Question for delayed vaxers,,,cuppycakemom and sas80

[gagirl2006]

Hi,

I saw on another thread that cuppycakemom and sas80 are delayed vaxers but of course this is open to everyone. We are looking at going on a cruise (maybe) when our son is 6-7 months old. Think it is safe to cruise that early when delaying vaccines? I haven't talked to ped. about it yet but I plan on it.

 

Now off topic kind of:::::

 

Also,,,what schedule do you use? Do you use one by Dr. Sears or one that you made? Why do you choose to delay?

 

My son's 2 month appointment is Dec. 3rd and I HAVE to make some decisions by that time. I'm just scared to death of the vaccines really. We skipped the Hep B at the hospital.

 

Thanks to everyone that answers!

[sas80]

I think you should research the areas/islands that you are going to, to see if there are any obvious risks, and ask your pediatrician what shots he or she would recommend and why and then base your decision to vaccinate off of his/her answers, and your own knowledge about the situation.

 

At 6 months my main concern would be that your baby has a flu shot. You are probably not going to be feeding him/her an abundance of table food (food cooked on the cruise ship or on the islands) and definitely dont let your baby drink any water on the island.

 

Our "delayed vax" method is just to make more visits to the Dr's office and split the quantity of shots given. They like to vaccinate using 4 needles with 6-8 vaccines total. We choose which ones we want to give at that appointment and return in a month, two or three for a few more shots.

 

DS is a daycare baby so he had a permanent cold most of his first 2 years of life. I just hated the idea of further bogging down his immune system with a ton of vaccintions....

 

At 2 years DS is mostly current with his vaccines. We have not done MMR or Varicella at all. We found a doctor that would split up MMR, so we will do it that way, and we are still waffling on weather or not we should do Varicella.

 

I had a family member (13) first develop shingles and then, about a month later, tremors and then sleep apnea after getting Varicella. After a diagnosis of turrets (which does not run in our family) my cousin seems to have passed thru watever it was and is back to her old self (after a year). I was also just speaking to my chiropractor about another incident he is aware of that had to do with a Varicella vaccine reaction.

 

DH and I both had chicken pox and fail to see what the big deal is about getting it. It is true that you are more likely to develop shingles as a result of contracting chicken pox, but they do have treatment for shingles.

 

If you have a link to Dr. Sears' suggested vaccination schedule I would love to see it. I looked for it on the web but couldnt find it and assumed that it was a "have to buy the book" type of thing.

 

Long story short, we are just slowing the schedule down on our own. We do not mind paying the extra co-pays it requires to return and get more shots because it gives us peace of mind.

[gagirl2006]

Thanks for your reply!

 

It isn't on his site but I did a search and found this. I'd probably print it out and take it to check against the book.

 

http://thedailyhammond.blogspot.com/2008/05/dr-sears-alternate-vaccine-schedule.html

[sas80]

Thanks for your reply!

 

It isn't on his site but I did a search and found this. I'd probably print it out and take it to check against the book.

 

http://thedailyhammond.blogspot.com/2008/05/dr-sears-alternate-vaccine-schedule.html

 

Thanks SO much for the link!

 

It's interesting that, based on the schedule on the link, Measles is the most delayed of the MMR. The pediatrician whom is going to split the shot for us recommends that we delay measles until 12 years old - after the brain has stopped the bulk of its infantile development. Thru all my research and readinh, the Measles vaccine has always been the biggest suspect when it came to the whole autsim/mmr theory.

 

Also interesting is that the only reason for the rubella shot is that rubella can cause fetal death in pregnant women. Rubella is a benign illness with a mild fever and rash. The same pediatrician said our "son" does not need rubella as he will never be a pregnant female. But all females should always get a rubella vaccination.

 

Also interesting to note is that mumps can cause sterility in boys. So that is a good one to have if you have a boy, in my opinion.

 

Also, thru my research, another suspect is that some children may not be able to digest the vaccine that ends up in their digestive tract well, and that further complicates things. Because of this I will suggest to you, and anyone else whom is interested (regardless of weather or not you are a slow vaxer) consider adding some probiotics to your child's food/menu the day before, the day of, and the day after, the vaccination(s). The probiotics will help boost your child's digestive system and better help them handle digestion in general.

 

Probiotics are easily found in yogurt and also in an over the counter "medication" called Lactinex. Your pharmacy will have Lactinex but you will need to ask for it because it needs to be kept in the refrigerator. The "crush up and add to food" tablets are totally tasteless.

 

Probiotics/Lactinex is also good if your child is suffering from antibiotic induced diarrhea. Antibiotics give children diarrhea because they kill the beneficial bacteria that is found in the intestine. Probiotics (Lactinex/yogurt) replace those good bacteria.

