Expat Cruise

Are you finished with your rants yet? They are really getting tiresome. I respect everyone's right to tip or not tip.... You are the one that keeps quoting everyone and trying to pull them to YOUR side of the fence. WE GET IT. WE HEARD YOU. Enjoy your cruises and stop telling the one's that DO want to tip all the reasons we should NOT.

No I will not as long as this topic is posted about or any other topic that I have a opinion on I will post. Now if you want to challenge my right to post you will be entering a battle that you cannot win.

I saw that post about the $15. I had to contain myself from commenting on it. ;) What I would like to ask you however...what does "high" post count have to do with raising the gratuities? :confused:

Look at the definition of gratuity it is not a required payment. No one has the right to question another for removing a optional fee. In the end the only thing that counts is the contract for service, and if allowed which it is then it is up to the person paying the bill.

If you want to leave in place and double the tips in cash... your money go ahead enjoy.

If I want to always remove and tip based upon service and performance....that is my choice.

If someone else says I do not believe in tipping ever.... that is their choice.

Looks as if the show is over and the popcorn is finished.:cool:

Over for this thread maybe.... but like so many things not dead, will be back again many times.

Nah thats not fair no-one has responded to my rant and rave:eek:

I agreed with you.... but rant and rave away....

According to coca cola sugar doesn't cause obesity. McDonald's say trans fats are OK and pink slime is actually real beef. Philip Morris said that their tobacco didn't cause cancer and all car makers in the USA denied climate change.

 

I wouldn't trust an American company in anything they say ever. Even their European based subsidiaries are more honest than their US parent companies.

 

So do you trust royal to give your grays 100% to staff? Not on my life.

 

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Maybe you should read again... I do not believe Royal is doing the right thing, I do not believe they are spreading the money collected back to the crew without taking a cut, I do not believe they are giving the money to the people who have earned it.

And as others have pointed out I have said in many posts I always remove the daily auto gratuity and will never pay it.

Love a good debate but I am afraid no one will win this one.

I agree that is why I suggest a end to it.

The more I think about this issue the more I am cynical about what RCL is doing. I will probably never know the truth BUT I do know.

 

1) Auto Tips have risen far far above the CPI in recent years. (anyone care to argue that?)

 

2) Staff levels have decreased in recent years and service levels have not improved. (again any arguments?)

 

3) RCL state that all the tips are spread passed on. (no proof either way)

 

 

SO If 3 is a fact then one of these MUST be occuring:

 

a) the staff ( who presumably were quite content with their previous wages) have gained substantial pay increases of late.

 

b) RCL have dropped their base wage and using the auto grats to subsidise the salary at the same level.

 

c) far more people are opting out and those that are paying (ME) are subsidising the opt outers cruise while the staff are no better off.

 

If 3 is not a fact RCL are playing me for a fool.

 

For the first time I am actually thinking of how to deal with my grats because each (now regular) increase is a slow drip to a larger total increase.

 

It is like the drinks or any gratuity rise from 15% to 18%. There is no need to increase the percentage as the inflationary price rise of the product takes care of the increase in grat returned to the server in line with inflation.

I agree it is a b & c. As for tips not being spread and passed on. Really only a couple of ways to know. Be inside Royal or hear it directly from the staff. I have heard directly from staff members that Royal does keep part of the auto gratuity daily fees. Now maybe the crew member was lying to me. But more than one has told me or my wife who is Filipino, that they make less now with auto tipping and the company takes money.

Given the choice of listening to Royal and the Corporate PR spin or listening to the crew member who came over to my table at a local wedding here in the Philippines and ask me about my next trip I will take the crew member. He did not know me or my wife, he was on his off time waiting for his next ship.

And we talked, his words "Mr ****d we do not like tipping now, much better before in cash" Could have he been lying? Absolutely he could be lying but he had no reason to do so.

Given I gave detailed examples, to say "nothing is worth your time" suggests more that you are unable to answer rather than any worth of their merits.

