bluesea321

2 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

During the pandemic this policy makes good sense. I agree the CDC did not say post-pandemic, but some on this board may have interpreted it as such. But it could never be implemented and policed in a post-pandemic environment. 

Like npcl I suspect that this policy is here to stay but it will only apply to ships that return to US ports with COVID cases.

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

I would put it more that they took more bond money, because they could not get interest in the stock sale. If you disagree with that, than ask yourself why they did not sell anymore bond since there was so much interest? The reason why is because the more debt they take on at such a high  interest rate (4 billion means 480 million per year in increased interest rates) the closer they come to violate covenants on existing debt. From the recent 10Q filing they need to maintain en minimum ratio of 3:1 of EBITDA to Consolidated Net Interest Charges.  With future revenue for the rest of the year in doubt they are limited in the amount of interest they can be paying.

But they apparently floated rates in the high teens and still no takers....

"Before the equity offering, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America had been working to put together a debt deal for Carnival that would offer some investors a potential return in the high teens, according to two people familiar with the discussions. Bankers pitched the deal to hedge funds and private equity investors, some of whom passed on it because of concerns about the company’s long-term viability."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/business/coronavirus-cruise-industry-carnival.html

Interesting...  rates offered in the high teens but hedge funds and equity investors still passed.

"Before the equity offering, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America had been working to put together a debt deal for Carnival that would offer some investors a potential return in the high teens, according to two people familiar with the discussions. Bankers pitched the deal to hedge funds and private equity investors, some of whom passed on it because of concerns about the company’s long-term viability."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/business/coronavirus-cruise-industry-carnival.html

5 minutes ago, Potstech said:

Then you are saying friends who I have known for over 20 years are liars?  Not likely.

No I did not say that, I said that others, not your friends, were indeed put on commercial flights, this is a fact.  Quit looking for arguments.

4 minutes ago, npcl said:

Notice that applies to their new build design, they do not mention all of their existing ships.  I suspect a bit of misdirection.

Yes, I agree.  However for CCL, with a fleet of over 100 ships, new designs are not in the foreseeable future so air will continue to be recirculated.

One thing that I noticed on the Genting Cruise Lines announcement is that they will NOT recirculate air, not even in common areas.  CCL ships recirculate air in common areas and retrofitting them to this standard would be a challenging proposition, not impossible but quite costly.

2 minutes ago, npcl said:

One bit of news that I consider to be more positive is that a Board Member Randall Weisenburger purchased $10 million worth of shares.

Was this an outright purchase on the open market where he used his own $10M or was it an exercise of options or non-qualified stock grants given to him as a result of serving on the board?  Do we know?

On 4/5/2020 at 7:43 PM, Tex Mex said:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/holland-america-cruise-passenger-florida-disembark-coronavirus

If I understood this article correctly HAL passengers were chartered to ATL then put on commercial flights from there.  Kind of defeats the purpose of the charter flight in my opinion.

13 hours ago, Potstech said:

You misunderstood as they were put on chartered flights from Atlanta. We know a couple who were on one of those ships.  From Atlanta to Richmond there was one other group from the ship and two service members who volunteered to be on the flight. No other passengers.

No, he did not misunderstand.  If you go to the CC HAL board you will see that some were flown to Atlanta on a charter and then put on commercial flights from there.  The same happened after the charter to San Francisco.  One prolific HAL poster had his brother on the ATL flight and his brother took a commercial flight to Charlotte at the ATL airport.  This was before the CDC changed the rules; as of Sunday it is no longer allowed.

5 hours ago, Wichard said:

We just received our notice that we will disembarking between 12:00 and 1:00 today via flights to Houston then Dallas.  Hopefully everyone will get off today.  Since it is a 4 hour trip by car between Dallas and Austin we will be home somewhere around midnight.

 

I appreciate all the best wishes and encouragement that we have received on this forum.  Be safe until this passes.

