Daily Mass

[sloopsailor]

I'm not trying to insist that Catholics are more important than others.

I do take my faith seriously, though.

Evidently, much more seriously than Celebrity does.

 

Really? Why should Celebrity take it more seriously? Do you go to church to enjoy some vacation time? No, that would be ridiculous. Then why do you expect a cruise line to accomodate your specific religous dependencies? Just like your church isn't trying to be a vacation destination, neither does Celebrity have an obligation to be a spiritual center. Maybe it's your religion that doesn't take the benefits of vacation time seriously by expecting you to drop whatever fun you might be having to seek out a "required" service. Perhaps they fear they would lose their influence over their members by encouraging them to enjoy living instead of demanding that they focus on preparing for death instead?

[FinelyCruising]

I'm not trying to insist that Catholics are more important than others.

I do take my faith seriously, though.

Evidently, much more seriously than Celebrity does.

 

Yes, and I am not certain that Celebrity should try to align themselves as a church for any faith if it is not working for them. I think it is necessary to forgive them for admitting the truth that it is not working for them and allow them to go in peace.

[usha]

Yes, and I am not certain that Celebrity should try to align themselves as a church for any faith if it is not working for them. I think it is necessary to forgive them for admitting the truth that it is not working for them and allow them to go in peace.

Does Celebrity have your home & work phone #s, just in case they need any further guidance on any other important issues?:rolleyes:

[raudacruise]

It is my understanding that Catholics believe that their religion is the only true religion. In other words, that any other faith is either mistaken, heresy, a fake or even, in some cases, deviltry.

That doesn't mean that individual Catholics believe that they, as human persons, are more important than others. It just means that it can be very difficult for them to see that it is favoritism to single out their faith for support when other faiths are not supported.

 

If the "other faiths" are not "valid" then there is no need to provide for them.

 

My brother has this approach to other faiths, although he is not Catholic. It's just his belief that his way is the only correct way and that others can be ignored or discounted, being not "of the Lord."

 

I'm doing my best to understand my Catholic friends and they are doing the best they can to understand my need for "heresy."

 

Your understanding is 100% wrong. Catholic teachings acknowledges other faiths. Of course Catholics consider their faith the best, just like they consider Notre Dame to be the best football team.

 

But it doesn't mean they dinegreate other religions, in fact quite the opposite. Doesn't mean there aren't those that have a "better than thou" attitude - including some radical clergy members. Tell me a religion that isn't like that.

 

Take a course in comparitive religions some time. You'll be amazed at how many similiarities there are vs. differences.

[FinelyCruising]

If you are referring to me, please cite where I have ever been discriminatory to Catholics and only Catholics. I am arguing for equal services for all people based on their particular beliefs. That is the exact opposite of discrimination as well as the exact opposite of Celebrity's past practice of catering to one specific religion which is the exact definition of discrimination.

 

Don't get too caught up with this. He only stays in Aqua Class.

[Karynanne]

It is my understanding that Catholics believe that their religion is the only true religion. In other words, that any other faith is either mistaken, heresy, a fake or even, in some cases, deviltry.

That doesn't mean that individual Catholics believe that they, as human persons, are more important than others. It just means that it can be very difficult for them to see that it is favoritism to single out their faith for support when other faiths are not supported.

 

If the "other faiths" are not "valid" then there is no need to provide for them.

My brother has this approach to other faiths, although he is not Catholic. It's just his belief that his way is the only correct way and that others can be ignored or discounted, being not "of the Lord."

 

I'm doing my best to understand my Catholic friends and they are doing the best they can to understand my need for "heresy."

 

 

Aren't Jews considered the "Chosen Ones"? We need a fair shake in this discussion.

[fgc15527]

My Catholic friends always told me that they get a dispensation when on vacation. :)

[lysolqn]

Does Celebrity have your home & work phone #s, just in case they need any further guidance on any other important issues?:rolleyes:

 

As posted in a related thread, if hautiness and arrogance are not already included amongst the seven deadly sins, they sure ought to be.

[contom]

Your understanding is 100% wrong. Catholic teachings acknowledges other faiths. Of course Catholics consider their faith the best, just like they consider Notre Dame to be the best football team.

 

But it doesn't mean they dinegreate other religions, in fact quite the opposite. Doesn't mean there aren't those that have a "better than thou" attitude - including some radical clergy members. Tell me a religion that isn't like that.

 

Take a course in comparitive religions some time. You'll be amazed at how many similiarities there are vs. differences.

