KnowTheScore

What kind of news or info are you wanting Adawn47?

13 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Why do you think you would be less safe on a cruise than going to your local supermarket where a bloke has just returned from a skiing trip north of Milan?  I reckon you could catch it here just as easily, maybe more easily than on a cruise.

Why?  I guess because on a ship, they could quarantine all the passengers to their cabins as per the Diamond Princess scenario and keep them there 1-2 weeks.  

At a supermarket I catch the virus from say a trolley, get sick, stay home, treat myself like I would do any other ailment, with all my home comforts, all my chosen remedies, able to make and cook my own meals with immune boosting ingredients and so on. 

No comparison.

5 hours ago, shiny1 said:

so we’re two older adults that are scheduled to leave in a couple of weeks for an 11 day Panama Canal cruise. Stops in various ports, which none of those ports so far, have any known outbreaks of this virus. However, my concern, as with many others, is where everyone is traveling from and if they could have been exposed or be a symptomatic. We did take the ships insurance which includes cancel for any reason up to sail date. We’re so undecided. Just wondering what other opinions might be?!! My Physician said, in his opinion, he would not take the risk.

Regardless of any outbreaks at port destinations, how confident can you be that just ONE passenger will not walk onto your ship with COVID-19?

Remember that the virus has an incubation period of up to 14 days and there will be no fever or visible symptoms at the outset.

All it takes is for that single person to walk on your ship with you and then a few days later start with real symptoms, report to the medical centre and then get confirmed with the virus.  At that point you have the risk that your cruise becomes a Diamond Princess prison nightmare.

If you are prepared to risk that and are sure you would manage being locked in your cabin for 2 weeks and if you are ok about the possibility that you might miss one or more ports on your itinerary and if you are in good enough health that you're not worried about catching the virus yourself,  then go for it and enjoy the holiday.

13 hours ago, davecttr said:

About the Glasshouse - The venues on Azura and Ventura follow the original concept of a relaxed casual bar where you can pay for food by the item. The have a dining area but the majority of the area is 'bar' and the bar itself is lengthy.  They even retain the smart casual code on formal evenings, although the P&O site states otherwise. The retrofitted Glasshouses in other ships show that P&O are trying to turn them into a restaurant, obviously because they make more money out of food than drinks. Take Britannia for example. a soulless place overlooking the atrium and declared formal on formal nights. this is a joke because it is a transit area so you get a constant stream of casually dressed people wandering through. Also true of Oceana, the Rotten Compost formal/ nah, it is the main access to the theatre.

The Glass House venues were introduced and designed as up and trendy wine bar/restaurants where they anticipated passengers paying for drinks, wine flights, lunches and evening meals.  They were originally sponsored or promoted by Olly Smith.  At that time they were exactly that.  Sparkling vibrant wine bars, a great place for after dinner drinks and even a special cheese board and equally good for an alternative lunch.

Somehow, somewhere down the line the drop in standards, quality and other cuts has reduced these Glass House venues to little more than a basic cruise lounge that just happens to sell drinks and food.   It's not too different to an airport café, a place with constant traffic running through (which isn't going to the Glass House) and full of people just using it for somewhere to hang out with little or no intention of buying a drink or eating food.  As stated earlier they sit there reading, knitting, sleeping and many other things.  That is NOT The definition of a trendy wine bar/restaurant.  It's just a nonsense especially when it's a venue where they charge extra money for the food. 

I highly suspect OP doesn't properly understand how the dispensers work.

I would be absolutely staggered if there were any kind of spout visible to the user.  It would constitute a complete design fault and I simply don't believe it to be the case.

The gel will, I'm sure, simply fall through a hole in the plastic and there will be no way at all for any passenger to touch the bag inside or the gel exit point (on the bag itself)

Passengers do touch the plastic unit lots of times yes but they will not be touching any spout or any part of the gel bag inside.

Therefore there can not be any contamination coming from the gel itself which will be dispensed through the hole in the plastic without ever coming into contact with that plastic.

There IS a contamination risk concerning the plastic unit itself.  If people have touched that plastic then anyone else who touched the plastic will get cross-contamination.

So all one needs to do is NOT touch the plastic in any way and you're absolutely sound.

