Goodbye HAL

[james j feller]

YANKEEJIM,

 

I have been sailing HAL on and off for 20 years now and i don't ever remember getting caviar,unless you paid for it.

 

JIM

[esms5]

Wow,

I think it so amazing that so many people can be on the same ship and have such differing views! We just got back from the Thanksgiving cruise on the Eurodam and had a great time. It was our first HAL cruise. We have done 2 RCL. 1 Princess and 1 Carnival and are booked next NCL. There is just too much out there to see, do and experience for us to remain loyal to one line. All of our cruises were different and we love to compare, joke about and critique the differences. I will say that in our evaluations we never have thought anything was bad...maybe not exactly our taste but.... happy to be blessed by the ability to take our family on these trips is enough. I am a tad bit frightened though I pray we were not the 911 family:D Our family consisted of myself, my dh, dd 18, ds 17, ds 15,dd 14 and my little guy 6. We did have one day by the pool where our 6 year old was on a quest to throw the beach ball across the pool some very,very nice lady kept throwing it back in . I didn't spy anyone looking upset :confused:

If anyone has any questions about the ship I'd be happy to answer if I can.

[RevNeal]

I can certainly understand the OP's disappointment w/ Eurodam...

...for all the PR and hoopla and effort by the staff and crew that have accompanied it's debut, It's not exactly the prime example of a HAL ship.

 

I just think it's too bad that HAL are going ahead with Nieuw Amsterdam IV -

- If ever a line did not need a sistership for a brand new entry, it's HAL.

 

Sorry to say, Brian, I agree. There are some things I DO like about the Eurodam (like the Canaletto, the Tamarind, and the Silk Den), but the negatives far outweigh these few positives.

 

I wonder if they're going to use the same decor and color scheme, or are they going to go with something different? Given the name and it's connection with the colonies and the colonial period, why not find a decor scheme that at least hints at New York. Something in the back of my head is telling me that I had read they were going to use something of an Art Deco theme, but one can hardly tell what they actually mean by that.

[RevNeal]

But that is just it - - - you didn't pay "top dollar" for a cruise. HAL is no more expensive than Carnival these days. (Now before all the HAL cheerleaders get up in arms over that statement, let me clarify that I am not comparing a HAL cruise with the experience one will have on a Carnival ship. I'm just saying that there really isn't much of a price difference.)

 

Well ... yes and no. One can easily take a HAL cruise for a price roughly equivalent to what one will pay on Carnival; it all depends upon the itinerary and the category of cabin. Some HAL cruises are, in actuality, significantly more expensive than Carnival cruises. It just depends upon which itinerary one chooses.

[Mary Ellen]

Sorry to say, Brian, I agree. There are some things I DO like about the Eurodam (like the Canaletto, the Tamarind, and the Silk Den), but the negatives far outweigh these few positives.

We're in agreement with Brian and Greg. We loved Tamarind and the Silk Den, but not enough to get us back on that ship.

 

I don't find it at all surprising that passengers can have vastly different experiences on the same cruise. On our E'dam cruise, we, RuthC, and longtimecruiser had cabins all in a row. We and Ruth had the same cabin steward. Longtimecruiser had a different one :eek: that greatly impacted her cruise (and it didn't help that she knew us and could see how much better our steward was).

 

We also had two large multi-generational family groups on board. Both had families that could desperately used help from Nanny911. We knew this because there were cabins from both families on our corridor AND one of the family groups sat near us in the Dining Room. Other passengers, not near our cabins and/or ate at a different time or area of the dining room, I'm sure had a vastly different experience than we did.

 

Until this cruise, we've always had families on board, but never any problems. With the larger number of triple and quad cabins on the E'dam, HAL is going after the 'family market' and we didn't find that an experience we're willing to spend our vacation time and $$$ on ever again. As long as HAL has the R & S class ships we'll consider sailing HAL. When they are gone, so are we.

[RuthC]

I think part of the perception difference between those who are quite positive about the E-dam, versus those who are more negative, is based on HAL experience.

It seems that those who are new to cruising, or new to HAL, find the E-dam experience very good. They are seeing HAL, and that ship, with fresh eyes. Those of us with more HAL experience, over a long period of time, can't help but notice the difference time has wrought.

