federalexpress

I tried a couple of the included wines last night that were brought on board at one of the ports, a Cab Sauv and a Syrah. These are not AZ branded wines, they were Argentinian but I've forgotten the name of the winery/producer. They were decent drinkable wines, maybe a bit youthful, but nothing wrong with that, at least they have some fruit. I was tasting them alongside the Ultimate's Rutini Merlot and while they were demonstrably not of that quality, I would not be unhappy getting these as my 'free' wine. Miles, miles better than the thin, weedy AZ branded Italian Merlot I mentioned previously. The problem is, I very much doubt these same wines will be available on the next cruise, there were only a few dozen cases brought on and it's in the lap of the gods what arrives in future. My best advice would be to at least ask if there are S American wines on board if you are cruising soon on Pursuit while it sails in this continent and don't want to get the Ultimate package. I suspect the probability is, they will be better than the AZ branded options.

I can confirm the last post. We've done it once and you get it course by course if you're in any kind of suite, brought by your butler. Speciality restaurant menus not offered in a CC suite- maybe in the big ones. Last orders for food is strictly 8.45pm. That matters if you go course by course and maybe try ordering desserts at that point. After 8.45pm you're on room service menu which is a lot more basic. We also have our wine delivered by the butler, whether with the meal or pre or post dinner drinks if we want these in the room. However we are on the Ultimate package so maybe they don't do that with included wines- not sure. I'm assuming the above is standard across all ships. We are on Pursuit and have an especially good butler who has been really helpful as well as being a thoroughly nice guy. I recall a thread questioning the role/purpose of butlers but in our case, I'm very happy we have one.

I know what you mean but so far I haven't repeated a dish. Having said that, I'm open to trying whatever is on the menu and put the two together plus the daily specials and there's enough choice. It would be nice for it to rotate a bit more but that would be to satisfy suite guests like me rather than the majority of the ship who are unlikely to notice. We're not huge fans of Discoveries, it's just so busy, but we have eaten there and will do again, as well as Windows one evening. We also really enjoyed Patio which I think is much underrated for simple but tasty barbecue style food and definitely plan to try that again when we want something less fancy and the weather allows. Incidentally they do a daily specials starter and dessert as well as an entree. I think, but not sure, that there have been days when there has been more than one.

Yes one of the evening shows. It seems they bring on local performers at various points. We are currently in Argentina which is apparently home (or one of the homes) of the tango. It was a good performance, they seemed to be quite professional, though I'm no tango expert. It was announced that they were doing a workshop the following day. I have seen the odd dance class/workshop on other days but because it's not my thing, I couldn't tell you if this is a regular event, like the very many trivia quizes.

I don't know about your cruise but I'm just back from the Tango show on Pursuit- really quite good- and they are running a dance workshop tomorrow. I've no idea how you check on this for your cruise.

Yes, totally different, albeit you can still get a steak of sorts in Aqualina (but not pasta in Prime C). I like them both and with the luxury of free speciality dining is in a CC suite and above, I mostly hang out in one or the other, not least for the very nice service you get.

You're right, no chef's table is included with a CC suite, at least not for first timers like me. Maybe they offer it to the small suite guests if they are frequent cruisers. I got mine through the Indulgence package. The shop and eat concept sounds great, but not offered on my cruise. I guess if there are some tiresome co diners, there is always the wine to take solace in....

I'm in a suite so I get the Prime C and Aqualina included but it does also include a chef's table with some fairly fancy wines as an alternative. Not had it yet but looking forward to it in a few days. I guess it also depends on the mood of your fellow diners.

I don't know whether it counts as a tip or not, but one thing I'd say for a newbie, who is not going to get any other discounts, is that the Indulgence package is worth a look if you are on a long cruise, even more so if you have OBC to spend. I'm an a 17 night cruise and if I understand things correctly, I pay the same $1499 that someone on a 10 night cruise pays (correct me if I'm wrong). In my case I also got $1000 of OBC so the on cost to me was little more than £400 in my own currency. You get an awful lot for that, especially given it is 17 whole days, even factoring in the daft mark ups on the excursions and spa treatments.

Honestly, I think this is mandatory however much it changes, I totally agree. Just print it onboard, it can be as cheap as they want to, it's the information that matters, not the 'look' of it. Right now, I find myself sending waiters off to show me bottles so I can see what's on offer and available. Not good use of their time or mine. Of course the sommelier knows what's available because he checks it all on, but there's only one of him and while he is a really nice guy, he has too much else on his plate to always come and talk to me (though he usually tries to, bless him)