This same dispensing principle is often used with drinks dispensers.  They are common in work offices.

The water or other drink is dispensed through a hole in the unit and so anyone using their own grubby cup can not contaminate the drink inside.  They can only contaminate the surrounding unit.

4 hours ago, Justalone said:

 

Are you booked or booking a cruise for 2020/2021 that makes port calls in Italy and/or Spain?  Other Mediterranean countries like Greece or Croatia?

 

Yes I was.  I had a cruise booked in March that was centred around Spain and Portugal.   I will not be going on it now.

Cruise lines need to change their protocols or get CDC/WHO or whoever to let them change their protocols in relation to COVID-19.   Until they do anyone who cruises risks being stuck on a "death ship" scenario like the Diamond Princess.

That prospect is totally unacceptable to me personally.   The ball is in the cruise line's court.   Something HAS to change.

I also have a cruise to Spain/Italy later in the year and another to the Canaries.  I will be cancelling them both.

The current mortality rate is approx. 3%

Would I take that risk?  Quite possibly.

But would I take the risk that if I cruise there may be a passenger or crew member confirmed with COVID-19 on the ship which would then result in a Diamond Princess "death ship" nightmare with all passengers confined to cabins for 2 weeks whilst everyone gets the virus ?   No absolutely not.    Not now, not ever.

Neither would I shell out £000s on a cruise where there is very reasonable possibility that one or more ports may turn the ship away due to the COVID-19 situation.

The cruise industry is heading for a complete impasse imho.  It has imho shown that it has little idea what to do when there is a confirmed case on board and that it is prepared to imprison passengers when it happens.   It has also thus far AFAIK failed to play ball and agree to compensate passengers for any ports missed due to Coronavirus protocols (correct me if this is wrong).

I appreciate the virus is not the fault of the cruise lines but they are now operating in a known risk sector and should thus "share the pain" instead of expecting the customer to take all the risk and pay all the money.

The industry now has to, as a matter of some urgency I would think, work with the ruling powers and so-called authoritative bodies like the CDC/WHO etc to agree some kind of relaxation of the rigid quarantining and response protocols that they have thus far imposed on everyone in relation to COVID-19.    Unless and until that happens it is likely pretty much Game Over for the entire cruise industry and a number of other travel related industries.  

Time is of the essence here and the current stock scripted responses from cruise lines to customer's emails and concerns are simply not going to cut the mustard.  It's no use saying "passenger safety is our primary concern" and "we will follow the advice and guidelines of the CDC/WHO or whoever".  That's simply a cop out which offers no guarantees to customers whatsoever and means they ARE very much still at the risk of a "Death Ship" style nightmare.

Cruise lines MUST imho find and agree with the CDC/WHO an acceptable way to respond to reported COVID-19 cases without going to Def Con 4 all the time and without turning the ship into a quarantine prison for all.  Simple as that.

If they don't . . . .  . well so long and thanks for all the fish !

31 minutes ago, davemorton said:

But the amount you are saving by booking P&O over some other cruise lines easily leaves a buffer to go to a pay option every night.  I had a cruise last year where I did not get my dining option, so used to just dine in the pay options, usually the glass house where a lovely meal can be had for very little.  Yes, thats not the point, but its an option, and not an expensive one. 

Look for solutions, not problems. 

Yep I share that idea and very nearly did exactly that on an Arcadia cruise some years ago.

However the problem now is that I have found even the alternative dining restaurants to be of far lesser quality that they used to be too.  On Ventura recently I found Sindhu restaurant to be extremely lesser quality than before and the Beach House I have previously found very very average.   I agree with you that the Glass House can be a good alternative and they used to do special food tasting nights which I've done but unfortunately on Ventura the restaurant during the day is open to people parading past when they pile out of the theatre and during the day you have people sitting there reading books, playing cards, knitting or just lolling there asleep.  Hardly an enticing venue to go and have a meal in.    There is one tiny cordoned off section of Glass House on Ventura which is okay if you can get a table.

Either way though what ever price I am paying for the cruise is little different to the year before and the year before that and yet we are now getting far worse food and much less of it on the plate.  And the food is just one of a plethora of aspects that have likewise degraded.

