Taking kids out of school.....

[WhansaMi]

Can we "survive" it? Certainly. Will most (wish I could say "all") teachers help a child who has been out catch up regardless of the reason, since in neither situation is it the child's decision to be absent? Certainly -- it may be the parent's decision, but it's the child who will pay the price for it.

 

However, it's a fact that this kind of remediation, reteaching, etc. to help a child catch up takes time -- and it's not our planning time during school and after school, because that's when we plan for the entire class/group. Helping that absent child takes personal time, evening time, lunch time, family time, early morning time. You see, it's not just about copying a bunch of worksheets and throwing them at the student, if you really want them to learn it.

 

I have no problem spending the time to do this when a child needs to make up absences, because the only reason I teach is to help every one of my students learn what they need to know -- but teachers are only human and it's disappointing to know that parents decided to impose that extra burden on their child and the teacher INTENTIONALLY. Illness is unintentional, and that's one reason teachers (and school districts) make a distinction in absence type.

 

Another reason, to expand on your question, is the scenario when the child who is out for a week for a family vacation in October is the same one who is out for 2 weeks in February due to flu. It can and does happen. That's 3 out of 36 school weeks, and in some districts that many combined absences would preclude promotion.

 

Ditto to what is said here.

 

Later in the thread, FabFabFour said "You can make accomodations for the things you listed but can't for a vacation? Seems you pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not. Sorry but that's not your job. "

 

Helping students remediate missed work cannot come out of classroom time. I have 24 other students who are looking to me for instruction during that 90 minute block, instead. I teach physical science: students' introduction to chemistry and physics. It isn't really possible to really cover that material in the 30 minutes before school that within my contract hours, especially since the student also is running around to seven other teacher to go over work.

 

I am willing to stay to help kids who are sick. I have stayed for two and three hour blocks, after school, so that students could complete labs, or to completely reteach the material as I did in class.

 

I am willing to do whatever it takes to help kids who are out because they are ill. This past year, I had a kid miss 14 consecutive days of school (15 is the point at which he would have been dropped from the roster or gone on homebound). He was in the hospital 8 of those days. Of *course* I worked with him, intensely, and over the next month, he was able to get caught up.

 

But, I am not willing to take my own time to do that because a kid is vacationing. It *is* my decision because (1) it is on my own time and (2) our school district disinguishes between excused and unexcused absences.

 

Of course, as we go through the material, I will save worksheets and notes for the kid who is absent, regardless of the reason why. I will answer questions, either in class, or in the time before school that is allotted for students to come to teachers for that purpose. But I am not required, nor am I willing, to take time away from planning, setting up labs, or being with *my* family to remediate students because they went on a vacation. And, yes, that is my choice to make.

[cathyoo]

Seems like the overriding theme here is not what is best for the kids... it is about saving money. The best way to save money is to take the kids to a park and go camping. Maybe a cruise is not the best choice?

 

My thoughts exactly. We didn't cruise when our children were young for that reason. Everything would have been cheaper. Amusement parks, resort hotels, etc. You do what you can afford to do. You can have lots of enjoyment and family experiences without cruising in fact you can build wonderful memories without leaving your hometown.

[FabFourLover]

Later in the thread, FabFabFour said "You can make accomodations for the things you listed but can't for a vacation? Seems you pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not. Sorry but that's not your job. "

 

Helping students remediate missed work cannot come out of classroom time. I have 24 other students who are looking to me for instruction during that 90 minute block, instead. I teach physical science: students' introduction to chemistry and physics. It isn't really possible to really cover that material in the 30 minutes before school that within my contract hours, especially since the student also is running around to seven other teacher to go over work.

 

I am willing to stay to help kids who are sick. I have stayed for two and three hour blocks, after school, so that students could complete labs, or to completely reteach the material as I did in class.

