Goodbye HAL

[TCF]

We have cruised four different lines over the past two years and frankly we were not disappointed with any of them.

The food and service on HAL, Carnival and Princess were, "dead heat", and while the service on NCL was equivalent to the other three the food, in all venues, was seriously inferior to the other three. This not to say the food was inedible by any stretch...just not prepared with the flair and attention to detail we found with the others.

We have not found a large price difference between any of the lines we have cruised when calculated on a per day basis.

We see no need to move "up" to one of luxury lines.

[kryos]

To expect a Crystal like "out of cabin" experience on HAL or any mass market cruise line, when the majority of passengers pay less than $100 p/p, per day, is apt to have a disappointing outcome.

It's interesting that you make this particular point, because I was thinking about just this sort of thing the other day.

 

I read a lot of cruise reviews because of some work I do ... and I've noticed lately that a lot of the reviews are negative overall. This has nothing to do with cruise line ... I see the negativity across almost all cruise lines and I would say probably at least 50 to 60% of the reviews are on the whole pretty much negative. People had disappointing experiences on their cruises. This got me to thinking why? Are the cruise lines just dropping in quality across the board? Or is it something else?

 

The only conclusion I can come to is that some of us get on the ship thinking we are embarking on a five-star experience. Yet we're only too happy to pay a three-star price to get it.

 

I think we need to keep in mind the old adage "you get what you pay for." I'm not saying we are paying for crap service, lousy food, etc. ... but if you pay say $100 per day per person for a cruise, then you can't walk into your cabin expecting a paradise and then complain bitterly that it's small, with a bathroom you could barely fit in. What did you expect for that price? If you pay $100 a day, you can't get too upset that there are lines to get into AYWD because maybe that particular cruise is taking place over a school vacation period and the staff is scurrying to fit everyone into the dining rooms at a reasonable time.

 

All I am saying here is that a lot of people, especially first time cruisers, have to realize that they are not booking a five-star experience when they book an average cruise. They are certainly getting value for the money, no question ... but they can't expect the entertainment to be on the order of what they will see in a top of the line Las Vegas show room, or the food to be what they would get at a big name restaurant in New York City.

 

I think if we kept our expectations in check and remembered the price we paid for this wonderful experience, we would all enjoy our cruises a lot more because we'd be focused on what we did get, as opposed to what we were missing.

 

Sure, I'd love to try a cruise on Regent or Crystal or Silverseas. I'm sure the experience would be wonderful and would spoil me forever. But the fact of the matter is that my budget can't tolerate one of those cruises. I'm just a working gal. So I try to take the best that's available to me out there, and HAL fits the bill quite nicely.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[TMJplus1]

There's NO chocolate buffet on the Eurodam?!?!?

[hulamoon]

How is it that most rooms are under $100? What TA are offering most rooms for that price?

[richnorto]

OUCH! I think we may be paying too much! Our cruise prices for the family have gone UP every year! I know there are some discount cruises during off periods we can't use, but...I sure hope we don't see a drop in service/food for the vacations for which we pay top dollar! As of last Christmas, we were pleased with everything HAL had to offer. I sure hope they don't drop the ball on us this year!!! We have had such lovely holidays and I would like to make this more than a 3 year tradition!

[hammybee]

 

I read a lot of cruise reviews because of some work I do ... and I've noticed lately that a lot of the reviews are negative overall. This has nothing to do with cruise line ... I see the negativity across almost all cruise lines and I would say probably at least 50 to 60% of the reviews are on the whole pretty much negative. People had disappointing experiences on their cruises. This got me to thinking why? Are the cruise lines just dropping in quality across the board? Or is it something else?--rita

 

I frequent several ( non cruise related) message boards and the overall tone has changed with the economy. The bitterness is often overwhelming. People are increasingly afraid, really, really afraid. Home values have declined just about everywhere. 401K accounts are typically worth about half of what they were not too long ago. And so many have or fear losing their jobs.

 

It's a tough time for many people and this gets projected on message boards, everywhere.

[AlohaPride]

The word "putz"(my mother would cringe if she saw me writing it) is a jewish word meaning penis and is vulgar slang-althoug I know it is now used to mean idiot.Still,us older ones still get bothered by it..

