Art auction

[BlueC5Kitten]

 

Not only is the "excitement" of the auction a draw for some, but the entire appraisal issue. IMO there is nothing more stupid and obviously self serving then providing appraisals with dollar amounts on them. An appraisal IMO should be free, clearly describing the item. No need for dollar amount.

 

Even jewelry appraisals are ridiculous. There is no point is providing a dollar amount. It is meaningless. The only thing that matters is what you can buy the item for.

 

I like the Fanch piece, the Bellet, not so much...as a matter of fact, I think I have them both somewhere, as well. :o

 

As for appraisals, if they should be given free, then what's the purpose of having a licensed and registered appraiser? I mean, think about all the things you have appraised...house, car, education, life...why not jewelry or art? Do you not think that fair market value should be assessed regularly for these items?

 

At the very minimum, the art and jewelry can be insured for an appraised value...like a house...and insured.

[glrounds]

Here's a good article on art auctions at sea:

 

Link to article

 

That article SAYS IT ALL ! !

Kind of amazed that Carnival lets this looting of its customers go on. :(

[Rowan555]

I like the Fanch piece, the Bellet, not so much...as a matter of fact, I think I have them both somewhere, as well. :o

 

As for appraisals, if they should be given free, then what's the purpose of having a licensed and registered appraiser? I mean, think about all the things you have appraised...house, car, education, life...why not jewelry or art? Do you not think that fair market value should be assessed regularly for these items?

 

At the very minimum, the art and jewelry can be insured for an appraised value...like a house...and insured.

 

I bought a huge Fanch on our last cruise - we had some trouble getting it framed at Michael's (they had to special order an oversized mat, then they scratched the mat and hoped we wouldn't notice) so it's not yet on my wall. I'll take a photo when I finally get it home and hung. I wish I had one of those free ones like you received - I did get a small Fanch for free once, but I lost it along the way. I adore almost all of his paintings, and I've been wanting a big one for years. I'm thrilled that I got it (it was a "take off" for $200) and will never regret that purchase. I don't expect to ever sell it, so it's "worth" is in the enjoyment it will bring me hanging on the wall. Well worth the $400 including framing.

[djwood24]

I bought a huge Fanch on our last cruise - we had some trouble getting it framed at Michael's (they had to special order an oversized mat, then they scratched the mat and hoped we wouldn't notice) so it's not yet on my wall. I'll take a photo when I finally get it home and hung. I wish I had one of those free ones like you received - I did get a small Fanch for free once, but I lost it along the way. I adore almost all of his paintings, and I've been wanting a big one for years. I'm thrilled that I got it (it was a "take off" for $200) and will never regret that purchase. I don't expect to ever sell it, so it's "worth" is in the enjoyment it will bring me hanging on the wall. Well worth the $400 including framing.

 

I also have a few of works from Fanch and love both.

We paid for the frames and shipping otherwise they would still be in tubes.

I have purchased approx $6,000 worth of "art" throughout my home which also includes Disney Art.

It probably will never get higher in "value' than I paid but so what.

We enjoy them and that is why we bought them.

As for all the people who just show up for the free booze that is cool but please do not look down on those who do enjoy the art auction.

easy to criticize things we see others do that you do not agree with

but harder to just let others do what they wish without saying anything

[ccartman2]

That article SAYS IT ALL ! !

 

Kind of amazed that Carnival lets this looting of its customers go on. :(

 

 

Yeah, actually it does. If you are willing to fork over that kind of jack in at sea auction, then yeah, you are probably going to be taken to the cleaners. If you think you are making an investment, then yeah you are probably not going to be happy.

 

Now if you drop $50 or $100 on a piece you really like, fine, as long as you don't expect to be able to sell it for $1000. I've bought a couple pieces myself and I'm glad that I have them and I have no intention of reselling them. Therefore, I don't feel like I got ripped off, especially since I've never found the one piece for sale at any other place. On the other side of the coin, my wife and I loved the Martini Pictures on the Glory, but they were insane what they were asking for them. Therefore, there are zero hanging in our house.

 

So I say, go and have fun if that is what you like, but be careful if you choose to buy something. Like another poster said, there may be deals, but leave those to the experts and don't expect to reap windfall profits when you get back from the boat with the sale of your art.

 

One other note when researching Park West is that one of the groups behind a lot of the negative press for Park West is the fineartregistry. Funny thing is they have listings to sell art themselves so I think they would have a hard time qualifying for the status of objective observer.

[Sdallnct]

 

At the very minimum, the art and jewelry can be insured for an appraised value...like a house...and insured.

