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#ShortsLivesMatter

Agreed, smoking should be banned in the casinos!

Does anyone have any statistics on smoker/gambler demographics over time? I feel that the percentage of gamblers who smoke may have slowly declined over the past 5 years or so, and I'm optimistic that we may eventually reach a point where Royal will actually make more in casino profits by banning smoking.

I would wait for official communication from Royal before making any decision involving large sums of money to be put down. If you do correspond with a representative, make sure to get things in writing.

Article: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/cdc-eases-warning-for-cruises-and-recommends-only-fully-vaccinated-travel.html

Source Material: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-3/coronavirus-cruise-ship

The CDC lowered the COVID-19 risk level of cruising from "Level 4: Very High" to "Level 3: High". The CDC has also recommended that people who are not fully vaccinated avoid travel on cruise ships.

This is overall great news for the industry, and I believe the CDC is moving in the right direction by (finally 🙄) easing travel restrictions for fully vaccinated folk. Hope to see more positive news for cruising in the coming weeks! 🚢

2 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Unmasked, vaccine optional? That is an oxymoron at this point in time. Don't you think?

Agreed, this is the delusional version of US cruising restart that the anti-vax crowds are pushing. A lot of the logic I saw when the positives happened on Millennium was "oh, obviously vaccines don't work, so let's just have cruising be free-for-all".

1 hour ago, Joseph2017China said:

I live in Florida.  We have not been locked down.  We are an open state.  All tourist areas are now mask free zones.  You have choices.  Anyone stepping foot in Florida will be around unvaccinated people.  And anyone that lives here, have been openly living without masks, or required vaccines.  If you are afraid to cruise than please don't cruise, and don't discuss it.  

If you are afraid to get the vaccine, then please don't get the vaccine, and don't discuss it. 

Just now, jerseygirl3 said:

I honestly did not mean to start a “war of words”. I’m just so confused by which ports/cruise lines that are or not requiring vaccines. I was hoping to get a more definitive answer but I think, given the fluidity of the situation, we’ll all just have to wait and see what pans out as sailings move forward. 

Let me know if Michael Bayley's explanation of Royal's current vaccine policies is still confusing. One of my posts directly quotes a post he made on June 10, which is the most up-to-date stuff we have to work with.

It's still tough to get a definitive answer because everything could change a week from now. We just don't know.

I haven't read much into how other cruise lines are approaching vaccines for their guests. You might find better and more accurate information in those forums (e.g., Carnival and Norwegian).

4 hours ago, lovescats5 said:

So go to a different cruise line.  I am glad RCI is not requiring vaccines.

This is slightly misleading and not helpful for OP.

Ports in Seattle, Galveston, and Bayonne will all sail with the requirement for fully vaccinated guests with the exception of any kids who are not age eligible for the vaccines (12 and up will need to be fully vaccinated after August 1).

Florida ports require the vaccine if guests want to avoid "testing and additional health protocols which will be at their expense".

These are the most up-to-date policies per the President and CEO of RCI. See my post directly quoting him for more precise language.

The following is quoted from Michael Bayley's legitimate Facebook account. He is the President and CEO of RCI. This information is current as of June 10 (5 days ago). Please keep in mind that this may very well change.

"Hi, I have read many different narratives on our vaccine policy and I thought I would clarify the current policy. It is complicated as we navigate through different laws and regulations by state and country and region. One guarantee is whatever the policy is today, it will evolve and change.

1. Our crew will be fully vaccinated on the entire Royal fleet and we are working succesfully to achieve that.

2. For guests sailing on Adventure from the Bahamas. Anthem from Southampton. Jewel from Cyprus, Serenade from Seattle. Ovation from Seattle. Independence from Galveston. Harmony from Barcelona and hopefully Oasis from Bayonne all will sail with the requirement for fully vaccinated guests with the exception of any kids who are not age eligible for vaccines. (12 and up in the USA after August 1st). Kids will be required to be tested and subject to health protocols and there will be no additional charges for any testing etc for the kids.

For Freedom, Odyssey, Allure, Symphony and Mariner sailing out of Florida ports in July and August we are strongly recommending all guests eligible for vaccines are fully vaccinated. We expect approximately 90 per cent of our guests will be vaccinated. Guests who choose not to be vaccinated or not willing to verify vaccination will be subject to testing and additional health protocols which will be at their expense. Kids not eligible for vaccines (under 12 from August 1) who sail will be required to be tested and subject to health protocols and there will be no additional charges.

3. For Quantum sailing out of Singapore since last November we operate under the Royal health protocols and guidance from the Singapore government using testing and health protocols. To date over 75,000 guests have sailed successfully onboard Quantum.

Hope that helps ! My only request is please share your opinion or comments in a polite way. If you could read some messages I have received ! Its scary !"

56 minutes ago, DWBirdman said:

Then take away the CDC requirement and what would the cruises do being able to choose?

 

If we are going to discuss choices, let's at least make sure all parties have a choice.

Look at what they're doing in the Caribbean. The CDC has no bearing on what cruise lines do out there. Cruise lines have beat the CDC to the punch when it comes to requiring vaccines for them to be able to do business safely. Norwegian especially led this charge.