It's impossible not to compare what is against what was, and the lowering of the experience is real.

[MadManOfBethesda]

Well ... yes and no. One can easily take a HAL cruise for a price roughly equivalent to what one will pay on Carnival; it all depends upon the itinerary and the category of cabin. Some HAL cruises are, in actuality, significantly more expensive than Carnival cruises. It just depends upon which itinerary one chooses.

 

Well, let's compare apples to apples.

 

A 7 day Caribbean cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

A 7 day Mexican Riviera cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

A 7 day Alaskan cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

A 7 day New England cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

Now, there may be some minor price differences among all these cruises, but I think we can agree that they're all at similar price points. The point I was making was to refute the OP's contention that he was paying "top dollar" for a cruise so he was entitled to a luxurious experience, up to an including the provision of caviar. That's why I suggested that if he truly wanted a luxurious cruise, he should in fact pay "top dollar" and sail on Crystal, Seabourn, or similar line.

[Copper10-8]

Major differences between a Vista and Eurodam:

An extra deck

Tamarind Restaurant

Silk Den bar

Canaletto Restaurant

The Retreat

Cabanas on one side of the Lido pool deck

[yankeejim]

WOW! I didn't mean to get so many feathers ruffled. I posted a brief concern about HAL has changed and I didn't care for it and I am moving on to other higher end cruise lines. I am not a virgin cruiser. My first cruise was on the Niew Amsterdam in 1984, Satendam Thanksgiving 2001, Westerdam Thanksgiving 2005, Veendam 2006 and Eurodam Thanksgiving 2008 = 51 days with HAL. Sprinkle in a couple Carnival cruises in between those years. Over that span of time quality and amenites have changed and it has got to a point that I want a change, thats all.

I am thinking of trying Regent Cruise Lines and if that fit my needs I will go to Crystal. Maybe I will give Cunard a try. The QM2 was in port when we docked on Saturday. What a beautiful ship.

If I offended anyone, please accept my apology.. I will still visit this site and add my two cents.

[Mary Ellen]

I know I wasn't offended.

[MadManOfBethesda]

WOW! I didn't mean to get so many feathers ruffled. I posted a brief concern about HAL has changed and I didn't care for it and I am moving on to other higher end cruise lines. I am not a virgin cruiser. My first cruise was on the Niew Amsterdam in 1984, Satendam Thanksgiving 2001, Westerdam Thanksgiving 2005, Veendam 2006 and Eurodam Thanksgiving 2008 = 51 days with HAL. Sprinkle in a couple Carnival cruises in between those years. Over that span of time quality and amenites have changed and it has got to a point that I want a change, thats all.

I am thinking of trying Regent Cruise Lines and if that fit my needs I will go to Crystal. Maybe I will give Cunard a try. The QM2 was in port when we docked on Saturday. What a beautiful ship.

If I offended anyone, please accept my apology.. I will still visit this site and add my two cents.

 

Well, I just went back and read through every one of the comments posted on this thread and didn't come across any that indicated that anyone got offended or had their feathers ruffled. So in actuality, it appears that you want to provide your two cents, but can't discern when others provide theirs.

[jtl513]

I have been sailing HAL on and off for 20 years now and i don't ever remember getting caviar,unless you paid for it.

We had it one night as an appetizer in the dining room on our first cruise on the Amsterdam in 2002. No doubt it wasn't the best caviar, but it was real caviar - and there was no extra charge.

[RevNeal]

Well, let's compare apples to apples.

 

A 7 day Caribbean cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

A 7 day Mexican Riviera cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

A 7 day Alaskan cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

A 7 day New England cruise in an inside cabin or an outside cabin will cost about the same on HAL or Carnival.

 

Now, there may be some minor price differences among all these cruises, but I think we can agree that they're all at similar price points. The point I was making was to refute the OP's contention that he was paying "top dollar" for a cruise so he was entitled to a luxurious experience, up to an including the provision of caviar. That's why I suggested that if he truly wanted a luxurious cruise, he should in fact pay "top dollar" and sail on Crystal, Seabourn, or similar line.

