Liberty not returning to Europe - Pride heading to Baltimore early

[yst347]

Keep in mind that Carnival Corp. operates many ships in Europe seasonally and year-round. The Carnival line is a North American line marketed to North Americans. It made sense to experiment with Med itineraries on ships newly constructed there rather than sailing them empty across the Atlantic. I think Carnival was so surprised with the response, mixed with the strong Euro it made sense to add a second ship. I'm guessing that with the global economic downturn and the now sinking Euro the second ship can no longer be justified.

[Crusin6]

I wonder why only one ship in Europe next summer??? I am assuming the Freedom is still doing Europe...right??

Wrong:( and we had the best vacation ever this past summer on the Freedom! They had planned to pull out of the Med long ago and did not book for summer 09 in Europe for the Freedom.

 

Too bad because we are going back in 2012. I will look at Hal but also RCCL and NCL. Carnival please listen as you are our number 1 choice.

[Crusin6]

Just the 'Dream'

but not permanently and not for too long I believe. I am going to check their website

[yst347]

Wrong:( and we had the best vacation ever this past summer on the Freedom! They had planned to pull out of the Med long ago and did not book for summer 09 in Europe for the Freedom.

 

Too bad because we are going back in 2012. I will look at Hal but also RCCL and NCL. Carnival please listen as you are our number 1 choice.

 

You should add Costa to your list also. Costa has Spirit and Conquest class ships sailing the Med in summer. They are owned by Carnival corp. so you qualify for past guest rates though you will not receive any past guest perks onboard.

 

You should look at Princess also as you will receive past guest rates on that line also.

[CruiznWithHubby]

You should add Costa to your list also. Costa has Spirit and Conquest class ships sailing the Med in summer. They are owned by Carnival corp. so you qualify for past guest rates though you will not receive any past guest perks onboard.

 

You should look at Princess also as you will receive past guest rates on that line also.

 

Costa is a wonderful cruise line,,,but I know that Carnival people love Carnival, and will be highly disappointed,,,

 

Unfortunately, I think this is just one cancellation of many on the way for Carnival and other cruise lines,,,,,and this recession is probably to blame,,,and it looks like it's going to be with us for quite a while,,,,

 

Holly

[yst347]

Costa is a wonderful cruise line,,,but I know that Carnival people love Carnival, and will be highly disappointed,,,

 

Unfortunately, I think this is just one cancellation of many on the way for Carnival and other cruise lines,,,,,and this recession is probably to blame,,,and it looks like it's going to be with us for quite a while,,,,

 

Holly

 

It depends what you mean by cancellation. The flip side is that Carnival has added cruises from the east coast. I would consider the sale of a productive ship or cancellation of a planned new construction, ie a reduction in capacity; to be a true cancellation.

 

I actually think the sinking Euro will prove to be good for the Houston area. I suspect (or wishfully think :)) a ship will sail from the orphaned Bayport terminal next winter though I doubt it will be a Carnival ship.

[CruiznWithHubby]

It depends what you mean by cancellation. The flip side is that Carnival has added cruises from the east coast. I would consider the sale of a productive ship or cancellation of a planned new construction, ie a reduction in capacity; to be a true cancellation.

 

I actually think the sinking Euro will prove to be good for the Houston area. I suspect (or wishfully think :)) a ship will sail from the orphaned Bayport terminal next winter though I doubt it will be a Carnival ship.

 

Good point,,,,,but it's got me worried nonetheless,,,,Holly

[mek]

quote=lovetodream

 

It's hard for me to phathom that Carnival is cancelling cruises...Carnival, one of the most STABLE and SOLVENT cruise ship lines around!

 

 

What you have to remember is Carnival Corp. still has quite a few ships scheduled for Europe next year besides Costa. They have only puled two ships out from their entire umbrella. IMO, a smart move to bring them back to N America.

[nolaAlive]

As a sailing between 2 different US ports, to not violate the PVSA, they have to make a stop at a distant foreign port. The closest distant foreign ports to the East Coast are the ABC Islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao). Unfortunately Bermuda does NOT count as a distant foreign port.

 

They could start the repo cruise in the Bahamas and end in Baltimore. They could also offer a short cruise before that would begin in the US and end in the Bahamas.

 

I also imagine that Baltimore would gladly pay the fines for the passengers to get the ship early.

[yst347]

When the Celebration repositioned from Galveston to Jacksonville several years ago it did so via San Juan. A one way itinerary was offered from Galveston stopping in Key West and the Bahamas enroute to Puerto Rico. The ship then sailed from San Juan via the Bahamas to Jacksonville one way.

 

This seems much more reasonable for the Pride to do as flying to San Juan is a domestic flight and generally much less expensive and with more capacity than flying to Bermuda. Since no itineraries have been announced it looks like the Pride will sail empty to Baltimore. I like the idea of paying the fine though. :cool:

[Kurbanfan]

This seems much more reasonable for the Pride to do as flying to San Juan is a domestic flight and generally much less expensive and with more capacity than flying to Bermuda. Since no itineraries have been announced it looks like the Pride will sail empty to Baltimore.