5 hours ago, Britboys said:

Whilst we are talking P&O food - This thread is not the first time I have seen someone compare the mdr food to School Dinners.  All I can say is that I wish my old schools had served dinners something like I have since had on P&O.  I have on occasion eaten in a Wetherspoons pub and whilst the food has been very acceptable for the price paid, I can still happily say that on my most recent P&O cruise I still felt the mdr food was better than a Wetherspoons.  I totally accept it is not fine dining any more but imho it is still a step up from a standard local pub...

I guess the nature of the problem Britboys is that the food quality is not consistent across the fleet and isn't even consistent on an individual ship.   Much depends on who the Executive Chef is on your ship.  Yet regardless, one meal can be like a school dinner, another like Weatherspoons and another can be truly lovely and tasty.   It's a complete lottery and if you cruise often enough you come to learn what dishes to avoid.   Puddings I find really poor now where they previously used to be really good.  Some starters are abysmally small and sparse, some main courses also.  We don't need massive portions on a cruise I know but some dishes just take the biscuit.

I appreciate also that if there are any problems with food you can inform the waiter and he/she will fix it or bring another dish but then you put the entire dining table out of kilter and sequence.   You end up making everyone else wait for you because your fixed dish came after they'd all eaten their courses.   It's just poor.  The food should be good quality consistently and should certainly be way better than pub food for the £000s we are paying.

I wish I could buy a cruise ticket that did not include the food and instead Pay As You Go with food same as you do with drinks, but of course the cruise lines ain't gonna let us do that.  We get given lesser quality food, and less of it for the same ticket price as before.  Hence for me the value or money proposition is adversely affected.  That amongst hundreds of other disappointments, cuts and niggles is why I am switching cruise lines now.

2 hours ago, 2BACRUISER said:

Finally got DH to agree to doing a 7 nighter in May and found Ventura cruise N009 with ports we like the sound of (all Portugal and Spain) ...the deal is only good if booked before March 1st but since these Coronavirus cases in Italy DH has got cold feet and told me to hold off as with it been so close suspect we will have to pay in full at time of booking. 

Have any of you been put off booking late deals? 

My advice is look after your health, sanity and life.   Money is not a consideration.  Don't put yourself in the undesirable position where you have fully paid for a cruise but don't really want to take it.  

As with Harry there is no way I would cruise at the current time. Too many risks.

I was due to sail in March and have fully paid for the cruise but there is absolutely no way we are going.

The situation in Italy is not good and one has to anticipate that the same will happen in Spain and Portugal soon enough and of course also in the UK.

I would also think carefully about the ship you choose.  If you did (God forbid) end up in a situation like the Diamond Princess then would you want to be on say the IONA with 6000 people, Ventura with 3000 people or Aurora with just 1500?

It's an easy choice for me.

In your situation I personally would hold off but you have to make your own decision.   Take solace in the fact that there will be a plethora of really cheap cruise deals as the virus situation progresses.  You make be able to pick up an absolute bargain later on.

ATB

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 6:51 AM, Harry Peterson said:

The outbreak of Coronavirus has hit an already weak Carnival share price:

 

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/c/carnival-plc-ordinary-usd1.66

 

For anyone considering buying, this could be an opportunity, though there's room obviously for further downward movement, depending on events.

I sold all the shares I held at the recent high of £37

I would consider myself an idiot to buy any at this point.   The COVID-19 situation is just going to get worse imho and the impact to ALL cruise lines not just Carnival will be nothing short of devastating imho.

Both RCI and Carnival have already put out profit/earnings warnings.

I personally believe the Carnival share will go a great deal lower as the year progresses.

A great opportunity to invest again is sure to present itself later on provided the authorities change the restrictive and unattractive quarantining measures that are currently enforced for COVID-19.  Until they do people will likely cancel their cruises in significant numbers (I'm sure they already are doing) and will give cruising a wide berth for the foreseeable.

I will keep an eye on the situation but honestly I think the next 6 months to 12 months is going to be a huge indicator for the share price

10 hours ago, momofmeg said:

They learned from the Diamond Princess that  a cruise ship is not a good place to quarantine people.  Doing that spread the virus instead of the opposite.That will not be repeated. Yes, you could be quarantined if exposed on a cruise but it would be off ship.