[crusinmama06]

If you are doing delayed vax, just be aware that once the child reaches school age, each state varies on what it allows. Some allow a religious exemption. Some allow medical exemptions.

 

Some moms on my online mommy group are having problems with this issue now that all of our youngest kids are 4 and starting school.

 

Sas and I have had this conversation before. I vax my kids on the ped schedule. I watched one of the 8 year olds in my moms group have a stroke 2 weeks after she contracted chicken pox. :( So with my kids, they not only get the 1st one but also the booster at age 5.

[6rugrats]

Everyone can do what they please regarding vaccinations as long as it's legal.

 

That said, it is difficult to see anecdotal evidence constantly presented as empirical fact. It is as distressing as emotional books by laypeople that are based only on their perceptions.

 

There has not been and remains no scientific data that links any vaccinations with Tourette's Syndrome, Autism, etc.

 

For a more balanced and scientific discussion other than, "my friend says he knows of a case ...,", read the book, Autism's False Prophets: Bad Science, Risky Medicine, and the Search for a Cure, by Dr. Paul Offit.

[kasil]

I agree that making sure that your 6 month old is protected against influenza is important, but if the baby is less than 2 months old now, it will be the wrong time of year for flu vaccination, which here in Michigan is October to January. Whooping cough, on the otherhand, can occur year 'round and can cause relatively mild symptoms in older kids but be deadly for infants. Of the other recommended vaccines for infants, pneumococcal vaccine is another to consider giving on schedule. It prevents menegitis and blood infections, both of which can be deadly.

 

My pediatrician recommends the following websites to parents trying to make this important decision for their children: http://www.whattoexpect.org/news/immunizations, http://vaccine.chop.edu, http://www.vaccinateyourbaby.org, http://cdc.gov/vaccines

 

What ever you decide is best for your family, continue to ask questions and get facts, not just antidotal stories.

[6rugrats]

What ever you decide is best for your family, continue to ask questions and get facts, not just antidotal stories.

 

Good point.

[lucyddr]

Thank you 6Rugrats for your comments!

 

As a physician (and one who will vaccinate my future children perfectly on schedule), I shudder to think of all the bad things that can happen to an unvaccinated child...particularly the child who comes from a family financially able to travel out of our country to areas where many diseases are more prevalent.

 

For those who are delayed vaxers... I'd recommend that you not travel out of the US/Canada until your children have completed their vacs. It seems the safest option in this scenario!

[Host Walt]

I agree that making sure that your 6 month old is protected against influenza is important, but if the baby is less than 2 months old now, it will be the wrong time of year for flu vaccination, which here in Michigan is October to January. Whooping cough, on the otherhand, can occur year 'round and can cause relatively mild symptoms in older kids but be deadly for infants. Of the other recommended vaccines for infants, pneumococcal vaccine is another to consider giving on schedule. It prevents menegitis and blood infections, both of which can be deadly.

 

My pediatrician recommends the following websites to parents trying to make this important decision for their children: http://www.whattoexpect.org/news/immunizations, http://vaccine.chop.edu, http://www.vaccinateyourbaby.org, http://cdc.gov/vaccines

 

What ever you decide is best for your family, continue to ask questions and get facts, not just anecdotal stories.

On another Cruise Critic forum I Host I just posted a caution in a thread that was discussing a possible tort claim against a cruise line. In that thread I strongly suggested that the injured party see an attorney before making any statements at all on a public forum.

 

In this case I strongly recommend having a serious and comprehensive discussion with a pediatrician who is familiar with the family medical and genetic histories of the mother, the father and the infant.

 

While the suggestions and ideas propounded in this discussion are likely good and worthy of consideration, the importance of vaccinations for infants is great and using a cruise message board as a primary source of information is not a good idea.

 

However it is an excellent way to develop a comprehensive list of questions to pose to the pediatrician.

 

Finally, please review the disclaimers in our guidelines relative to any reliance on information posted on the Cruise Critic mesage boards.

[Julienatul]

Unfortunately, only you can make that decision. Basically an unvaccinated baby does not have any antibodies against the diseases the vaccine was designed to protect against. It will always be a risk, how much of a risk is what you will need to determine. It really depends on what countries you are visiting and who your child will be exposed to on the ship and unfortunately that is something you can never predict. I would speak to your physician, get info on each vaccine and the disease and how the disease is contracted (some you can only get by exposure to blood/body fluids (unlikely) others are airborne (very likely) meaning just breathing the air when a person coughs or sneezes can get it) and then base your decision of what you think is best for your child.