 

Richard 

Hi Richard, I wonder why they are making you fly to Dallas via Houston in order to get to Austin?  From the Houston airport to Central Austin is a 2 hour 45 minute journey saving you road time plus air time.  Oh well, the important thing is you are going home, great news!!!

20 hours ago, Mackenzie1 said:

Here is some hope:  Saudi Arabia takes a stake in Carnival Cruises:

https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabias-sovereign-wealth-fund-buys-a-stake-in-carnival-2020-4

Yes there is some hope but putting the investment into context, the Saudi Sovereign Fund holds $400 billion in assets and they purchased $350 million of CCL stock, i.e., less than one tenth of one percent of the Saudi Fund is invested in CCL, an inconsequential amount of loss for the Saudi Fund if CCL goes bankrupt.  The CCL stock offering was much larger, $1.25 Billion, but CCL could only sell $500 million as there were not sufficient takers. 

The stock offering was part of a $6 Billion debt package (much of which is at junk bond rates of 12%), and this on top of the $3 Billion they had tapped earlier.  CCL is burning cash at $1 Billion a month so this will allow them to operate through this year.  If cruising resumes late this year they will have to generate enough cash to cover not only operating expenses but also to service the debt, a tall proposition.

3 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

What could the Coral Princess have done differently? 

I don't know what they could have done differently while in South America but they have not handled matters well at all after docking in Miami.  Take a look at the article below, certainly a lack of communications and another passenger died as a result.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241809556.html

11 minutes ago, npcl said:

Just to be clear - You presume and do not believe, but have no facts that Princess is operating the return of the passenger counter to guidelines

It is not guidelines, it is a requirement for disembarkation.  All pax must and will be taken by charter or private transport to their homes (international pax excluded once they get to their countries).  

9 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Four days after the Ruby Princess left Sydney, Princess announced their pause in cruises. Out of all their cruises that were under way at the time (probably 16 cruises), only the Ruby had a significant outbreak. 

Don't forget about the Coral Princess which was also underway at the time; 3 have died and many are now hospitalized in South Florida.  Some passengers are still on the ship waiting for charter flights and others will have to stay on board for a mandated quarantine. More details below.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241809556.html

9 minutes ago, Host CJSKIDS said:

Here is the latest in our local paper about the Coral. 

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article241809556.html

That article is heartbreaking!  I don't understand why they are not keeping the passengers informed:  “She is especially worried being that she shared a cabin with my dad, who tested positive for coronavirus. Does that mean she is in a different category than those that are being sent home? No one will tell her one way or another.”

Personally I would rather know what is going on, good or bad, than being kept in the dark.

2 minutes ago, DAllenTCY said:

From what I have read, hundreds of passengers from the Coral Princess were not sent home via "chartered or private" transportation as promised.

One of the chartered flights from FLL went to ATL, where guests then connected to commercial flights home.

 

A second flight went to SFO with 135 passed along to United Airlines scheduled departures to Sydney.

 

David

The two chartered flights you referred to were not for the Coral Princess, they were for the HAL ships and those flights were prior to the CDC change which occurred late Saturday.  The pax from the HAL ships were lucky in this regard as they went home ahead of the CDC change.  No such luck for the Coral Princess, many still on board waiting for their charters.

7 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

Quite true. And how would the CDC enforce private transportation rules when 4 Australians, 8 English, 6 French, 20 Canadians, 3 Austrians, 6 Germans, etc. get off the ship? Would they all have to pay for private charter flights back home, and how can they be forced to if they cannot afford it? 

Now come on...   the CDC will enforce the rules in the US only.  Once your Australians, English, French, etc. get home on charter flights their countries can do whatever they want with them; most are quarantining the passengers now.  And the cruise lines would have to pay for the charter flights, not the pax, but only IF there is COVID on the ship.

5 minutes ago, Captain Ricky said:

This may interest all of us.

https://www.ft.com/content/8dd37fe5-64d0-4524-b115-86aa5a6a7bd0

3 minutes ago, StLouisCruisers said:

I can't read unless I subscribe.  Too bad.