That unfortunately would add a whole new dimension for people in terms of their choice of initeraries.

Instead of thinking, where in the world would I most like to visit,

they will instead be thinking, where in the world would I most NOT want to be sent off to, to be quarantined?

Would I want to be marched off a ship in Morocco and quarantined there for 2 weeks?  Errr no thanks

Turkey? Africa? China? Japan? Korea?   Nope no thanks

and so on.

You'll end up struggling to fill cruises with certain destinations and people will instead favour places nearer to home where they feel that there will be decent medical treatment and where UK nationals will be reasonably treated.

No that whole situation just isn't going to fly going forward.  It won't do.

We have to get to a situation where COVID-19 itself is not treated like bubonic plague and where it is instead treated like ordinary cold/Flu.  It is the CDC and WHO and the like who are currently forcing the world to respond to virus cases in the way that is currently happening.   That simply can not continue, otherwise the cruise industry and many other travel and other businesses are simply finished.

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We see posters talking about cancelling Caribbean cruises, which at this time, are not even in an area with Coronovirus issues.  Folks are scared and/or being very cautious.   

Forgot to raise this point with you.   FYI 2 ports in the Caribbean have already turned cruise ships away.

https://www.ship-technology.com/news/coronavirus-caribbean-deny-entry-cruise-ship/

"Caribbean island nations Saint Lucia and Dominica have denied entry of the cruise ship AIDAperla into their shores as they were carrying a large number of sick passengers on board.

The Department of Health and Wellness of Saint Lucia said that the decision to deny permission on 1 February was taken to protect the health and safety of the citizens."

There was no COVID-19 on-board but the ships were turned away regardless.

So there IS impact in the Caribbean and I predict we will see more and more of this as the virus spreads globally.

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We think its time to start a macro topic on what impact the CoronoVirus will have on the industry.  From what we are reading here on multiple CC blogs and seeing on other social media we now think the impact will be huge. 

 

Hank

Hi Hank

I'm relatively new here so don't understand who you are referring to when you say "We think it's time to start a macro topic"

Could you elucidate please.

Aside from that yes I totally agree that the COVID-19 situation is going to devastate the cruising industry and likely a number other industries and businesses related to both travel and holiday provision.  I personally think at this time that the cruise industry is staying pretty quiet and has been hoping to play the entire thing down when it knows patently that lots of cruises are going to be compromised either by having COVID-19 on-board or by having people with cold/flu on-board and thus having to see ports refuse entry until people can be tested and cleared.

I've outlined in another thread the true heart of the problem.

The problem is NOT with the virus.  The problem is NOT with people overly worrying about contracting the virus (as they will surely get it on land soon enough anyway as it spreads).

The problem is solely and 100% the imposed medical protocols and quarantining powers of the authorities that are currently associated with this specific virus.

We know already that compared to Flu, this virus is utter child's play.  Flu kills 100s of 1000s of people every year.

The CRUCIAL difference is that when we get Flu, whether on land or at sea, the authorities are not required to suddenly go to Def Con 4 and march in with hazmat suits and lock everyone in their cabins for 2 weeks or alternatively march people off the ship to some foreign containment or FEMA style camp.

THAT is the problem with COVID-19.  It is how it is being treated by the CDC and WHO and thus the desperate nightmare scenarios that are FORCED on travelling passengers as a result.

I personally feel I know exactly why they are doing this and making such a big deal of it but that's another story (let's just say vaccine sales and leave it there !)

Meanwhile this authoritative 1984 style dystopian approach to the virus WILL absolutely cripple and devastate the industry and will continue to do so pretty much indefinitely unless and until they change their approach.

It's crazy that whilst Flu kills 100s of 1000s of people a year that they don't take the same quarantine measures when someone on a ship gets Flu.  Thereby imho can we tell the true reason they are making such a huge issue of COVID-19 (did I mention vaccine sales?!).   If Flu kills vastly more people than COVID-19 then surely when someone gets Flu on a ship they should equally be quarantining the victim and quarantining the rest of the passengers in their cabin for the duration just as they are for COVID-19.

