General Immersion Thread (merged)

[cruisinfever]

I got a call from RC this week telling us that our cruise on Vision of the Seas in January will be a Latin Immersion cruise. All entertainment will be in Spanish and there will be English interpreters available. I love to experience other cultures but I cannot speak Spanish and don't think I would enjoy an entire week of not knowing what is going on or not able to enjoy the entertainment.

 

I don't think you can criticize anyone for not wanting to experience this type of cruise. I think this thread is much too opinionated and it is the individual's preference. I would have liked the option of knowing this was a Latin Immersion cruise before I booked it. Now I may loose my airfare.

[temple1]

I am sure the changes are in response to economic realities and probably a response to customer surveys. Americans and Canadians are not the only ones filling out those forms at the end of a cruise.

 

I would guess the cruise line would accomodate English speaking passenges with special menus and cruise compasses. On a recent Majesty sailing I noticed they did all the announcements in multiple languages. Probably something they do when the demographics on board call for it. Did it upset me? did I feel like I was being short changed because they recognized other cultures? Not a bit. If the passenger mix were reversed - why would I be offended if they chose Mandarin as the first language in announcements?

 

For the person mentioning baby octopus on the buffet - I've seen that at my local Chinese (say Chinese/American) restaurant.

 

I think it would be a great idea if RCCL would recognize the local cultures of the countries we visit. Even in a Caribbean cruise it would be nice if they offered foods on the menu representative of the area. And I don't mean taco salad. Frequently there is not enough port time to actually try local foods or the American based chains have taken over the space in close proximity to the cruise ships enticing us with their fresh cheeseburgers and draft beer. ;)

 

If I go to Europe I expect to encounter Europeans :eek: and to pay in euros. Same if I cruise out of Barcelona, Italy, Brazil, etc. I am the foreigner in those ports.

 

I would find the immersion cruises very interesting. I've read a lot of interesting reviews on the various ship reviews of what it is like to cruise with majority German or other vactioners. Some good some bad things. But I think Americans have been isolated from other cultures for much too long. This is a great opportunity to learn a little more about the cultures with the comfort of American style cabins to escape to.

 

I am not concerned about the language of my table mates. What a terrific opportunity to learn about other people and their culture to actually dine with them and if they have any English skills to talk to them about their home and family. But as another poster mentioned - RCCL does a great job of putting like cultures together.

[EmJakeBubbie]

...

Be sure that you don't switch your fork to your right hand after you cut your meat, they absolutely hate it when Americans do that.

Is this true? to use the fork with right hand is offensive????? (I remember in 5th grade studying cultural habits ..learned basics of what not to do in foreign ports, but those lessons were longer ago than I can count and whoever thought back in the 1950's that I'd be a world traveler in 2008 (or that we'd ever live to see 2008 on the calendar *LOL*) Back to the fork 'n knife. When in Europe, we do the leftie thing (no problem for DH as he's a leftie ..for me, not so easy), but I've prevailed and find that once back on native soil, I prefer the leftie style and get nothing but glares from fellow diners (nevermind What me-mum has to say about that! LOL). Is right hand fork use offensive to Europeans et al???????

re: Immersion. I don't know what I don't know- I'm completely farblongjid!:confused:

[nikkicattrell]

). Is right hand fork use offensive to Europeans et al???????

:confused:

 

Generally its more relaxed in Europe in comparison to home, but in England its a big no no. Unless you are very left handed and then its sort of acceptable as long as you have your knife in the other hand.

 

Other oddities are: you should not hold your knife like a pen, but under your hand, and nothing is "scooped" onto the fork, its stabbed and squished on the back of it. You should always use a dessert fork and spoon for your pudding and sip your soup off the spoon, don't put the spoon in your mouth and never tip your bowl of soup to get more out. :D

[madforcruising]

Is this true? to use the fork with right hand is offensive????? (I remember in 5th grade studying cultural habits ..learned basics of what not to do in foreign ports' date=' but those lessons were longer ago than I can count and whoever thought back in the 1950's that I'd be a world traveler in 2008 (or that we'd ever live to see 2008 on the calendar *LOL*) Back to the fork 'n knife. When in Europe, we do the leftie thing (no problem for DH as he's a leftie ..for me, not so easy), but I've prevailed and find that once back on native soil, I prefer the leftie style and get nothing but glares from fellow diners (nevermind What me-mum has to say about that! LOL). Is right hand fork use offensive to Europeans et al???????

re: Immersion. I don't know what I don't know- I'm completely farblongjid!:confused:[/quote']

 

Being from a European Country I wouldn´t at all rate this as offensive. Have I recognized the difference? yes of course but I wouldn´t take offense and wouldn´t know why I should. And having said this I keep the fork in my left hand and the knife in my right hand in the US, so hope this won´t offend anyone over there;)

[madforcruising]

Generally its more relaxed in Europe in comparison to home, but in England its a big no no. Unless you are very left handed and then its sort of acceptable as long as you have your knife in the other hand.

