MEFIowa

When we were on Harvest Caye off Riviera 12/2021 there were golf carts to take you to the boat and vice versa, avoiding the long pier. Being in good health, wife and I walked both ways and just looked at the people on the carts. IIRC the pier at Roatan was not very long and there was the tourist trap area with shops at the bow of the ship. [There were some very elderly gentlemen on board. Spoke with a man in his 90s during the veterans' meet & greet. He was Merchant Marine from the 1940s. Remember him looking longingly at the cranes for the crummy industrial Santo Tomas Port (Honduras). His son, my age, said it brought back memories for him.]

We were on Sirena 11/19-29/2022 for 10 nights in the E. Caribbean. Loved her and our smallish B2 cabin. So much so, that we're back on Sirena 8/28-9/19/2024 on a B2B in the Baltic. This time in an F and one of the upper deck big C1s. Just have reasonable expectations and be prepared to be happy. (We just did a magnificent 20-night B2B on Riviera in the Med in Oct-Nov 2023.)

And that can be a serious reality. On Sirena 11/2022 there was a woman my wife and I called "The Ghost". She'd come up once an hour to the smoking area by the pool, ask what time it was, smoke, and then leave. One evening she told me wife (who smokes) that she needed help getting to her cabin and getting ready. My wife, an angel, escorted her to her cabin and helped her prepare. She came back and said, "I didn't see any signs of anyone else in the cabin." This lady should NOT have been cruising.

No, your World Card is just plastic and gets you in cabin. You'd have to get your own tracking devices or system. Me, I leave my CP behind when I'm on vacation. Though I'm chuckling a bit thinking of the 22-year-old on Sirena 11/2022. Met him and his family (younger sister, mother and father). He got so drunk one night on his birthday at the casino... He had the 2-day hangover. I'm sure his mother wished she had some active tracking system to keep him from bars and casinos on cruises!

Do keep in mind that the specialty restaurants require a reservation. On Riviera 10-11/2023 we found that there really wasn't a 9 pm reservation. We had been forced to take a 9 pm reservation, but they changed that to 8:30 that day. The few last dinners arrived at 8:30. The restaurants emptying out around 9 pm, so weird experience. We don't like to eat late so for the 8:30 reservations we had to take off our B3 cabin (non-concierge), we skipped bread and/or appetizer or dessert, and told the waitress what we wanted up front, to expedite things. This got us out by 9:30. When the place was all but empty. (We did a 20-night B2B so our A3 concierge cabin got us earlier reservations on the 1st 10 night.) NO reservation needed for the GDR or TC (the buffet).

"Southern Gary" and I met on Riviera in 11/2023. He uses his TA. And yet we both booked the same cruise off the Extraordinary Savings Sale. His TA didn't directly get him that price. That was an O sale. And I met people on the cruise who used a TA and paid a lot more than I did, as I watched SALES and used the ESS from earlier in 2023 to get 10 nights in a B3 for just $1749 and 10 nights in an A3 for just $1899. When I told some how LITTLE I paid, they almost teared up. IIRC, one said something like, "I wish I'd paid that little for this cruise!" Southern Gary's booze bill alone was a significant % of the cost of my cruise. And I didn't lack for beer, hard liquor or wine on the cruise or in the suitcase flying home, as I bring my own on board at embarkation and in ports. I didn't need a TA to book a cruise only ESS cabin where we did our own airfare and excursions, again saving a ton.

Yes, IF I were to rebook the future 2024 cruise I booked in 2022 SM would cost me the extra amount as I've documented. A truly significant amount of increase. I even gave you the prices from the years and sales. SM did not reduce cabin rates by a penny. Sales may. But SM raised prices pretty much across the board. AND I can compare the SM price increases to the prices I paid in 2021 for 2021 and 2022 cruises. Again, significant increases in price.

The prices of the booked cruise WENT UP HUGELY under SM. That's the basic issue. I can readily compare my pre-SM booked cruise to the ongoing price of the same future cruise (which won't happen until the end of summer). And I DO compare the price for EACH NEW O SALE. So, far I've tracked the price across the original Summer Sale to the later Black Friday and to today's New Year's Sales. All SM. What is weird but telling is that I'M GIVING ACTUAL REAL PRICES, from 2022, 2023 and 2024 for the same cruises in 2024! Pre- and post-SM. Everyone else? Crickets on real prices. Vague statements.

First, O released 2024 itineraries in early 2022. So, LOTS of people like myself TODAY are actively comparing pre-SM and SM prices to our FUTURE booked cruises. O has had at least 3 major sales alone with SM! I pay close attention to each new sale. Sale after sale. And compare what the cold hard cash cost of each is to us. Second, SM raised prices by about $800 or more, depending upon length of cruise and cabin. You are NOT getting $800 or more in cold hard cash value. So, WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE TO SM for 2024 cruises that have been available for booking since early 2022? You are paying more and getting less. Simple as that.

And I compared the available and wait lists for these two cruises. The 9/9-19/24 cruise that was on sale in 2022 is nearly all wait listed with a bit of guaranteed. The 8/28-9/9/24 cruise that has been on SALE three times since July 2023, all under SM, is mostly available. The ONLY wait list today is for a Vista Suite. All the other cabin categories are "Available" except for the G and PH3 which are both "Guaranteed". So SM is NOT moving cabins on this cruise so far.