But they aren't.

So the cruise industry has an enormous problem and could feasibly be held totally to ransom by the CDC and WHO.

The ONLY WAY that the industry will be able to effectively operate going forward is if the CDC and WHO relax this astonishing response protocol to someone coming down with the virus.   They are going to have to allow cruise lines to simply quarantine and/or remove an infected passenger whilst allowing everyone else to get on with their holiday.   Just as with cases of Flu, cruise passengers are going to have to be allowed to take their chances on the ship and exercise their own personal hygiene standards and avoid sneezing and coughing passengers.

The situation is even more demanding than this though.  In order to quarantine a victim of COVID-19 you are going to need to determine if they have it, rather than just having basic cold/Flu/ILI symptoms.   As there is up to a 14 days incubation period with COVIS-19 you have a dilemma.   If the cruise staff see a person sneezing and coughing with those basic cold/Flu symptoms should they take them away immediately and quarantine them and begin testing for COVID-19 or should they let them simply carry on and see if they become so badly infected that they need real medical support down below?

We know that with Norovirus we immediately quarantine the victim in cabin for 48-72 hrs no question.

It seems likely then then that cruise lines will have to immediately quarantine anyone with cold/Flu symptoms in a similar way as a precaution in case they actually have COVID-19.   Given the plethora of people with colds/Flu/ILIs on ships such a protocol would see countless people confined to cabins and that's not going to go down well.

And even that is not the end of the dilemma, no the hits just keep a-coming.

Once you have people with cold/Flu/ILI symptoms confined in cabins you are then duty bound to inform any port you are due to visit about that and then you are at the mercy of that port authority as to whether ANYONE on the ship is going to be allowed to disembark.  If there is even the potential that one or more passengers might have COVID-19 then they may well refuse permissions simply to protect the local area and rest of the country.

What that equates to is that cruise lines can no longer realistically offer or guarantee any specific cruise experience.

I realise that even now an element of that exists.  There is always the possibility that a port might be missed for a variety of reasons but those are usually either freak weather conditions or some technical problem or if the ship has an inordinate amount of sick passengers on-board with something like Norovirus.  Everyone who cruises accepts that risk because the practical reality is that it is a small risk.  It happens but not that often.

Now if you are going to start quarantining people any and every time they get the sniffles then it tends to follow for me that lots of ports are going to be missed unless and until you can convince every country, every port on your itinerary that they shoulder the risks of letting passengers off when there is the possibility of someone having COVID-19 but who has not yet completed testing.   So this will require international co-operation.  It's mutually beneficial for ports and cruise lines to be co-operative because that's how they jointly make lots of money.  But there are political elements involved, the idea that a port puts everyone else in a local town or city at risk is unpalatable to many people so it might be difficult to achieve.

So where are we ?

To all practical intents and purposes the cruise industry is currently, imho, Daffy Ducked.

The threat of a Diamond Princess episode will keep customers away even if they don't think that they themselves will get the virus.   It's the chance that someone else will that is the issue and that will result in another Diamond Princess nightmare.

And if that IS going to happen I strongly submit it's going to happen via one of the crew because those people are on the ship for up to 9 months and getting on and off the ship all over the globe.   As the virus spreads the chances that a crew member will pick up COVID-19 ashore and bring it back aboard rises exponentially.  There is nothing a paying passenger can do about that problem.

So in summary:

1. For the cruise industry to survive this situation at all it 100% MUST NOT react to an on-board virus case in the way that the Diamond Princess did.  If CDC/WHO protocols demand that kind of response, then it is game over for cruising.

2.  Cruise lines are going to have to let passengers take their chances just as they do now with Flu or Norovirus on-board

3.  Ports across the globe likewise are going to have to allow passengers to disembark and all the locals likewise will have to just take their chances as they also do now with Flu.

4.  In addition, thus far unmentioned, the travel insurance companies are also going to have to play ball

I hope some of that makes sense.  Sorry for the long post but it's a complex situation.

KTS

4 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Posted by Harry Petersen

1  It's cheap

2  It's still living on its past reputation

3  It's now aiming at what the CEO recently referred to as the Saturday night ITV  market, which says it all - think Wetherspoons.

