Pratique

I get it, but also not necessarily in agreement. I used to design safety systems for Disney. I once went to a conference and we spent a lot of time talking to another attendee from the Navy who was very interested in learning about how we did things so much better than they did. It blew my mind. I think there are lots of relatively simple solutions to improve fault tolerance. It sounds like an excuse to say there are too many ships so it doesn't make sense to do anything differently. Just my perspective.

Chief, one thing you have not discussed is speed. My understanding is that a ship this size needs to keep it's speed up for navigating through a narrow channel without a tug assist. In this case close to 10 knots. Which is why they didn't have enough time to recover from the blackout. Add to that the loss of steering control and it seems like a recipe for disaster - a breaker trips and the ship is adrift at 10 knots in a narrow channel.

Probably more accurate to say the public is complacent. We are all paying for this though.

A cable stayed design seems like the way to go. Much more redundancy than a truss.

I'm an electrical/software engineer and all of what you say makes sense to me. But the reality is that someone needs to be held accountable for this tragedy and it needs to be explained to the public. The public is unlikely to be satisfied with a technical explanation that nothing within reason could have been done to prevent it, even if that is true. If in the end that it all there is to say, then it seems like something else needs to be done to help prevent it from happening again. Maybe new ship design and/or bridge design. Otherwise it's like telling people in Houston that every flood is a 100-year flood. Hard to trust that it won't happen again soon. And we are assuming now there was no sabotage or negligence even though criminal and civil investigations are still underway. This NTSB report is preliminary fact finding but I agree that it leaves much to be desired and makes me wonder whether the investigators really know what they are doing. Which is just going to make things worse. This report also felt rushed, I would not have expected to see it for another month or two at least.

Except that the first pair of blackouts caused them to switch over to the disused transformer, which may have failed at a most inopportune time. Swiss cheese as you say. Public officials have already accused the ship as being unseaworthy after the first set of blackouts. Maybe not technically true? But difficult to explain away as pure coincidence considering the severity of the incident less than a day later.

I think it was a different pair of breakers after the crew switched over the night before, something about how the breakers had not been used for a few months. But hard to draw conclusions from this.

The first NTSB report is out https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/DCA24MM031_PreliminaryReport 3.pdf Dali had two electrical failures in port the previous day, apparently related to human error. "The first in-port blackout was caused by the mechanical blocking of the online generator’s exhaust gas stack. The second blackout in port was related to insufficient fuel pressure for the online generator." The two blackouts while underway were caused by unexpected breakers tripping. Fuel was not contaminated. No conclusions about why the breakers tripped while underway.

"People are saying" is a thing apparently. I've been in situations, more than once, where the boss was summarily dismissed and replaced without explanation. It is unsetting not knowing what's going on or what to expect next. I suspect that the new VP spent all day today talking to her team trying to ease concerns, probably because they have no idea why it happened either or what it means for them. It is telling that the "well wishes" sentiment came from a spokesperson and is not attributed to an executive. Corporate America can be cold, harsh, and unforgiving. I think Nick deserved a better sendoff, but that's just me being compassionate for someone who gave 10 years to the company. in this role. Can't have compassion when you are in charge of big business, now can we?

It’s a fact that Nick was unceremoniously dismissed and immediately replaced with someone from the operations side. The company opened itself up to this speculation. And the most likely reason is probably the actual reason - a change in direction for entertainment. And probably not for the better because that would be too expensive..

Something is up at HQ. Sooner or later we’ll find out. Jason Liberty was interviewed recently and he’s a man on a mission.

It’s a shakeup for sure. “We wish him well” says it all.

Ooops I missed the part about ocean view. In the grand suites there are still shower curtains.