 

However, I haven't said you shouldn't do what you decide, just the merits of your arguments. I'm happy to leave my statements as they are.

I did answer your posts but you just don't want too or can't see the answers and cannot defend against what was said. Your arguments remind me of the beef cows being lead in a slaughter, just moving along unaware of the truth.

So as I already said we will agree to disagree.

mrs and mrs

Yes the more people try to flame me the more I know I am right. Besides how can anyone really let anything posted blind mean anything. This site allows, well actually requires people to hide behind false names so I would never use anything here as a final say or ruling. But is is a good place to start and then confirm using outside sources and information.

The only rules I go by here is:

Post what I believe or know is the truth

Never compromise my own values or opinions

Respect every ones right to be heard and express themselves

And then do exactly what I believe is correct.

If life is so tough in the hospitality industry in the USA perhaps they should take up life on cruise ships and improve their standard of living. Heaven forbid that a resident of a third world country should be able to earn more than a resident of the greatest first world country on the planet for doing a similar job. I do wonder if they would be able to keep up over a 7 month contract with limited time off and no union. I know my New Zealand hospitality workers would struggle

The general tone here seems to be if you agree with what others post you are welcome but if you have different beliefs you are wrong. This site very much takes a Untied States view of the World wanting to imposes US standards. What many fail to understand is half of Royal's market is outside the United States, and the US viewpoint is not the World viewpoint.

But cannot really blame these posters as most have no idea about the real World outside the United States. With limited interaction only as tourist. If you want to tell people from non tipping countries about life maybe you should spent extended time in those countries first and learn the culture. Not have the arrogated viewpoint that the American way is the best and right way....

And before the flames come out I and my parents are/ were Americans, born and raised.... So I can speak from both sides having lived outside the United States for many years.

So you think they should discriminate where people come from?

 

As far as I know, each person in the role gets a similar wage regardless of their origin/nationality. You can be Australian, Romanian, Italian or Indonesian.

 

 

 

The bulk of their income is from the customers, as per the American tipping model, hence your argument is moot since the "value" is to the passenger, not the company.

 

And then on top of that the staff have to deliver to the required standard, hence why ratings are taken and important. Again, there is no differing standard depending on nationality.

 

 

 

Given I said no such thing, and your arguments don't make any logical sense, it's evident the "clarity" is only in your own mind.

I think we should just agree to disagree as I see nothing worth my time in your points. And since I'm sure you will not agree with my side and I would never agree with you. So you keep doing whatever you want and I will do the same. Very proud to say I have never paid auto daily gratuities on any Royal Cruise, and never will.

This has to be one of the most asinine things I've read. You like that they are doing it, yet you don't.

You say they are thieves, yet, as a a shareholder, you are one of those thieves!

 

I know I shouldn't keep feeding a troll, but really, you have to get your story straight!!! Either you like it or your don't? Either it's voluntary and optional or it's theft??

 

I agree with an earlier poster that if you have such antipathy toward a company, don't use it and CERTAINLY don't invest in it, else you look, well, at best, hypocritical.

 

M

You are always allowed to have a opinion. I can still invest and travel as I see fit. Your opinion has no effect on what I have done or will do. I do not need to like the policies of a company to make a profit from them. I do not need to always agree with everything they do. But they do need to be accountable to me as a shareholder. My goals as a shareholder and my goals as a client are not the same and never need to be the same.

I was one of the people who after 911 shorted RCCL stocks, was that a statement about what happen? No it was a investment choice. I can and do follow two paths/

Please please explain what it is that makes a server at McDonalds second class so as not to warrant tips. Because it s yet another string to the US tipping bi that just doesn't make sense to me.

McDonald's is not a tip position, the corporation pays their employees and does not rely upon holding up value clients for extra fees.

On the Solstice currently are Canadian, South African, Italian bar servers as well as those from so called third world countries. Is Canada, South Africa and Italy now considered third world?

