Well intentioned law stuck down

[jakieemma]

Sounds like someone puffing up their chest for macho land!!!!

 

Please let me know how you plan to get off the plane. I really want to know.

 

There may or may not be stairs. Long jump to the ground. There may be snow or ice on the ground. Operating one of the slides, doors or getting in the flight crew's face is a FEDERAL offense-interfering with a flight crew.

 

I'm waiting for your grand plan.

 

How hard would it be to quietly tell the steward that you needed to go to the hospital?...chest pain, dizzines, syncope, touble breathing....

I see people do it all the time to get out of jail, out of the cold, out of a DUI...why couldnt you do it to get off a plane???

Take a short ambulance ride to the ER, sign out AMA, and you are on your way. If you didnt check any bags, even better.

 

Not condoning it, it is dirty pool, but it could easily be done....

[greatam]

How hard would it be to quietly tell the steward that you needed to go to the hospital?...chest pain, dizzines, syncope, touble breathing....

I see people do it all the time to get out of jail, out of the cold, out of a DUI...why couldnt you do it to get off a plane???

Take a short ambulance ride to the ER, sign out AMA, and you are on your way. If you didnt check any bags, even better.

 

Not condoning it, it is dirty pool, but it could easily be done....

 

Again, in a ground stop situation-NOTHING is SUPPOSED to move. No stairs, no vehicles, no people walking, nothing. I don't have any idea what would happen if there was a true emergency. EMT's/Paramedics would probably have to be called. Maybe you could get off the plane, maybe not. But that would only be one or two people, not the whole plane.

 

Most anything is possible. Probable, NO.

[jakieemma]

Again, in a ground stop situation-NOTHING is SUPPOSED to move. No stairs, no vehicles, no people walking, nothing. I don't have any idea what would happen if there was a true emergency. EMT's/Paramedics would probably have to be called. Maybe you could get off the plane, maybe not. But that would only be one or two people, not the whole plane.

 

Most anything is possible. Probable, NO.

 

I agree...if I were to use the medical card, I would get off the plane and that would be it. That would be enough for me....

It would work, it may take some time, but it WILL work...I'm sure of it....happens all the time.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

How quickly we forget American Airlines flight 1348.

 

For those who dont know this flight was diverted to Austin because of a thunderstorm. No problem with that. But 1 hour turned into 2 then 3 then 10! Thats right 10 hours stuck on a plane with no potty, no food, no water.

 

Weather in Austin was such that airplanes were taking off left and right, but not American 1348. Nope. It just sat there. Stale air. People without their meds. Nothing to eat or drink. No way to relieve themselves.

 

American thought it better to keep people hostage on the plane instead of pulling up to a gate and letting the people off.

 

NO GROUND STOP. NO SNOW. NO EXCUSE.

 

Anyone??

[greatam]

How quickly we forget American Airlines flight 1348.

 

For those who dont know this flight was diverted to Austin because of a thunderstorm. No problem with that. But 1 hour turned into 2 then 3 then 10! Thats right 10 hours stuck on a plane with no potty' date=' no food, no water.

 

Weather in Austin was such that airplanes were taking off left and right, but not American 1348. Nope. It just sat there. Stale air. People without their meds. Nothing to eat or drink. No way to relieve themselves.

 

American thought it better to keep people hostage on the plane instead of pulling up to a gate and letting the people off.

 

NO GROUND STOP. NO SNOW. NO EXCUSE.

 

Anyone??[/quote']

 

Why do you continue to pick apart ISOLATED incidents??? Sure, OCCASIONALLY something happens. People are horribly inconvenienced. Things could be done better.

 

But the incidents are few and far between. Just like the TACA incident Sunday. All other planes diverted to Ontario had no problems. The TACA flight did-why specifically??? No one knows for sure-but the biggest problem was no way to clear the people on the plane for immigration and customs.

