arlowood

I have mentioned this in another thread but the requirement for a "vaccine passport" has reared its ugly head in this morning's press. Several EU countries have already drawn up their own plans (Greece, Cyprus, Poland and Denmark). The EU leaders are due to discuss the issue next week apparently, to ensure that there is a harmonised system throughout the EU to facilitate free movement for those who have been jabbed.

Since Brexit, we are out of the loop and will be barred from entry, I suppose, until we introduce something similar that meets the requirements of the EU.

My guess is that any resumption of international cruising is rapidly disappearing into the distance.

Reports in today's Times that several EU countries are drawing up official vaccine certificate style entry requirements including Greece, Cyprus, Poland and Denmark.

It is also reported that EU leaders will be discussing this issue next week with the intention of setting up an EU wide "vaccine passport" system to allow free movement within the EU for those who have been jabbed.

Since Brexit of course, we are out of the loop and will have to play catch-up, if and when we do introduce our own vaccine passport. Also any system we do introduce will inevitably have to be scrutinised and approved by the EU before it can be rolled out.

Up until now the Government have been fairly adamant that we will not be introducing such a system but we may be in line to witness another dramatic U-turn if the travel industry ends up in the toilet because nobody from the UK can enter EU or other countries overseas due to the lack of proof that they have been vaccinated.

This is just another potential nail in the coffin for any hopes that international cruising can resume during 2021. Could be a lot of round Britain cruise itineraries being launched in the near future

9 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

This is the problem with experts, they don't all agree and can take totally opposing views of the same issue. Nobody knows what the future will bring so some of us form our opinions on past events, however there has not been a past event like this for over 100 years and things were totally different then. A lot of people have a habit of following the experts who tell them what they want to hear or believe in, regardless of what is happening in front of their eyes. My opinion of the pandemic is now somewhat different to what it was last April as I am sure it is with lots of others, if I could be bothered or had the time it would be interesting to compare some of our early posts with what we think now. Anybody up for a challenge? 

Agree totally. In any news item you will often have some talking head who is touted as "an Expert" just as a means of supporting some editorial view of the situation. My other half is sick of me shouting at the TV words to the effect "Who the **** is he/she" - when some name appears on the screen spouting their view of any situation. And don't get me started on dissecting the predictions of Professor Neil Ferguson - he of Foot and Mouth/SARS/Mers fame with wild predictions of millions of deaths.

I get the impression that some epidemiologists feel that now is their chance to have their 15 minutes of fame and put forward deliberately controversial statistics just to fan their own egos.

Sorry folks - rant over 

1 hour ago, arlowood said:

I did contact them just after Christmas with my concerns about paying the full balance on the date they normally require it (early January) when the 90 day official date is end of January. They responded that they would relax their deadline until the 27th January and could relax it further depending on the circumstances at the time.

I will now press them with the knowledge that P&O have revised their final payment policy to 30 days before departure and see what response I get.

Emailed them earlier and they have just come back and confirmed that they knew about the change of policy. Have now had it confirmed that they need the balance payed 40 days before the departure date to allow them enough time to get the money to P&O within the 30 day cut off. So we don't need to worry now until 22nd March which is good to know.

19 hours ago, davecttr said:

Here is the link to the story https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-55605149

 

Does anybody read these letters before they go out and realise they are being ambigious 😠

 

I don't think it is actually deliberate, at least with the 'workers', as for the 'bosses', I have had my fair share of those idiots in my over 30 years in the civil service. In the extreme crisis we have now I would have hoped that some really competent leaders would have emerged but apart from JVT ............

 

ps - half a bottle of wine and two large G&T's has not made me happy so apologies. I fully intend to drink the rest of the wine and several more gins later. What I need is some of that Norwegian cheese I bought in Geiranger. It was brown and superb, can't remember the name 🍷 🍕  🍷 🍕  🍷 🍕

Yep - we've just had an item on our East Midlands news at lunchtime stating that more vaccine hubs are being set up with a hope that some will be on-stream later this week. However they did comment that some people in the East Midlands (Nottingham/Derby/ Leicester) had received letters and were offered appointments at the Millennium Point hub in Birmingham. Now it's stretching a point to the limit to believe that you can get to the centre of Birmingham from our area within 45 minutes. I'm fairly fit in my mid-70's but I would baulk at tackling that journey even by car to get vaccinated. Lord help those older and more compromised being faced with that prospect.

I am astonished by the logic of setting up huge regional testing centres for this first wave of vaccine delivery. I know they will be crucial once we get down the priority list and have larger numbers of younger fitter people to deal with but for 80 and 90 year old's - surely local GP surgeries would have been much better

3 hours ago, yorkshirephil said:

Call me an old cynic but based on past experience and other peoples stories I wouldn't put it past some of the TA's to not tell you about the new terms and keep your money in their bank. One thing I do know is that Ig!u have been informed of the P&O terms, as the lady I spoke to last week told me.