In addition, I do not believe one of us Catholics on here knocked any other religion, nor would we be upset if other clergy were provided to serve the other beliefs. Why all of the hostility, because we put our faith ahead of our material values? Our best recourse would be to speak with our wallets, and book any future cruises not with Celebrity, but with the cruise lines that will support our spiritual needs while on vacation. Vacation is about being refreshed body, soul and mind. That is the problem with the world today, the liberals have taken away the rights of many of us, with their entitlement attitude. If it does not support what they want, then no one should have it. The problem is that these folks speak out of ignorance and have no clue what we actually do believe, nor have any understanding about the basis of our faith.:mad:

[lifevicarious]

In addition, I do not believe one of us Catholics on here knocked any other religion, nor would we be upset if other clergy were provided to serve the other beliefs. Why all of the hostility, because we put our faith ahead of our material values? Our best recourse would be to speak with our wallets, and book any future cruises not with Celebrity, but with the cruise lines that will support our spiritual needs while on vacation. Vacation is about being refreshed body, soul and mind. That is the problem with the world today, the liberals have taken away the rights of many of us, with their entitlement attitude. If it does not support what they want, then no one should have it. The problem is that these folks speak out of ignorance and have no clue what we actually do believe, nor have any understanding about the basis of our faith.:mad:

 

You ask about hostility and then you proceed to blame the problem in the world today on liberals??:eek: Once again proof that the most bigoted people are the ones that claim to follow God. I don't recall anyone on these threads treating anyone with disrespect aside from Catholics and presumably, based on your thread above, conservatives. But you're right, the problem in the world is most certainly the fault of liberals. :rolleyes:

 

And how is it liberals feel they are entitled? Isn't it the Catholics here arguing they are entitled to have a member of their faith on each and every cruise yet make everyone else pay for it while also not providing a member of any other religion?

[elvnga]

Following your example of quoting the dictionary,

 

"Significant" - important, of consequence;

 

"Minority" - a smaller party or group; a group differing in race, religion or ethnic population from the majority of a population.

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that Catholics comprise the only "significant minority" of passengers on cruise ships and therefore are somehow entitled to have their religious needs accommodated by the cruise line, whereas the religious needs of those you deem less "significant" can be disregarded? If that's not what you are suggesting (and I sincerely hope it is not), then surely you can see how the cruise line finds itself in the position of having to provide for all or provide for none. Rather than becoming a floating religious retreat, it has decided to provide for none. At least that way everyone can be equally offended if they choose.

 

 

The phrase significant minority is commonly understood to mean a portion of the whole that is less than the majority (<50%) but more common than rare (ie, they are in double digits). I never stated or implied that Roman Catholics are more important. My argument is that portion of people who take part in the services provided by the priest is similar to the portion of passengers who avail themselves of other enrichment activities that are included in the cost of the cruise. Those activities often cost the cruiseline the cost of the the cabin as well pay and transportation for the people leading the activity. The priest only gets the cabin and food. They also tip the staff like the rest of us and they often tip any crew that assist them setting up for the mass. They spend money on tours and in the bars and so they are more like passengers than crew in many ways. They are allowed to make one collection each cruise and that money goes to the organization they belong to that organizes the schedule and credentials them for the cruiseline.

 

I can accept Celebrity ceasing the inclusion of a priest if they feel the level of interest or return does not warrant the continuation of the program. I would be dissapointed, but I would understand.

 

What I am having such a hard time accepting is the idea that a private enterprise should pressured to either provide religious leaders from "all" religions or none. Celebrity does not have a responsibility to provide a priest (beyond the claim they make on their website) but doing so does not impart a moral or legal obligation to make an effort to provide a minister for the religion of every passenger on the ship. Including one religion does not exclude others. It simply adds to the cruise experience for some. This does not subtract from anyone's experience unless they choose to feel offended. Other ministers and rabbis have been included by Celebrity, but not weekly, which is consistent with the needs of the followers of those religions.

 

For the record, Catholics do not get a blanket dispensation for vacation. We must make an honest effort to attend mass, but we are not prohibited from traveling to parts of the world without access to a church.

[lifevicarious]

What I am having such a hard time accepting is the idea that a private enterprise should pressured to either provide religious leaders from "all" religions or none. Celebrity does not have a responsibility to provide a priest (beyond the claim they make on their website) but doing so does not impart a moral or legal obligation to make an effort to provide a minister for the religion of every passenger on the ship.

 

Totally agree. Yet it's odd that I never heard Catholics complaining until they had to go without.

 

Including one religion does not exclude others. It simply adds to the cruise experience for some. This does not subtract from anyone's experience unless they choose to feel offended. Other ministers and rabbis have been included by Celebrity, but not weekly, which is consistent with the needs of the followers of those religions.

 

Based on the above I assume you would be fine with a Protestant priest on every cruise as opposed to a Catholic one then since you stated that it does not subtract from anyone's experience. I also assume that you know about all other religions as you seem to be an expert on the needs of the followers of those religions.

[FinelyCruising]

Just to settle it down, let's say Celebrity has faced these questions over and over again, and have now opted out of the conflict by taking the wind out of the sails of those who have asked, demanded or insisted on representation for what ever their own centered reasons. This has been occurring over time with a variety of highly personal and highly individualized programs.

 

I don't necessarily agree that it has to do with cost cutting measures as much I believe it has to do with eliminating associations that detract from a very neutral and basic vacation platform.

[davestic]

What's all the fuss about mass?