 

I don't disagree with you at all on any point, other than to add that one CAN pay "top dollar" on specifically chosen ships, itineraries, dates, and accommodations, stay with HAL, and still maintain an overall higher quality experience. It requires cruising on the longer itineraries, the smaller ships, and the more exotic destinations ... not the mass-market runs ... but it CAN be done. I don't generally take 7-day cruises (unless I have little choice, as is the case in the Alaska market); I prefer longer cruises and smaller ships. Also, I cannot help but wonder if two 10-day cruise in an outside cabin on a Carnival boat this past summer would have cost the same as my two 10-day cruises on the Eurodam.

[RevNeal]

WOW! I didn't mean to get so many feathers ruffled. I posted a brief concern about HAL has changed and I didn't care for it and I am moving on to other higher end cruise lines. I am not a virgin cruiser. My first cruise was on the Niew Amsterdam in 1984, Satendam Thanksgiving 2001, Westerdam Thanksgiving 2005, Veendam 2006 and Eurodam Thanksgiving 2008 = 51 days with HAL. Sprinkle in a couple Carnival cruises in between those years. Over that span of time quality and amenites have changed and it has got to a point that I want a change, thats all.

I am thinking of trying Regent Cruise Lines and if that fit my needs I will go to Crystal. Maybe I will give Cunard a try. The QM2 was in port when we docked on Saturday. What a beautiful ship.

If I offended anyone, please accept my apology.. I will still visit this site and add my two cents.

 

Yankeejim, I didn't see or interpret you to be ruffling any feathers. No offense taken at all. I understand perfectly well what you were saying and don't necessarily disagree. You CAN still find a cruise experience similar to what you appear to prefer on HAL, but you have to stick with the S and R ships, and the Prinsendam, to get it. It also helps to cruise at a date and on itineraries that are not heavily impacted by the "mass-market" character.

 

As for trying out Cunard ... that's on my list of things to do, too. I definitely want to try the QM2 and the QV and the coming QE.

[hammybee]

But that is just it - - - you didn't pay "top dollar" for a cruise. HAL is no more expensive than Carnival these days. (Now before all the HAL cheerleaders get up in arms over that statement, let me clarify that I am not comparing a HAL cruise with the experience one will have on a Carnival ship. I'm just saying that there really isn't much of a price difference.)

 

If you want to experience five star dining, if you want a more intimate, refined, and elegant cruise experience, then I suggest that you really do spend "top dollar" and book a cruise on Seabourn, Crystal, or one of the other so-called luxury lines.

 

Well we don't know what the OP paid and it's none of our business. His previous posts reflect he sailed in the PH over Thanksgiving 2005 and had an ensuite dinner for 14.

 

The out of cabin experience on any ship is a factor of the average cabin price which for this sailing was less than $100 p/p, per day. If the OP had sailed Crystal, the average cabin price would have been serious multiples and chances are he may have found the experience more to his liking.

 

I am a cheerleader of cruising, especially mass marketed cruising. HAL's prices are competitive with Carnival and NCL on competitive runs. The Noordam and Carnival sailed similar intineraries this past summer, in Europe ,and the Noordam was often the better priced cruise. Those with bias against Carnival probably have not sailed with Carnival in many years or are thinking of the 3 day party cruises.

[TMJplus1]

There's no chocolate buffet on the eurodam?!?!?!?!?!? :(

[hulamoon]

We had Caviar on the Zuiderdam last spring.

[PaganView]

It's hard to do a true apples to apples comparison, but when researching our last cruise (and dreaming about our next one) I've noticed that on similar itineraries, Carnival tends to spend less time in port and have an extra day at sea. This provides more time for on-board revenue. HAL provides more port time at only a slightly higher cost (for balcony cabins at least). HAL has a great product and I hope to sail again soon.

 

We have done Carnival. We sailed the Pride which is very similar in size to the Vista class. The decor was interesting but we had great food and service and it served our needs at the time (needed a kids club for a 2 year old). However, after being docked next to the Elation at Grand Turk while on the Zuiderdam, I don't think you could pay me to cruise less than 7 days on Carnival and I wouldn't consider any of their ships during peak vacation time.