 

I am willing to do whatever it takes to help kids who are out because they are ill. This past year, I had a kid miss 14 consecutive days of school (15 is the point at which he would have been dropped from the roster or gone on homebound). He was in the hospital 8 of those days. Of *course* I worked with him, intensely, and over the next month, he was able to get caught up.

 

But, I am not willing to take my own time to do that because a kid is vacationing. It *is* my decision because (1) it is on my own time and (2) our school district disinguishes between excused and unexcused absences.

 

Of course, as we go through the material, I will save worksheets and notes for the kid who is absent, regardless of the reason why. I will answer questions, either in class, or in the time before school that is allotted for students to come to teachers for that purpose. But I am not required,nor am I willing, to take time away from planning, setting up labs, or being with *my* family to remediate students because they went on a vacation. And, yes, that is my choice to make.

 

We are actually in agreement here. It is *your* decision to help your students catch up whether from illness or vacation. What is not your decision is whether that student goes on vacation in the first place. It is not your decision what is an acceptable absence vs an unacceptable one. IMO a teacher who would say "I will help a student if he's sick but not if he's on vacation" is just not right. An absence is an absence no matter what the reason.

 

You sound like a fantastic teacher and I applaud your committment to your students but, again, it is the parents decision to take their kids out for vacation, not yours.

All you can do it your best, with 25 kids in the class, you have your hands full. It is the kids responsibility to make up the work missed and if she doesn't, well, that's not your fault. No one expects you to work 24/7. I was not putting down the teachers. Well, not the good one's anyway and you sound like a good one.

[KarenMF]

Originally Posted by KarenMF View Post

There are certain things that must be accommodated for - illness (of the student or family member - we have had students travel out of the country to see terminally ill grandparents), even special award things. But those are things we have no control over. Purposely taking a family vacation is something the parents have control over.

 

I understand that, but you didn't answer my question. You can make accomodations for the things you listed but can't for a vacation? Seems you pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not. Sorry but that's not your job.

 

You're right - it's not my job - my job is to enforce the rules made by the School Board - this is County rule, not mine!

 

Parents know that by taking their kids out of school for a week they will put that kid behind. All you need do is your job, which I am sure you do very well, and let the kids do their job...catching up. If they do, fantastic. If they don't, well, mom and dad knew the risk of taking her out of class in the first place. It's their fault if the kid doesn't catch up, not yours. You can not legislate good judgement.

 

Taking kids out of school affects my job - it gives me MORE work! It's MORE work for me to get work ready early (well I don't do that because in my school I'm not required to for an unexcused absence) and it's MORE work for me to make sure the make up work is handed in and it's MORE work for me to reteach the lesson that the child missed because they were on a cruise if they don't understand a concept.

 

When I took my DD out of school for a week she was in the 5th grade and had straight A's. Since we're in a big city with very regulated school schedules (I feel bad for good teachers here) I knew exactly when big exams and standardized tests were to be given and we did not schedule our trip during those times. DD didn't miss a beat. Her teacher did nothing extra to help her other than give her all the missed homework. I didn't expect her to do any more than that, she had 37 kids in her class. There was no way she had the time. DD did all her homework, all her missed homework and, if I remember correctly, she made a diarama (I hate those things) of the ocean to show what she saw while on her trip for extra credit. It worked out fine.

 

That's all great and nice for your kid, but that's not how it is for all kids and it's different as the kids get older too - can't do a diorama for Algebra class that's for High School credit!

[KarenMF]

A few thoughts on this whole thing, from an elementary teacher.

 

• I never argue with a parent who wants to take a child out of school for any reason -- a good working relationship is too important for the child.
  
• I do not "send work in advance" because I do not know for sure how the week will go and depending on what the students do I may have to change my lesson plans overnight.
  
• I will help the child when they get back, to the best of my ability (but some things I can't re-create -- hands on lessons, and such).
  