 

Julie

[bigpuma]

It's interesting that, based on the schedule on the link, Measles is the most delayed of the MMR. The pediatrician whom is going to split the shot for us recommends that we delay measles until 12 years old - after the brain has stopped the bulk of its infantile development. Thru all my research and Reading, the Measles vaccine has always been the biggest suspect when it came to the whole autism/mmr theory.

 

There is absolutely no evidence of a link between vaccinations and autism. It has been thoroughly debunked many times over. Not only is there no causal link but there isn't even a correlation.

 

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=200

[nybumpkin]

we are still waffling on weather or not we should do Varicella.

 

I had a family member (13) first develop shingles and then, about a month later, tremors and then sleep apnea after getting Varicella. After a diagnosis of turrets (which does not run in our family) my cousin seems to have passed thru watever it was and is back to her old self (after a year). I was also just speaking to my chiropractor about another incident he is aware of that had to do with a Varicella vaccine reaction.

 

DH and I both had chicken pox and fail to see what the big deal is about getting it. It is true that you are more likely to develop shingles as a result of contracting chicken pox, but they do have treatment for shingles.

For what it's worth, I thought I'd pass along my family's own chicken pox experience. In early 1996, our oldest son was 4 1/2 and I was expecting our second son. The varicella vaccine had only recently become available and our oldest son had not been vaccinated. We too were not particularly concerned since both DH and I had chicken pox when we were young. My mom came to stay with us 2 weeks before our second son's due date - and a few days after arriving had a shingles outbreak. She was advised to leave our house immediately, and our oldest son immediately received the vaccine, but it was too late - two weeks later, a day after second son was born, oldest son had chicken pox. And then two weeks later, our newborn developed chicken pox, apparently passed along from his older brother. Our pediatrician was amazed - she had never seen chicken pox in a newborn, and the general thinking in the medical community was that a newborn would have the mother's antibodies for some time after birth. Fortunately, it was a very mild case and gave him no trouble. (I think it was more painful on us as parents, seeing this newborn with a chicken pox rash!) We did have him vaccinated when he was a year old at our pediatrician's recommendation - she felt that since he had a very mild case as a newborn, he might not be immune to a future case. None of our sons (there is a third, born in 2000) have had any problem with the varicella vaccine or boosters. And my mother has not had another shingles outbreak since 1996.:)

[sas80]

For what it's worth, I thought I'd pass along my family's own chicken pox experience. In early 1996, our oldest son was 4 1/2 and I was expecting our second son. The varicella vaccine had only recently become available and our oldest son had not been vaccinated. We too were not particularly concerned since both DH and I had chicken pox when we were young. My mom came to stay with us 2 weeks before our second son's due date - and a few days after arriving had a shingles outbreak. She was advised to leave our house immediately, and our oldest son immediately received the vaccine, but it was too late - two weeks later, a day after second son was born, oldest son had chicken pox. And then two weeks later, our newborn developed chicken pox, apparently passed along from his older brother. Our pediatrician was amazed - she had never seen chicken pox in a newborn, and the general thinking in the medical community was that a newborn would have the mother's antibodies for some time after birth. Fortunately, it was a very mild case and gave him no trouble. (I think it was more painful on us as parents, seeing this newborn with a chicken pox rash!) We did have him vaccinated when he was a year old at our pediatrician's recommendation - she felt that since he had a very mild case as a newborn, he might not be immune to a future case. None of our sons (there is a third, born in 2000) have had any problem with the varicella vaccine or boosters. And my mother has not had another shingles outbreak since 1996.:)

 

They say the younger the kids are, the easier it is for them to get over and get thru any disease.

 

I'm surprised that your pediatrician didnt give your younger one a blood test to see if he was immune to it before he gave your son the vaccine.

[sas80]

Thank you 6Rugrats for your comments!

 

As a physician (and one who will vaccinate my future children perfectly on schedule), I shudder to think of all the bad things that can happen to an unvaccinated child...particularly the child who comes from a family financially able to travel out of our country to areas where many diseases are more prevalent.

 

For those who are delayed vaxers... I'd recommend that you not travel out of the US/Canada until your children have completed their vacs. It seems the safest option in this scenario!

 

This is pretty much what every doctor says. But, being medical professionals, I wouldnt expect them to say anything else.

 

What really upsets me (and this is not directed at lucyddr at all) is the ones who refuse to "hear" the parents whom are truly concerned about vaccination. It's as if we are supposed to believe that our pediatricians word is absolute gospel and should dispel any fears we have. When we dont believe it, the pediatrician gets angry with us and treats us with the attitudes of "how dare we question their authority". Then they tell you never to come back again if you are not going to vaccinate on schedule.