I did contact them just after Christmas with my concerns about paying the full balance on the date they normally require it (early January) when the 90 day official date is end of January. They responded that they would relax their deadline until the 27th January and could relax it further depending on the circumstances at the time.

I will now press them with the knowledge that P&O have revised their final payment policy to 30 days before departure and see what response I get.

On 1/7/2021 at 1:06 PM, Adawn47 said:

Just received ours too for June 25th cruise. We should know much more by the end of May re: jabs by then. I feel much more relaxed now there's some breathing space.

Avril

That's strange. We are booked on Aurora departing 1st May and have heard nothing so far. Our booking is through a TA though so that may explain the absence of any notification. I will email the TA today to check if they have had any info on the change of final payment date for our cruise. It would certainly ease some of the worry over potentially committing funds to a cruise only to find it has been cancelled after the final payment date. We already have a cruise booked on Aurora mid-August and also an FCC from Viking for a cancelled cruise last year.

I did see some musings that P&O might not be doing any sailings in their smaller ships this year (Aurora, Arcadia and possibly Ventura) due to the difficulties of maintaining social distancing. Cutting the passenger numbers on the smaller ships would not make it financially viable to run the cruises. It does make sense to some degree but is obviously going to disappoint many who prefer the small ship environment.

Things are starting to accelerate a bit here in the Nottingham area. Our local authority, Rushcliffe Borough Council, has announced recently that Gamston Community hall will be up and running as a  vaccinating hub from 7th January. This for many will be more convenient and accessible than having to go to one of the main hospitals where parking is a nightmare.

It would mean a 10 mile drive for me but much preferable to wrestling with the parking at the Queens Medical Centre. Hopefully a more local hub will be designated in the coming weeks. 

Just now, Selbourne said:

You are spot on in all respects. I mixed her up with another of my favourite female artists. Haven’t seen Oleta Adams live though. I have the CD and yes you are also right with the Tears for Fears link. As I recall, wasn’t it ‘Woman in Chains’ that got her noticed?

Yes spot on - Woman in Chains is a classic. You can hear Oleta doing some fantastic vocal gymnastics in the background. I commend the track to any of the uninititated

17 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Beverley Craven. Great song. Saw her live in 2019 with Judy Tzuke and Julia Fordham. Absolutely superb show. And yes, I agree, I would drive to the other end of the country to get my jab ASAP. 

Sorry to contradict you Selbourne but the original hit was recorded by Oleta Adams - Get Here.

A great song by a great singer. She was discovered in the US I believe when she turned up to do a backing track for the group "Tears for Fears". I think they has some involvement in promoting her career.

It may have been covered by Beverley Craven at a later date

2 hours ago, Purdey16 said:

Kalos, take some shopping from your cubards put it in shopping bags and put it in your car , then go to the shops not stopping but continue to do loops until you have reached a good ten miles run on your car , if you get stopped at any point you have some shopping in your car 😉😁

Sounds like a good ploy. During the last lockdown my car was inactive for a fair bit. Went shopping locally one day and had a "Low Battery" warning shouting at me from the dashboard. That resulted in £75 spent on a special charger that was designed for AGM batteries. Recently changed my car so hopefully I wont suffer the same problem in the short term. However I do think it's advisable to allow the engine to get up to a proper working temperature maybe at least once every few weeks. Helps with clearing out deposits and protecting the life of the catalytic converter.

Got an eye test appointment next week at a Boots branch about 6 miles away but that 6 miles could become 12 or 15 with some creative routing😜

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

In as much as the police will ever admit they are wrong, this comes pretty damn close.  I like the way the Derbyshire Police "welcome " the fact that they were totally wrong and out of order in persecuting two innocent individuals, and have had to rescind the fines issued. 

This us a difficult time for all of us,  but civil liberties must be upheld.

https://www.derbyshire.police.uk/news/derbyshire/news/news/forcewide/2021/january/force-welcomes-new-guidance-from-npcc-around-about-travelling-during-lockdown/

I think they were more or less forced to back-pedal after an item on our East Midlands news last night. The story initially featured several instances of the Derbyshire police stopping and turning people away from local parks in the Derby area - also the main one of the two young ladies who were fined £200 for driving 5 miles to have a walk. The journalists then interviewed the Chief of Police for Nottinghamshire who more or less rubbished the tactics of the Derbyshire force. He seemed more in the camp of policing by consent rather than the heavy handed approach. The inference being that if you interpret the guidelines too strictly then you will encourage a kick-back mindset

3 hours ago, Eddie99 said:

I think that is the way it is going - phone call with 24/48 hours notice.  Good thing no-one has plans to be anywhere but home!

