter will suffice during the other times.

 

BTW does that user name refer to a hobby that involves mixing large ammounts of honey and water to produce a rather potent beverage?

 

Tom

Ft Myers, FL

[MeadMkr]

>> Do you feel that the polarizing filters are critical? If so, are there more than one type of polarizing filter? Also what is a good brand? <<

 

Critical? Well that depends on what you are trying to photograph, the environment and the lighting. One challenge I have with cruise or other group vacations is that you don't always have the option of hitting a location during the optimal light for photography... Filters don't take up a lot of room in the bag (nor my little 35mm macro lens) and they can mean the difference between snapshots and some really great shots.

 

As to UV/clear filters I actualy started moving away from 'protective filters' except when around a lot of salt-spray or heavy dust. Better to scratch a $50 filter than a $500 lens. I'm finding a good lens hood does just as good a job when it comes to protecting the lens and it doesn't reduce the amount of available light for the sensor. A general rule of thumb is the more expensive the lens the better the filter should be so you don't degrade the image quality or add any reflections/flare. I still find a good circular polarizing (c.p.) filter (Hoya, B+W and others) to be a valuable addition to my bag!. My wife's family love water and snow so there usually is a Hoya Pro c.p. filter on at least 1 of my cameras when outside. Most dSLR need the c.p. vrs linear pol. due to their focusing/metering systems.

I get most of my filters for either 2filters.com or filterhouse.com and have always had great service from both with prices normally much better than other shops. If you don't have one pick up either the small Giotta Rocket blower or a childs 'ear bulb' to blow dust off the lens. Do that before any other cleaning of a filter/lens! If you like shooting landscapes you might also consider a graduated neutral density filter or Infrared filter. The latter aren't exactly cheap but it can be fun to play with on overcast days when there is still a lot of IR light bouncing around.

 

>> BTW does that user name refer to a hobby that involves mixing large ammounts of honey and water to produce a rather potent beverage? <<

 

Yup :D I've been brewing mead, beer & wines for about 10 years now. Normally I brew melomels (fruit meads) but have also won a competition for my spiced mead. The problem is that it takes 2-3 years for my meads to age to where I really like them. By then 5 gallons (~36-48 bottles) seems to disappear pretty fast as the Mrs like to gift them:mad:

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

[Amy G]

My last post was stuck in the middle and got lost, so I thought I would try again!

 

I was just looking up SD cards on Amazon to check out what was available and had a question. What write speed should I be looking for when it is posted like this: Write Speed: 9 Mbps. Is this fast? What is considered slower?

__________________

[qiangf2]

I agree with many great recommendation and replies from other posters on this thread. I would go with no more than 4GB for CF. As for speed, Ultra II from Sandisk is sufficient for me. But if you often shoot in burst mode, you may consider Extreme III. BTW, I really like the 100-400L lens. Have fun.

[qiangf2]

My last post was stuck in the middle and got lost, so I thought I would try again!

 

I was just looking up SD cards on Amazon to check out what was available and had a question. What write speed should I be looking for when it is posted like this: Write Speed: 9 Mbps. Is this fast? What is considered slower?

__________________

 

It depends on how fast your camera can shoot pictures. For DSLRs, they have internal buffer to store some images temporarily before writing to CF cards. If CF card speed is not fast enough to keep up with internal buffer reading speed, your burst mode shooting will slow down. Your 9MB/s writing speed is equivalent to Sandisk UltraII CF card. So, I will say it is good enough for most of the shooting situation, unless you are firing up 50 rounds in 10 seconds. :)

[MeadMkr]

So, I will say it is good enough for most of the shooting situation, unless you are firing up 50 rounds in 10 seconds. :)

 

If you are shooting a P&S under 6 megapixels or if the dSLR is over 3 years old then 60-80x is a pretty safe bet. For casual shooting I'd say 60x was more than fast enough.

 

I shoot mostly with 1 or 2gb Ultra IIs (60x) in my Oly E300's where are about 4 years old. It is the exception rather than the rule shoot fast (like our community triathlon) and even then usually in shorts bursts. I got to test a few faster cards from a buddy and noticed only a marginal gain jumping from 60x to 133x and no gain between 133x and 266x since my cameras are the bottleneck . At the time I bought most of my 60x the 133x were about 3x the price!

 

If you have a recent camera model with a few cards already I would personally buy several 2-4gb 133x cards because the price difference vrs the 60x is about $2-3/gig. The last I looked the 266x had dropped to just under twice the price of the 133x. And I know I'll be upgrading to an E3 (10.1mp) for our trip in July which is a much much faster camera. I plan on buying maybe one 4gb 266x card for use when flightseeing or fast action. The 60x & 133x I have will still work for my normal shooting style. If I feel the need to have a fast card in my primary camera I'll simply use the slower cards in my 2nd camera which often has a macro or specialized lens on it (which calls for a slower, more deliberate shooting style). I've taken to often carrying 2 cameras as it never fails that the wife or daughter want to trade me their P&S for either my macro or telephoto:p

 

Cheers

Chris in VA

 

60X = 9MB/s

80X = 12MB/s

133X = 20MB/s

266X = 40MB/s