Carnival Dropped the Ball when guy died.

[palmtrees40]

I was wondering how the medical response is at an all inclusive land vacation compared to a cruise?

[bobsfamily]

well if there are AEDs on the boat i never saw one. And i went out of my way to look for them sunday night. I did call Carnival and asked them that question. They assured me they will mail me a letter with the answer. I will see how fast that gets to me since noone in "guest relations" new anything about them being on the boats. I was impressed that the guy i talked to knew what they were however. Quite frankly I am glad that most of you think it is a nonissue. Good luck on your cruises. I wish you good health.

 

Er uh the ONE on that deck WAS USED and had not been replaced. They are not very big but are plainly marked... well for someone who looks that is.

[crusin2dabahamas]

As a professional medical first responder, I can tell you that with rare exceptions that the chances of survival for that kind of event would have been no better on land than on that ship. By the time that someone recognizes a problem, calls 911, answers all their questions, dispatches the proper response, travel time etc. it is almost always too late to change the outcome. Unless someone is standing next to you with a defibrillator when you have the big one, then the outcome is usually bleak. So don't blame Carnival.

 

Not only was I on this cruise, but we were laying out on the sports deck where it happened. I will agree that the responders should have had the necessary equipment with them when they got there, but the guy had already been laying there for a few minutes before anyone even realized something was wrong. (From what I understood, the people around him just thought he was taking a breather.) I seriously doubt that there was anything that could have been done for him by that time. And as far as crowd control....(not that this has any effect on the guy's life anyway), but I don't know what more the crew could have done to make the people leave unless they were to use physical force. They told the passenger over and over to clear the area, and they just kept standing there like they didn't hear a thing. We actually heard one passenger complain that she had to leave that area of the deck because she was tanning.

[halos]

We actually heard one passenger complain that she had to leave that area of the deck because she was tanning.

 

:eek:

:rolleyes:

 

I wonder if I'll ever stop being totally flabbergasted when I hear stuff like this.

[gaylensgigi]

I don't think you are wrong..it would be nice to have the AED devices on board...I just wonder do you find them in other resorts/hotels???

I'm not trying to be snarky...this is a legitimate question. I will take your word that airports, public buildings (???) and gyms as well as casinos have them because I wouldn't know if they did or didn't.

 

 

They have them in Walmarts:eek:.It is part of new employee training,they are on airplanes,busses and any other public places.They are on Carnival cruiselines as well. This past November, a passenger in the cabin across from us had a massive heart attack. The AED was in the cabin even before the "brightstar" was called. This man had appropriate response time and action, but he did not make it(This was on the Destiny)

[Theologator]

I completely agree about the fact that it is very difficult to diagnose and especially without the equipment. I also did not mention she was bleeding internally when she went in to the infirmary and she told them her symptoms, which I would think would make a good doctor say hmm..., and they did not think anything of it! Maybe Carnival should consider having an OB on board or someone that knows how to deal with women. I would say that at least half of the pax on cruise ships are women and women problems can be very dangerous. Not to mention, I have never been on a cruise where I haven't seen several pregnant women. I know they go at their own risk, but you never know when a healthy pregnant woman can suddenly have a serious problem. JMO!

 

Internal bleeding isn't going to be easily diagnosed either - it often takes hospitals a long time to confirm it and longer to diagnose a source.

 

The cruise contract severely limits the cruise line's liability on every front possible. Still, I'm surprised to see so much testimony about poor &/or unresponsive care.

 

Is Carnival materially different in this regard from other cruise lines? What about corporately? I would expect their legal & medical standards to be fairly consistent among their own various lines - why would they risk more liability on Carnival than HA, for example.

 

Leaving Sunday - hope we return!

[cschultz]

Although I should not even respond because it seems to me like you are only trying to get me going, I am going to say one last thing! Would you really get on a cruise ship if you not only have prostate cancer (I dont see this as a reason not to cruise as long as you are feeling good) but if you also could not pee all day? I would personally rather be in the comfort of my home if I were having such problems! JMO

 

 

At least we wouldn't have to worry about him fouling the hot tubs!

[dan40]

I was wondering how the medical response is at an all inclusive land vacation compared to a cruise?

 

It is 100% equal to the skill of the local Doctor, Whatever that skill level is. And the location of the local hospital, wherever that hospital is located and its care level.

 

Could be terrific,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Maybe...

 

Dan

[Theologator]

I am with you on this one Halos. It also seems that the thread has turned from they took their sweet time, to there weren't any AED on board for anyone to use. Seems like a dog chasing its tail.

 

Or a Vol chasing a Gator...quick, and they BITE.

[VolzCruiser]

Or a Vol chasing a Gator...quick, and they BITE.

 

Lately it does seem like a Blue Tick Hound chasing a Gator's tail. Maybe one day.