• Children sometimes learn wonderful things on vacation, and sometimes they spend their vacation eating soft serve ice cream and playing in the pool. Regardless of how they spend their vacation, in no scenario does what they do replace the curriculum missed during their absence. In this era of standardized testing and regimented curricula for each grade level, critical academic material may be missed, and seeing historic ruins and other cultures isn't going to replace that knowledge.
  
• Parents may want to consult with teachers before making these decisions -- it's not completely true that "the parent knows if their kid can afford to miss a week of school." Parents obviously have a good "feel" for it, but the child's teacher may have extra information you didn't know -- like Susie's math grades have improved so much because the teacher has been working with her one on one every day, or Johnny's doing great in science because this semester is all lab work and he and his partner are working well together.
  

Last, it certainly is a teacher's "job" to help all their students. But parents who say that frequently do so in a sneering, dismissing way, and I'm convinced often they have no idea what a teacher's job actually is like. That "it's your JOB" thing typically goes along with "I pay your salary" and "You can work a little harder during the year, look at all the vacation you get." :rolleyes: So just in case some of this is from lack of knowledge, two points I try to mention when it seems appropriate:

• teachers do the vast majority of their work when the students are NOT at school. Yes, really. Before school, after school, at home at night, weekends -- that's when we plan. Delivering instruction is the fun part of what we do -- the work is planning it, and we can't do that while we're teaching.
  
• in many states teachers get 0-3 days of paid "personal time" per year. All those other "days off?" The ones when the kids aren't in school like spring break, winter break, summer break? Those are unpaid -- in many places teachers receive 190 - 200 days of salary paid over 12 months.
  

I mention that not looking for a pat on the head -- I love what I do and made a conscious choice to begin doing it after 16 years in another career. I am excited to go to work every day, which many people cannot say, so I know how lucky I am.

 

However, even I sometimes get a little irked at the "tone" of the few people who sneer at teachers and and are disrespectful about what we do -- primarily because that attitude often affects their children as well, making our work that much harder.

 

 

Sorry for the length.

 

Well said Michel, but we'll change the views of some people who think we teachers have an 'easy' job with too much vacation time! :D

[nenasmum]

I am a high school teacher and have no problems at all taking my daughter - nearly 8- out of school for holidays for 2 or 3 weeks a year. She attends a bi-lingual school and the principal herself was very upfront to all parents saying that overseas holidays were supported by the school and that the kids would always learn more from the experience than from anything at school. I anticipate taking my child on holidays abroad every year until she is in her last 3 years of high school. - if I can afford it!! In my experience most kids catch up very fast and if they don't go well in one or two tests is that something that will destroy their lives? Where I teach is is the last 2 years at school that really count and I can't imagine missing out on irreperably on some foundation work in a few weeks years before those exams. I hope my currently planned Mediterranean cruise will instill in my daughter a life long passion for history she will never get from a history book.

[WhansaMi]

We are actually in agreement here. It is *your* decision to help your students catch up whether from illness or vacation. What is not your decision is whether that student goes on vacation in the first place. It is not your decision what is an acceptable absence vs an unacceptable one. IMO a teacher who would say "I will help a student if he's sick but not if he's on vacation" is just not right. An absence is an absence no matter what the reason.

 

You sound like a fantastic teacher and I applaud your committment to your students but, again, it is the parents decision to take their kids out for vacation, not yours.

All you can do it your best, with 25 kids in the class, you have your hands full. It is the kids responsibility to make up the work missed and if she doesn't, well, that's not your fault. No one expects you to work 24/7. I was not putting down the teachers. Well, not the good one's anyway and you sound like a good one.

 

 

Well, first let me thank you for the compliment. I do try to be a good teacher, and I think that, most of the time (like in many things in life), I succeed. :-)

 

But, I still have to disagree with you in the choice of words. By the fact that my district assigns vacations to the "unexcused absences" category, it then becomes up to me to decide if I think it is an acceptable enough reason to make me want to help the kids get caught up, beyond the basic standard of giving kids worksheets and/or a list of concepts we have covered.

 

Of course, it is not my decision whether or not to take the trip in the first place.

