Mandalay1903

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Perhaps you are right.  But I again ask my basic question which is "what if this virus continues to ravage the world for several years?"   I guess one approach is to simply destroy all the cruise ships, commercial planes, close our schools, etc.  I have just watched a TV show which was talking about the Continental Army at Valley Force which was decimated by small pox.  I guess they could have social distanced, gone home, and sheltered in place.  Thank goodness they did not think that way.

Well, we're only a few months into this but I think there have to be more solid protocols in place for prevention, detection and handling before the cruise lines can run a solid business again. I think Hurtigruten certainly missed preventing, and probably missed detecting an outbreak.  As far as the tragedy at Valley Forge is concerned, let's not mix up wartime with vacation travel.

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I guess one advantage to a really short cruise is that if passengers get COVID they will likely be home before they notice any symptoms.

I appreciate your comments, but I have a counterpoint to this one. A disadvantage to a really short cruise is that passengers who contract COVID on their cruise yet remain asymptomatic until they get home may unknowingly have spread the virus between disembarkation and arrival at home.  Based on the Hurtigruten and Mein Schiff I stories, it sadly seems to me that these cruise lines are premature in ending their pause in operations.

2 hours ago, seaoma said:

Sad news from the experiment by Hurtigruten.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/covid-outbreak-hurtigruten-norway/

...and very sad news about Hurtigruten, thank you for posting.

It seems that this "outbreak" was discovered while docked at their home port. I'm interested in knowing the protocol for cruise lines when an outbreak is detected while underway. Will they be allowed to promptly dock and disembark somewhere, preferably at their turnaround port based on a prearranged agreement, or does it become another ship without a home situation like the Westerdam, Zaandam and others last spring.

31 minutes ago, Crazy For Cats said:

It’s getting later and later.  Crystal just cancelled their remaining 2020 cruises.

Very good call by Crystal. Sadly, I appreciate how HAL has tended to cancel a large batch of cruises at a time, rather than one month at a time like some other lines.

34 minutes ago, Overhead Fred said:

It implies that you only use the form if you want a refund in lieu of the FCCs. Once you get to the form, you can choose the FCCs. Our PCC said using the form would expedite the FCCs getting posted. It worked for us

Thanks so much for this tip. I was mislead by the wording, and will give it a try. I've only paid the 50% deposits via FCD, though, so no biggie.

Not yet. I had one Maasdam cancelled for January 2021 and two Veendams cancelled for August 2021. I've only received the cancellation notice for the Maasdam cruise so far and all three cruises are still unchanged in my account.

Great decision by HAL.

22 hours ago, Indianadaytripper said:

Fred Olson has now decided to send one of its 1325 passenger cruise ship to America for the first time itinerary. Just a start. Imagine a cruise itinerary going from LA to San Fran. to Vancouver every 21 days or so all year long going to the Polynesian Islands with other stops along the way. I believe it would be nearly full every time. Just right for one of these competitors with the right size ship. Just my thoughts 

I think that would make a great itinerary...especially all year long. LA or SD would save so much flying for those on the West Coast.

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Has anyone who actually spoke with HAL mentioned the Polar Code requirements by name?

I mentioned the Polar Code requirements by name to my PCC. But when the response came back from Fleet Operations (see post # 86 in this thread) it was a little vague.

17 hours ago, iceman93 said:

I *wish* HAL would position themselves as offering an elegant on-board experience with gracious service, interesting itineraries, good food, and classy entertainment.

I very much agree with this. I'd hate to see them add a rock climbing wall or a go-cart track on the Westerdam!

Thanks for posting

3 hours ago, Big Dawg CC said:

Looks like Westerdam December 14, 2021 to SA and Antarctica was released this weekend.  Is the consensus then that it will be able to do the normal Antarctica schedule as it will be there December 2021, that is, before new regs take effect? 

2 hours ago, bizeesheri said:

I emailed my PCC and got an out of office until 9/1    Providing no other name to contact   😞

Please refer to post #86 in this thread, where my PCC asked her supervisor to contact HAL Fleet Operations on this question on the Westerdam. That said, there are plenty of other people contributing to this thread who have their doubts about the January 2022 sailing. 

That said, I booked the January 5, 2022 sailing but am considering changing it to the December 2021 sailing. It's just that I don't really want to be away from home during the holidays.

As of our cruise in January 2020 it was there.

1 hour ago, CJcruzer said:

and this is what the whole situation boils down to, in a nutshell.  

 

When someone is diagnosed positive, will it be 1, 20, 100 or 500 people coming down with the virus?  And how many will be critically ill, requiring more urgent care?

 

Carol

Exactly. And how do you manage the remaining 1,000 or 2,000 people who are not ill with the virus?  There needs to be a standardized process for handling both the well and unwell groups, and whether or not the cruise can continue. There need to be advance agreements with countries and ports for safe harbor and disembarkation if Covid-19 is diagnosed on the ship. I should think this would be in the best interests of the cruise lines, the crew organizations, the governments, and the paying passengers. This could take a long time.

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

While it’s good to see some movement on this topic why is the CDC asking our advice?  Aren’t they the medical experts that are supposed to provide us with guidance?  Take the question on limiting cruise length, why would public comments on that have anything to do with the safety of such.

While they're open for comments from the general public, I should think they're most interested in pertinent comments coming from other interested parties related to the cruise industry and its target markets, that are not part of the cruise line organization with whom they're having direct discussions. Travel agents, persons in the medical field, tour companies, airlines, AARP, and so on.

I think the CDC just kicked the tin can (in this case the cruise ship) down the road another three months.