 

On every cruise/vacation I've ever taken my mass has increased just fine...priest or no priest. :D

[lifevicarious]

Just to settle it down, let's say Celebrity has faced these questions over and over again, and have now opted out of the conflict by taking the wind out of the sails of those who have asked, demanded or insisted on representation for what ever their own centered reasons. This has been occurring over time with a variety of highly personal and highly individualized programs.

 

I don't necessarily agree that it has to do with cost cutting measures as much I believe it has to do with eliminating associations that detract from a very neutral and basic vacation platform.

 

That makes a lot of sense! :)

[hajekfam]

Really? Why should Celebrity take it more seriously? Do you go to church to enjoy some vacation time? No, that would be ridiculous. Then why do you expect a cruise line to accomodate your specific religous dependencies? Just like your church isn't trying to be a vacation destination, neither does Celebrity have an obligation to be a spiritual center. Maybe it's your religion that doesn't take the benefits of vacation time seriously by expecting you to drop whatever fun you might be having to seek out a "required" service. Perhaps they fear they would lose their influence over their members by encouraging them to enjoy living instead of demanding that they focus on preparing for death instead?

I am not getting into the debate as to whether or not Celebrity should have a priest onboard - the cruiseline is a company and can make their own rules. However, when a cruiseline advertises that there will be a priest onboard and people book with that expectation, changing the rules in midstream is unfair. If they want to drop priests then they should do it for the new cruise year when the itineraries are announced in a couple of months. That way, people who book cruises early to take advantage of "opening prices" and prime cabin location will be booking under the new policy - leaving those that booked under the old policy free to take their cruise as they expected.

And if you say that people who can cancel without penalty should cancel and book with another line that does offer priest to say Mass, well they probably won't be able to book a comparable cruise in their chosen cabin location for the same price that they paid when they booked their Celebrity cruise - at this point in time.

[Shirley and Les]

That makes a lot of sense! :)

The view that it is a cost-cutting measure makes a lot more cents. (and $$$'s) ;)

[Shirley and Les]

Quite frankly, religion bores me and that is why I am a non practicing Catholic....

Out of curiosity, would a non-practicing athiest go to Mass on a cruise ship???

[Karynanne]

out of curiosity, would a non-practicing athiest go to mass on a cruise ship???

 

lol.

[raudacruise]

Quite frankly, religion bores me and that is why I am a non practicing Catholic. If Celebrity doesn't cater enough to you, HAL still has masses, for now. One cruise line cuts the rest will soon follow. I'm done with religious threads!

 

 

Guess what, so am I (2-7th grades in Catholic school). I've only tried to keep the facts straight. Tolerance of others beliefs is important to me. Guess I learned something while I was there.

 

You must have missed that class.

[FinelyCruising]

Out of curiosity, would a non-practicing athiest go to Mass on a cruise ship???

 

I think this is a bugled question. Non-practicing may mean not going to church while believing in a God.

 

Atheism is something totally different.

[TMLAalum]

Of course Catholics consider their faith the best, just like they consider Notre Dame to be the best football team.

 

I hope you meant this "tongue in cheek". I know a lot more of us Catholics from your and my home state who are BUCKEYE fans first and always!

[TMLAalum]

Yes, I am disappointed that priests will no longer be aboard (even though the 2010 brochure that came in Thursday's mail states they are). Knowing that my Sabbath Mass obligation could be easily met took away the difficulty of finding a church and Mass that practicing Catholics face when traveling.

 

However, we Catholics have 2 options: find a Mass if we are in port on a Saturday or Sunday or, if at sea, ask for a dispensation to attend Mass.

 

The internet makes it very easy to find Catholic Churches and Mass times. For our upcoming cruise, we will be able to attend Mass in Brugges and St. Petersburg in the event that Celebrity cannot find a local priest to come aboard to celebrate Mass (which, BTW, I appreciate Celebrity offering to do) or there isn't a vacationing priest aboard.

[Can'tstopcruising]

Yes, I am disappointed that priests will no longer be aboard (even though the 2010 brochure that came in Thursday's mail states they are). Knowing that my Sabbath Mass obligation could be easily met took away the difficulty of finding a church and Mass that practicing Catholics face when traveling.

 

However, we Catholics have 2 options: find a Mass if we are in port on a Saturday or Sunday or, if at sea, ask for a dispensation to attend Mass.

 

The internet makes it very easy to find Catholic Churches and Mass times. For our upcoming cruise, we will be able to attend Mass in Brugges and St. Petersburg in the event that Celebrity cannot find a local priest to come aboard to celebrate Mass (which, BTW, I appreciate Celebrity offering to do) or there isn't a vacationing priest aboard.

 

Wouldn't it be more interesting to attend mass in Brugges & St. Petersburg than on the ship? It's an opportunity to mingle with the locals.

[lysolqn]

But, evidently, no one has quite been able to keep up with you.:cool:

 

You're not only managing quite well but exceeding all expectations.