 

Other oddities are: you should not hold your knife like a pen, but under your hand, and nothing is "scooped" onto the fork, its stabbed and squished on the back of it. You should always use a dessert fork and spoon for your pudding and sip your soup off the spoon, don't put the spoon in your mouth and never tip your bowl of soup to get more out. :D

 

Guess I´m guilty of some boo boo´s:o

[nikkicattrell]

Guess I´m guilty of some boo boo´s:o

 

LOL doesn't bother me personally that much what other people do, just very English table manners! My German colleagues think its very funny watching me squish peas on my fork too.

[cruisePRN]

I got a call from RC this week telling us that our cruise on Vision of the Seas in January will be a Latin Immersion cruise. All entertainment will be in Spanish and there will be English interpreters available. I love to experience other cultures but I cannot speak Spanish and don't think I would enjoy an entire week of not knowing what is going on or not able to enjoy the entertainment.

 

I don't think you can criticize anyone for not wanting to experience this type of cruise. I think this thread is much too opinionated and it is the individual's preference. I would have liked the option of knowing this was a Latin Immersion cruise before I booked it. Now I may loose my airfare.

I would ask RCL if they care to pay the change to another date and choose another cruise that isn't geared to a language I don't understand. If RCL changes my Asian cruise i will request to be allowed to switch to a different cruise without loosing any money.

[SF]

I would ask RCL if they care to pay the change to another date and choose another cruise that isn't geared to a language I don't understand. If RCL changes my Asian cruise i will request to be allowed to switch to a different cruise without loosing any money.

 

 

That's a good idea but what about those people who already purchased air and insurance? It's hard to find a cruise that you want to do and have the exact dates match. Sometimes the insurance companies will let you switch your booking and other times it won't. A lot of people are going to lose money if that happens with their "no refundable deposits." Your idea is a good suggestion for those able to drive to the port. We plan on doing exactly what you said if they change our two Caribbean Holiday Cruises as we have no "non-refundable" deposits on any of those.

[cruisePRN]

That's a good idea but what about those people who already purchased air and insurance? It's hard to find a cruise that you want to do and have the exact dates match. Sometimes the insurance companies will let you switch your booking and other times it won't. A lot of people are going to lose money if that happens with their "no refundable deposits." Your idea is a good suggestion for those able to drive to the port. We plan on doing exactly what you said if they change our two Caribbean Holiday Cruises as we have no "non-refundable" deposits on any of those.

 

It's about $50-$100 to change an airline ticket, that's what I was thinking. If RCL really has sympathy for their passenger they will reimburse the customer for this fee or perhaps give an OBC after receiving proof of a change.

[ddean52]

Hello. i feel everyone's pain, our june 27th jewl of the seas cruise has been has also been (last minute) turned into a Scandinavian" immersion cruise"...and please dont even start with anit-euro crap. i love europe and and its many cultures...we have spent and will continue to spend summers there.......the point in rcl should have billed the cruise as such,..........the reason im posting is to suggest everyone go outside, take a deep breath and give this thread a break...:cool: just a thought. have a great weekend!!!!

[Yvie]

A lot of people are missing the point of this discussion. The point is if you are going to change the product you offer, then don't change it at the last minute. Be upfront about it and market it as such. What is last minute? In my case, I booked in April of 2007 for a July 2008 cruise. I was notified after final payment was made, after my insurance was bought, after my flights were long booked. The ship wasn't even built at the time I booked the cruise. I did not know where it's "home port" would be, to the best of my knowledge it would sail the caribbean and cruise out of Southampton in the summer. So to everyone who says we should have known better, how? Nowhere on the website, nobody at Crown & Anchor who booked it for me, nor anywhere else did it say the ship would be run by RCCL-UK (I had never heard of them), or it's "homeport" would be Southampton, or it would be a "British Immersion" cruise, or currency onboard would be in euros. I thoroughly research my trips before traveling. I talked to people who cruised RCCL in the mediterranean before, did research on cruise critic and the internet to get as much information as possible before booking this cruise. I am not cancelling my cruise, I just would have liked to have known all this beforehand. Just as I planned for my private shore excursions to be more costly, I would have liked to have been able to factor in the increased cost onboard if the currency is in euros. This is a two week cruise, and between drinks, photographs, shore excursions, specialty restaurants, internet and other onboard costs, we could spend a few thousand dollars. So if our seapass balance is 3,000 euros we would be paying $1500 more. Not small change. So to those of you who have said "what did you expect?" my answer is I expected the product to be what it was in the past up until this point unless I am told otherwise.