 

I've seen it change dramatically in just a few years, but others who've been cruising longer will see even more of a difference.  But, to be fair, it is cheap, and basically it's a question of getting what you pay for.

I can only echo the above sentiments.

It very much IS living on its past reputation but the long standing customer base which includes myself is well aware of what the past reputation was built on and the drastically different product that is now being offered.

Even those awful adverts with Rob Brydon are enough to make me cringe.   "Those glazed scallops won't eat themselves"!!

Clever bit of advertising (as it's really taking about alternative dining)  because you won't be getting anything like glazed scallops in your MDR you'll be getting, imho, very plain and uninspiring dishes of meat/fish and next to no veg, presented with little to no panache.  Weatherspoons is certainly a fair comparison for some of it, school dinners is appropriate for other parts of it.

Then there are short moments where one particular dish is really extremely good but they are few and far between.  All in all the entire dining experience is just, as the social media youf would say  . . . . Meh !!

It is what it is.  It's not special, it's not like a special night out each evening it's just like going down your local pub.   Mass made food, very average quality, and frequently with problems for at least one table member whether food cold, over salted, missing core components or whatever.  The past attention to detail is gone, the pride and panache of previous grandstanding dishes is gone, the overall experience is just so blandly average.

The only thing that saves it is as Harry stated, the fabulous table companions you occasionally run into.

It is what it is, and what it is, is a cheap average quality product reflecting the relentless cuts by Carnival and the cheaper ticket price.  You DO very much get what you pay for and nothing beyond.

If that's the kind of cheap and cheerful cruise experience you want then P&O is a good choice for you.

For myself, if I'm going to spend £000s on a holiday, I want something vastly different to what I get in my local pub and I want to dine in an atmosphere each night that is akin to attending a glamorous wedding reception with like-minded people.

So no longer for me personally.   Each to their own.

Can only echo OP's points.

As a long standing P&O customer I no longer see the value for money that used to exist.

Everything is sub-quality and dumbed down compared to a few years ago.  Just too many cuts by Carnival.

Not for me any more

Now moving to Celebrity

6 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Someone should do research on how short the life of a virus is outside of a host.  A clue, keep everyone off the ship for a couple of hours, or let's say 2 days, to be safe, and there won't be a live virus left.

 

Avoiding that ship because of that quarantine is superstition, not science.

Some cold viruses can survive for 7 days or more on surfaces.

But the point is completely moot TBH

You now have a situation where COVID-19 has been introduced to the world population and thus it is now with us for all time.  It's never going to go away no more than Flu does and of course as soon as the pharmaceuticals start peddling a vaccine we will have the same cyclical process that we have now with Flu.    Ever wondered why Flu is seasonal?   Do you think flu viruses pack their bags in summer and go on their holidays and then come back with a vengeance over winter?  Yep perhaps that's a possibility.  Or maybe it's because they vaccinate kids with LIVE flu virus and they go running around oblivious to hygiene standards and spreading and shedding the virus for days afterward thereby ensuring that everyone else gets flu and creates a lovely yearly market for the adult flu vaccines !!

COVID-19 I predict will be no different.  It will become the latest $billion dollar money making business in no time at all.  They will  likely also use it as an excuse to make vaccines mandatory.

Anyway, the point is that even if you make the Diamond Princess a ghost ship for a week and clear it of bugs, you will just get some passenger or crew member walk back on board with it completely unwittingly during that 14 day incubation period, having no clue they have the virus and that they are spreading it to everyone else.

The net result is that cruising is pretty much knackered in perpetuity from this point onward.  If the industry is going to have any chance of surviving at all then it is going to have to make some agreement with the CDC and WHO to change how they manage outbreaks of COVID-19 when they happen.   Quarantining all passengers in their cabins on "death ships" is simply not going to be acceptable every time it happens.

We already live with Influenza.

When we get Flu on-board we don't go locking everyone up in their cabins.  We have to move toward a situation where the same is true for COVID-19.   When someone gets it you have to give everyone else the choice to leave the ship and fly home or to stay on-board as a free passenger and take their chances.