For eight days you may not be happy with Freedom. Freedom is in great shape but simply doesn’t have the Symphony experiences in terms of restaurants, entertainment and other venues. I think Freedom is a great ship for 3/4 nights but longer than that it would feel too limited. The decor on Freedom is dated, some things like drawers are sticky or loose, shower curtains instead of glass doors, little stuff but nothing major. Very long lines at El Loco Fresh being by the pool. Water slide at the aft, nowhere near the pool. Freedom is a beautiful ship but nothing like Symphony. If the ship is the destination for you then choose Symphony. IMHO

I will say this about RC, and some people may disagree, but it is like the McDonald's of cruising. More or less a homogeneous and consistent experience on every sailing so you know what to expect every time. Not a ton of attention to detail - they are catering to the masses and sailing the same itineraries over and over again. Wash, rinse, repeat. This is not necessarily a bad thing and millions of customers every year seem to agree. Royal isn't trying to be a luxury line; they focus on what works "well enough" consistently. FWIW McDonald's also has lots of repeat customers so make of that what you will. You will get a 2-top and the service and food will be decent to good but not extra special. The large ships are no worse than the smaller ships because even though there are more guests there are also more places and crew for them - if anything, the larger ships offer more options (dining, entertainment, etc.), which is a good thing IMHO. There is some benefit to scaling the ships up in terms of what they have to offer for the price. The ship is the destination. If you value consistency and predictability, RC has it. As far as the infinite verandas, the #1 problem for me is that opening the window exposes the entire cabin to the outside air. This is a problem in the morning when I get up before my wife and sit outside while she sleeps. I will never get one of those staterooms and certainly not at the prices Celebrity is asking for a "balcony" stateroom.

Call Air2Sea and see what they have to offer. With a party of 5 and luggage you will need a van or shuttle bus to travel together. Even an Uber SUV will not be large enough. There are private companies such as Super Shuttle that have vans that can be booked. Another cost-effective option is to book the transfer aboard the ship at Guest Services. Worst case you will have to hire two taxis.

Good to know. From the accounts given it sounds like they are compliant but it keeps happening because of the parents letting the kids in the pool in the first place.

Margaritaville at sea!!!

Can I just say that I love the title of this thread. I have spent some time thinking about an Icon class cruise and come to the conclusion that this Royal has crossed the line for me with this one. They keep sending me marketing emails for Icon "starting at" over $1,800 (I assume for a broom closet) and I keep thinking to myself "they can keep it for someone else." 3X+ the price for a shiny new ship with closed pools. Yeah, no.

That's good to know. Did you have a case on the tablet, or was it just the tablet. It seems in some closets the safe door cannot swing wide without hitting something, which somewhat limits the size of the opening to the safe, so that might also be a factor.

Is there a self-reporting requirement by the cruise line? If they are shutting down the pools for sanitation. Versus a noro outbreak. Or are the guests filing VSP reports the only backstop in this situation? It never occurred to me that I could or should file such a report.

It is ridiculous. Lifeguards always on duty are a relatively new thing after a child drowned a few years ago on a RCCL ship. Their mission is to preserve life not to keep the pool clean.

You are spot on. A few years ago we lived in a condo and at one association meeting the board was telling a mother that she could not let her children play in the street unsupervised (or really, at all) because not only was it a safety issue but also a liability issue for the condo association. The mother responded by yelling at everyone in the room to essentially butt out of her parenting decisions. Several times a year I go to watch the races at places like Saratoga and Del Mar and although I have no particular issue with children being there, wagering on horses is an adult activity. Yet parents let their kids run wild and bristle at any suggestion that they should reign in their children at the racetrack (it's not a playground, although many of them have designated play areas for children). So it seems like it is pretty much everywhere and often in places where it doesn't need to happen. That being said we still encounter children and parents who are respectful and courteous so I won't paint everyone with a broad brush. Nevertheless, it feels to me like entitlement and disrespect for others has run rampant. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky but I was never allowed to misbehave in public as a child so that's my perspective.

The lifeguards should not be distracted by locating the parents who walk away and then talking to them. They also can't just blow their whistle at very young children and expect them to understand. The guards need to be hyper-focused on everyone in the water.

I concur, although the urine issue is unfortunately not limited to children and will not close a pool down. RCCL allows swim diapers in the pools on Coco Cay. The rules need to be enforced and not by the lifeguards but instead by an officer or a crew member with authority. Otherwise this behavior will just continue.