 

Wow. I had no idea. Learn something new every day. lol

 

I agree with Ruth. It's impossible to not compare what was with what is. Unless you've never experienced what "was." :D

 

For us, any cruise with HAL is better than a cruise with, say, NCLA. lol

[SF Cfan]

It's interesting that you make this particular point, because I was thinking about just this sort of thing the other day.

 

I read a lot of cruise reviews because of some work I do ... and I've noticed lately that a lot of the reviews are negative overall. This has nothing to do with cruise line ... I see the negativity across almost all cruise lines and I would say probably at least 50 to 60% of the reviews are on the whole pretty much negative. People had disappointing experiences on their cruises. This got me to thinking why? Are the cruise lines just dropping in quality across the board? Or is it something else?

 

The only conclusion I can come to is that some of us get on the ship thinking we are embarking on a five-star experience. Yet we're only too happy to pay a three-star price to get it.

 

I think we need to keep in mind the old adage "you get what you pay for." I'm not saying we are paying for crap service, lousy food, etc. ... but if you pay say $100 per day per person for a cruise, then you can't walk into your cabin expecting a paradise and then complain bitterly that it's small, with a bathroom you could barely fit in. What did you expect for that price? If you pay $100 a day, you can't get too upset that there are lines to get into AYWD because maybe that particular cruise is taking place over a school vacation period and the staff is scurrying to fit everyone into the dining rooms at a reasonable time.

 

All I am saying here is that a lot of people, especially first time cruisers, have to realize that they are not booking a five-star experience when they book an average cruise. They are certainly getting value for the money, no question ... but they can't expect the entertainment to be on the order of what they will see in a top of the line Las Vegas show room, or the food to be what they would get at a big name restaurant in New York City.

 

I think if we kept our expectations in check and remembered the price we paid for this wonderful experience, we would all enjoy our cruises a lot more because we'd be focused on what we did get, as opposed to what we were missing.

 

Sure, I'd love to try a cruise on Regent or Crystal or Silverseas. I'm sure the experience would be wonderful and would spoil me forever. But the fact of the matter is that my budget can't tolerate one of those cruises. I'm just a working gal. So I try to take the best that's available to me out there, and HAL fits the bill quite nicely.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Right on! I would add for the benefit of about-to-be first time cruisers that this board can be a real mixed blessing. No doubt, practical information about embarkation, what to pack, and favorite sites & activities of past cruises enhances the experience for soon to be cruisers. The fun of discovering a ship for the first time in person, shouldn't take a back seat to what others have written, negative or positive.

[kryos]

How is it that most rooms are under $100? What TA are offering most rooms for that price?

Read some of the ads ... right here on CC ... I'm seeing some amazing prices mainly for the Caribbean. But then, at those prices, you have to be aware that you're pretty much gonna get a cruise and little more. The food, I'm sure, will be adequate, but it probably won't be anything to write home about. Entertainment will be standard cruise fare and special onboard events may be somewhat lacking. And, I'm sure the cabin at those prices will be postage-stamp size.

 

But if you're looking for a great last minute getaway just to unwind and not have to cook or clean up for the week, what's wrong with it? I only wish I still had some vacation time to play with this year as I'd be tempted to book one of these cruises.

 

I guess the prime example I always come back to is a "quickie" cruise I took on the Celebrity Zenith back in 2005. Some travel agent friends invited me to come along with them. This cruise was a travel agent training sort of thingy ... and I was toying with the idea of getting into the field. They told me it would be a great opportunity to see what being a travel agent was all about, as I would get some exposure to the various cruise lines in the presentations that were going to be conducted onboard.

 

This cruise was five days in length and I think I paid a total of about $300 for it. That $300 included my single supplement, port charges and taxes, as well as pre-paid gratuities. It also included a group cocktail party and all the training costs as well. Just about the only thing not included was airfare and transfers. I could live with that.

 

Well, I knew before I even boarded the airplane to Miami that I couldn't go into this cruise expecting first class all the way. At $300 you're not going to get first class. But, was I surprised ... very pleasantly so. Other than the fact that my cabin was probably only a little bigger than a jail cell, the cruise was an amazingly good one. The food was top notch, the service was great and we even got a couple of shore excursions thrown in. Of course, participating in the training was a requirement to get this price, even the training sessions were quite enjoyable.

