Irritated by Special Needs Excursion Dept.

[TrinaP1204]

Does it not bother anyone else that if you have questions about accessibility on a shore excursion thru Royal Caribbean that you are not able to talk to a live person? Email is the only option.

 

I asked them why and was told "They must deal with many, many people every day and do not have time to deal with them all so some must go thru email only."

 

Funny that they pick us, the ones who need a little extra attention, to be the ones not worthy of their time to speak to us directly.

 

They do not seem to understand that their answers can make or break a cruise for us. It has been proven time and time again just how many dollars disabled cruisers put in their pockets but we seem to be less worthy of their attention.

 

Just my rant for the day.

[Arwenmark]

I have not sailed with them for many many years now, but I find that most of the Excursion departments know NOTHING whatever about the excursions accessiblity other than if it has a WC icon on it. and even then they don't know what that really means, does it mean they can get your WC on a bus? but you have to climb stairs and the excursion itself may be over rough terrain or have steep stairs etc.? does it mean a van with a WC lift? does it mean they can take a folding WC?

They really do not know and that includes the guys ON the ship. They are right there with these tours every week but they don't know and if they call or email the tour operator, usually they can't get an accurate answer either.

Mostly the disabled have to make all their plans themselves and then PRAY HARD that they actually work out.

[kyriecat]

It's mostly pointless to communicate with the special needs department at RC anyway. They don't ever seem to get anything right! My mom is in a wheelchair so I have some experience with them. A couple of years ago, my parents took a cruise with my husband and I to Alaska. I knew excursions would be a problem so planned most of the trip with private excursions. We didn't run into too many problems.

 

My parents took a New England/Canada cruise last year and were intimidated with planning their excursions since I wasn't going. They got a list of "accessible" excursions from RC's special needs department.They emailed special needs back with the excursions they had booked and thought everything was taken care of. WRONG! For their first excursion there was no lift bus. They didn't find out until they had left the ship with the group to board. They couldn't go on that excursion. They talked to the excursion staff onboard and was told that no one had forwarded any information to them about a wheelchair excursion. My dad gave them a list of excursions that they had booked and was told the ship staff would handle the problem. Next port, again no lift bus. They were told that shore excursions didn't have time to get hold of one, not that they let my folks know about it. They found out when they went to board the bus. Out of 5 excursions they had booked, they only got to go on 2 of them. They ended up getting money back but it wasn't a pleasant experience for them.

 

They took another cruise with RC in February without me. I spent several hours researching and contacting RC about excursions. I had a phone number and was able to talk to a live person a couple of time but communication was mostly email. I posted that experience: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=932390

 

Again, someone dropped the ball at RC. There was lots of finger-pointing (shore excursion manager said Miami didn't forward information, Miami claims they forwarded the information but shore excursions onboard didn't follow up). In the end, my folks missed the one excursions that they really wanted to take. I read on this site later that other wheelchair passengers were allowed on that excursion for other sail dates so it appears that someone forgot to arrange the transportation and lied about it to my folks.

 

I'm taking a cruise with my mom in January. I'm not even going to bother seeing what RC offers. When I get onboard, they will probably just lie about not being contacted, the excursion not being available, or whatever. They really are clueless! :mad: I'm not sure what else I could do (besides fly to Miami and kick someone in their hindquarters to make them do their job!) to follow up on accessible excursions.

[WEELYNCRUZER]

I still suggest that you google accessible travel speciaist. You work hard for your money and try to do it on your own. Try one you will like it.

[TrinaP1204]

We do have a travel agent. One who is in a wheelchair also. But not much help so far. We are doing some shore trips on our own. Only a couple are thru Royal Caribbean.

 

It just annoys me that they treat disabled people like second class people. But I am just waiting on the reply from them to finalize our reservations for shore trips. Makes me nervous as it gets closer. I just want it finalized.