 

Your child still needs care, regardless of weather or not the parents choose to vaccinate on schedule....

 

I realize that the pediatrician is only trying to provide the best care possible for the child - but blackmail and anger is never a good way to go about that.

 

It feels like my child is not as important to the pediatrician as the vaccination schedule is.

[sas80]

I remember my mom.... Boy, she listened to my pediatriciain, no question about it. Whatever he said was what she did.

 

My mother didnt have a college education and she didnt have access to the internet and extraneous information like the mothers (both stay at home and working) do today.

 

I think that is what is making the difference between then and now.

 

I know it's frustrating for the pediatricians, but it is equally as frustrating for the parents.

 

I am a huge advocate of doing what is best for your family and not worrying what others are doing, saying or thinking. Everyone's experiences in life are different - this is what causes us to make the unique decisions that we do.

 

We should honor and respect each other and the choices we decide to make for our little nucleus.

[crusinmama06]

This is pretty much what every doctor says. But, being medical professionals, I wouldnt expect them to say anything else.

 

But aren't they the ones educated enough to make those statements? You say your mom wasn't educated and that's why she listened to her doctor, without question. But people like Lucy are educated, yet you discount what she says as just agreeing with the medical community for the sake of sticking together with those in her field. :confused:

 

I am not arguing the point that the OP should or should not vax her kids. That is her own personal choice. One I wouldn't make from posting on a message board. :p But I wouldn't discount Lucy and her education just because she IS a doctor. I bet she has access to the internet too and all of those hidden underground studies. ;)

[kimmimom]

By the time my third was born, I only allowed 2 shots per visit. She was all caught up a little after her 2nd bday.

 

The reason boys should get rubella is that once numerous people stop vaccinating, these diseases start to have a comeback, look at whooping cough now. Another important reason is boys may be around a women who is pregnant (chose not to have vaccines) and could cause problems in her fetus. Also, like me, I can't gain immunity to rubella for whatever reason. I have had he vaccine 3 or 4 times and my titers come back negative. So if others are like me, your unvaccinated son could cause birth defects in my baby through no fault of my own! I have also had chicken pox twice (once as a child and again at age 18).

 

My pediatrician's wife is a friend of mine. I actually asked her last night at dinner about this same topic. They have 4 children, their third is autistic. I asked her last night if they (he is board certified pediatrician and board certified internal medicine and she is a respiratory therapist) believe there is any connection between shots and autism. She said no and, in fact, their 4th child is fully vaccinated. So if you don't believe doctors who say there is no link, ask them if they vaccinate their kids. I don't think doctors would risk their own kids' health if there truly really was anything to autism/shot link.

[sas80]

But aren't they the ones educated enough to make those statements? You say your mom wasn't educated and that's why she listened to her doctor, without question. But people like Lucy are educated, yet you discount what she says as just agreeing with the medical community for the sake of sticking together with those in her field. :confused:

 

I am not arguing the point that the OP should or should not vax her kids. That is her own personal choice. One I wouldn't make from posting on a message board. :p But I wouldn't discount Lucy and her education just because she IS a doctor. I bet she has access to the internet too and all of those hidden underground studies. ;)

 

I didn't mean to insinuate that I was discounting Lucy and her education in the least.

 

These days there is a lot of information available to those whom are willing to go look for it. Not only might some people have a background in biology or the medical sciences (even if they are not actual MD's) but there are enough resources available via the internet, library, research papers, etc. such that any reasonable person, not buying into biased hype, can make reasonable decisions.

 

Some people are very comfortable trusting their doctors 100%. Some people are not. Some people distrust all medical professionals and think that the medical community, as a whole, is completely profit driven and could care less about really helping people.

 

Where you fall has a lot to do with your choices. Personal experiences, upbringing, education commercial exposure, and who knows what else, all play a role.

[sas80]

By the time my third was born, I only allowed 2 shots per visit. She was all caught up a little after her 2nd bday.

 

The reason boys should get rubella is that once numerous people stop vaccinating, these diseases start to have a comeback, look at whooping cough now. Another important reason is boys may be around a women who is pregnant (chose not to have vaccines) and could cause problems in her fetus. Also, like me, I can't gain immunity to rubella for whatever reason. I have had he vaccine 3 or 4 times and my titers come back negative. So if others are like me, your unvaccinated son could cause birth defects in my baby through no fault of my own! I have also had chicken pox twice (once as a child and again at age 18).