 

Here's the thing: at our back to school night, I put actual tests, from the year before, on the desks, so that parents can see what their children will be asked to learn this year. "Astounded" is the word to describe the look on most people's faces. Constructive interference? Ionic bonding? Resonant frequencies? Boyle's Law?

 

Most parents, even if they covered this material in school, have long forgotten it. Because of this, *without my help*, students tend to drop one to two letter grades, if they miss school. The more self-motivated and self-instructing kids are, the less the drop. Those kids who were already making low B's and C's inevitably go down to D's and F's, for those units.

 

This is not easy material. I work very hard to present material in a logical sequence, using the students' own backgrounds, so that they can achieve a basic understanding of the concepts. I then set up and implement, nearly every day of class, some lab or hand's-on activities that will allow them to manipulate things, and provide a kinestheic and visual representation of the the concept. Each day I start off with some sort of game or physical activity to reinforce the concepts we've learned the day before. There would be very hard for you, the parent, to replicate this process, and it is exceptionally difficult for most students to glean the same level of information from the book alone.

 

I believe classroom instruction should have value. If all we are doing is regurgitating the textbook, we teachers are of no value. I do not use the textbook as an instructional approach in the classroom at all. I request students relevant sections after our class, to reinforce the concepts and to improve their reading comprehension. Of course, some do, some don't, and I have to plan for that as well.

 

When parents cavalierly take their children out of school, I get the sense that they do not understand the value of what I do. If parents truly believe that their child can get the same education from the textbook... then either they don't have any understanding of what I do, or they do not value me as a professional. Either way, it is a little insulting.

 

Of course, not all parents are like that. Some come to me, well, in advance, apologizing that they are going to impact my class. Many of them I genuinely like. I almost always like the kids (I'm not going to lie... I have usually 1-3 out of 125 students each year that I really am not fond of). But, after years of trying very hard to put together packages, setting up afterschool times for remediation and the like, I have made a policy decision that I will not do that for vacationing kids. Personalities doesn't enter into it. I will keep a folder for the work, I will answer questions, and the parents -- and sadly, more likely, the kids -- have to pay the consequences for this decision.

 

I hope, in part, to make it clear to parents that my role is not simply to deliver a message from the book, to make it clear that there is *instructional* value to being in my classroom. I believe that, in some cases, it is working. I've been told that "we were going to leave last week, but decided not to 'cos I told my mom I needed to be here".

[sprockie]

Life is very short. Kids grow up way too fast. It seems like such a short time before they won't want to go with us, then they are up and gone on their own.

We have taken a family vacation every year in January or February during school time and will continue as long as we possibly can. These vacations are so precious to us that absolutely nothing is more important.

[klmorg]

We took our kids out of school for vacations when they were young... always with the full support of the school & their teachers. We were really lucky, I suppose. DisneyWorld in October was perfect!

[FabFourLover]

I think, basically, we're all in agreement here. Teachers work HARD and should not be expected to work even harder because we decide to take our kid out of school for a week's vacation. And, you are right, each situation is different. What works for one kid will not work for another. What is acceptable in one school district or classroom is not want is acceptable in another. I suppose it goes back to knowing your child, knowing his teacher, knowing your school district and trying to make the best decision possible. Again, that decision will work for one kid and not another. So is life!

 

Also, I never did it when my DD was in middle school or high school. She went to Central High School here in Philadelphia which is a very tough school. Missing even one day put even the best students significantly behind. I only did it once and that was in grade school. Again, you have to know your kid and your school.

[marshhawk]

I think traveling is one of the best educational experiences a child can have. Get the assignments that they would be missing from the teachers, and spend some time with them everyday doing the work. Maybe during docking, or an hour before dinner.