[kyriecat]

I recommend having a back-up plan for any ports where you have a tour booked through RC. They haven't followed through with appropriate transportation on 5 of the 8 tours that my parents had booked with them. Last time my folks had brought the email correspondence with them onboard and still ran into problems. My impression is, in general, the shore excursion staff find people with disabilities to be a bother that they really don't want to deal with but they put up a front due to the ADA.

[uppitycats]

You all have to remember that the ADA only applies in America and at American ports. The rest of the world, including Canada, Mexico, the Caribean, Europe, do not have any obligation to adhere to the ADA and RC..or any other cruise line..has no authority to force them to do so.

 

Many of these countries have very few if any available accommodations for people with disabilities. Their view of disability is quite different from ours here in the US. Actually that's not quite accurate. Their view of disability is more like what the view used to be here in the US (and sometimes still is): "people with disabilities ought to be in institutions somewhere where we don't have to deal with them, or at least be grateful for what little we offer." So they don't have vans or buses with lifts. They don't have curb cuts, or accessible bathrooms, or accessible doorways or any of the rest of it. And when asked by people, will give out an answer the equivalent of "no problem"...and there is nothing available when we get there.

 

To be fair, Canada is quite a bit better -- but you do have to deal with excursions personally to be sure you get what you need.

 

I've said this before on threads here: Each of us is different. There is no "standard". What I need to make an excursion acceptable may be quite different from what someone else needs, even though we both use a wheelchair (or put in your disability description here.) I don't expect that sales clerks (and that's what the folks at excursion desks are -- sales clerks) will know - or can possibly know -- everything they might need to know about every disability "out there", and what each individual disabled person might need to make the excursion possible.

 

You need to be aggressive and proactive about this if you want to participate on excursions -- and yes, you have to be prepared to be disappointed if even your efforts fail, and the excursion isn't available to you after all. But don't expect the rest of the world to adapt to the ADA, or any other AMERICAN disability rights legislation. Ain't gonna happen.

[kyriecat]

Uppitycats,

 

While I understand that the ADA does not apply outside the US, or really to the cruise ships at all, most of the cruiselines have a "special needs" department and advertise their accessibility. The issue I have is their follow through. Royal Caribbean claims to have excursions available in some ports with lift buses for those in wheelchairs who cannot climb steps onto a bus. They will even provide a list of available excursions and take your money when you book them. The problem comes when you get onboard and find out that 1) the excursion is not actually accessible, 2) someone (corporate or ship staff) forgot to make arrangments for the lift bus, 3) the accessible version of the tour was supposed to be more than you were charged so the ship staff cancelled it and didn't tell you.

 

I think cruiselines either need to find a way to pass information between corporate and the ship regarding accessible excursions or simply state that they do not offer accessible excursions. Excursions with lift vans have to be booked at least 30 days prior to sail date so it's not like they don't have time to make the arrangements. Holding your money for a month or longer then telling you onboard that they cancelled your excursions is BS.

 

If cancellations happened only occasionally, I understand that things happen outside the cruiseline's control. I've had both private and cruiseline excursions cancelled for various reasons. In my mind, a 60% cancellation rate for accessible excursions mostly because someone didn't do their job and make arrangements is unacceptable.

[uppitycats]

kyriecat, your past experience with RC should be a clue -- they don't really know...or perhaps don't really care...about making sure that their excursions are accessible. I simply don't rely on cruise lines to know, regardless of what they say, and so do the "footwork" myself, rather than keep expecting them to do something and then being annoyed when they don't.

[leoandhugh]

and you must remember that the Special Needs Department has absolutely nothing to do with accessibility of shore excursions - unfortunate, but that is the fact. The Special Needs Department is responsible for making sure that your needs are taken care ON the ship, not OFF it. The Shore Excursions are handled on board the ship by those people, and unfortunately, the booklets made up by the Shore Excursion Dept as far as ease or difficulty is not checked with Special Needs. Having been on many cruises as an HC pax and having experienced the fact that the shore excursion booklet and the listings on the cruise line site are not reliable, we always wait until we can talk to the head of the Shore Excursion Dept aboard and hope that we can get more reliable info. And even that does not always happen. But as others above have stated, you have to make sure that you fully explain your limitations. Just saying you use a wheelchair is inadequate. They need to know if you can transfer, can you walk up a couple of steep steps to get into a bus etc etc. It does no good to get angry after the fact IMO:)