You will always find exceptions, the overwhelming majority of the service staff on Royal is from third World Countries. Royal is targeting having 30% of the work force from the Philippines with a current hiring push for 30,000 new employees from here. The statements are correct.

Tipping threads can be pretty entertaining but in the end they tend to leave you wondering why some people even cruise. I understand some don't like the system and there's no problem expressing that but isn't it a little hypocritical to call a corporation uncaring, robbers, and thieves and still give them you're hard earned money. Very bizarre behavior.

Why bizarre behavior, as a shareholder I love the corporate is keeping cost down and making fools of the passengers by making them believe this is somehow normal. Fantastic marketing like what De Beers did with diamonds, how much should you pay for a diamond engagement ring? Most will say two months salary, were did this number come from? De Beers advertising campaign. Were does the idea of auto gratuities come from? Same place corporate doing a great job for shareholders.

But this is a cruise passenger board so when I post it is from the passengers side. I know most people will not listen but the information is correct. I get myself the best price and the happy cruisers who want to overpay put profits in my pocket. Really need to love the system.

Thank you so much Clarea and Expat Cruise for the reply.

 

We come from a country that does not have any gratuity system in place, so please forgive me if I'm confused on this issue.

 

I have no problem on earth paying the gratuities but would just like to be clear on the subject.

 

I thought that if we prepaid the gratuities in advance that it would be over and done with however, does that mean that if I go to the bar and order a drink or buy anything onboard that I'll have to pay another 18% there and then even though I've prepaid?

 

Sorry for any confusion that I'm conveying, this is totally new to us!

Yes the Daily suggest gratuity is only for dinning staff and housing staff. Then your bar bills, all drinks and packages, and spa fees will be hit for 18% more. So with your drinks or a package these tips and services fees come up to hundreds of dollars per person.

If this was not enough you will also be told several times you can tip more and given the change to do so. For non USA guest this all must sound crazy but this is the brain washing that has taken place in the United States about tips. As another posted here Tips should be earned not excepted.

Hi all

 

We are a party of 11 travelling for our first ever cruise in July. I've been reading this thread with interest.

 

We booked our cruise with a travel agent and have been told that we have to prepay our gratuities yet from reading some posts here it seems that we can pay our gratuities on board the ship which most seem to do and use their discretion as to whether the service was good or bad.

 

Can anyone clarify this for me please, or am I getting the wrong end of the stick? Thank you :)

I would have the gratuities removed, even if it means you need to cancel the cruise and re-book. Since still over 90 days away you can cancel and get 100% refund. And if the travel agent cannot fix this you need to change travel agents. If it was my booking I would be talking to Corporate guest resolution and making a claim of fraud in the booking of this cruise.

I would not take no for a answer, and if the agent gives you any issues I would give the manager once change to correct before I was filing with Better Business Agency, On line reviews, and a full dispute with my credit card company.

But it will not come to this. As soon as you inform Royal that you will cancel they will correct this. Others maybe will handle different but this is what I would and have done, when a problem.

Good luck with that incongruous desire. Says it all really.

So I'm incongruous for wanting 1st World Services and 3nd World pricing but RCCL is doing the right thing by charging 1st World Pricing and Standards (Tipping, Etc) but hiring 3nd World Staff?

Do you really believe they are hiring 3nd World Staff because they are the best available or because they are the best value for the company? I'm wrong for wanting the same level of control and costing over my personal funds but Royal is right for wanting to do the same thing with costs and payroll?

OK I understand now you support a double standard here. Thank you for making that clear.

The only reason you have an assistant is because the waiters have to many tables. So why am I paying tips exactly? So royal can offload nearly all its costs on to guests. I'll go speciality from now on. 190 USD for 14 nights... Will stay out the MDR food sucks in there anyway

 

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I like the way you think, it is clear not everyone here believes Royal's PR.