 

Nope I don't.

 

You do not and should not insure your house for an "appraised" amount. You insure it for what it would cost to rebuild your house. Big difference.

 

Same with jewelry. Follow me on this;

 

You go to a jewelry and buy a ring for $2,000. He turns around and gives you and appraisal for $3,000. What the heck does that mean? Does that mean the ring he just sold you for $2,000 he would now give you $3,000 for? For course not. Does that mean if you drove across town to another jeweler they would give you $3,000 for it? Of course not. It is a meaningless, useless number.

 

All you really need is the exact description of the item. Then when time to replace it because of loss or stolen, you pay for what it cost. And if you are going through your insurance company, they will probably find the same exact thing for $1,500 with all their buying power!!

 

And don't say "well it was on sale when I bought it" or "I got a really good deal". It would be easier to say when a jeweler DIDN'T have a sale or offer a good deal then when they did.

 

A more practice approach and cost you less on insurance is to just take your item to a jeweler and ask them, "I want to buy this exact ring for my sister, if you will make me a good deal. What will it cost?" Insure it for that amount.

[Sdallnct]

Precisely my arguement. Its the hype associated with the phony appraisals that "sucks" the uninformed into bidding up these art pieces.

Great pics, by the way. I particularly like the lady in the red dress. I'm sure you derive much enjoyment from them, especially in view of the PRICE. :D

 

But that is no different than your local jeweler or any place else.

 

Again, lets be clear; Park West (or whoever it is) is trying to do one thing, make money. I see this as no different then a used car dealer or the guy that ties to sell me a plasma tv. Or even Carnival Cruise lines who takes 7.8 MILLION photos of me in hopes I'll buy 8 of them in a $100 package, or gets me in their Super Club in hopes I'll buy 3 bottles of wine.

 

As long as you go in with the right attitude, I see nothing wrong with it.

[HiiPocket]

If you are interested in a piece, go to the Internet Cafe and go online to get a price on ebay or another valid site and then negotiate hard. Play your cards right and you can get what you want cheap.

 

I also agree, do not buy for the investment, buy because you like it and will enjoy hanging it without any regrets.

 

Knowing abit about art, we have found some very good buys, but also we have seen people pay WAY too much.

[Sdallnct]

Precisely my arguement. Its the hype associated with the phony appraisals that "sucks" the uninformed into bidding up these art pieces.

Great pics, by the way. I particularly like the lady in the red dress. I'm sure you derive much enjoyment from them, especially in view of the PRICE. :D

 

That article SAYS IT ALL ! !

Kind of amazed that Carnival lets this looting of its customers go on. :(

 

And how would that be any different than the looting Carnival does itself? On board photos, wine prices, excursions that cost double what you can get if you book on your own.

 

I'm not defending anything or anyone. I'm saying a person should be careful with ANY purchase. Including the Cruise itself!! Know what you are getting and have the correct frame of mind.

[Sdallnct]

If you are interested in a piece, go to the Internet Cafe and go online to get a price on ebay or another valid site and then negotiate hard. Play your cards right and you can get what you want cheap.

 

I also agree, do not buy for the investment, buy because you like it and will enjoy hanging it without any regrets.

 

Knowing abit about art, we have found some very good buys, but also we have seen people pay WAY too much.

 

Excellent advise. My favorite piece of art, is also hanging in my bar. I bought form a shop in New Orleans. It is a painting of the oldest bar in Louisiana. And I love it.

 

I had been working in NOLA for several months and when I first eyed it, I was quoted nearly $600. It is a biggish piece and nice frame. Long story short I ended up meeting shop owner who was a friend of the artist. I looked at similar pieces, at other shops/other artist and even surfed ebay and such for similar items. But this was my favorite. By far. I told myself if I could get it for $300 I would buy it. I ended up getting for $150!!! Woot. Heck the frame/mat and glass is worth that! It matches my decor and looks wonderful.

 

It is worth $150? To me it is. Could I even sell it for $150? Have no idea. Don't care.

[cruisedirect2]

My husband and I went to the art auction for something to do since we had enough of the sun. My husband found one piece he liked I think we paid $60 for it and I won a piece in the raffle. We actually ended up with 2 pictures we really liked. We did not get any appraisals and they did not keep pushing us once we said no. We did have one picture framed and one not because my husband thought the framing was too high priced. Knowing better I kept my mouth closed, I wasn't going to argue with him. Even going to Michaels 1/2 off sale when we received the picture the framing was about $350, twice what we paid on the ship. The pictures were the same size. My husband will listen to me next time. Did we buy the art as an investment, NO. We bought because we enjoyed the pictures and after 10 years of marriage we finally have art on the walls. I say go once just to see what it's all about, go without looking for investments. Go looking to have a little fun (vacation) and maybe something will catch your eye. A couple of free glasses of champage, or sparkling wine is good also. The framing/matting that Park West did was also very nice, well worth the price we paid.

