Sweatships: Working on Board Cruise Ships

[SoFLCruiser]

many of the employee's on the ship that i've come in contact with have been working in the cruise ship industry for 15+ yrs...

they must like something!!!

 

 

and don't forget one thread where people mentioned that a lot of the employees have maids living in their homes.

 

many stories, many theories, but one thing we can be sure of...

many of these people have chosen to be a cruise employee for many, many years. :)

[dot73]

Well said, Madra. I cruise solo and love to chat with the crew. They love to talk about their countries and their families. If you take the time to listen to them, you will learn more about geography and other cultures than you ever did in school. Except for some rude twits at the purser's and excursion desks (which are the good paying positions), I have had excellent service on all my cruises. Show a little respect and understanding, and the crew will treat you royally.

[AllieInMD]

You might want to read the post above and below your post. You see it as some sort of forced servitude - when that's just not true - a crew member has the right to get off the ship at any port - they chose not to. While you may not like their life - it's their choice.

 

You really think the average passenger is going to learn about all the sweatship stuff? Of course not because it ruins the passenger's view of the "cruise being the perfect vacatoin". What industry makes an employee go to counseling because they broke a plate..."because you were distracted that's why you broke the plate"

 

I could tell you lots of other stories about this but last tme I did this a year ago I got thrown off. Read the book I advised.

 

And of course, these people cant get jobs that pay as well in their countries. But it also isn't right to intimidate people into keeping them.

 

It is modern day slave labor not governed by US labor laws.

[PennyAgain]

The world economic downturn has resulted in many cruise ship employees either being sent home early or not having their contracts renewed. It will be interesting to see where else the cruise ships cut back.

[Donray]

http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/2897

 

