BouncingWheel

Seems positive news to me and I guess that is why the shares are going back up now. However, I do take the news on 2023 bookings etc... against 2019 numbers with a pinch of salt because it is the value of the bookings and not the number which is important. Then later, it will be the spend of those passengers against equivalents. The $ comments mentioned do seem to mostly be favourable though. This could mean those that recently bought shares may have bought at the low point and we may now have had our answer to posted question: Thursday 23rd June. We will know for sure over the coming weeks.

It's just like football when they substitute the substitute. So what is the cruise equivalent on bringing on a goalkeeper just for a penalty shootout I wonder?

The issue is mainly with children 2-4 (used to be able to leave in Kids club and now must stay with them) and families with multiple children of different ages (may be in different cahorts at different times so again always have one in tow). These parents want a bit of time for themselves but it is not possible at the moment. However, P&O have explained it in their before you sail blurb on the website if you look in all the detail. The outcome IMHO is sail if current restrictions are acceptable to you and transfer (or don't book and wait) if it is not. We did notice a side impact on a recent cruise of this policy - it leads to a lot more kids than average in the main areas - they would usually be more in the clubs area.

Thanks for notifying us though @BeebMarc. We now know P&O policy has spread into August and definitely peak holiday season. The last news we had on this policy, and this standard email, was a July cruise. If it is like this for August (when some had said there were more temporary staff available for this area due to certified people joining crew on school holidays) then I think we are still some time away from Kids clubs being back in proper operation. Think I have to delay my plans for my niece and her daughter - was hoping for an October cruise.

Obviously some have better than others and Flaam have drawn the line somewhere and QM2 is unfortunately the wrong side of that line. Whether we think the line is fair or correct is irrelevant as it is their port and their rules. Would be nice to know before arriving/departing/paying balance/booking etc... but who knows when Cunard were informed of this rule.

This thread will be useful https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2859247-po-help-kids-club-supervisionargh/#comment-63405497

The summer school holidays will lead to a lot of complaints if they don't resolve this. I knew about the cahorts system and issues for 2-4 year olds and no night nursery but I didn't realize that even the cahorts were restricted to 1 short session a day as mentioned in this thread. This was an area where P&O excelled and although I sympathize with crew issues they have had months now to onboard and train people.

It is evolving but will still be the same in July according to other threads on here where cruisers with children have posted letters from P&O informing/reconfirming the reduced kid club offering for their cruises. No news yet for anything August onwards and we are all waiting for this aspect to return to normal but it appears to be one of the very last to do so for some reason - I have not heard of any explanation why this area should not have returned whilst others have. As your cruise is October then it is still more than 3months away and you can still transfer your cruise. I am not urging you to transfer but pointing out that you still have up to the 3months before (P&O balance due date) to decide and although that may only be as little as 2 weeks away it still gives you some time to evaluate and digest this information and maybe gather more 1st hand feedback from this and other media sites.

Probably said in jest but a bit harsh and that title would suggest a thread on financial advice and not financial comment which is what I took the original poster was aiming for. This thread has led to some good information for which I am grateful for. .

p.s Please don't feel guilty. The holiday is for you as well as your children. You are providing them with a great holiday with lots of memories and are entitled to your some own time and memories as well as shared ones.

This is "Covid" Policy and is has been on the P&O website for ages. It has meant a worse experience for these parents BUT P&O have been upfront about it on their website (with all the other items on how Covid impacts cruisers) and they also offer flexible transfers to those that want an alternative. My advice is transfer your cruise to a later date. You will not enjoy this cruise as your expectations will not be met and you will always be thinking about what your cruise should be like whilst onboard. I have met people on board recent cruises that felt letdown and unhappy due to this and others that knew how it was going to be beforehand and accepted it so lowered expectations and had a great time. On the plus side, you know about it now rather than discovering it for the first time when onboard.

And therein lies the problem I think and why on paper the shares can currently look undervalued (as you excellently explained) but if Carnival wanted/needed, for example, to offload the whole Princess brand there are not buyers around in the current climate for those ships at the balance sheet value and Carnival would have to take a loss. This is probably why the shares are where there are and will only start to move up when either confidence in the whole industry increases and ships get bought & sold readily again and/or Carnival sees increases in profits and it's debt, as you mentioned, refinanced at lower rates.