 

But I think if I had gone on that cruise expecting everything to be perfect, I would have been bitterly disappointed. But, as I went into it with realistic expectations, I had a wonderful time. Why? Because I wasn't expecting much, and thus all the nice touches I did get were a very, very pleasant and unexpected surprise.

 

So, I'm just saying that maybe we need to tone our expectations down a bit if we want to enjoy a great cruise. Today things are different than they were perhaps as little as two or three years ago. I would imagine a lot of the cruise lines are really pressed to fill their ships. My personal opinion is that they did not foresee the problems that have occurred in our economy, and because of that, they just built too many new ships. Now all those berths need to be filled every week ... and the cruiselines are having a problem doing this. So, in order to combat the problem, they have to reduce the prices on some sailings quite a bit. Well, common sense says that when you are selling cabins at what probably amounts to a loss each week, you have to cut expenses as well too. This translates into a greater need to generate onboard revenue, and a lessening of the quality of what may have been offered as included items in the past.

 

The face of cruising is changing, and I think we all have to accept this. Maybe at some point in the future things will change again for the better ... maybe when the economy picks up and more and more people have lots of extra dollars to spare for things like vacations. But for now anyway, I think we all need to adjust our expectations just a bit ... and enjoy those bargains we will be getting without being too critical about the little touches to our cruise experience we have lost.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[CowPrincess]

Big, crowded and about the most rude people I have ever sailed with. HAL for some time has been trying to change their passenger demograhgics and they certainly have succeeded.

 

We found the same thing on our Thanksgiving cruise. I am hoping that it was because of three factors:

 

1. Thanksgiving, so more extended families onboard, which sooner or later wears the whole family out, so they start expressing their tiredness, anger, annoyance, family issues on everyone and anyone they come in contact with

 

2. The whole difference in demographics incited some of the long-time cruisers on board, who responded by becoming louder about how important THEY were, how THEIR needs were more important than those of "the masses", and how much better/superior and/or financially secure they were than "the masses"

 

3. Some REALLY deep discounts offered near the port city in order to sail full, attracting people who would not otherwise cruise. I think/hope that will change as the cruiselines adjust to the new economic realities and devise a number of strategies beyond "Here, take this cruise, it is cheaper than buying a turkey".

 

Not a day went by on our recent cruise that our jaws didn't drop open in shock at the behavior of some of the passengers on our cruise. If our next HAL cruise (not yet investigated or booked) is the same, we will be shopping around for another "cruise home". However, our NEXT cruise will NOT be over a holiday.

[JimVrhovac]

SUITE LUNCHES:

 

We had one when we sailed on the Euroda and had one on the Veendam which we sailed on in November.

 

CHOCOLATE EXTRAVAGANZA:

It is no more....

Corporate made a decision to do away with the chocolate night because of declining attendance and has replaced it with a Lido Pool area Party in the evening. On the Veendam there was a live band and 1/2 of the pool area was a dance floor. On the other side was a snack and finger food desert layout with white and milk chocolate fountains, Not as elaborate as the extraaganza but adequate. We attended but have not made up our minds if we like the change or not.\

 

Ruth & Jim

[kryos]

3. Some REALLY deep discounts offered near the port city in order to sail full, attracting people who would not otherwise cruise. I think/hope that will change as the cruiselines adjust to the new economic realities and devise a number of strategies beyond "Here, take this cruise, it is cheaper than buying a turkey".

 

Not a day went by on our recent cruise that our jaws didn't drop open in shock at the behavior of some of the passengers on our cruise. If our next HAL cruise (not yet investigated or booked) is the same, we will be shopping around for another "cruise home". However, our NEXT cruise will NOT be over a holiday.

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this ... but here goes anyway.

 

In some respects the fact that the cost of cruising is coming down drastically ... and probably will come down lots more in the coming months ... is having some negative results. It means that more people can afford cruising ... and, in fact, find it cheaper than taking the family to the local shore resort for a week.

 

I live in a city environment, and work in the inner city. I also take public transit to work. As a result, I see all manner of people ... some who clearly should never be allowed on a cruise ship. They have no idea how to behave if their behavior on the bus is any indication. They will often be loud, rude, and use the most vulgar language you can imagine as they joke amongst themselves ... despite the fact that there are often some very young children on the bus, traveling with a parent.