 

~~~~~~~~~

 

What I found interesting was the fact on how they treat people who come from different countries. The ones who work really hard, are treated the worst.

Sad, isn't it?

 

 

Newspaper of the Communist Party

 

What do you expect from the Communist Party? They want everyone in a Union. They are agaist all non-union working envirornments.

[jlp20]

I have been reading these boards for quite a while. This subject comes up about twice a year, and someone in the media does some type of “story “ about once a year. While I have not read a falsehood in any of these stories, the “whole” truth never seems to be part of the story.

 

1. The cruise industry does not kidnap of “Shanghais” workers. In fact, not only does every cruise line have lists of people waiting for a opening to get a job, people post on these boards looking for info on applying.

2. The industry’s employment practices are not the norm in any respect. You offer some type of service; waiter, doctor, steam plant engineer, dancer etc. The standard offer is travel from your home airport, room, board, medical coverage, uniforms if needed, return travel to your home airport and some type of monetary compensation. IF YOU ACCEPT such an offer, you sign a contract agreeing to do the job for a set period of time.

3. Now the sad fact about any pay check is supply and demand. Every ship has to have a doctor and we all know someone has invested a lot of money and time getting into that profession. As a result there are not lines of unemployed doctors selling oranges. So to attract physicians the pay offered is substantial. On the other hand, working as a drink runner requires a memory as to where someone was sitting and carrying a tray of drinks. As a result there is a line of people wanting that job so the pay is quite low.

4. Since most ships are registered in other countries, they do not come under U.S. labor laws. If you have been reading these boards for any length of time, you know the average steward earns less than $200 a month. I can almost guarantee that I and my neighbors would not agree to this type of contract at that pay. However, if you live in an in second or third world nation with little prospects, $200 is a fortune.

 

People go into the situation with eyes wide open. I have not seen more than four articles or stories where the EMPLOYEE makes the complaint or wrote the story. It seems the story comes from a “travel writer” who cannot come up with anything original or from (sorry, but no other term would describe it) “Bleeding Heart Liberal” who comes to the aide of people who don’t know they have a problem.

[lovesublime]

Thank you for sharing this! now maybe some of these people in this world will see that these people though working long hours do have time for fun too and their accomodations are no worse and better than alot of dorm rooms! Unfortunately we in the United States have had it TOO good for TOO long and want to apply our standards to all countries and jobs. Won't work! These hard workers most of them feel blessed to have a job making what they do when there are sometimes NO opportunities in their countries. Thanks!;)

 

 

What a strange statement. Why shouldn't we have it good? Does that mean just because other nations aren't up to our standards that we should lower ours? Year after year the International Labor Organization and the U.N. publish their productivity report. The United States is #1 in productivity and hours worked time after time-worldwide. None of the Asian countries even made the top 5 in the last report (surprisingly). Why shouldn't we benefit from our hard work. Why is it so "unfortunate" as you put it, that we've had it too good?

[Philip217]

Newspaper of the Communist Party

 

What do you expect from the Communist Party? They want everyone in a Union. They are agaist all non-union working envirornments.

 

Ugh - donray - sorry to burst your bubble, but the cruise lines are unionized. I have worked on 29 different cruise ships for 10 different cruise companies. All of them were unionized ( except Disney).

[Donray]

Ugh - donray - sorry to burst your bubble, but the cruise lines are unionized. I have worked on 29 different cruise ships for 10 different cruise companies. All of them were unionized ( except Disney).

Did not know that. I don’t understand the communist newspaper going after union workers like that.

Tell me what unions from what country these housekeepers and food servers on cruise ships belong to? How much do they pay in dues?

I can find no mention on the internet of any cruise ship personnel belonging to a union. I know it would not be any USA union.

Don’t know what bubble you are talking about. Could you tell me more about the bubble that busted?

[Philip217]

To the best of my knowledge and experience, every mass market cruise line except Disney has signed agreements with international maritime unions to represent crew - and usually officers as well.

 

Typically there are two or three different unions representing two or three dominant nationalities onboard - or two or three different departments onboard (e.g. Marine, Technical, Hotel).

 

These unions negotiate standard working contracts between the cruise line and it's onboard employees.

 

For example, most tipped employees on ships agree to a monthly contract that pays them a salary between US$30 and US$70 per month. The union typically charges monthly dues of US$20 to US$30 per month. The tipped crew obviously depend on tips to make up most of their earnings. Most contracts also have a guaranteed minimum salary (guaranteed by the cruise company). This guarantee kicks in when the ship has a dry dock - or a cruise with many Australians or Brits - where the tip pool falls below a certain guaranteed minimum number. In that case, the cruise line makes up the difference in earnings.

 

By the way, "Communist" China - where I live - has no unions.

[cruisinoct]

We talked to our waiter for a long time after our last dinner service. He is from the Philipines and told us he makes far more working on the ship than he would at home, and that he saves most of his money so that his children will have a better life and be able to go to school. He says he does miss them being gone for 6 months but they are older and understand why he is away. He told us that this will be the first year in 5 years that he will be home for Christmas becuase his 2 months off are December and January. I'm sure thier living conditions are cramped, but no one is forcing them to work on these ships and they make far more than they would at home.

 