[WEELYNCRUZER]

I wish I could give you the name of my travel agent. She has been to every carribean port and has contacs for private vendors that can handle just about any type of disability. She has also been to Scandanavia Russia and has contacts with accessible vans and english speaking tour guides. She had to go thru a broker the first time and has established relationships so she can cut out the middle man and save the client money.She has also toured Alaska inside passage and inland. You can find her on the web under accessible travel. You will even see pictures of me because I am the guinnea pig in a w/c with other clients. happy cruising.

Jerry

[TrinaP1204]

Wow. This thread sure took off in all directions. Not my intent to go in that direction.

 

I was just commenting on not being able to talk to a live person and dealing with email when it seems like that is the only dept. that is "email only". Oh well.

 

Our cruise is to Alaska so we are having better luck with accessibity than when we went to Caribbean. Definitely.

[AndyTheK]

... we always wait until we can talk to the head of the Shore Excursion Dept aboard and hope that we can get more reliable info. And even that does not always happen. But as others above have stated, you have to make sure that you fully explain your limitations. Just saying you use a wheelchair is inadequate. They need to know if you can transfer, can you walk up a couple of steep steps to get into a bus etc etc. It does no good to get angry after the fact IMO:)

 

It has always been our practice to do this, both on cruise ships and off (resort hotels, etc.). Even so, we have found a great variance in both the knowledge and level of care to the matter among the lines we've cruised on. P&O UK was simply fantastic! The cruise desk employees knew their vendors' capabilities perfectly, and the vendors delivered what was promised. Carnival was fine, although the excursions we were interested in on that cruise did not need special equipment, but simply good descriptions of what the excursion included. RCL, on the other hand, proved dismal. The cruise desk people were so interested in selling us something that they ignored my wife's limitations - despite the fact that she was sitting in her scooter talking to them! They sold us an excursion completely unsuitable, which caused my wife a great deal of frustration and humiliation. The excursion manager insisted that it was "strongly emphasized" to the sales people to know exactly what they were selling. Obviously, the emphasis was not "strong" enough! We did get our money refunded eventually, but it was a hassle which should have been avoidable. We cancelled right then and there the other tour we had booked.

 

Our next cruise will be with Princess - first time for us with them, and we shall see how things unfold.

 

As an aside, the statement that lift equipped vans need be reserved 30 days in advance is simply incorrect as an across the biorad generality: P&O offered a lift-van tour of Copemhagen which we eagerly booked the day we sailed, as my wife's grandfather was born there. We were advised that the tour depended on a minimum number of people booking. The evening before the tour, we were informed that the minimum had been met, and all was set to go! In other words, the cruise line was able to reserve this van on two days' notice!

[shodan]

I do not see any info on NCL in these posts. Any experience with this line? Most interested in Wheelchair usage in Canada:Halifax, Quebec City, Charlottetown, Sydney.

[uppitycats]

I do not see any info on NCL in these posts. Any experience with this line? Most interested in Wheelchair usage in Canada:Halifax, Quebec City, Charlottetown, Sydney.

 

I cruised with NCL on this itinerary. Note that most of these towns are old, so the sidewalks are stones, irregular, rough. Getting off the ship will depend entirely on the tides, and whether you can walk sufficiently to board a tender at ports where tendering is necessary, or how steep the ramp is for those ports where the ship can dock alongside. NCL will not allow power chairs or scooters on the tender, so you'd need to take your manual chair and have a travelling companion carry it on/off for you.

 

The ADA of course does not apply outside of the US, and you'll find accessibility in Canada variable. I just returned from a 10 day stay in Edmonton, for example (not a cruise, of course!) where the hotel room labelled "accessible" did have a large bathroom with plenty of room for a wheelchair to turn around, and grab bars around the toilet -- but the sink was way high, the mirror too high for my use, and there was a tub. There were grab bars in the tub enclosure, and a bath seat that fit INside the tub. There was a hand-held shower head attached, but getting to it was a challenge! :) Fortunatelly I could stand long enough to transfer to the bath seat, and my husband was available to assist. Otherwise I would not have been able to shower.