[trailercruiser]

Thank you for clearing this up.

So you believe his heresay? He wrote his wife joined him in the restaraunt and told him what happened. That you believe but op you don't. I was there the whole time and it was a good 10 minutes before medical attention arrived. This is not heresay I WAS THERE. An autopsy revealed his life could have been saved with quick actions. Are you happy now Carnival blew it. The carnival employee could have stuck a knife in him and you would and all these cheerleaders would still defend Carnival. The truth hurts. :(

[bobsfamily]

. This is not heresay I WAS THERE. An autopsy revealed his life could have been saved with quick actions. :(

 

You were at the autopsy? Wow - was it done right away back there on the basketball court before they flew him away?

 

I see from your screen name that you must have a law degree and are a doctor....

[Newway1392]

I am so sorry for the loss of such a young person, and I am sorry that it happened on your and his vacation. I am not a Dr., nurse or anything in the medical field but I agree they can't have a specialist of every kind on the ship. I think it only responsible that the Dr. on board be qualified. I would say by American standards but I have seen my fair share of inadequate quacks right here at home unfortunately. At the same time, Carnival should have AED's in every public room and several on each level with cabins. They are only $400.00 each and if they added $1.00 per person per voyage, they could have what they need in very short order. That being said I think people get used to the way things are in America. I doubt any of the ships are American based. The other thing to think about is how many people have had training in the use of the AED, CPR and 1st aid recently? It is up to all of us to help each other, especially when we are in a situation like that. Instead of qwaking someone should have stepped up to the plate to help take control. We try to travel with at least some basic medical needs. I do hope Carnival steps up to the plate and installs AED's.

[June Bug]

I had to chime in here...but only to clear up a few things. As an OB nurse who works in Labor and Delivery and I have for many many years (yes, I'm old)...I had to comment on the Ectopic Pregnancy issue. Not only do I deliver babies but I work in an area where newly diagnosed pregnant women come in with pregnancy problems in the hospital. I have also working in an OB/GYN office, so I have heard many issues that were thought to be caused by one issue, only to turn up being caused by another.

 

#1 - If the patient INDEED had internal bleeding, this would have meant that she had a RUPTURED ectopic pregnancy and would have been a LIFE THREATENING emergency and would have needed to be MEDIVAC-ED off the ship....What I suspect is that maybe she had some Vaginal bleeding and pain complaints and wasn't sure where the blood source was coming from (sorry to get so graphic). This is seen quite often in L&D as women come in and aren't sure if the blood they are seeing is Urinary or vaginal...so I can see how that may have happened here.

 

#2 - An Ultrasound would have solved the whole issue. What I suspect is that the patient was having mild - mod crampy pain which can present itself like kidney stone complaints. In addition, the patient probably said "I had some blood when I went to the bathroom" I hear this one alot too. Being that the ship's doctors (and MOST doctors who aren't OB's) do not do pelvic exams. Even in the Emergency rooms you all go to everyday for problems, those doctors do not do pelvic exams....that is usually reserved for an OB...so it isn't a STANDARD thing for a physician to do. The patient was probably given pain meds and sent on her way.

 

#3 - Considering the fact that the HOSPITAL also missed this diagnosis, leads me also to believe that the patients complaints were probably vague. I don't know how many times a patient comes in to me and can't describe what is bothering them. It isn't possible to go thru the list of all known diseases and their symptoms with the patient, so a healthcare provider can only go on what the patient is telling them. I'm certain she was asked (atleast in the hospital) when was your last menstrual cycle....could you be pregnant...that is pretty standard on all types of questionairres.

 

I'm not saying that the ship or the hospital didn't do anything incorrectly, I'm just saying the situation was probably not as DIRE as some have hinted at. Being that she made it thru that extended time period without dying. I have seen many terrible cases of Ectopic Pregnancies that have ruptured and seen a couple that ended in death due to lack of timeliness in getting them resolved...and it wasn't extended periods of hours we are talking about...We are talking within an hour of having it rupture.

 

Just wanted to give some facts on the matter there.

 

I pray for the family of the young man.

 

June

[VolzCruiser]

So you believe his heresay? He wrote his wife joined him in the restaraunt and told him what happened. That you believe but op you don't. I was there the whole time and it was a good 10 minutes before medical attention arrived. This is not heresay I WAS THERE. An autopsy revealed his life could have been saved with quick actions. Are you happy now Carnival blew it. The carnival employee could have stuck a knife in him and you would and all these cheerleaders would still defend Carnival. The truth hurts. :(

 

While it appears that there is more than one side to this story, yours, his, theirs and others none are consistent. So I guess we will never know the whole truth will we.

[Newway1392]

Have a great cruise.

[Theologator]

Lately it does seem like a Blue Tick Hound chasing a Gator's tail. Maybe one day.