[bostonlager]

If you are looking to buy one of the expensive pieces as an investment, you will probably be disappointed, but if you are buying something you like. you can get a decent deal if you don't buy all the extra insurance and appraisals they try to sell you.

 

A couple of years back, my wife and I had been looking for a Kinkade piece that my parents liked. Went to the Kinkade gallery here in town and checked prices online. We happened to see the same piece on our early December cruise on the Carnival Conquest for less money with a nicer frame. We had it shipped directly to my parents and it got there a couple of days before Christmas. I don't think we got the "deal of the century", but it certainly wasn't a rip off.

 

Bottom line: You aren't going to make money buying this stuff as an investment, but it you find something you like, have some idea of what the value of the piece is, and don't buy all the "extras," you can get a decent price.

 

Plus, the alcohol is free, and its something to do on a rainy day at sea.

[bostonlager]

My husband and I went to the art auction for something to do since we had enough of the sun. My husband found one piece he liked I think we paid $60 for it and I won a piece in the raffle. We actually ended up with 2 pictures we really liked. We did not get any appraisals and they did not keep pushing us once we said no. We did have one picture framed and one not because my husband thought the framing was too high priced. Knowing better I kept my mouth closed, I wasn't going to argue with him. Even going to Michaels 1/2 off sale when we received the picture the framing was about $350, twice what we paid on the ship. The pictures were the same size. My husband will listen to me next time. Did we buy the art as an investment, NO. We bought because we enjoyed the pictures and after 10 years of marriage we finally have art on the walls. I say go once just to see what it's all about, go without looking for investments. Go looking to have a little fun (vacation) and maybe something will catch your eye. A couple of free glasses of champage, or sparkling wine is good also. The framing/matting that Park West did was also very nice, well worth the price we paid.

 

I think a lot of people have no concept of how expensive framing can be. It can cost hundreds of dollars for even the most basic frame job at a frame shop (just for fun, go look at the price of cheap frames in Walmart sometime- those can run $100- and that's for the frame alone). Even if you go to "posters.com" and get a frame for a small poster, it will run $150+.

 

So if you buy a piece you like onboard, with a nice frame on board for less than $500, you are unlikely to get "ripped off."

 

Also, as I recall, you don't pay sales tax when you buy at Sea, which is something you'll have to pay if you buy locally.

[mda]

had lawsuit going vs park west galleries.they billed me for 15,000 dollars worth of poster art.refused delivery,was willing to take credit hit,but in the end they gave up.if u really want to know whats goin on read FINEARTSREGISTRY.COM.im glad that no one posting here got ripped off

[Sdallnct]

had lawsuit going vs park west galleries.they billed me for 15,000 dollars worth of poster art.refused delivery,was willing to take credit hit,but in the end they gave up.if u really want to know whats goin on read FINEARTSREGISTRY.COM.im glad that no one posting here got ripped off

 

Seriously? What the heck....the article on the opening page...he's a Dr? Jeez, I'd never go to him as a Dr.....he admitted to knowing nothing and yet still bought something for $36,000....unbelievable. He admitted not knowing anything, has a friend who is a serious art collector that he could have talked and didn't, and he still bought it for $36,000....wow....

 

The 2nd one I ready says "after getting home she did research"...again...if you had concerns, why would you not research BEFORE purchasing????

 

And the 3rd one I read is basically, "my dad is old and he drank to much". Oooook.....

 

I feel very sorry for all of them. I'm hoping things worked out for them. But in all three cases, all they had to do was say "no". Or keep on walking.

[rsinj]

Also, as I recall, you don't pay sales tax when you buy at Sea, which is something you'll have to pay if you buy locally.

 

And as I recall, the buyer pays a 15% premium on top of the hammer price. You know any place locally charging a 15% markup on the posted price, or 15% sales tax?

 

Howard

[rsinj]

There are the occasional unique (one of a kind) pieces that can be found onboard that have the possibility of increasing in value,

 

There are no one of a kinds onboard.

 

Howard

[Rowan555]

There are no one of a kinds onboard.