 

Same thing with the AA flight-why it happened??? Anyone's guess. Should it have happened??? Probably not. But again, you are picking VERY isolated incidents. If people were held hostage on runways every day of the year or even weekly, I agree something DRASTIC would need to be done. But one incident for 1000's of flights every six months seems like a fairly reasonable amount of glitches. Your personal chances of being impacted, due to the low percentage of incidents, is generally slim and none.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Why do you continue to pick apart ISOLATED incidents??? Sure, OCCASIONALLY something happens. People are horribly inconvenienced. Things could be done better.

 

But the incidents are few and far between. Just like the TACA incident Sunday. All other planes diverted to Ontario had no problems. The TACA flight did-why specifically??? No one knows for sure-but the biggest problem was no way to clear the people on the plane for immigration and customs.

 

Same thing with the AA flight-why it happened??? Anyone's guess. Should it have happened??? Probably not. But again, you are picking VERY isolated incidents. If people were held hostage on runways every day of the year or even weekly, I agree something DRASTIC would need to be done. But one incident for 1000's of flights every six months seems like a fairly reasonable amount of glitches. Your personal chances of being impacted, due to the low percentage of incidents, is generally slim and none.

 

Why? Because a company that has been in business as long as AA should know how to handle such situations. I keep hearing about this "plan" in case something occurs. But in this case it wasn't done.

 

It is quite obvious AA didn't want to foot the bill for this delay and in turn held people against their will for 10 hours in subhuman conditions. I wasn't even on that plane I am mad as heck this would happen.

 

You keep bringing up ground stops and adverse weather conditions as the reason why. My point was that in this case none existed in Austin that dayl and AA still screwed it up.

 

I can only hope you are never in that situation then you might change your mind.

 

I realize that AA helps keep you in business but they aren't as perfect as you make them out to be.

 

You don't think I could do any better so lets hear how you would have handled this situation.

 

People need to know this stuff happens and that they have rights!

 

I will not change my mind on that.

 

I find it hard to believe its perfectly ok for airlines to do this to their passengers with nothing more than....oops we messed up sorry.

[6rugrats]

I agree...if I were to use the medical card, I would get off the plane and that would be it. That would be enough for me....

It would work, it may take some time, but it WILL work...I'm sure of it....happens all the time.

 

I'm really curious to hear when this has happened. Can you please reference one time where someone was able to bypass customs, immigration, security, etc., and just walk off a plane, by faking a medical condition?

 

Doesn't count if you heard a story about someone who did from your chiropractor. No anecdotal evidence; facts only please. Should be easy for you to name some reputable sources if, as in your own words, "it... happens all the time."

[kenish]

I've been lurking this thread and there's some wrong information and misconceptions.

 

There was never a ground stop at LAX or ONT. LAX was taking arrivals as the visibility permitted. The arrival *rate* was greatly reduced so flights had to divert. The TACA flight circled the Salton Sea area for about 1 hour, presumably waiting for a chance to land at LAX. They probably had to divert to ONT when they hit their reserve fuel requirement. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/LRC670/history/20081201/0150Z/MSLP/KONT (click on the map for an enlarged version)

 

On the ground at ONT there was still a chance of continuing to LAX. If they got a clearance they would have to be in the air quickly before visibility at LAX worsened or their ATC clearance went void. If the clearance voided, there would be a several hour wait since TACA would go to the "back of the line" for a new clearance. So unloading the plane would be a bad idea. Up til now, TACA did everything right IMO.

 

A key piece of the story is TACA arrived about an hour after a non-diverted, scheduled Aeromexico flight into ONT. Contrary to comments on this thread, ONT has an international arrivals terminal. It is very large to accomodate traffic that never materialized. Another AM flight and another TACA flight were also diverted to ONT. I have not heard of any problems or issues with these 2 other flights; the passengers were accomodated in some way (on the planes or in the terminal).

 

When the crew duty hours expired is when things started falling apart. The crew walked off the aircraft (documented by a passenger's cell phone video). Although their hours had expired, this probably violated another reg that requires 1 cabin crew for every 50 passengers. Airport ops had to take over. They suggested deplaning to TACA who did not respond. Passengers could have been deplaned into the sterile area of the intl arrivals terminal. According to Customs and Immigration, staff that was there for the scheduled AM arrival could have stuck around or been called back if TACA wanted to bus pax to LAX. But they were never called.