Conversely it is apparent you want to judge things by 3rd world standards.

 

Going on these ships is not a 3rd world experience. If the service was paid at 1st world levels, they would be paid a lot more than they are so it is a cheap cop out to pay 3rd world for a 1st world service.

 

As a shareholder, you apparently want a better life for yourself. So do they. That doesn't mean they should be exploited, any more than you should be.

 

Tosh.

No I want first world standards at Third World prices. People who work directly for me or provide service they get reward. I did not go into McDonald's in the United States and tip as it is not a service that should be tipped.

Royal offers complete packages paying dishwashers, bar backs runners, kitchen staff is all on them. The cabin Attendant provides direct service he/she should be tipped if the service has been provided. But the laundry room staff, housekeeper mangers all are again on Royal. And that why I remove auto tips. When I tip it is directly to the people I want to have tips.

What an absolutely arrogant and ignorant comment. Whilst you may be a stock holder it gives you no right to treat people with utter disdain. Staff regardless of where they are from deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect. Whilst you say you are from the Phillipines you are obviously not a Phillipino as they have far more manners

Well first off it is not Phillipines it is Philippines, and it is not Phillipino it is Filipino, but you are right I am from the United States, I choice to live in the Philippines. What is true is you have every right to your opinion, and I have ever right not to follow what you say. I treat the staff the way they should be treated in my opinion. Better than they would be treated by Filipino business owners here in their own country. As for manners I have never attack any other poster here, I will call the company out when I believe they are wrong.

So as a shareholder I love the fact they we hire workers from the Philippines, I love that if they are hurt, injured, or even killed to to errors cause by RCCL that the maximum liability under the law here, is US$50,000. A simple slip and fall in Walmart costs the corporation more. Do you really believe RCCL hires all these workers from the Philippines to help them? No it is best for business.

But also as a client I want to get the best total package I can. So I will cruise and let Royal make next to nothing and they can make it up on your fare. I hope it is very clear now.

No need! You posted that Royal is "stealing" with the auto gratuities probably more than a dozen times (feels like 3 dozen times, but I'm not going to go back and count) between this thread and another thread on the topic. We all get that's what you think! It doesn't make it any less unfounded--especially when you've also said many times that you remove the gratuities so they're not "stealing" from you. This is how inflation works! Every good and service you pay for goes up in price over the years. I picture you arguing with vending machines and yelling at the cashier in the grocery store over rising costs.

 

 

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It stealing and I will post it as many times as I want within the threads here and as allowed under the rules. If you don't like it you have a few choices:

1) Post Back

2) Leave site

3) Live with it.

Really very simple, as you have every right to your opinions. But so do I have the same rights.

March New Jersey Could be warm 60's or could be a snow and ice storm. Also remember the water temperature is cold so a little wind and it will not be nice in the Atlantic Ocean in March.

You don't know it's correct.

 

You may think it's a certain way, but you don't have any facts to back that up.

 

You are also absurd to claim he is letting RCL steal from him when he gives it willingly.

Sorry but you are wrong I have direct statements by Royal crew members (off the ship) here in the Philippines that is what I am basing my statements in part on. Royal uses fraud and deception in the processing of these daily gratuities. And I have said the same to Royal's legal department and openly Challenged them to talk auction against me for my statements..... The reply was they folded and did exactly what I told them they would do.

Believe me don't believe me.... Really doesn't matter each reader is free to form their own opinion.

Also remember that all the trips offered through Royal or other Cruise lines are already marked up, many of the countries Royal goes to are not tipping countries. In Many of these third world countries a 10% Tip would be equal to several days total pay.

I looked at so tours being offered around Manila Philippines, that target people with airport layovers. For a four hour city tour the price was US$450.00, at that number you could hire a private driver 7 days a week for almost two months. So tipping 10% as suggested would be a week and a half of normal pay for a 12 hour day.

FYI the local price for this tour should be about 2500 PHP or $US53.00.