 

The NCL ship (The Jewel) was quite accessible, and the staff very helpful.

[vickila]

I do not see any info on NCL in these posts. Any experience with this line? Most interested in Wheelchair usage in Canada:Halifax, Quebec City, Charlottetown, Sydney.

 

Just thought I'd let you know that much to our delight, St. Anne's Cathedral in Quebec and Falls in Quebec were both totally accessible for a scooter. At Falls, you ride cable car up on scooter (barely enough room - but suited to do so) and then go around back of house for trail that leads to suspension bridge (quite a thrill). Too rocky for a wheelchair push -- but acceptable for scooter. On first level of falls -- it's flat and you can go all the way so that you get wet!! Getting there is the problem.

 

Halifax - boardwalk is fun and right there - leads to Maritime Museum (Titanic) - and casino and Murphy's (lobster). At pier to the right is shopping (inside) and museum.

 

Sydney - a nice pier. We attended Fiddler Expo. Tea Time -- and there's shopping. A little taste of Scotland!

 

Charlottetown - there is a company called something Elephant that has lift accessible tours -- go to main boards. Vicki

[leoandhugh]

I just do not understand the OPs original complaint about not being able to talk to a human - that email is the only way to communicate with special needs.

This is absolutely not true; I do it several times for every cruise we take and RCL even lists the telephone number under the category Accessibility on Board; the number is (866) 592-7225 and I just finished talking to them about an hour ago on a question pertaining to dining room seatin at a small table to accomodate my scooter. No problem, she added the info to my booking and sent me an email confirmation of what she had done:)

[Cathalain]

I agree with the original poster... it really kind of bothers me that RCCL isn't that 'accessible' by phone, to be honest. I received the same response - deal with us through Email, we don't have time to talk to you.

 

Makes me wonder if this upcoming cruise of ours is really going to go all that smoothly... :eek:

[vickila]

I just do not understand the OPs original complaint about not being able to talk to a human - that email is the only way to communicate with special needs.

This is absolutely not true; I do it several times for every cruise we take and RCL even lists the telephone number under the category Accessibility on Board; the number is (866) 592-7225 and I just finished talking to them about an hour ago on a question pertaining to dining room seatin at a small table to accomodate my scooter. No problem, she added the info to my booking and sent me an email confirmation of what she had done:)

 

I too was told to e-mail x dept. regarding excursions. I was told to list those I was interested in. Just received an e-mail back from them asking questions of my mobility, steps, etc., dimensions of equipment, weight of equipment and myself, and whether anyone was traveling with me to help. Hopefully they will respond with possible accessible tours for Canada/NE. Cruise is on Celebrity -- started early as date is Sept. Trying it their way -- patience is a virtue! Vicki

[vickila]

I too was told to e-mail x dept. regarding excursions. I was told to list those I was interested in. Just received an e-mail back from them asking questions of my mobility, steps, etc., dimensions of equipment, weight of equipment and myself, and whether anyone was traveling with me to help. Hopefully they will respond with possible accessible tours for Canada/NE. Cruise is on Celebrity -- started early as date is Sept. Trying it their way -- patience is a virtue! Vicki

Pleasantly surprised -- within a week got detailed information from RC -- lots of particulars. Will be interesting to see if it works out well after booking. Vicki:)

[kyriecat]

Pleasantly surprised -- within a week got detailed information from RC -- lots of particulars. Will be interesting to see if it works out well after booking. Vicki:)

Good luck. They were great for me with the emails and excursion list. The problem came with getting onboard and finding out that out of 3 booked excursions that were supposed to be wheelchair accessible, my mom could only go on one of them.

[TrinaP1204]

Glad to see I am not the only one who has this "complaint". I am just going by what I am told. I call. They say email. Not much else I can do about that.