 

Howard

 

Park West sells "unique variations" which they note are similar to one of a kinds, but not quite. Take that for what it's worth.

[rsinj]

Park West sells "unique variations" which they note are similar to one of a kinds, but not quite. Take that for what it's worth.

 

They do not sell "one of a kinds".

 

If they did, there would not be a need to come up with a new term to legally protect themselves.

 

If you asked a curator about the value of a "unique variation" what do you suppose the response would be? I'd guess something along the lines of uncontrolled laughter.

 

Howard

[Sdallnct]

Seriously, why would anyone go on a cruise, go on vacation and buy "investment art"? What would possess a person to do such a thing? Do these people go to Wal-mart to get investment grade diamonds after they pick up some diapers and tomatoes?

 

It simply makes no sense to me. Your on vacation!

[Rowan555]

They do not sell "one of a kinds".

 

If they did, there would not be a need to come up with a new term to legally protect themselves.

 

If you asked a curator about the value of a "unique variation" what do you suppose the response would be? I'd guess something along the lines of uncontrolled laughter.

 

Howard

 

And who CARES what the curator would say or do? On my last cruise there were a few people who spent about $12,000 each on some Peter Max "unique variations" and some other higher end works. They were VERY pleased with their purchases, and they obviously had the money to blow on it, so good for them. I spent only about $400, but I was also thrilled with the items I purchased - a few pieces for our living room, some animation art for the kids, and one piece I had wanted for a while for sentimental reasons. I couldn't have purchased a few of them anywhere else (I think I could get the animation works online, but not the others), and I'm glad I attended the auctions and bought what I did. If a curator laughed at me for doing so, I'd kick him in the balls and laugh right back at him - because his opinion is meaningless to me, and most others who purchase art on their cruises. We buy it to hang it on the wall and enjoy it, and that's all that matters. Frankly, I'd much rather come home with some beautiful artwork than a diamond ring or pricey watch - THAT is something I personally find silly and trivial - but others enjoy it, and good for them if they have the money and it makes them happy.

[CorvetteLady]

They do sell originals because we bought one. It is an acrylic by Dimitriv Polak. I love it and I wouldn't mind have another painting of his. We also have some Peter Max's mixed media. They hang on the wall and we love them. Will they increase in value? Maybe, but we are not planning on selling them anytime in the near future.

 

Park West now has a guarantee that you can return your art work within 60 days, less the buyers premium. We bought some art on the Splendor and then changed our minds, called them and got our money back, less the buyers premium. Didn't give us a hard time but it did take about 2 months for the refund to show on our credit card because we had bought it with our sail and sign card so the refund had to go through Carnival.

 

Some of the dealers are a little pushy but a firm no always works. They really push the Dali's as a great investment but I think they are way overpriced for what they are but that is JMHO. We have gotten many of the free seriographs and have framed several and enjoy them. We got some really great carry off deals on the NCL Spirit, they were selling some they just got that were framed without a scratch on them for less then we would have paid for just the frames.

[CAROLG903]

On the Conquest in February I spied a print of Muhammed Ali with the Beatles. My son is a HUGE Beatles fan & I thought it would be perfect for him....

Went to the Art gallery with my BFF, she'd had a glass of wine or two...

The gracious gallery host knew the print we were discussing and quickly pulled it up on her laptop...

She turned the laptop toward me...BFF couldn't see it...and said, "that print is one of series, it's seventy eight ninety five.

I politely thanked her, told her I would discuss it with my husband, and we left.

On the way out, BFF said, why didn't you snap that up, it was less than eighty dollars!

.....I had to explain there was no decimal in $7895!....:eek:

lol, I won't be visiting any more art galleries! :p

[Sdallnct]

On the Conquest in February I spied a print of Muhammed Ali with the Beatles. My son is a HUGE Beatles fan & I thought it would be perfect for him....

Went to the Art gallery with my BFF, she'd had a glass of wine or two...

The gracious gallery host knew the print we were discussing and quickly pulled it up on her laptop...

She turned the laptop toward me...BFF couldn't see it...and said, "that print is one of series, it's seventy eight ninety five.

I politely thanked her, told her I would discuss it with my husband, and we left.

On the way out, BFF said, why didn't you snap that up, it was less than eighty dollars!

.....I had to explain there was no decimal in $7895!....:eek:

lol, I won't be visiting any more art galleries! :p

 

But how could you possibly resist??? It was series!!! You got champaign! There was all the "excitement"!!! How could you possibly just say "thank you" and walk on!!! :p

[CAROLG903]

I'm just very, very strong...and my bank account isn't! lol