[CruzinCruzan]

Well said Yvie!

[truffles2]

A lot of people are missing the point of this discussion. The point is if you are going to change the product you offer, then don't change it at the last minute. Be upfront about it and market it as such. What is last minute? In my case, I booked in April of 2007 for a July 2008 cruise. I was notified after final payment was made, after my insurance was bought, after my flights were long booked. The ship wasn't even built at the time I booked the cruise. I did not know where it's "home port" would be, to the best of my knowledge it would sail the caribbean and cruise out of Southampton in the summer. So to everyone who says we should have known better, how? Nowhere on the website, nobody at Crown & Anchor who booked it for me, nor anywhere else did it say the ship would be run by RCCL-UK (I had never heard of them), or it's "homeport" would be Southampton, or it would be a "British Immersion" cruise, or currency onboard would be in euros. I thoroughly research my trips before traveling. I talked to people who cruised RCCL in the mediterranean before, did research on cruise critic and the internet to get as much information as possible before booking this cruise. I am not cancelling my cruise, I just would have liked to have known all this beforehand. Just as I planned for my private shore excursions to be more costly, I would have liked to have been able to factor in the increased cost onboard if the currency is in euros. This is a two week cruise, and between drinks, photographs, shore excursions, specialty restaurants, internet and other onboard costs, we could spend a few thousand dollars. So if our seapass balance is 3,000 euros we would be paying $1500 more. Not small change. So to those of you who have said "what did you expect?" my answer is I expected the product to be what it was in the past up until this point unless I am told otherwise.

 

How did you learn that the ship would be run by RCI-UK? That is the first I have heard of that being the case. Brilliance also falls into that category and is a super ship (IMHO).

[Yvie]

How did you learn that the ship would be run by RCI-UK? That is the first I have heard of that being the case. Brilliance also falls into that category and is a super ship (IMHO).

I was informed by a fellow poster on a similar thread of that "fact" and that I should have known about it.

[kingsgirl]

It is a chip butty and it consists of hot chips (french fries) in a bun, and in Australia we put vinegar or tomato sauce (ketchup) on top of the chips..!!

 

I wouldn't probably eat a french fry sandwich, but here in Canada we also do french fries with vinegar and ketchup. I noticed in the US vinegar was never available :( Cidar vinegar or brown vinegar is even better!

[scotsman]

RCI will not be so stupid to do a straight conversion something like a cocktail that cost $6 will now cost 6 Euro :eek:

When we fly Continental to the states a drink is $5 or £2.50p

 

We are on the Independence 14 June one of our excursions was priced in $ when I followed the booking procedure at the checkout the price was showing in dollars as $160 then when i went to pay it was converted at todays rate and came in at £82.28p.

 

Yvie

Have you been informed that you will be paying in Euro ?

Our cruise docs say USDollars

 

I cant really understand the outrage here.

[leoandhugh]

Why, on a so-called British Immersion would you pay in Euros? GB does not use Euros; they still use Pound Sterling. Sounds like misinfo here somewhere.

[scotsman]

I wish it was British Pounds :D

 

One thing I did enjoy when we were on the Independence 30th April for the naming ceremony was every cabin has a kettle,t bags,instant coffee etc.

In the Windjammer in the morning you had real back bacon plus that over processed stuff that passes for bacon, they also do real sausages as well.

Vive la Difference

[truffles2]

I was informed by a fellow poster on a similar thread of that "fact" and that I should have known about it.

 

I guess I missed it too:confused: and I wonder how "fellow poster" found out (just curious).

[Ephraim]

...Now I may loose my airfare.

 

Have you discussed this with RCL? They should at least offer to pay the change fee if you want to change, since the reason for the change is their change. They should have warned people before final payment and offered to pay the change fees.

 

As for the whole idea of immersion cruises, this is a publicly traded corporation that needs to make a profit and return value to the shareholders. If the ships aren't going out full they have an obligation to fill them and to fill them at the highest price possible.