 

You, Sir, are a good sport.

[gaylensgigi]

I am so sorry for the loss of such a young person, and I am sorry that it happened on your and his vacation. I am not a Dr., nurse or anything in the medical field but I agree they can't have a specialist of every kind on the ship. I think it only responsible that the Dr. on board be qualified. I would say by American standards but I have seen my fair share of inadequate quacks right here at home unfortunately. At the same time, Carnival should have AED's in every public room and several on each level with cabins. They are only $400.00 each and if they added $1.00 per person per voyage, they could have what they need in very short order. That being said I think people get used to the way things are in America. I doubt any of the ships are American based. The other thing to think about is how many people have had training in the use of the AED, CPR and 1st aid recently? It is up to all of us to help each other, especially when we are in a situation like that. Instead of qwaking someone should have stepped up to the plate to help take control. We try to travel with at least some basic medical needs. I do hope Carnival steps up to the plate and installs AED's.

 

 

 

Again, AED's are on Carnival ships, I have seen one used,with myown eyes.I think what they need to do is publicise the locations. Maybe in the Capers since every one reads them. But they are on the ships.

[sam1148]

Again, AED's are on Carnival ships, I have seen one used,with myown eyes.I think what they need to do is publicise the locations. Maybe in the Capers since every one reads them. But they are on the ships.

 

I've seen them in a Gym and in a waiting room for a dentist's office. They're hanging on the wall easily visible like fire extinguishers. It would be kind of pointless to have them if they had to track down the supervisor to ask where they where stored.

[VolzCruiser]

Quick question for the paramedics and medical types out there cause, god knows I don't have a clue. Since it is being reported that the man death was due to cardiomyopathy would an AED have been of any use?

[kyrisong1]

Internal bleeding isn't going to be easily diagnosed either - it often takes hospitals a long time to confirm it and longer to diagnose a source.

 

 

Leaving Sunday - hope we return!

Actually internal bleeding is a fairly easy diagnosis. You have the GI tract expelling it through the colon or vomitus. The looks of the stool will either be black and very tarry, or just very black and foul smelling and sometimes very dark red (maroon) liquid stools depending on where the bleed is. If it's an upper GI bleed it's usually vomitus that appears with a coffee ground consistancy.

Either way a simple Hemocult test can diagnose it ( you know the little things you smear stool on and send in to the lab for early diagnosis of colon cancer?) there is a very simple developer they use to tell if there is indeed blood in the substance, our nursing assistants often do this test at the hospitals.

Carole

[kyrisong1]

Quick question for the paramedics and medical types out there cause, god knows I don't have a clue. Since it is being reported that the man death was due to cardiomyopathy would an AED have been of any use?

There are assorted cardiomyopathies out there, but the whole thing is the heart is big and flabby from muscle damage, this can and does happen in young folks from viruses. So the answer to your question isn't really yes or no, if he went into an arrhythmia , which because of his age I could suspect, then yes. You cannot tell if it's a shockable rhythm without seeing a rhythm strip or if you have an AED that tells you. But there are only a few rhythms you would actually shock on Ventricular arrhythmias, if someone has no detectable heart beat then you cannot help them by shocking and if the problem is extremely slow heart rate a shock could actually kill them. It actually is sorta rocket science, they have it down to a fine art.

But I believe with all my heart AEDs should be widely available in public places and now they actually are everywhere. I will be on the Spirit next month and plan to pay attention to where we can find AED's and I'll report back.

Cheers, Carole

[gaylensgigi]

I've seen them in a Gym and in a waiting room for a dentist's office. They're hanging on the wall easily visible like fire extinguishers. It would be kind of pointless to have them if they had to track down the supervisor to ask where they where stored.

 

I was meaning this more geared towards passengers. Many people are trained to use them at their jobs. Even if not,it will talk you through the process starting from where to place the pads to what is or is not a shockable rythym. Maybe muster drill would be a good place to inform passengers about placement/access to the AED's

[dan40]

I was meaning this more geared towards passengers. Many people are trained to use them at their jobs. Even if not,it will talk you through the process starting from where to place the pads to what is or is not a shockable rythym. Maybe muster drill would be a good place to inform passengers about placement/access to the AED's

 

Tell all the pax where all the AED's are and they won't be there when anyone needs them!!:(

 

Dan

[June Bug]

Just to be straight with you...Internal bleeding that you are talking about can only be diagnosed that way if the source of the bleeding is located in the Alimentary Canal (meaning from the entire tract-- mouth to the rectum) ;)...if the bleeding were coming from any other source, it would be trapped in the area surrounding it.....IE brain bleeds do not show up in vomit or stool.....same with many bleeds from abd trauma and occasionally ruptured ectopic pregnancies. So it is not always a no brainer and is not always easy to diagnose. Just going on my RN training and hospital work ;)

 

June