If they don't do this the cruising industry is simply finished.

It is not the threat of catching the virus that is of prime concern, it is the forced security and medical protocols that currently surround COVID-19 that are the issue.  Until that situation changes I won't be cruising again simple as.

3 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

That’s a major departure from the rest of the industry. What sort of gaming is available, given that statistically you can’t beat a casino on games of chance such as roulette, particularly with a double zero, overall.

 

Gambling winners are very rare creatures, and usually end up barred.

I would agree with you Harry.   I think it's not so much big winners but rather those who crave attention and Bet Big.

It's the big betters that attract people not winners.  Every spin of the roulette wheel there are winners and losers.

It's boring to watch, pretty mundane and not really that much entertainment value.  I can certainly think of many other things to spend my cash on for entertainment value.

No it's the fools who still think casinos are like James Bond films and want to present a persona of the big flamboyant man for whom money is no issue.  The ones who place huge piles of chips on the roulette table.   Such people are habitual and large losers and casinos love them but because they play a lot then occasionally the right number comes up and suddenly the croupier's dolly is sat on top of that large pile of chips.   THAT is what attracts the crowds.

The player is a massive loser because the game is a losing proposition but that occasional "hit" gives the hapless addicted gambler the mental stimulant to keep playing.  A bit like playing golf.  It's a hugely frustrating game when you start out but every now and then you hit that ball right in the sweet spot off the tee and the ball shoots off with a satisfying zing and that keeps you hooked. 

I have dabbled with casinos in the past and learned some very interesting things and even on a roulette table 1-1 with a croupier have had their skills demonstrated.  The top croupiers can spin a ball on that wheel into a chosen arc of about 5 numbers no problem at all.   You can only win therefore if THEY want and let you win.  There will be the usual detractors and sceptics in relation to this, and I'm not interested.  I've seen it done and now I know.

If you want to win money at the roulette table on a ship then there is one way to improve your chances significantly.

Every time your number comes up and the croupier pays you a pile of chips, throw some back to them as a tip.  They are permitted to accept tips and once they know that when you win, they also win, you will magically get more wins.  Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

All this said I don't ever participate in ship's gambling facilities these days and in particular the ship's Bingo which I find absolutely disgusting..  The amount of the takings that the house keep in the bingo is imho immoral and sickening.  I highlighted it once to the person hosting the bingo on the last day.  I calculated they had taken many many thousands of pounds in ticket sales and yet were only paying out just over £1000 for the final jackpot prize.  The host could only look lamely at me and suggest I go talk to the casino management.

All of it is a total mugs game.   But mugs there are a plenty on cruises

You can read Carnival's announcement in relation to financial impact here:

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/CCL/carnival-update-on-financial-impact-of-coronavirus-ields3qewuftf43.html

15 minutes ago, richstowe said:

If the last two posts are any indication of popular sentiment , the cruise industry and in fact the entire travel industry, are in BIG trouble . 

They already are and they already know it.   Royal Caribbean already announced an earnings shortfall.

"Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd on Thursday said it had cancelled 18 cruises in Southeast Asia and joined larger rival Carnival Corp in warning that its full-year earnings would be hit by the coronavirus outbreak."

"Last week, Royal Caribbean said it canceled eight cruises out of China through March 4 and warned of a 25 cent impact to its first quarter earnings."

"The company said the 18 canceled cruises would cut its full-year earnings per share by 65 cents, warning that cancelling all its remaining sailings in Asia through the end of April, would reduce its earnings per share by another 55 cents in 2020."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/13/reuters-america-royal-caribbean-cancels-18-cruises-warns-coronavirus-hit-to-yearly-profit.html

Bear in mind those profit warnings are based on the cruise line itself cancelling cruises in Asia.  What of the myriad of people cancelling other cruises at the current time?   There's no doubt at all that COVID-19 is going to very seriously impact the profits of all cruise lines imho.  Accordingly I already ditched my Carnival shares when they were at the recent high.  