I think it is an article about the Saudis buying 8% of CCL stock at their last offering.  If so you can read it in other places like here:

https://www.streetinsider.com/13Gs/Public+Investment+Fund+of+Saudi+Arabia+reports+8.2%+stake+in+Carnival+Corp.+(CCL)/16712941.html

1 hour ago, brisalta said:

Please explain how you came to that conclusion with appropriate citations.

Gee, you were the source and the citation is your own post.  You, not me, reported what they were doing with the Grand and if you are indeed correct, it is very different than what they did with the Diamond where they hired a company to replace mattresses, linens, towels, etc.  That was well documented here.

10 minutes ago, Pushka said:

An update on Ruby. Over 600 infected passengers in Australia, and 11 deaths here of Ruby passengers. Now taxi drivers that took the passengers from cruise to hotel/home are attending hospital and a couple in ICU. The Ruby is currently moored at Port Kembla because there is an expected 200 crew members infected and several crew are in Hospital and two in ICU. There is a Criminal Investigation just launched. Ruby is being held and Homicide Police are doing the investigation. All this from the cruise that arrived in Sydney on March 18th. 

Good gosh, that is terrible.  I wonder if the cruise industry will recover from episodes like that.  With the Coral docked in Miami and pax not able to be taken home, it does not bode well.

From the CDC official website:

• Cruise line companies must get travelers directly to their homes via chartered or private transportation.
• Commercial flights and public transportation may not be used.
• Since February 2020, travelers on dozens of cruise ships have been affected by COVID-19 outbreaks. Cruise ships are often settings for outbreaks of infectious diseases because of the semi-enclosed environment and contact between travelers from many countries.
• Outbreaks of COVID-19 on cruise ships pose a risk for rapid spread of disease beyond the voyage. Aggressive efforts are required to contain spread.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

And it not just the CDC, now the airlines also:

"A union which represents around 28,000 flight attendants at American Airlines stopped its crew from working a scheduled flight between Miami and Dallas Fort Worth on Sunday after learning that a group of cruise line passengers and employees were due to travel on the flight. The decision comes just over a day after flight attendants at United Airlines barred 135 Australian tourists from the COVID-19 stricken Zaandam cruise ship boarding a flight from San Francisco to Sydney."

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/04/06/american-airlines-flight-attendants-have-also-refused-to-fly-cruise-ship-passengers-home-after-cdc-urgently-changes-guidance/

20 minutes ago, WNcruiser said:

And no one thinks its strange that out of thousands of CC members here not one single person that was cancelled on March 12th has received a refund in the first 30 days? 

Good point...

1 minute ago, Wichard said:

No unfortunately, we are still waiting to hear something/anything from the Captain.  

Thanks for the update.  Please see my comments to Luna above.  I hope the same for you, hang in there, you will get home and this will be behind you.

21 minutes ago, LunaSeaRetreat said:

Nothing since 4 yesterday.  We're on the port side and can see passengers leaving, and buses and ambulances coming and going but I have no idea what's happening.

Thanks.  That is most unfortunate.  I don't know about you but I would prefer to know what is going on, good or bad, than being kept in the dark with no information.  I hope this nightmare is over for you soon.

9 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

Sound guidelines for the current times, but I don't see why this would be continued after the COVID-19 pandemic is over. In fact, it would be very difficult for every cruise line to provide private transportation home for everyone when all ships are sailing again. Furthermore, how does the CDC or anyone else enforce the private travel order when passengers have to travel long distances by air to dozens of different countries? 

After the worst of the pandemic is behind us IMO this will still apply but only to ships that come back with COVID cases, i.e., if a ship reports no URIs or COVID like symptoms the pax would disembark normally.  Only if there is a potential outbreak will this be followed but that is my opinion, the CDC may change their minds.  And while it applies to all, once a charter flight arrives at a foreign airport the local authorities would have jurisdiction.  At the moment many are requiring mandatory 14 quarantines, the UK, Canada, Australia, and others.