 

I've said it before, in many threads on CC. The American market has become a lower price market, especially considering the low value of the US dollar. None of the cruiselines can fix that, it's beyond them. But there are a number of changes happening in the market and you just can't ignore them. Less and less English speaking employees because salaries have decreased because of the low US dollar. The cruiselines are going to further and poorer countries looking for employees and taking on less experienced personel. The salaries were low and now considering the value of the US dollar are even lower.

 

Take for example a Canadian working on the ship. His/Her salary has gone down in Canadian dollars had decreased significantly in just the last year. For example if they were paid USD$1000 a month (not a real salary, but just a neutral example) last year, that was CAD$1087.50. Today that is CAD$986.00. That's over a 10% decrease in salary in Canadian dollars.

 

For a European, last year that was €741.01 and today that is €634.40 a decrease of just under 17%. This isn't theoretical, this is reality. The number of native English speaking personel is decreasing unless the cruiselines start to increase salaries. The reality is that cruise prices must increase if you want the same level of service to continue but with a US recession they just can't significantly increase the prices. My guess (and it's strictly a guess) this is a significant change in order to solve the problem. Less Americans are travelling and the rooms must be sold. Those who cruise will just have to adapt to the new reality. The question is... how long will the other cruiselines hold out before their do it.... not if they will do it.

[Donna_In_India]

The Indian headwaiter (or maitre d'?) in Portobello's on the Serenade told us that the cruise after ours - which ended last Saturday - was going to have over 500 Indians on it! And vegetarians at that. So, much of the food was going to be geared towards them. I really think that is awful - especially if RCI does not notify other passengers! There is no way I would have wanted to be on that cruise! I am waiting to see if it was true and get the reviews from that cruise.

 

Our 2 weeks cruise had mostly foreigners on it - including a large group of Germans but nothing that affected food. I think there were over 40 nationalities represented.

[Donna_In_India]

This has also caused us not to book an RCI cruise out of Asia....

[SF]

Totally agree with Yvie. Well put.:)

 

 

If RCCL wanted to introduce "immersion cruises" that's fine but it's how they did it and how they kept it "secret" until after final payment. I agree with one of the above posters they knew about it probably for months. It's not fair to those who have paid final payment, made airline and hotel reservations, took out travel insurance etc....and even for those that haven't made final payment many have already left deposits too. For those that have said "I don't see a problem with an "immersion cruise" that's fine if that happens to be what you want but there are others out there who wouldn't enjoy it and they should not have to be stuck eating the cost of non-refundable deposits should they decide not to go. Immersion Cruises can be a good thing and there are many who would like to try one but this should have been introduced in a proper manor when the new itineraries for the ships came out. Just like they plan and build ships years out they know where the market and economy is heading. Just like they had a problem with the fuel surcharge for those that had already left deposits or paid in full I personally think they are going to have another problem with very upset people who will either be out money because they don't want to go or very upset once on board because they will feel like they had no choice if RCCL doesn't compensate them and give them the opportunity to cancel with no penalties. Personally, yes they are in business to make money we all under stand that and don't dispute the fact but in my opinion (remember it's just my opinion)this isn't the way.

[southerngoose]

Just a bit of perspective here. Before my first cruise, which was a cruise to the Med, I had read Cruise Critic and expected comedians, horse races, trivia games etc. Once on the cruise, I learned that "Europeans don't like these things" and none would be offered! The cruise had 50-60% Spanish speaking. Since we were taking tours at every port (there were only 1-2 full sea days out of a 12 day cruise), the missing activities weren't a big deal, but I was disappointed that the "fun" things wouldn't be offered - particularly after hearing how fun these activities were. There were activities that were offered in English and in Spanish - not a big deal to me, but I now realize that that meant that less variety was offered since the activities had to be done twice (there is only x many staff members to do the activities and only so many venues available). The Spanish like to eat dinner at 9pm or later. So they did the shows at 8:30pm for first seating and 10:30pm for second seating. The "late" activity started very late (11:30p?). We missed many activities since they started so late in the evening - but it didn't ruin the vacation due to the number of ports. It was a "good" cruise...but only for the ports. The ship experience - truly "hotel on water", very little enjoyment from the ship itself, just the unpack once experience. The cruise director, tour manager etc were all European...not a problem, just a fact.