The CDC requirements also do offer cruise lines a choice. There are two paths to restarting cruises in the US. If we are going to discuss choices, then let's also discuss the hypocrisy of DeSantis's "vaccine passport" law.

Also, laws prevent businesses in food services from doing certain dirty practices. Going completely off the rails and allowing businesses to run under zero regulations is also not a viable solution the same way strangling them with arbitrary bureaucracy is.

52 minutes ago, sm3ds said:

The whole picture is they have no idea how long protection is from the so called “vaccine”. In a few months they are going to tell you you need another shot and then yearly. 

So, if we have no idea how long protection lasts from the "so called vaccine" or natural infection, then what is your proposed plan on how the US should restart cruising safely and normally? If it involves opening the floodgates and allowing cruises with zero restrictions starting today, then I think you're living on a different island of reality from the rest of us.

25 minutes ago, Coralc said:

Our original CDC vaccination cards will not be leaving our possession. They are with our passports. I don't really know what you are thinking with this "hand over" of the cards. Someone can confirm providers and vaccines with photocopies or photos if they want to. 

Of course I don't mean it literally when I say "hand over" 😂 

Yes, you are correct that the feds can confirm providers/vaccines with scanned copies or the digital medium of your choice.

2 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I recognize that the many theorize that the two covid passengers used a fake card. But understand this, RCG has to very very careful on this one. They'll have to prove it beyond a shadow of doubt or they be sued big time. Next is the PR problem they'll be facing if they do tell us the vaccine cards are fake. They lose all credibility because the required documentation was not verified but yet demanded. That's a serious problem for RCG.  Because of these two reasons, I seriously doubt that we'll hear anything going forward about them.  

Glad that we agree that even if Royal was starting to "question the vaccines", it is not to a significant degree.

Your point about how Royal may react to fake vaccine cards is interesting, and I'm inclined to agree that they may very well keep this swept under the rug because not enough "damage" was done to anybody. Although unconfirmed, I heard a rumor that after the captain announced the positives onboard, masking protocols and other restrictions were imposed for the rest of the passengers for the rest of the journey. So, maybe enough "damage" was done to warrant further investigation and a press release.

Although I agree that Royal will have to tread carefully if they choose to pursue the issue, I believe it won't be difficult to do so. They can simply hand over the cards to the feds/CDC for inspection (assuming the two positives are American passengers). The feds would be very interested in a possible case of a federal crime being committed. At that point, Royal being sued would be at the bottom of the fakers' worries.

I don't believe Royal will face much of a PR problem for demanding cards that they didn't verify. Royal will most certainly issue some form of punishment against the fake cardholders in the form of a lifetime ban. It sends the message that, "yeah, go ahead and fake the cards all you want, but be prepared for the consequences from us and from the feds if anything prompts us to start checking cards". It's easier to check/submit 2 cards than ~600.

4 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

So it appears that RCG doesn't believe the vaccine is working enough. So let's review...

 

Today word from RCL comes out suddenly that all vaccinated passengers to be tested for a future cruise on the Adventure.

Today, word is released that two passengers test positive on a vaccinated cruise from Celebrity.

 

Naw... now way these two things are related.

 

Sure sounds like RCG is starting to question vsaccines.  

 

 

 

Let's say that you are correct that RCG is starting to "question vaccines". How is this significant in any capacity? As far as I can tell, fully vaccinated cruises will continue sailing in a normalized (pre-COVID) manner. RCG has yet to make an announcement that ships from Caribbean homeports will no longer require the vaccine for those 16 and up (12+ starting in August).

Full disclaimer, we still have yet to learn more information surrounding the positive tests. Were they false positives? Were these people actually fully vaccinated, or did they pull off a "here's my card but please don't actually look at the numbers/dates"? What will RCG's official response to this situation be in terms of changing their health protocols moving forward?

If I had to bet money, I highly doubt that this is a precursor to RCG making vaccines completely optional. If an unmasked, fully vaccinated cruise at 30% capacity yielded two positive tests, how many would an unmasked, vaccine-optional cruise at higher capacities yield?

4 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Wait.

I thought Covid was the boogeyman. 

 

You're right! Even better, we can make him less scary by getting this thing called a vaccine! 👍

1 hour ago, coldflame said:

 

It wasn't a regular revenue cruise.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/ab/agents/variation-b/news/6174/

It's a regular revenue cruise, and it's the first one with a homeport in the Caribbean. Test cruises will only be coming out of US homeports per the CDC's CSO. The same ship will have its second Caribbean itinerary in two days.

54 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Well if you need proof, look no further than all of Royal's unvaccinated cruises that didn't ruin anything. There's plenty of them 

And those cruises were not anything close to normal (or fun). Cruises to nowhere, masking up in majority of spaces, tracking wristbands, limited amenities, etc. I would rather spend my money on the plenty of successful cruises that will be fully vaccinated and have little to no restrictions on fun.

20 minutes ago, coldflame said:

 

In a way it's better this happened in a mock cruise so that protocols could be tested.

From where are you getting that it's a "mock cruise"?