 

Food and water were brought in by airport ops and city firemen.

 

My sources of info are the LA Times and LA news stations. IMO, TACA threw in the towel and left passengers to fend for themselves. Their irrops plan was bad (what airline's isn't?).

 

So what do I suggest? TACA's station manager at LAX should have made sure the passengers were taken care of, either by deplaning at ONT and staying in the arrivals area or arranging for C&I clearance and a bus ride to LAX for passengers who needed it. Instead of flying a crew from El Salvador, there was presumably a crew at LAX that would have flown the turnaround back to San Salvador. They could have been bused to ONT and flown the passengers to LAX about 3-5 hours sooner.

 

Hope these facts clear some things up....I've tried to keep them distinct from my assumptions and opinions. Please keep any flames limited to 1" high! :)

[6rugrats]

Why? Because a company that has been in business as long as AA should know how to handle such situations. I keep hearing about this "plan" in case something occurs. But in this case it wasn't done.

 

It is quite obvious AA didn't want to foot the bill for this delay and in turn held people against their will for 10 hours in subhuman conditions. I wasn't even on that plane I am mad as heck this would happen.

 

You keep bringing up ground stops and adverse weather conditions as the reason why. My point was that in this case none existed in Austin that dayl and AA still screwed it up.

 

I can only hope you are never in that situation then you might change your mind.

 

I realize that AA helps keep you in business but they aren't as perfect as you make them out to be.

 

You don't think I could do any better so lets hear how you would have handled this situation.

 

People need to know this stuff happens and that they have rights!

 

I will not change my mind on that.

 

I find it hard to believe its perfectly ok for airlines to do this to their passengers with nothing more than....oops we messed up sorry.

 

Ron- You reference AA Flight 1348; I have bolded your statement that weather conditions did not contribute to this stop in Austin. This flight left SFO an hour late because of mechanical problems, and then was one of 85 AA flights diverted from DFW because of the storms in Texas that day.

 

I don't know what kind of "bill" AA would have had to foot. Yes, in that situation, as it was a domestic flight, I certainly think AA should have let the passengers off and into the terminal. What would that have cost them? I don't think anyone would state AA handled this correctly.

 

These posts make it sound as if these situations happen everyday and they just don't.

[jakieemma]

I'm really curious to hear when this has happened. Can you please reference one time where someone was able to bypass customs, immigration, security, etc., and just walk off a plane, by faking a medical condition?

 

Doesn't count if you heard a story about someone who did from your chiropractor. No anecdotal evidence; facts only please. Should be easy for you to name some reputable sources if, as in your own words, "it... happens all the time."

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakieemma

I agree...if I were to use the medical card, I would get off the plane and that would be it. That would be enough for me....

It would work, it may take some time, but it WILL work...I'm sure of it....happens all the time.

 

Yes, people play the "medical problem card" all the time. They do it to get out of staying in a city jail, to get out of sobriety tests, to fake an illness at work, some homeless do it to get off the cold street..etc.

 

6 posts before yours I wrote:

How hard would it be to quietly tell the steward that you needed to go to the hospital?...chest pain, dizzines, syncope, touble breathing....

I see people do it all the time to get out of jail, out of the cold, out of a DUI...why couldnt you do it to get off a plane???

Take a short ambulance ride to the ER, sign out AMA, and you are on your way. If you didnt check any bags, even better.

 

Not condoning it, it is dirty pool, but it could easily be done....

 

Can you show me where I claimed..."someone was able to bypass customs, immigration, security, etc., and just walk off a plane, by faking a medical condition"

 

All I did was ask a question... try reading the post before you respond.

 

I have responded to hundreds of calls at a major iternational airport and I can't see a single scenario where I wouldnt HAVE to transport someone from a plane claiming chest pain or another serious medical condition. By law I would have to transport them, and by law the airline would HAVE to call us. It may take a little longer to get to a plane during a snow storm, but we WOULD get there...