These are the "'wonder" years, make them wonderful. They will learn about different cultures, foods, and people. They will be able to see a professional show, they learn how to meet new people. They learn behavioral skills. I traveled as a child through Europe with my folks, and I'm an ex teacher. The more time you spend as a family sharing educational experiences the better the memories are. Happy Sailing!:)

[cathyoo]

I think traveling is one of the best educational experiences a child can have. Get the assignments that they would be missing from the teachers, and spend some time with them everyday doing the work. Maybe during docking, or an hour before dinner.

These are the "'wonder" years, make them wonderful. They will learn about different cultures, foods, and people. They will be able to see a professional show, they learn how to meet new people. They learn behavioral skills. I traveled as a child through Europe with my folks, and I'm an ex teacher. The more time you spend as a family sharing educational experiences the better the memories are. Happy Sailing!:)

 

I agree with all of that but it does not have to interfere with your school schedule. All of those experiences can be shared during school holidays and the many breaks.

[cathyoo]

I think, basically, we're all in agreement here. Teachers work HARD and should not be expected to work even harder because we decide to take our kid out of school for a week's vacation. And, you are right, each situation is different. What works for one kid will not work for another. What is acceptable in one school district or classroom is not want is acceptable in another. I suppose it goes back to knowing your child, knowing his teacher, knowing your school district and trying to make the best decision possible. Again, that decision will work for one kid and not another. So is life!

 

Also, I never did it when my DD was in middle school or high school. She went to Central High School here in Philadelphia which is a very tough school. Missing even one day put even the best students significantly behind. I only did it once and that was in grade school. Again, you have to know your kid and your school.

 

 

My daughter is a graduate of class 256

[Kristi Williamson]

Wow! This thread makes me feel even more blessed that we homeschool our four! ;)

 

Happy sailing to all!

[wonderfullife]

How many here have taken their kids out of school to go on vacation? For our trip, our kids would be out for four days (the fifth day is a teacher work day, so they'd be out anyway).

 

I don't have a problem with them missing four days, and can make up any assignments when they get back. How much can they miss in four days anyway? The rates are much more affordable in Feb / March, and we can't afford to go during the summer months as the prices go way up. Hubby doesn't really feel it's right to take them out, but if we don't go when it's cheaper, we can't go at all. I told him we aren't the first to take their kids out for a few days for vacation. It's not like it will be for 2 weeks or a month!

 

Ave

 

In order to know if you should take your kids out of school, you have to know your kids and their situation. Some think it is terrible and others think it is okay. I have taken mine out of school but I won't be doing that again for a while. Just ask yourself:

 

1. How rigorious is the school and how much hands on or make up work will be needed or missed?

2. Are my kids good students who will be able to grasp things that are missed?

3. Are my kids sick often where they may need to miss more school later and create an issue?

4. What ages are my kids and what social events that may be important to them might be missed?

5. Are there tests going on, such as MEAP or other tests that are mandated?

6. Will this create future problems with the teachers? Yes, it does happen that the teacher will take absences out on the students later.

7. Will it create a problem in the household..such as between DH and yourself?

 

There is so much more to look at and really other peoples opinions on the matter really don't mean much. Only you know your children.

 

In case it matters, the reason I won't take my daughter out again soon is because she is starting middle school. We want to be sure she is getting the hang of the new school and the new expectations before taking her out and disrupting things. Taking her out of school if she is not adjusting or not doing homework would be a reward and that is not what I would want to do. School is very important and the kids need to understand that and even if you take them out, in my opinion, you need to be sure that they are learning something in the meantime and not thinking school is not important.

 

Aleece

[FabFourLover]

my daughter is a graduate of class 256

 

lol 267!!!

[hoop4321]

school starts monday....taking ds out of school in two weeks. DS is in gifted classes and is in Geometry honors in the 8th grade for HS credit. His teacher thinks it won't be a big deal, because at that time they will be reviewing....his words, not mine. We leave on Sunday.....he says he wants to work Friday and Saturday and get it done, and bring his geometry book on board to study.....will he do it....yes. He is a great student.....straight As, great attitude, and a hard worker.