How close is Iona to sailing at full capacity now? I see a number of people who were worried about the bigger ships being won over by Iona by the greater choice etc... but were these representative of a true cruise under normal numbers as that is probably the biggest worry for many of us deliberating about moving up to a bigger ship. I think we would all like to have the best dining and entertainment options etc... but the bigger the ships the more likelihood of bottlenecks in popular places. I haven't sailed on Iona yet - will give it a try because you only know yourself once you have tried for yourself - but I did a sailcation on Britannia (half full) and it was lovely but then again on Britannia in April when it was about 80-85% full (with some Covid restrictions for no sitting at bars etc..) and people were getting very annoyed at not being able to access the Vista lounge due to no room and other areas showed congestion. This is my biggest concern and I am worried with Iona that we have not had "real" (I apologise for the bad choice of that word but have struggled for a better one) reviews yet as it has never sailed under full capacity and normal post-covid conditions.

The background information provided by @molecrochip was indeed useful. I also have shares but bought fairly low (but above what they are now) and based on the old adage "buy only what you you can afford to lose". However, I also agree with @Selbourne regarding assets in that surely they are only worth what others are prepared to pay and there does not seem to be buyers for 2nd hand cruise ships at present though at least the scrapping of them seems to have more or less stopped. I am guessing their value on the balance sheet is far higher than scrap value.

Maybe some of the shows have been duplicated on some of the ships but certain ships (e.g. Britannia upwards) have technical specification that is not on the older ships so could not be performed (not sure the exact wording as my daughter in the industry explained it to me). Therefore I can imagine some basic shows being available/shown on all ships and some other shows being seen on Britannia & Iona but to say all the shows are always the same on all ships is probably a bit extreme. I am a lover of the smaller ships but the shows that I have seen in the bigger ships have been better in my opinion.

Website says (and has for some time) that the flexible transfer policy is for 2022 departing cruises. People on here have had success going from higher price to lower price cruise for 2023 so it does seem to be down to pot luck who you get on the phone.

Yes those are the official 2023 rules as the flexible transfer is only officially 2022. However, lots of people seem to have moved 2023 cruises successfully so it seems to be down to which TA/P&O person you speak to. If you want to switch it then I would try again and hope you speak to someone different.

I see where you are coming from but do hope that you are wrong. Only time will tell. I just hope that sometime over the summer we find out one way or the other for this and the other few remaining "COVID changes" that are still in place.

Ventura is my preference for the niece's 1st group based on lots of feedback. It is not a ship I have been on but has good reviews for families. As mentioned I was on Britannia in April and the kids club were grouped by age into "Cohorts". This separated some families and the disgruntled parents I came across were the ones that had their kids in sessions at different times meaning they always had at least 1 child with them so no down time to themselves. They understood the kids would be in different groups due to their ages but couldn't understand why they couldn't have sessions at the same time even if in different groups. It seem to be a first come first serve situation.

I would also say that I am paying special interest to the activities for children as I am trying to book a cruise with my niece and her 3 year old for later this year. It will be their first cruise so am waiting for night nursery etc.. to return.

They do need to get their act together! I know the emails have been going out to some as they have been posted on here in other threads but I was on a Britannia cruise end of April and although I had no kids there were some disgruntled parents then that had not been made aware of the reduced children facilities. As for emails booking a restaurant that isn't open that is now just gonna lead to post replies that will top that one🤣

My understanding is that it is only sent to those that have children and not to all passengers. Planned cruise of 2024 means current state of play should not really be a factor anyway. I'm sure that you will find lots of options for your family to choose from.

When are you planning to go? At present the Kids clubs are not operating normally - it seems to be one of the last things to be returning. Other posts have indicated that it will not be back by July and P&O have sent out emails to those on these cruises informing them of that. If you are planning on a last minute cruise be aware of that although and although there are still items for children they are reduced. If it is in the future then I am sure you can book and move to a later cruise (before payment date) if normal operations have not returned if that is what you are after.

it might seem that some do not do this but some in fact do it so quickly that you do not even notice or you only notice it when it goes wrong. I believe timings also have a lot to do with this. Some are presented and dropped quickly but if weekend, bank holidays or later in the day then some of the ones that usually disappear will hang around longer than normal.

They may look dangerous but they are skilled "drivers". My family have done it and if there had been loads of accidents then I'm sure you would know about it. However, our experience is that you cannot ride all the way down. It takes you about halfway where there are taxis waiting to rip you off to get you back to the bottom.