13 minutes ago, ptjenn said:

We just cancelled our caribbean cruise late March.  Not worried about contracting coronavirus but concerned about the cruise lines being on such high alert. If they even suspect someone may have the virus I cannot put myself, my husband, and my 2 year old quaratined in a room for days just to hear it was a false alarm. Not to mention cruise ports rejecting the stop as you cruise about the sea. It was a very very hard decision. If it were just myself and my husband we would have still gone. We asked ourself the hard question : would our work be understanding if we were stuck on the boat idling in the ocean and could not return to work as scheduled no!  Would our two year old be OK sitting in a room for days absolutely no.

 

So we are not fearful of the virus, nor contracting it. The fear lies in the unknown. Can I really relax not knowing that tomorrow all passengers are ordered to their cabin.  We have cruised during the swine flu. During the ebola - flying into the mediterrrean. We saw Sicilian port authorities in HAZMAT suits. So if someone says we are paranoid we are not.

 

It depends on your situation and every passenger needs to evaluate the unknowns with everyone on high alert right now. 

I don't think you are paranoid in the least, just eminently sensible and assessing the situation in accordance with your personal circumstances as we all must.   I like you am cancelling cruises.

23 hours ago, haircut4u said:

Over the past few years I have developed a vision problem which makes reading hard work.  However if I invert text to white on black (regardless of font size) I am back to 20/20 and life becomes bearable again.

Hi Garry

This is an interesting condition.  It put me in mind of a young lad I know across the road from me who suffered with dyslexia.

Changing text and background colours is one of the ways dyslexia sufferers can read things easier.

So maybe their solutions might work for you too.

One of the things they do is get hold of an A4 coloured acetate sheet.   The specific colour depends on the person but I think but they are readily available in a wide variety of colours.    It would probably be worth you picking a few up of various colours from your local craft shop and seeing how easy it is to read menus and newspapers etc through those sheets.

You may find that a specific colour helps greatly in which case you can then just carry a folded or rolled up sheet with you on your cruises.

Here's hoping

Best

32 minutes ago, SeaPink0409 said:

Not to seem ignorant to the situation, but when it’s my time, it’s my time. Nothing can stop it, so why do I need to worry?

You likely don't need to worry in terms of catching and dealing with the virus yourselves given your good health and age.

The larger worry would be that someone else on the ship gets the virus and that your wonderful anniversary turns into a Diamond Princess nightmare.  It's just unthinkable for me personally. 

The other worry is that you might find that some ports on your itinerary are missed due to COVID-19 protocols.

If you're ok with that then go for it and have a great one

33 minutes ago, babs135 said:

I have a hiatus hernia and occasionally after a period of discomfort I cough which seems to relieve my aches. Unfortunately when I say I cough I mean really cough. If it was an Olympic sport I would definitely win gold. I wonder what would have happened if I'd had a coughing fit on our recent cruise?

It's a good point babs and one that sufferers of other conditions have raised.  People with say COPD or other ailments that regularly see them coughing.    I don't think you need to worry.   I think most cruise lines now are operating similar precautions which are that people will be screened during embarkation for fever symptoms and the like and would continue to be screened at varying intervals throughout the cruise.

As per my previous question to TerrierJohn I think it's very important here to make the clear distinction between :

1.   Removing plastic flags from a pollution perspective and

2.   P&O Cruises actually seeking to remove the "British Element" of the sailaway

The latter is extremely concerning and for me contributes to an increasing assault on British Nationality by the establishment and wider authoritarian collectives such as the EU.   We should never feel guilty or ashamed to be British or to declare ourselves thus and we should oppose any and all attempts by the various "powers that be" to try to eradicate our Nationality or indeed the very concept of Nationality itself.

P&O Cruises has years and years of British heritage, sails predominantly from Britain and is predominantly used by British customers.   It is appalling in the extreme that such passengers are effectively being denied a long standing tradition of the "Great British" sailaway. 

This will, I have no doubts, just be the tip of the iceberg as those of us who have cruised with P&O for years have seen the way that Carnival operates and how step by step, cut by relentless cut it changes what was imho a formerly great British brand into the far lesser product it is today.  

Personally I think people should not stand for it in any shape or form.  We should bring our own union flags, union flag hats, jumpers, jackets, umbrellas, balloons or whatever and preserve our Britishness.   

I'm sick of the relentless assault on our Nationality.