 

The poster with the friend who moved the exam...your friend seems petty, and the poster whose daughter was humiliated in front of class.....I'm so sorry...that is despicable.....that is why some people have low opinions of teachers. Some teachers take an opportunity to make themselves feel better at their students expense. A wonderful friend retired from teaching gifted students. Her stories about the pettiness in the teachers lounge are horrible. Most in our experience love what they do, and thankfully...our son has had some amazing teachers.

 

Take your kids, explore the world, have a great time, and post a review with lots of pictures.:D

[eh24fan]

Reading all of these replies has made me wonder what on earth everyone is doing.

 

Honestly, some of the teachers think that because parents are vacationing for a week during the school year, they (the teachers) are not valued?? WOW! I can say that my choice of vacation week has NOTHING to do with valuing school, teachers, education, etc. However, It has everything to do with when our family was able to go, together. And the value of my dollar.

[babyher]

Reading all of these replies has made me wonder what on earth everyone is doing.

 

Honestly, some of the teachers think that because parents are vacationing for a week during the school year, they (the teachers) are not valued?? WOW! I can say that my choice of vacation week has NOTHING to do with valuing school, teachers, education, etc. However, It has everything to do with when our family was able to go, together. And the value of my dollar.

 

Exactly

 

 

Some peoples jobs only allow them a ceratin time to take vacation. For others the price difference is an important factor. I don't think it has anything to do with how much one values a teacher.

 

I for one have all the respect in the world for them.

 

I know the rotten ones like those that have been mentioned here are the exception to the rule.

 

You never know a families' situation

[goodshiploli]

This is how I feel about this situation it is totally up to the parents. My taxes pay for teachers and adminstrators salaries, they work for me. As long as my children are not suffering with bad grades what harm can it do. As for the teacher that moved a mid-term exam thank god that guy is not my children's teacher he would not have a butt left when I was finished.(what an a**).

 

 

[DqALEX]

I sail New Years with my kids now for this reason. My youngest next year will be going into middle school and my other two are in high school. I won't take them out. Its to hard for them to make up the work in the higher grades.

[cathyoo]

I guess my concern here is the message to the child.. for my children missing school was like missing work. You were sick (really sick) or there was an emergency. I never wanted them to think I took their education lightly. We were able to plan family time and make wonderful memories within our budget and without diminishing the importance of school in their lives.

 

To the CCer who spoke about homeschooling. We considered that but since it would not have been a good fit for two of my four children we decided to send our children to Catholic school but we never stopped homeschooling them. All parents who are interested in their children's education homeschool. Some do it part-time and others do it full-time.

[cathyoo]

This is how I feel about this situation it is totally up to the parents. My taxes pay for teachers and adminstrators salaries, they work for me. As long as my children are not suffering with bad grades what harm can it do. As for the teacher that moved a mid-term exam thank god that guy is not my children's teacher he would not have a butt left when I was finished.(what an a**).

 

 

 

Sorry, they don't work for YOU.. they work for the children.. not your child specifically but for all the children in that class. We don't have that teacher's side of the story. A few years back I went back to school. At the beginning of the year the syllabus stated the mid year would be given on such and such a date (Friday) Monday of that week the professor stated the test date was being changed to Wednesday due to some changes in the scheduled speakers for the class. This was not convenient for me I had plans for Monday and Tuesday night and had planned to study Wed and Thurs. If you didn't take the scheduled test you could re-schedule but had to lose a full grade.

 

Maybe the teacher wasn't a mule's behind maybe something else came up...

[cuted126]

Yes,I did it once. My son was in kindergarten and missed 5 days. Didn't have too much work to make up in that grade though!

[WhansaMi]

This is how I feel about this situation it is totally up to the parents. My taxes pay for teachers and adminstrators salaries, they work for me.

 

 

Actually, no, we don't work for you. We work for our districts. Parents have no input on the hiring, firing, class schedule, promotion, or school assignment for teachers. No power = does not "work for".