15 hours ago, rtazz17 said:

If you are vaccinated you dont have any worries. Can we please get by this. I work in health care as a career. Get your information from credible sources. What I stated is fact. Not 1 documented case of a person who is vaccinated dying from covid. Please, dont listen to the tabloid news. Search out true science.You cant live your life in fear. Far greater risks in life that you take daily without thinking about it.

I would expect someone working in healthcare to not spread misinformation:

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/12-fully-vaccinated-people-died-of-covid-in-l-a-county-showing-shots-work-extraordinarily-well-health-officials-say/

https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/napa-county-confirms-first-death-of-a-fully-vaccinated-covid-patient/article_9626da8f-c96a-569e-b120-af2c35848293.html

There's true science right there for you. The more people who are unvaccinated from COVID-19 and who unfortunately may catch it (at greater rates than fully vaccinated), the more likely we are to see more contagious and more deadly variants that the vaccines may not provide full protection for.

Agreed, people should not live their life in fear. Don't fear getting the vaccine.

7 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

The only reason any provider of product and service can justify his/her refusal of service to me is their religous beliefs. Other reasons are simply... wrong.

I agree with you about the religion part, but I disagree with that being the only valid reason of refusal of service. I see no issue with an amusement park enforcing height limits, and I certainly don't see any problems with iFLY on Quantum ships enforcing weight limits.

There are several reasons why a business can reasonably deny service to someone that we will never be able to fully exhaust in a list, but the one in question here is safety. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a business to determine someone's level of risk regarding others' safety and weigh that in the decision to keep them employed or provide a service to them.

3 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Just a reminder it's been 8 sweeks since the Texas Rangers opening day, mask free sell out w/ a 38,000 in attendence and it was called a 'super spreader'.  There was vaxed and unvaxed in the crowd that day and no proof of vaccine was required to attend. There was no break out of covid because of this either. 

 

I really think all this stuff is going to die the covid death and just slowly fade away & disappear. 

I definitely think that the US is headed in the right direction, and we're getting closer to normalcy by the day. Like you said, it is still going to be a gradual process, and COVID might very well "slowly fade away & disappear".

With that said, cruise lines restarting is indeed a slow and gradual process, and it is unreasonable for one to think that they will open the floodgates and not require any sort of vaccination for the first sailings. I do think that vaccines won't be required by early 2022 (that's just my personal guess), but it is in the cruise lines' best interest to have a restart taking chances in the range of close to zero. Fully vaccinated cruises are palatable to public agencies, the media, and consumers in general. Surveys have indicated that an overwhelming majority (~80%) of cruisers want the first cruises out of the US to be fully vaccinated.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/03/20/youve-got-to-be-vaccinated-for-these-summer-cruises---and-tickets-are-selling-fast/?sh=5d55d1ee1f23

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-cruise-poll-vaccine-requirement-20210601-agno7majjvhohbameyabhj2pim-story.html - a more recent survey conducted over Memorial Day weekend

The reason for Royal's test cruises is not so that they can open the doors to unvaccinated passengers for the first sailings; rather, it has been confirmed that only passengers under 12 will be able to board unvaccinated. Royal does not want to turn away families in order to meet the 95% vax requirement. Celebrity is going the 95% route. According to a 2018 CLIA industry report, approximately 9% of cruisers are under the age of 12, and this percentage has likely increased over time and may be higher for Royal ships.

Just now, ace2542 said:

And getting banned from a cruise line is a lot different than getting banned from an airline and I can see life bans for people trying to lie to get onboard. If they are serious about preventing that then they have to have a serious punishment.

Agreed! I think committing a federal crime to get on a cruise ship qualifies for getting a life ban. Severe consequences would be a good deterrent.

1 hour ago, bouhunter said:

Why do you care?  Do you feel better about yourself now that you quoted me?

Imagine responding to a rhetorical question 😂

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I'm very curious as to if anyone has been requested to show proof of the Covid vaccination. 

If so, please post it up. Where & who requested it?

Krispy Kreme and Shake Shack for various free food promotions.

Friends have told me that their private companies are allowing employees to come back and work out of the office if they provide proof of vaccination (i.e., the card). Going to the office is completely optional though for the time being, which is very similar to what cruising is.

Cruising is not a right, and it is a vacation choice among many.

1 hour ago, Tippyton said:

Not sure what you are trying to debate here other than reading from the "GEt vACiNNatED!! teleprompter.  I'm immune for a long time, perhaps the rest of my life, without a vaccination and without a booster needed.  Magic!  

 

This quote though is more telling and sinister...  "then it would not make sense to treat these two groups equally from a policy perspective."  But....check this out....WE ALREADY KNEW THAT! 😈😘

Not sure what you're trying to debate here other than reading from the "CoViD vaCCinEs aRe uNsAfe!!" echo chambers.

You might as well be making magical arguments because you refuse to address any of the points that weigh heavily against your viewpoint.

Equal protection under the law does not imply equal treatment. I don't know what level of education you have completed, but this is high school civics. Trying children as adults in a court of law in all circumstances under the guise of "trEaT eVerYonE EquaLLy" serves to benefit no one and is perhaps more "telling and sinister".

Everything I've said is what reasonable people already knew! 😈😘