.

[critterchick]

No Americans are to be found......they don't hire Americans for below decks because of the minimum wage and work laws we all fall under.

 

In general' date=' the cruise ships are not subject to US minimum wage and work laws - Other than NCLA, they all fly foreign flags and are subject to the labor laws of those nations. So an American could work on a cruise ship, but by and large do not because we can make more money here.

 

The only ships where Americans work below decks are those that ply the waters of Hawaii......and they are mostly flops. Americans aren't accustomed to hard work and being subservient.......

Americans are plenty used to hard work, thank you. We just don't do the heavy lifting.:)

[A & R]

The original post seems to imply there is a racial element here. That is not the case.

 

I left school in 1957 aged 15yrs old and joined the British Merchant Navy ( I am white English ) the conditions described seem no worse, if not better, than I experienced, with Cunard, Orient Line, Union Castle Line and various "tramp steamers" as a junior crew member.

 

On the old Queen Elizabeth on the mail run into New York we were 12 to a cabin, up in the foc'stle next to the chain locker. Subject to pseudo military discipline, we were not allowed to speak to passengers unless spoken to.

 

As a young lad from a modest working class back ground however, the six years I did at sea gave me an opportunity to broaden my horizons that my family could never have afforded.

 

I look back with fond memories of those days, and have never felt any resentment for having being "lower than the ship's cat", in the eye's of many of the snobs who sailed on the Mailboats in those days.

 

As they say "It made a man out of me" and instilled a work ethic and desire to improve my lot in life.

 

In my experince now as a passenger, crew are treated with much more dignity and respect than ever they were in my time. They are also well paid by the standards of their own countries economies. Why else would they do the job?

[ovccruiser]

On our last cruise in September, we were talking to our wine waitress and discussed money. She was earning about £50 ($90) per month. On top of this was her tips and the on board gratuity that Cunard and most other cruise lines charge. Now do the math as you Americans like to say:D there are more passengers than crew, so an average of say $12 per day plus say a tip every say 12 days of 10 tables @ $20, maybe more, I don't think these poor staff are treated too badley, considering their food & lodging is probably paid for as well. Ok, its not a high end erner by Western standards, but for someone from poorer countries it is a fortune and they mostly enjoy their work.

[blindrid]

Came across this website which has to do with life aboard a cruise ship and how crew members are treated.

 

Here's one part that really hit me -

 

"The cruise ship industry’s 150,000 employees are confined to cramped, confined spaces on six- to 10-month non-stop contracts. Workers from poor countries of Latin America, Asia and Central/Eastern Europe are largely consigned menial work in ships restaurants, bars, cabins and loading bays. Women are concentrated in non-technical services such as hotel work and catering. These workers are segregated from everyone else and are not permitted to go on the upper decks where passengers reside, except for those who must work with passengers directly.

 

In contrast, managers, officers, technical staff, entertainers, medical staff and engineers come from industrialized countries such as the UK, U.S. and Italy. They have more spacious living conditions, have their own private restaurants, and have access to upper decks and some facilities enjoyed by passengers. Noting that workers from poor nations are servicing passengers who largely come from the white population of the rich industrialized nations"

 

 

And your issue is what??????

[G'ma]

No, I realize they are not held by US work laws, etc.

 

I just feel that it's fair to treat everyone fairly regardless of who employs them or what country.

 

Guess my boyfriend lied to me, huh, about what life can be like on a ship. I wonder what his motive was to make up a story about a girl committing suicide.

 

Lots of people complain about their jobs and working conditions...that's nothing new.

 

People who commit suicide are unstable, malfunctioning human beings who need a good shrink. Suicide is found across all socio-economic levels in human society. It has nothing to do with atmosphere, environment, living conditions, financial status......it has to do with a broken wire in the personality somewhere.

[Rick-cruiser]

Lots of people complain about their jobs and working conditions...that's nothing new.

 

People who commit suicide are unstable' date=' malfunctioning human beings who need a good shrink. Suicide is found across all socio-economic levels in human society. It has nothing to do with atmosphere, environment, living conditions, financial status......it has to do with a broken wire in the personality somewhere.[/quote']

 

 

UT OH.....

[G'ma]

In general, the cruise ships are not subject to US minimum wage and work laws - Other than NCLA, they all fly foreign flags and are subject to the labor laws of those nations. So an American could work on a cruise ship, but by and large do not because we can make more money here.

 

 

Americans are plenty used to hard work, thank you. We just don't do the heavy lifting.:)

 

My son lives on Maui...he's been there 8 years, lives in Lahaina (where many cruise ships drop anchor). He tells of many, many young Americans who come off the American flagged ships and never go back. They try to earn enough money to fly back to the mainland - and home. They all say the same thing; hours are too long, work is drudgery, passengers are a pain in the butt and treat them like servants, etc., etc.

 

He owns a cleaning business that contracts to clean rental condo's and he has hired many of these young people. As soon as they have the money for a ticket, they're gone.

 

You've seen some of these youngsters working at other menial jobs....fast food places, slinging hash at a diner, working in department stores. They couldn't care less for their job, their customers, their coworkers or much of anything else beyond collecting a paycheck.

 