I read a report that Mein Schiff 1 just cancelled their upcoming August cruise quite possibly because several crew members tested positive for Covid-19. If that's the case, it tells me that the cruise industry is nowhere near ready with its protocols for handling crew or passengers who become ill while under way. At this point in July/August 2020, it seems they still feel that their best alternative is to cancel the entire voyage. A cruise ship might be able to screen crew and passengers before boarding, but in order to successfully restart operations they need to demonstrate that they can still safely deliver their product for the paying passengers when someone on board is diagnosed positive.

And certainly no decision will be reached until WELL after the public comment period expires on 9/21/20. By inviting public comment through late September, IMO the US Gov't has guaranteed an extension of the no-sail order until well into Q4 2020 at least. Forget those Q4 2020 cruises involving the US.

Thank you for boze9999 for posting this.

And certainly no decision reached until WELL after the public comment period expires on 9/21/20.  Forget those Q4 2020 cruises touching the US.

Thank you for boze9999 for posting this.

1 hour ago, SilvertoGold said:

HAL Seattle has been working on getting crew home 7 days a week, no time off, since March and they are still working on it. That is a combination of departments with a Senior VP running the show.  I expect all issues are being worked on, one day at a time.

My comment was not a criticism of the great efforts that have been made to make it safe for, and to repatriate, crew. I commented that these tasks are difficult and take a long time.

My comment is that it may be equally or more difficult and time consuming to plan for and make the cruising process (including travel and shore excursions) safe enough for the paying passengers, and to get the CDC to sign off. Particularly when "serious resumption of cruise discussions" haven't even begun (according to Donald's public statement).

2 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:

Fast forward to four months later and the wife of the other couple goes to the doctor for her annual checkup.   They did run a test for antibodies but it came back negative.   However, her doctor did express a lack of confidence in the test as he had patients who had tested positive for the virus months ago and some were getting negative antibody test results.   Our subsequent research plus hearing reports on television tells us COVID-19 antibody test are not reliable plus this particular virus apparently doesn’t necessarily create long lasting antibodies.   Not good news.

I'm not anything close to being in the medical business, but in the past I'd learned that the presence of antibodies tend to fade over time (i.e. months).  But your body "remembers" the attacking virus and can much more easily replicate the defending antibodies. If so, that could explain part of what's going on with the test results. If not, and our bodies can't easily defend against this particular coronavirus a second time, then it seems to me that a vaccine might not do much good.

This quote in the article surprised me: "But even Arnold Donald, CEO of Carnival, acknowledged in an earnings call earlier this month that its dealings with the CDC thus far have only centered on managing the operations pause and crew safety: “We have not actually gotten to the point of serious resumption of cruise discussions with the CDC,” he said. “But of course, that’s coming,”"

If it's taken three months or so to work out managing the operations pause and crew safety (not easy matters and probably still incomplete), I can't imagine how much additional time it will take to work out handling paying passengers and "normal" operations.  I think cruise lines touching US shores will be down for a long time--well beyond 9/30/2020--even if there is a vaccine.

4 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

I am going to try to convince my PCP to order an antibody test for me in this Summer's annual physical.  I sailed on MSC Meraviglia that subsequently reported a Covid case.  Was it before, during, or after my sailing?  Never have I gotten the date for that.  Before returning home after the following cruise on the Eurodam, I became ill.  Nothing serious:  "cruise type of not feeling well".  Arriving home on January 31st, I was ill.  I stayed ill for 5 weeks.  I think I contracted Covid somewhere along the line if not on Meraviglia.  

 

I want that antibody test and I don't care if my insurance covers it or not. 

We had a very similar situation after returning from a Koningsdam cruise in Caribbean in the third week of January. No reported cases aboard, but it was early enough in the outbreak (at the time) that I wouldn't have been surprised with a lack of contact tracing by the cruise line.  Afterwards, my wife had a bad six-week case of cruise crud.  Much worse than normal--bad cough and loss of energy. At the time (February) it didn't match any of the Covid-19 symptoms. But in May or June, the Covid symptom list was expanded, and matched some of those she had been experiencing.  In June we had a chance for a free drive-up antibody blood test in our city and jumped at the chance. Fortunately (or unfortunately), we tested negative and didn't have any Covid-19 antibodies.  Not really sure whether she'd had Covid and her antibodies had dissapated after three months, or whether she had something else like bronchitis. In hindsight we're fairly confident in the latter.

Good luck to you. I recommend the test for the peace of mind one way or another.

Same here. Airfare, port fees, taxes, excursions, and other prepayments refunded to cc. Base cruise fare refunded to cc because that's what we elected. HAL 125% and 150% cancellation bonuses became nonrefundable FCC, which we have applied to future cruises and are still trying to use.

1 hour ago, Germancruiser said:

Aida starts out of Germany in August. I heard the first sailings of Mein Schiff 1 has been canceled due to a crew member testet postiv for Covid19.

The ship I will board on monday is the Mein Schiff 2 - and it is still on... let´s cross fingers... LOL!

Fingers crossed for you.  But if upcoming MS1 sailings had to be canceled because of one crew member testing positive that means to me that the MS1 ship and the line isn't ready for sailing at all, much less with passengers aboard.  They clearly don't have their protocols set up yet to handle an outbreak or even one Covid-19 case and continue the cruise for everyone else as they often do with other illnesses.

3 hours ago, jbpcalifornia said:

We are optimistically considering an August 2021 cruise on the Zaandam, but are concerned that all of the Vista Suites either have common areas above or below.  Does anyone know of any of the Vista Suites on the Navigation or Veranda decks (only choices for vista suites) which have no noise issue with the areas above or below?  Thanks,

We had AA6195 on the starboard side of the Verandah Deck. Situated above the Future Cruises office and just ahead of the stairs. Very quiet and very convenient. It's also convenient to, but not too close to the public deck at the stern.