 

For my second cruise, I really needed a relaxing break. I had been working long hours with many foreigners and frankly, I wanted to just vacation "American style" and enjoy the ship. So I schedule a transatlantic cruise from Galveston to Barcelona - 13 days, 3 ports. Not knowing what I'd receive, I prepared myself to stay in my room the entire time, surfacing only to eat and let them clean the room. Boy was I pleasantly surprised! First, the Cruise Director and Activities manager were AMERICAN! I didn't know those guys existed! They had the days packed with trivia games (and trivia marathon!), scavenger hunts, crafts etc. The trivia/name that tune seemed to be American-centric with a few British or other references (I'm not sure that all of those tv themes were shows that were in Europe and I know from previous experience in Europe that American shows often had different theme songs when they were showed in Europe). We also had the tv show "Voyager Live"...approx 15-20 mins each day with the Cruise director telling you what is going on, interviewing different people like the guest lecturers, the head chef, the engineer etc. The Cruise Director used this time to discuss comments. He never told us the demographics but I'm guessing that at least 50% of the ship were retired Americans (55+), maybe another 10-20% were non-retired Americans and the final 30-40% were Spanish, British, Canadian, German with a few Dutch people. There were complaints that the shows were 6:30pm for second seating (show before dinner) and 8:30pm for first seating (show after dinner). The explanation was - the ship was full of people who don't stay up late. If the show for second seating was at 10:30pm, the parades, love and marriage show etc wouldn't start unil 11:45pm. The cruise director explained that if he did an activity at 11:45pm...he'd be doing the activity with 4 other passengers (the rest of us would be asleep). I admit that lots of people felt "rushed" to get to the 6:30pm show (particularly on formal night) - activities ran until 5:30-6pm. But for me, 6:30pm was perfect...I went to the show, ran to the Windjammer for a bit of food, then relaxed in the room. If I liked the 10:30 activity, I went, otherwise I went to sleep early. My perfect vacation! The shows included comedians - only in English, Love and Marriage - only in English, Kareoke Superstar - in English, but in particular - Southern drawl (very funny...but not sure that Europeans could fully appreciate the humor, unless they had lived in the south).

 

The most enlightening episode of Voyager Live (also,only in English) was the interview with the next cruise director (the one who would take over in Barcelona to work the Med cruises). The next one was a Spanish speaking guy (fluent in English) who worked the Med and South American cruises. They discussed the differences between the "American" cruise, the "Med" cruise and the "South American" cruises.

 

1. The cruises out of Galveston (which attract people from Texas/Louisiana) have lots of Country Western music. That changes to a more latin beat for cruises out of Barcelona and South America.

 

2. The "theme" nights on the "American" cruises were 50's sock hop, 70's disco, Country Western night. On the Med cruise, they were planning some sort of "Music through the decades" night that would have some 50's, 70's etc.

 

3. The second seating show would be after dinner - like 10:30pm because Spanish people eat so late Apparently, in South America - they eat EVEN LATER than the Spanish folks and the "late night" activity is VERY late (I think this could mean midnight or later!)

 

4. American cruises include comedians. European/South American cruises have more "visual" acts (dancers, illusionists, puppets, performance).

 

5. Show introductions on my cruise was only in English. On the European cruises, they do them in 4 languages.

 

I personally don't think I have objections to "immersion" cruises - if disclosed in advance! I even put that on the survey...I want the cruises labeled with which culture they will be in. For a heavy, port intensive cruisewhere I want a "floating hotel"...no problem, I'll take an immersion cruise and bring my American DVDs, American crafts and will entertain myself. For the "right" price, I'll entertain myself and skip the shows/games. But if I need a "fun getaway" and don't want to go to the ports, I want the "American" cruise with games like "Bozo's grand prize game" (admittedly a stupid 5 minute game, but it has a nostalgia feel that was beyond the actual moment of entertainment). For my getaway - I want them to provide the fun entertainment! Otherwise, I'd just stay home and get takeout for every meal (lots cheaper than a cruise!). If I want to "getaway" in another culture...I'll just do a land tour (and I've done many...Asia, Australia, and all of Western Europe and Canada - I've seen more of the "world" than I've seen of the US!). I enjoy learning other languages and practicing, but only when I'm "in the mood"...this time around I was relieved to be on my English only vacation.

 

At this point, I am very currency sensitive...so one factor in choosing a Royal Caribbean cruise is the fact that everything is in American dollars...again, a bit of upfront disclosure is necessary! If I want to pay in Euro, pounds etc, I'll take that cruise. But right now, I need to pay in $$$ or it becomes unaffordable.

 

I guess my point is....they've always been doing a bland version of immersion, they just didn't tell you. One party or another felt a bit "un-catered to" and no one was fully happy (I know the Spanish folks on my Med cruise were unhappy and were quite vocal about it - leading to many "adjustments"). I'd almost prefer that they just be upfront "We're doing this to Spanish taste...if you don't like it, choose another itinerary". I then can point my $$$ to the best vacation for me, at that moment. No hard feelings!