I'm not saying ALL are like this - however, there are way too many who think the world owes them a living. They believe they are entitled to step into a high-paying job without doing much work.

 

There are other vessels that are U.S. flagged; namely those that ply the domestic waterways. If you have ever cruised on one of them, you'd see that those employees onboard are mainly much older than those on cruise ships and have been onboard for many years. They may start at the bottom but can easily work their way up on ships that don't handle 2-3000 passengers-without the drudgery.

[BoPippy]

Blah,Blah,Blah.

we can argue this one like politics and religion.No one wins and we are all entitled to an opinion.

Every job to some degree has this type of structure,but to different degrees.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

you can talk on this topic till the cows come home and never come to a consensus.have fun.

Life is life.

[Mark]

The avoidance of undesirable work or dirty work is not limited to the Americans here in the United States...I have traveled around Europe and was surprised to find those types of jobs such as waiters, wiatresses, maids, housekeeping in Europe are never held by the nationals of the country...and to take it even further...I was told that in Germany at BMW, the cars are made by Turks who are imported to do the manual labor while the Germans manage the place...have also heard that this is common and found in the Middle East where they import many Indians and in Japan where they had imported Chinese and Koreans...so nobody like to do those kinds of jobs regardless of where you are from...:cool:

[AllieInMD]

And sometimes, the poor work hard and get rich. Life is what you make of it - and in most cases - if you are a failure, it's your own fault.

 

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer..

[fun*n*sun]

The first time we were in the Dominican Republic we were talking to a family who had a home that we would consider very primitive, no running water, air conditioning, modern bathroom or kitchen facilities. They considered their life very comfortable and felt blessed to have what they had. They were comparing thier lot to that of the Haitians who they considered poor and unfortunate. The Haitians came across the border to get jobs in the sugar cane fields and in the tourism industry in the Dominican Republic because there was no work in Haiti.

 

It's a matter of perspective and expectations. The very rich people of years past lived in conditions far worse than we can really comprehend today and lived happy and fufilling lives. That doesn't mean people should be treated badly, but it seems disrespectful to me to assume that the workers on these ships aren't bright enough to know what is best for them in their own lives and families.

[Sandytoes]

We can't do much about the economic realities of the market system, or the inequalities it creates, but we can ensure we treat all staff members we encounter with respect, we don't stiff them when it comes to tips, and we make sure that we give them the disgnity they deserve, whether they work in a bar, in the laundary or on the bridge.

Thanks Madra!

That's exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

So many times pax complain about the crew, he didn't do this, she didn't do that, etc, etc. Like they're way above them. :rolleyes:

I have overheard pax demanding items, clean the table, carry my coffee, take this away, without a simple please or Thank you.

We always make it a point to compliment the servers, cabin steward, any one who served us every opportunity we have.

We give more then the allotted tips.

The crew work long hours and are away from their loved ones for long periods of time, they deserve to be respected and treated equally.

Thanks again Madra!!!

[GlendaleCruiser]

Came across this website which has to do with life aboard a cruise ship and how crew members are treated.

 

Here's one part that really hit me -

"The cruise ship industry’s 150,000 employees are confined to cramped, confined spaces on six- to 10-month non-stop contracts. Workers from poor countries of Latin America, Asia and Central/Eastern Europe are largely consigned menial work in ships restaurants, bars, cabins and loading bays. Women are concentrated in non-technical services such as hotel work and catering. These workers are segregated from everyone else and are not permitted to go on the upper decks where passengers reside, except for those who must work with passengers directly.

 

In contrast, managers, officers, technical staff, entertainers, medical staff and engineers come from industrialized countries such as the UK, U.S. and Italy. They have more spacious living conditions, have their own private restaurants, and have access to upper decks and some facilities enjoyed by passengers. Noting that workers from poor nations are servicing passengers who largely come from the white population of the rich industrialized nations"

 

 

Just like any large corporation, hiring is done by skills and experience. I would wager that the purser or spa manager has a better education than than the room steward.

 

If the point of this thread is to tip fairly and treat the staff nicely, so be it--let's all do that.

Otherwise, it is pointless.

[tracruise]

The ship quarters vary depending on the department. Crew (deck hands, engine etc) are the lower ranks, usually 4 to a cabin. Also depending on the ship, waitstaff are either 4 or 2 to a cabin. Staff (casino, dancers, shops, musicians, photographers) are usually 2 to a cabin, but the managers often will have their own cabin.

Cabins are much nicer and bigger now than the older ships I worked on.

One thing you don't hear anyone talk about is the changes with the entertainment staff and concessions.

Musicians and dancers used to be mainly Americans, now they are getting Asians and Europeans as well and yes, it is the wages they can pay plus were the ships are deployed for convenience with flights.

 

As far as who makes the money, everyone works long hours, as I say, no one seems to think of the shop staff, photographers or salon staff who also work 12 -15 hours on sea days and on the debarkation days . They usually earn far less than the waiters and cabin stewards (waiters will earn at least triple what the staff make, that is why they stay on longer than other departments).