 

People like this, in the past, would never take a cruise. Number one, most of them are very low income and a cruise for them would never have been affordable. In the past year or two, however, that has changed. The prices on some of the mass market lines have come down sufficiently to where a cruise could be a real bargain for them ... far cheaper than a weekend in Atlantic City or at the Jersey Shore.

 

So, more and more you are seeing these types of people onboard the mass market lines. You are also starting to see them on some of the shorter HAL sailings ... simply because the prices have come down on some sailings ... down enough so as to make them affordable for more people. And, you know what they say ... you can take the boy out of Philadelphia, but you can't take Philadelphia out of the boy. They will go on the cruise ship and behave in exactly the same way as they behave in "the hood" ... and that translates into a lot of often rude and ignorant people sharing the boat with us that week.

 

I have nothing against cruising being more affordable so that more people can share in its joys. But the downside of that is the fact that we are going to have to get used to sharing the boat with some people who have absolutely no idea, nor couldn't care about, the niceties of basic standards of behavior that would be considered the norm on a cruise vacation.

 

Okay, now you can flame away ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Copper10-8]

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this ... but here goes anyway.

 

......................

 

No flaming here; that's pretty much right on!

OT, ever watch "Parking Wars" and the Philadelphia Parking Authority?:eek: Hope to visit Philly next year June

[JimVrhovac]

Why would you get flamed for stating a simple fact of life.

 

What you said is entirely true.

 

On the longer cruises you tend to have the passanger demographics that are older and more to what we are accustomed to.

 

As the number of cabins increases industry wide they are going to have to fill them and hope that they spend enough on the ships to make up for the decreased income from the cabins.

 

Ruth & JIm

[CowPrincess]

kryos, seriously, I'm not gonna flame you. But I will disagree. The most obnoxious behaviour we saw was from people who HAD cruised before, who had NO problem spending, spending, spending, who were HAPPY to tell us they had 100 days or 55 days or whatever, as though that made them somehow special, as they then trompled over people to get to whatever THEY wanted, insulting the Filipino or Indonesian crew as they went along. I'm not going to give anyone a "laundry list" of occurences, I don't want to dwell on it (preferring to remember all the pleasant moments). But the issues we saw were not "class" or "income" related. I'm pretty sure they were all related to "classlessness" (as in "lacking manners") rather than "lacking income".

[hammybee]

How is it that most rooms are under $100? What TA are offering most rooms for that price?

 

The majority of cabins are inside/outside.

 

Here are some of the p/p, per day prices ( exclusive of port/taxes and fuel surcharge) I am seeing, right now:

 

Maasdam $64

Eurodam $71

Westerdam $64

Zuiderdam $89

Veendam $64

Princendam $93

Zaandam $73

Amsterdam $83

Rotterdam $86

 

All cabins, on all ships, on all cruise lines, like everything, sell for as much as the market will bear, at the point of sale.

 

I am not a travel agent and CC rules do not allow me to mention the source.

[esms5]

I agree with CowPrincess most of the rudeness we saw were from long time HAL customers(according to them)...one lady who was yelling at the front desk staff about some minor (IMHO) stuff started talking about the many letters after her name, referring to her educational level then went on to say that she could ruin their reputation because she was going to tell all she knows about HALs lowered standards. It makes you want to apopogize to the staff. I guess my point is rudeness isn't about income level but your sense of entitlement... which crosses all income levels.

[whogo]

The majority of cabins are inside/outside.

 

Here are some of the p/p, per day prices ( exclusive of port/taxes and fuel surcharge) I am seeing, right now:

 

Maasdam $64

Eurodam $71

Westerdam $64

Zuiderdam $89

Veendam $64

Princendam $93

Zaandam $73

Amsterdam $83

Rotterdam $86

 

All cabins, on all ships, on all cruise lines, like everything, sell for as much as the market will bear, at the point of sale.

 

I am not a travel agent and CC rules do not allow me to mention the source.

Port taxes and fuel surcharge are part of the cruise price. The only reason to break them out is to hide the cruise cost and sell cruises. Adding in taxes and fees raised the cost by 50% on cruises I was checking the other day. When I rule the world the advertised price will include everything.