 

My pediatrician's wife is a friend of mine. I actually asked her last night at dinner about this same topic. They have 4 children, their third is autistic. I asked her last night if they (he is board certified pediatrician and board certified internal medicine and she is a respiratory therapist) believe there is any connection between shots and autism. She said no and, in fact, their 4th child is fully vaccinated. So if you don't believe doctors who say there is no link, ask them if they vaccinate their kids. I don't think doctors would risk their own kids' health if there truly really was anything to autism/shot link.

 

It's going to be a truly glorious day when the medical community finally figures out what gene or environmental factors, or both, or none, actually cause, or lend to, the onset of autism and other injury, so that those whom are skeptical, or scared, can start to feel better.

 

A major issue surrounding this whole vaccine-injury conversation is the fact that autism is, in itself, a theoretical black hole...... No one can say exactly why it happens. We know that there is a breast cancer gene, a sickle cell gene, a downs gene, etc.

[6rugrats]

It's going to be a truly glorious day when the medical community finally figures out what gene or environmental factors, or both, or none, actually cause, or lend to, the onset of autism and other injury, so that those whom are skeptical, or scared, can start to feel better.

 

A major issue surrounding this whole vaccine-injury conversation is the fact that autism is, in itself, a theoretical black hole...... No one can say exactly why it happens. We know that there is a breast cancer gene, a sickle cell gene, a downs gene, etc.

 

I have no idea what you mean by "autism is a theoretical black hole".

 

Down Syndrome is caused by having three copies of chromosome 21, instead of the normal two - this is called trisomy 21. Anyone interested in the DS gene research can google it; it's too boring to write out here. However, DS is not caused by a "DS gene".

 

I will continue to get my information directly from primary sources and my physicians, not the news, people's blogs, spam emails or magazines.

 

If your child has autism, I have no idea why you would feel better if you knew the cause. The reality is your child would still be autistic. Sometimes the reasons don't really matter and sometimes you just will never be able to answer, "why"?

[lucyddr]

First of all, I'm not a pediatrician and I don't deal with these issues regularly in my practice...(I'm a general and cosmetic surgeon.) However, I am very well read as my husband and I plan to start our family in the next year or so. I read medical journals as well as other materials on the web, and I try to stay "balanced" in personal/professional opinions. I also am very fortunate to have a very close friend who IS a pediatrician. (BTW Her mother is deaf secondary to having the mumps at 8 years old.) She deals with these issues almost daily! We discussed this issue last night, and while we both agree that vaccinations are critical, we also agree that parents ultimately have the rights to make decisions for their children. My friend DOES do what the parents ask of her in terms of delayed vaccinations, though she simply asks that the parents understand that insurance companies may not be willing to reimburse for extra visits, separated vaccines, etc. Were I a pediatrician, I would probably do the same!

 

It is certainly fair to say that doctors can be and certainly are occasionally wrong! However, most of us try to make decisions in our patients' best interest as well as in the best interest of those in our world. I spent 14 years out of high school (4 college, 4 med school, 5 general surgery, and 1 cosmetic) to be where I am today and I'll assure you that I continue my education with reading, attending lectures, etc. every day. While I don't expect anyone to agree with anything I say or do, I do feel that I am "well qualified" in my opinions.

 

As it pertains to this board, I still believe that parents who select delayed vaccination should probably travel cautiously outside of the US/Canada until the child is vaccinated adequately and probably over 1 year old. For those who do not vaccinate, I'd recommend travelling very cautiously! Those who choose delayed vaccinations or no vaccinations at all are obviously loving parents who are trying to to what they feel is the best for their children... I get that! Therefore, in your childrens' best interest, I'd recommend thoroughly researching the places you intend to travel, the diseases in these countries, the "exposure" opportunities in these areas, etc. and then perform a risk/benefit analysis. My "gut" feeling is that it's probably best not to travel on a cruise with any baby under 6 months with full vaccinations, and under 1 year with only "some" vaccinations.

[sas80]

I just got back from my chiropractor. He mentioned that here is an outbreak of whooping couch at his sons school. He found it particularly interesting that kids whom were vaccinated with pertussis were also coming down with whooping couch. Apparently pertussis is the vaccine specifically designed to eliminate whopping cough.

[sas80]

I have no idea what you mean by "autism is a theoretical black hole".

 

Black hole - dont know what causes it (yet)

[6rugrats]

I just got back from my chiropractor. He mentioned that here is an outbreak of whooping couch at his sons school. He found it particularly interesting that kids whom were vaccinated with pertussis were also coming down with whooping couch.

 

Why is it always the chiropracter who is the first to spot these alarming new medical trends?:rolleyes:

 

It just doesn't get more scientific then this.