I was worried that there might be a short lead time between phone call and jab appointment. I am currently a volunteer in the 0ver-70 cohort for the Oxford vaccine trial. Had my 2 jabs back in August and September last year. Obviously I don't know if I was given the Oxford vaccine or the placebo.

We have been told that if we receive a call to have a jab we can email the study director and request to have our data "unblinded." Depending on the outcome of that we can decide to go ahead and be jabbed or sit tight if we have already been dosed with the Oxford vaccine.

My only worry is that the iterative process to uncover my status in the trial may take more than 24/48 hours and I really don't want to pass up the opportunity to get vaccinated when the offer comes.

I may try to call the study team once I know things are rolling more speedily up here in the Nottingham area. At present it is only the Nottingham University Hospitals hub that are jabbing and I think they are concentrating on the over-80's, those attending clinics for other reasons and care home candidates. Things might speed up as more local hubs come on-stream

17 minutes ago, Bin man said:

Hi Arlowood is that a new report as in the actual wording it says September 2020 

Apologies guys - geriatric foul up. Copied the link without reading it fully. However I'm sure what I read earlier on the news feed did refer to 2021. I'll keep searching but hold off posting until I double check the facts

Reference to my post#1652 above I have found the link to the statement released by the CLIA regarding cruises out of the US being delayed until 15th September

https://www.cruisetradenews.com/clia-extends-us-sailing-suspension-until-15-september/

Whether it will impact on P&O remains to be seen but certainly Carnival will be affected as well as their US based cruise subsidiaries

1 hour ago, hollyjess said:

We live in Caerphilly South wales . Has anyone in this area heard of anyone having received the new vaccine.Also what are your views on PO restarting cruises now that there is another lockdown in place?

Have recently read one of the news feeds on my phone stating that cruising out of the US will now be delayed until September 2021 at the earliest. Those companies involved in the statement include Carnival. I have tried to go back and retrieve the link but can't find it. Will post it hopefully later today if I can dig it out. The statement purported to come from the CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association) - so far I can't see anything on the "Press Room" area of their website but I will keep checking.

If that statement is true then it may have a knock-on effect on P&O's decision making relating to resumption of sailing from the UK.

Here in the East Midlands we're a bit restricted at the moment in terms of the vaccine roll-out, with only the Nottingham University Hospital Group providing a hub as well as one in Derby and one in Leicester. I'm sure many are beavering away in the background but there is a frustrating lack of clarity about what plans are being considered to increase the capacity to vaccinate more.

Thinking laterally I'm wondering if we could take advantage of the new lockdown and look at commissioning some of the secondary schools as vaccine hubs. I know our local GP practice is unlikely to be suitable as a hub since they have limited space to carry out the 15 minute post jab observations. However the local secondary school has a sports arena attached to it that would be ideal if it could be set up quickly. Just musings on my behalf but maybe some merit in them

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

Well not being an expert I would quite like the person sticking a needle in my arm the have some knowledge, like checking it's the right stuff, new needle etc. Out of that list, No's 8and 15 seem a bit unnecessary, but many others seem quite a good idea . Do you think some proof of training may be wise, or are you not too bothered. ?

I saw that list too, but it is maybe worthwhile putting some context behind it. The person who reported that list in a letter to the Times is a recently retired GP. His experience has been mirrored by other retired GP's and health care professionals who have been astonished by the layers of bureaucracy that are required to be satisfied by people who have 20 years and upwards experience in general practice.

I think that a more relaxed approach could be taken for recently retired professionals but maybe I'm naïve and have not fully appreciated the sea of paperwork that now underpins all that goes on in the healthcare industry

3 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

BBC just reporting that 1 million does have  been delivered.  The Astra one will start being given on Wednesday.

Yes but is that 1 million doses that can actually be distributed immediately or is that a bulk consignment of 1 million doses that still has to be broken down into vials for distribution. See my post above.

I suspect that there is a lot of figure fudging going on when what we need is actual doses that can be used  being reported - not bulk doses

46 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

 

Chris Whitty is saying there will be delays to the vaccine for a while: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-chief-medical-officer-chris-whitty-warns-coronavirus-vaccine-shortages-will-last-months-12176673

 

😪

Yes it appears that one of the bottlenecks is the availability of the glass vials to package and distribute the vaccines. Appears to be a world wide shortage at the moment.

Think we need some lateral thought on how to circumvent that problem so that the roll out is not logjammed. Maybe some of those entrepreneurs who came up with the alternative Oxygen Ventilator delivery machine way back in March/April last year could turn their collective expertise to solving this issue.

41 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Getting people to have it in risk order was never going to be perfect, but I look at the bigger picture.