[fuzzywuzzy]

 

The face of cruising is changing, and I think we all have to accept this. Maybe at some point in the future things will change again for the better ... maybe when the economy picks up and more and more people have lots of extra dollars to spare for things like vacations. But for now anyway, I think we all need to adjust our expectations just a bit ... and enjoy those bargains we will be getting without being too critical about the little touches to our cruise experience we have lost.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I agree totally with what you say. In light of the downturn in the economy, etc. then it only stands to reason that less and less people are going to have the extra dollars to spend on cruises or any type of vacations to far off destinations. The quicker the cruiselines and travel consultants realize this, the better. They kept building and building with no thoughts to the future when there would and could be a down turn. This is just being short sighted if they couldn't see that there would be a glut in the number of cruise ships sailing the seas. It astounded me to see the MEGA ships rolling out of the shipyards like they were in a feeding frenzy or something.

 

The same with the auto industry. Why were the three giants so slow to realize that they had to build smaller and more fuel efficient cars and vehicles?

 

I foresee many of these mega ships going under - mothballed, etc.

[kenevenpar]

The same with the auto industry. Why were the three giants so slow to realize that they had to build smaller and more fuel efficient cars and vehicles?

 

Quite simply, because we the consumer kept demanding sufficient numbers of larger cars, trucks, and SUVs that they did not feel the need to build smaller, and with their employee legacy costs, they could not compete in the smaller fuel efficient marketplace.

[RevNeal]

Cruising on HAL is, indeed, a fabulous value for the dollar; what one gets to do and see, and the comfort that is afforded one while they're doing it, is hard to beat. Here's a for-instance using real-world figures:

 

For one of my 7-day Alaska Cruises (the one aboard the Ryndam) in May of 2009 I am paying $136.20 per-person for a J-category inside cabin. That price is inclusive of taxes, port fees, fuel charges, etc. It's what I'm am paying to the TA up-front for the cruise and does not include any onboard expenses, shore excursions, tips, etc. That's for the second-highest-category INSIDE cabin on the ship, not the lowest category.

 

I consider this a fantastic deal. And, what I get for it on a HAL S-class ship is very much value-for-dollar: what I consider excellent food, comfortable surroundings, superb service, and a wonderful time. Yes, I'm not in a Deluxe Verandah Suite, and I'm sure I don't know what I'm missing .. but I'm enjoying myself, taking my mother on a cruise (a couple of them, actually) and doing so for a price that doesn't break my bank.

[hammybee]

Quite simply, because we the consumer kept demanding sufficient numbers of larger cars, trucks, and SUVs that they did not feel the need to build smaller, and with their employee legacy costs, they could not compete in the smaller fuel efficient marketplace.

 

The business cycle, growth and contraction...build until supply exceeds demand. Automakers, Cruise lines, hotels, air carriers, restaurants, home builders, shopping malls, Starbucks and on and on.

 

Those few who don't build get left behind and those who do build, wind up with excess supply when business contracts.

[kryos]

No flaming here; that's pretty much right on!

OT, ever watch "Parking Wars" and the Philadelphia Parking Authority?:eek: Hope to visit Philly next year June

Yep! And I watch those guys in action every morning when I leave work. Their parking authority office is located right around the corner from my job!

 

Let me know when you're coming to Philly. Maybe we can sit down and enjoy a Philly Cheesesteak together! My treat!

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I foresee many of these mega ships going under - mothballed, etc.

I don't see that at all. Rather what I do see is the cruises on those ships going down to dirt cheap prices ... and I am talking dirt cheap. They will need to do that in order to have a prayer of filling them.

 

But, on the flip side of the coin, you will get a barebones cruise for that price ... pretty much EVERYTHING onboard will incur an extra charge. That's the only way those ships can sail at anything bordering on a decent profit ... if they pump the onboard revenue up by requiring extra charges for just about everything. Wanna climb that rock wall? $20 please. How about watching the ice show? That'll be $10 per head. Food in the dining room not to your liking? You can dine in a decent restaurant over there ... but it's gonna cost you $20 bucks a head.

 

You get the picture.

 

The cruise will be dirt cheap, but you'll make up for those savings when you get a look at your onboard statement at the end.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Copper10-8]

Yep! And I watch those guys in action every morning when I leave work. Their parking authority office is located right around the corner from my job!

 

Let me know when you're coming to Philly. Maybe we can sit down and enjoy a Philly Cheesesteak together! My treat!

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Will do!