I'm not at all an expert in cruise ship logistics, I imagine they would be challenging at the best of times, but when things settle down, I think there is much merit in your suggestion, indeed nothing I've written would preclude that. Having a core of wines mixed in with a portion of locally bought wine makes a lot of sense, is very much 'on brand' and would appeal to me too. It's clearly possible because as I said, they are doing this right now on Pursuit, albeit it feels in a haphazard way. I actually feel that the Ste Michelle portfolio would be a decent option for some of these core wines. Looking at their website, they cover much more than the main Ste Michelle estate (which are themselves fairly decent wines), especially adding in the Italian producer connections. Some good stuff there. Large producers can and do make good wine. That said, AZ is a small cruise line and its demands are relatively modest. Assuming 12 different wines, the demand for Ultimate wines would be around 1500 cases per year per wine. But that assumes a 25% or so take up of the package and an average of 1 bottle of wine consumed per day. Having been on board Pursuit, I don't think the demand is close to that. The vast majority just drink the included drinks and the rest seem to use the package more for spirits and cocktails. My impression is that wine lovers are more of a rarity on AZ than I had imagined. I suspect we are actually talking at most several hundred cases per year for each wine, which allows for smaller scale producers, especially if there are 2 rotations a year. So I think whether large or small producer, it will come down to cost versus quality. Maybe good large producers have an edge there but I agree there is plenty of scope for smaller producers and local wines to feature as 'specials'. But whatever they do, the one thing that urgently needs fixing is their capability to actually list what they have. At the moment, the wine list itself is basically redundant, so much on it is not available, and I've stopped asking for it. Maybe they need to forget about expensively produced lists, at least for the Ultimate selection, and find a cheap onboard printing option that is easy to update, as they take new wines onboard and change the offering. I would have thought it pretty basic for consumers to choose a wine from an accurate list, however so produced.

A further update. It seems we did indeed take on some additional 'local' wines at our recent port stop. Some of them appear to be for the included package. I haven't tried these but I imagine they would be an improvement on current offerings. The only included wine I have tried so far was an Italian Merlot(I think produced by Zonin) which I tried against the Coppola Diamond Selection Merlot on the Ultimate list. No contest and I'd suggest steering clear of the Italian Merlot, it wasn't good. For the Ultimate package, I believe they have added a Malbec, which I haven't yet tried and also a new Merlot from Rutini. They are a good Argentinian producer and this was a very pleasant wine, maybe better than the Coppola (which remains available). It will likely be my new 'go to' red. Although I don't drink it much, I did ask for a glass of champagne for 'research purposes'. This is indeed the Taittinger FIFA edition I mentioned earlier, so that wasn't a mirage. It was clearly a World Cup wine, which I suspect they had stocks remaining after the event and maybe AZ got it cheap. Nothing wrong with the wine, it's pretty good, as you'd expect from Taittinger. That said, it may not be more than a temporary fixture, there can't have been that much stock of it. Given it would likely cost $50 upwards, it does seem to be an anomaly on the Ultimate list. I had hoped that I'd be able to provide a definitive Ultimate list here but I think the reality is, it is fluid and I'd expect there to be changes throughout the year. My hunch is that 2023 will be a year of 'tactical buying' while in 2024, I suspect there will be a more stable list based around some of the Sycamore wines, and probably proper longer term supply agreements.

But Seabourn is Carnival, no? So the debt is around them too.

I'm on Pursuit right now. I guess on the one straight after you if yours was Antartica. I have no reference point since I'm a first timer but I don't recognise your points about service. Far from seeking my own wine, I have to stop them pouring and beyond that, the service has been very good. I haven't been on Oceania, so again I have no reference point but I've found the food to be fine (and I'm quite fussy), albeit I've only eaten in the speciality restaurants so far, not the MDR (that comes tomorrow). Not had any OOS on the food I've ordered though there have been stocking issues on the wine, which I've commented on elsewhere. On the latter, which I have some expertise, I think there is cost cutting. But then I doubt any cruise line can escape that unless they ramp up prices. Without a reference point, I'm happy so far, even despite the wine failings which do matter to me. They do seem to be trying to fix those as best they can. The sommelier has certainly been v attentive- and like so many of the crew, a lovely guy. What might be different is that a) we are some way short of full whereas yours, if Antartica, was near to sold out and b) there has I think been a fair turnaround of crew in Montevideo so maybe some were on their last legs.

Some minor updates on the Ultimate wine list. To my surprise, it turned out there was some of the Errazuriz dessert wine in the supplies they picked up in Montevideo. 18 half bottles apparently. Not sure how long that will last for. I imagine I might personally account for a quarter or more of that during the remainder of the cruise. The Chianti given on the list of a day or so ago has already changed to Frescobaldi Castiglione. They are a decent producer but this is their entry level wine and again it seems to be if anything a step down on the current offering.It also makes me less confident in the veracity of the wines I listed previously, even though it was apparently provided by the sommelier. I think one needs to think 'indicative' not ;definitive'. That said, the Tommasi Cab Sauv, the replacement for the Penley Phoenix, was served last night in Aqualina and that was perfectly palatable, though I would have much preferred all 3 of the previous reds to the new options. Apparently we have also taken onboard a selection of extra wines from the local areas, Argentina and Chile. Not sure if these are for the included package (which would be nice) or further replacements on Ultimate. We'll see over the coming days.