Every person who has the jab is one less person who is at risk, one less person who is likely to spread the virus, one step closer to us all being safer. So you might not feel like you deserve it so soon, but by having it you are helping everyone out a bit

Don't want to sound a negative note but according to Jonathan Van-Tam at yesterday's briefing, we are not yet in a position to claim that those who have been vaccinated are not able to transmit the virus if they become infected - even though they themselves are not badly affected by it due to the inoculation. He said that they are currently working on nailing down that specific question ie can you still carry and transmit the virus after being inoculated.
 

The main message he wanted to stress was that the vaccines would limit, if not eradicate, the incidence of severe health effects on those vaccinated and thus reduce the pressures on the NHS.

1 hour ago, Snow Hill said:

It appears Pfizer don’t agree with JVT and governments plan for moving the doses out to 12 weeks apart as no testing has been done on that basis. This is a very risky strategy by the Government it would appear. 

 

“Pfizer said in a statement that decisions on dosing are up to health authorities, but that there's no data to show how the shot works if people don't get their second injection on time.

"The safety and efficacy of the vaccine has not been evaluated on different dosing schedules as the majority of trial participants received the second dose within the window specified in the study design," Pfizer and BioNTech said.”

Yes - I am a participant in the ongoing trial of the Oxford vaccine and I can confirm a couple of points that have arisen in the discussions above.

Firstly, in my cohort - the over 70's, we were given 2 doses of vaccine or placebo 4 weeks apart. In the overall trial there were some participants in other cohorts who were only given one dose but no mention of any dosing regime that went beyond 4 weeks for the second dose for those that were in the 2 dose group.

Secondly we were provided with home test kits that required us to perform a test on a weekly basis and send the sample for evaluation. We were also required to complete a weekly questionnaire about our movements and activities on a weekly basis - also if we developed any of the COVID symptoms. So on that basis the Oxford trial could be seen as a bit more rigorous than the Pfizer BioNtech but I'm sure there are arguments both ways on the means of defining efficacy.

My dilemma will come when and if I am called forward to receive a jab. At that point I can contact the study organisers to "unblind" my status to find out whether I was given the vaccine or the placebo. Thereafter I will have to decide how to proceed if it turns out that I was in fact given the Oxford vaccine. If I was on the placebo then there is no argument - I will opt to be jabbed.

7 hours ago, joeecco said:

As per P&Os new guidelines, will we as passengers have to source and pay for our own COVID tests or will P&O be wanting to use one company and conduct which tests and how they are conducted themselves so they can be sure if consistency . We went private for our tests to go to Cyprus as we didn’t feel it right taking away from NHS resources for us to go on holiday. It was incredibly simple, test at home 3 days before and then I delivered it in person in London as I work on the railway so that’s easy for us. Other people had lots of stress trying to deliver or post it back in time we heard and other people that used the NHS got results very last minute, and some

not at all! 

I think the COVID testing situation is developing or already has developed into a happy hunting ground for the fly-by-night merchants. I have read several reports of people being let down by companies claiming to do a fast turnaround on tests (principally for meeting the requirements of entry into Cyprus). It appears that some have not received their results in time to upload them to the online entry system and have had to cancel or re-schedule their flights as a consequence. I'm not sure, but to my mind there is no regulatory framework to check the integrity of these testing companies that spring up overnight and I'm afraid that Joe Public ends up paying the price to flag up the purveyors of "snake oil"

I have travelled to Cyprus with Mercury Holidays in the past and they appear to have set up some association with a testing company for their holiday passengers. Have no idea how efficient or reputable that testing lab is but I would have hoped that Mercury would have done some form of assessment before promoting their services.

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Very true Jean, I think our govt are now performing better than the rest of Europe.

It is interesting to see that on the Worldometer covid website we have now dropped to about 11th on their deaths per million listing, below Italy, Spain and Belgium  with the USA and France only just below us.

I would be very reluctant to place any weight on these comparative death tallies around the world. I don't think there is a standard set of criteria for defining a COVID death that is being applied uniformly on an international basis.

We even had our own government admitting that the total death rates reported in the early part of the pandemic were over stated due to COVID being reported on the death certificate of anyone who had tested positive at any time and subsequently died - even if that death was unrelated. The cynic in me thinks that maybe there was an element of Project Fear in the decision to report in that way.

Now our stats report death within 28 days of a positive COVID test result but there is still some doubt about how reliable those figures are.

I am not saying that we don't have a serious and regrettable death rate but I would stop short of making any comparison internationally

I just plugged my details into the vaccine calculator and it gave me a range of dates at the end of January 2021

However I'm in a fairly unique position in that I am currently a trail volunteer for the Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine. My data is obviously still "blind" at the moment so I don't know if I had the vaccine or placebo. If I do get an invite for the Pfizer jab then I can become "unblinded" so that I can decide how to proceed.

I am hopeful that the Oxford jab does get approval soon so that my decision making will perhaps be a bit less complicated.