 

More then likely that is what they will do. When we disembarked from the Victory in 2003 it sailed empty when they repo'd her.......the crew members were ecstatic:p

[nolaAlive]

The US Virgin Islands can be treated as a nearby foreign port.

 

Travel between US and Puerto Rico is allowed as long as no other US vessel provides the same service (they don't).

 

I am pretty darned certain the ship will NOT sail empty unless they are also planning on refurbishing all the cabins at the same time.

[nolaAlive]

I am so disappointed, I was booked on the 14Jun09 sailing. My travel agent called me an hour ago.

 

 

Interestingly, it looks like they have also changed the sail dates of Carnival Dream.

[wrp96]

The USVI do NOT count as a foreign port at all, much less a DISTANT foreign port which is what would be required under the PVSA to sail the ship with passengers from Miami to Baltimore. The distant foreign ports that would satisfy the PVSA and make a repositioning possible are the ABCs or ports in South America.

 

Based on Carnival's past history it is much more likely that Carnival would just sail the ship empty from Miami to Baltimore rather than take the time to reposition the way everyone else here seems to want (if you want examples of what would be required take a look at RCCL's Grandeur of the Seas which repositions to and from Baltimore every spring and fall). Yes, they could break it up into a Miami-San Juan cruise and then a San Juan-Baltimore cruise but again you have the issue of time needed for that sailing.

 

As to "just paying the fine" the fine would be $300 per person and the US government would probably put more penalties on a cruiseline that KNOWINGLY created an itinerary that violated the PVSA.

[yst347]

The USVI do NOT count as a foreign port at all, much less a DISTANT foreign port which is what would be required under the PVSA to sail the ship with passengers from Miami to Baltimore. The distant foreign ports that would satisfy the PVSA and make a repositioning possible are the ABCs or ports in South America.

 

The USVI and Puerto Rico do not need to qualify as they are exempt from the PSA. As long as no American shipping company offers service between the mainland and an Insular possession, foreign flagged vessels are free to operate those routes.

[wrp96]

The USVI and Puerto Rico do not need to qualify as they are exempt from the PSA. As long as no American shipping company offers service between the mainland and an Insular possession, foreign flagged vessels are free to operate those routes.

 

 

That doesn't help the Pride though which is trying to get from Miami to Baltimore.

 

And my comment was to the person referring to them as NEAR Foreign Ports which still would NOT satisfy the PVSA for a Miami to Baltimore which requires a stop at a DISTANT foreign port.

[yst347]

That doesn't help the Pride though which is trying to get from Miami to Baltimore.

 

And my comment was to the person referring to them as NEAR Foreign Ports which still would NOT satisfy the PVSA for a Miami to Baltimore which requires a stop at a DISTANT foreign port.

 

The way it helps the Pride is by sailing an itinerary from Miami to San Juan then sailing an itinerary from San Juan to Baltimore.

 

I don't think this will happen but.....if Carnival were releasing the Pride trans-canal cruise now they would probably end that cruise in San Juan instead of Miami, then offer a one way sailing from San Juan to Baltimore via the Bahamas and/or Bermuda.

 

This is why I believe the Pride will sail empty from Florida to Baltimore. The extra one-way to San Juan would be a tough ship to fill. Discounting the sailings would cost as much or more as just sailing empty for two days to Baltimore.

[nolaAlive]

That doesn't help the Pride though which is trying to get from Miami to Baltimore.

 

And my comment was to the person referring to them as NEAR Foreign Ports which still would NOT satisfy the PVSA for a Miami to Baltimore which requires a stop at a DISTANT foreign port.

 

How does the Jones Act apply to a 2 or 3 day cruise from Miami to Nassau?

 

How does the Jones Act apply to a cruise from Nassau to Baltimore?

 

Answers: It doesn't.

[wrp96]

How does the Jones Act apply to a 2 or 3 day cruise from Miami to Nassau?

 

How does the Jones Act apply to a cruise from Nassau to Baltimore?

 

Answers: It doesn't.

 

 

But then you have the issue of flights which all become international and require a passport. Also, embarking/disembarking a cruise in a port that is not set up for a cruise to begin/end there and no Carnival employees to handle checkin. You are more likely to see a Miami-San Juan repo plus a San Juan Baltimore repo than what you are suggesting.

 

BUT given Carnival's original plan for the Pride, most likely the repo will be a 2 day passenger free trip from Miami to Baltimore.

[nolaAlive]

BUT given Carnival's original plan for the Pride, most likely the repo will be a 2 day passenger free trip from Miami to Baltimore.

 

Given that Carnival is counting every penny these days, I think a non-revenue cruise is the least likely scenario.

[nolaAlive]

Given that Carnival is counting every penny these days, I think a non-revenue cruise is the least likely scenario.

 

Well, maybe not.

 

Looks like there is a 7 day Pride cruise April 18th and service begins in Baltimore April 27th which only leaves a couple of days in between.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

The US Virgin Islands can be treated as a nearby foreign port.

 

Travel between US and Puerto Rico is allowed as long as no other US vessel provides the same service (they don't).

 

I am pretty darned certain the ship will NOT sail empty unless they are also planning on refurbishing all the cabins at the same time.

 

The ship only has 2 days to get from Miami to Baltimore. Don't see much time in there to be calling at any ports.

 

Bill