 

I'm sorry the OP had a disappointing experience. I think the Vistas compare favorably with the similar sized Carnival ships. The difference is that with HAL, the overall experience is probably better as the ships get smaller. On Carnival, the opposite is true. Their smallest ships can be a little scary.

[MadManOfBethesda]

Well we don't know what the OP paid and it's none of our business.

 

EXCUSE ME???

 

NONE OF MY BUSINESS????

 

In case you haven't noticed, this is a public message board. If someone posts on here that they spent "top dollar" for a cruise, then I am entitled to voice my own opinion of what top dollar entails.

[hammybee]

EXCUSE ME???

 

NONE OF MY BUSINESS????

 

In case you haven't noticed, this is a public message board. If someone posts on here that they spent "top dollar" for a cruise, then I am entitled to voice my own opinion of what top dollar entails.

 

Oh my stars. I am sorry that you misunderstood my post. I said "our" business, not your business.

 

Top dollar is a relative term.

 

Just for kicks, I took a peak at Thanksgiving 2009 Eurodam versus Crystal.

A Deluxe Suite on the Eurodam is currently selling for about $4200-5000 for 2 passengers.

 

To get comparable cabin space on Crystal costs almost $15,000 for 2 passengers, 3+ X the cost of a HAL Deluxe Suite.

 

One can however snag an ordinary outside cabin on Crystal for about $5100. This cabin is about half the size of a Deluxe Suite on HAL and has no balcony.

 

I have no doubt the out of cabin experience and food on Crystal is a higher quality and service more consistent than one will find on mass market cruise lines. Passengers decide if that experience and food is worth the potential downgrade in accommodations and increased cost.

 

To expect a Crystal like "out of cabin" experience on HAL or any mass market cruise line, when the majority of passengers pay less than $100 p/p, per day, is apt to have a disappointing outcome.

[MadManOfBethesda]

To expect a Crystal like "out of cabin" experience on HAL or any mass market cruise line, when the majority of passengers pay less than $100 p/p, per day, is apt to have a disappointing outcome.

 

Well, yes. You just made my point. The OP was complaining that he spent "top dollar" for a luxurious cruise experience when in fact he didn't pay anywhere near top dollar for such an experience. If he wants to pay top dollar, he can go to Crystal or Seabourn and get the experience he feels he deserves.

 

If he wants to spend less and sail on a mass market line such as HAL, then it doesn't matter if he's in a PH, suite, or an inside cabin. He's going to get a mass market experience just like the rest of us.

 

PS - And I apologize to you for misunderstanding your initial comment to me.

[Village People]

We had it one night as an appetizer in the dining room on our first cruise on the Amsterdam in 2002. No doubt it wasn't the best caviar, but it was real caviar - and there was no extra charge.

 

We had caviar offered at least three times on our GrandAsia/Australia cruise this [ast fall. Frankly, I don't like it but others seemed to enjoy it. There was no extra charge.

We really like HAL. It suits our age and economic strata and we meet the nicest people. We thought the food was very good, not great, but very good and beautifully presented at all times. There was a chocolate buffet, but who needs it. Beautiful carvings etc. Service was excellent from room stewart to dining room. The ship is CLEAN. We had no complaints. For outside cabin on promenade . Amsterdam. we averaged, minus insurance paying approx. $300 per day per person for 65 day cruise. How does this compare with what others have paid? Would like to know if it was a fair price.

[pipedreams62]

[woody73]

 

. . . I guess it is time to step it up a notch with our cruise line choices.....

Jim - I hope you find a cruise line that meets your expectations.

 

Woody

[hammybee]

Well, yes. You just made my point. The OP was complaining that he spent "top dollar" for a luxurious cruise experience when in fact he didn't pay anywhere near top dollar for such an experience. If he wants to pay top dollar, he can go to Crystal or Seabourn and get the experience he feels he deserves.

 

If he wants to spend less and sail on a mass market line such as HAL, then it doesn't matter if he's in a PH, suite, or an inside cabin. He's going to get a mass market experience just like the rest of us.

 

PS - And I apologize to you for misunderstanding your initial comment to me.

 

Whew ! I knew we were both coming from the same place.:)