OK so I hope I got this right, Tequila is not my specialist subject. It appears there is one on the included list, one on the premium list and several on the Ultimate package. In order they are: Jose Cuevo Especial Silver Jose Cuevo Especial Gold Avion Reposado Don Julio Blanco Patron Silver Avion Silver Patron Reposado (currently OOS)

The impression I was given was that these replacement wines will be around for a good time, at least most of them. It was indicated to me that a refreshed wine offering may be appearing in 2024 and there was again a reference to the Sycamore owned wine brands, which is a considerable portfolio, especially if you include the Antinori partnership. 2023 may be a year of transition. But as I say, there is still some reasonable drinking there for the time being. I'm more of a red and dessert wine drinker, so really I ought to be telling others to leave off the WA. You're safer with me.....

I'm afraid I haven't got to any bars today. Long day out on sightseeing, then a veranda dinner. I'll check this out tomorrow, we're mostly at sea.

My take on the above is that 1) The offering is uneven in terms of pricing, more variance than seems sensible 2) The replacement wines are a step down in quality. Some not so much- the Coppola wine was OK. Others much more so. The Mondavi wines are their bottom range and bang average. It's a shame this is consistently so (almost). The original reds were really quite appealing in quality 3) The exception is the champagne. Assuming they actually do have it, what's all that about? Bargain leftovers after the world cup? Either way, it's likely a decent upgrade on that I've seen referenced on here before. 4) Despite the above, there is still some ok drinking here. It certainly won't spoil my cruise. The chianti is halfway decent, Tommasi generally make good wines and the Coppola Merlot was acceptable. And they have for now, Whispering Angel (and maybe I try the champagne) 5) My dessert wine conundrum is unresolved. The Errazuriz SB Late Harvest is not available. It seems I'm being offered a Sauternes as an alternative which is nice but actually I think the speciality restaurants might have options closer to the cost of the originally listed SB Late Harvest. In case anyone cares, I'll update if I manage to talk again to the sommelier.

So here's a comprehensive update as to Ultimate wines on Pursuit. It might be different on other ships. Here is what was on the official list and remains available according to the sommelier, white, rose and red in that order: Wairau River Sauv Blanc Selbach Fish Label Riesling Gerard Bertrand Reserve Viognier Beringer White Zinfandel Whispering Angel Rose Cote de Provence Callia Alta Malbec Poggio Tempesta Chianti Now onto the wines that have changed, first the original, then the replacement, in order of champagne, white, then red: Nicolas Feuillatte Brut replaced by Taittinger Brut FIFA edition The Seeker Chardonnay replaced by Mondavi Private Selection Chardonnay Bertani Pinot Grigio replaced by Danzante Pinot Grigio Penley Cab Sauv replaced by Tommasi Poggio al Tufi Cab Sauv Matanzas Creek Merlot replaced by Francis Coppola Diamond Selection Merlot Sokol Blosser Pinot Noir replaced by Mondavi Private Selection Pinot Noir. This is based on a printed list provided by the sommelier. I can't vouch for availability as a result but I think this is accurate. I have not listed vintages as I don't think that could be relied upon. My observations follow below.

Am also onboard. First timer, been generally good so far. Staff are v good. Ship seems to me to be well maintained but obviously not looking like the newer Viking or Oceania vessels. I explained it to my wife pre booking as slight faded country house hotel which is what it feels like and we like that look. Very informal which I also like. I also went to the Carnival show last night, it far exceeded our expectations. Unlike travelberlin, we preferred the singing to the drums but I was impressed by the quality and planning throughout. Glad I didn't miss it. Food is a bit early to say but OK so far. The wine issues I've posted on elsewhere. That needs fixing. Been busy, most of the time off ship so far....

I'll see if I can check that out for you tomorrow.

The shop is Lo de Joaqin Alberdi (or JA! for short) which is in Palmero on Jorge Luis Borges 1772. Open every day till 9.30pm. They are maybe not the cheapest place to buy wine but they have a very big range and you can try some wines before you buy. Because I bought several bottles, they gave me a 10% discount which made the pricing more competitive. Staff are very nice and helpful. The wine they recommended was Pascual Toso Alta Chardonnay Barrancas Vineyards 2021. It's quite an in your face oaky chardonnay but it also has gorgeous fruit and some acidity to bring some balance to the whole thing. Some might argue it is a bit too heavyweight for drinking without food but why should those wines be lightweights, when you can have this? Remember that you now get the higher blue rate on your Visa and Mastercard so I picked this us for around £17- worth every penny.

Can't help there, don't even know what that drink is!

I think it is likely the dodo of the Ultimate wine list.