An example of the reality of SM and SALES: For our 8/28-9/9 Baltic Cruise on Sirena, I've booked an inside F (705X). - $2949 Summer Sale (price I've booked and it is with SM) - $3049 Black Friday Sale - $3349 New Year's Sale (currently ongoing) So, I've STAYED with the original SS price, since it is less expensive than the other two later sales' prices. The SM program started with the Summer Sale. The SS ran July-Aug 2023. But to compare, we have a 10-night follow up, making this a B2B. The original G booked at $2499 pre-SM and then I upgraded to one of the "big" C1s for just $2849 on a sale in October 2022. The current price for that C1 is NOW $3899. (And the G is $3399, a $900 increase.) So, I've booked it for $1050 less without SM. SM is NOT saving me any real money. And I'm sticking with the original pre-SM booking.

YOU used a SALE, the Summer Sale. SM did NOT do anything, the SS did that. Was the price of your cabin reduced by that 1700? Those are hard, real pounds. Unlike OBC or SM credit.

What specific O SALE did you book this under? Where the price of the cabin declined. The price of the cruise really doesn't go down if the price of the cabin has stayed the same and all you're claiming as savings are credits worth pennies on the dollars depending upon the specifics.

What specific O SALE did you book this under? Where the price of the cabin declined. The price of the cruise really doesn't go down if the price of the cabin has stayed the same and all you're claiming as savings are credits worth pennies on the dollars depending upon the specifics.

What specific O SALE did you book this under? Where the price of the cabin declined by $5000. The price of the cruise really doesn't go down if the price of the cabin has stayed the same and all you're claiming as savings are credits worth pennies on the dollars depending upon the specifics. O has had sales since the inception of SM. So, you cannot compare a non-sale price to a sale price. For us, I booked 10 nights in the Baltic for 9/2024 early in 2022 when the itineraries came out. Booked cruise only and used a later sale to change cabins, but stayed cruise only (the sale was pre-SM). Then when SM came out there was a sale with it and I ADDED a 12-night Baltic starting 8/2024 making it a B2B. But notice, I did NOT go from a SM without a sale to a SM with a sale. I booked one pre-SM cruise only and the other SM off a sale. By itself, SM didn't "save" me a penny on the cabin.

Of course, things get interesting again if there is a sale (and there usually is one) and it applies to your booked cruise. And the sale price is a lot lower. We booked our 2nd cruise (Sirena 11/2022) while on our first (Riviera 12/2021). Unfortunately, it never went on sale so all we got were the benefits of booking on board. I've never had the great pleasure of being on board while a fantastic sale was happening, trying to combine both the best of booking on board with a great sale price. I've wondered, "What must it have been like to book an Extraordinary Savings Sale-eligible cruise while on board?"

Value... What price "value"? What you haven't accounted for is the INCREASE in the cost of the cruises, due to SM. So you think having a glass of wine & beer at lunch and dinner is worth $30 per day? Or $300 for 10 days? To each their own. My 500 ML cans of Montenegrin beer cost E0.69 each. Bought six (6) of them in Kotor. That was about $4.50 total. Or E1.49 bottle of Italian red wine. Or the 3 bottles of whatever wine I wanted for E5.00. That delightful bottle of Serbian brandy was E10.49. Enjoyed it so much I bought a bottle Greek brandy in Heraklion and then later Spanish brandy in Barcelona. Your "value" has quite the cost, compared to my "value". I drank all the beer, hard liquor and wine I wanted for 20 days and nights on Riviera and brought 3 bottles of hard liquor back all for about $100. Or just 3+ days of SM.

Who cares about list or book prices? I pay close attention to every O sale and book during sales. So I may book a cruise itinerary I want as a G or F to start, I'll use a sale to go to a C. Or another sale to go from the C to a B or A. I paid about the same or less for my 20 night B2B on Riviera (10-11/2023) in a combined A3/B3 booking than I did for the original F and C I booked. Using the Extraordinary Savings Sale, one of about 6-8 major sales O had in 2023(!). Original F at $1614 PP became final A3 PP at $1899. A bit more. Original C at $1994 PP became a B4 at $2249 PP became final B3 at $1749 PP. A bit less. The net difference: I paid just $40 more! I pay no real attention to the list or book price. I'm not planning on paying that! O has sale after sale after sale.

SM and alcohol... When you can bring your own beer, hard liquor and wine on board at embarkation and at ports, what is the value of SM? On our recent 20-night B2B on Riviera (10-11/2023), which we booked CRUISE ONLY, I initially stocked up on beer, hard liquor and wine from a local grocery store in Trieste. Then bought more in Kotor, Heraklion, Istanbul, Messina, Naples, etc. After developing a taste for Montenegrin beer, European brandy from Greece, Serbia & Spain, and lots of Italian wines, and including the 3 bottles of varying sizes of hard liquor that I brought HOME with me (e.g., 700 ML bottle of Turkish Yeni Raki), I spent a bit over E100 total. Enjoying beer, hard liquor and wine each night on our veranda. That cost was a bit over that for a mere 3 days of O's Premium Package. I had a blast shopping for inexpensive decent alcohol in the local stores. That Montenegrin beer in Kotor was on sale 33% off, so those six (6) 500 ML cans cost just E.69 per can. A decent bottle of Italian wine I found on the bottom shelf of a grocery store in Naples was E1.49. But I also bought 3 for E5.00 at a different small store, too. I loved the Serbian brandy I bought in Kotor at E10.49. That Turkish Raki was the most expensive at TL550 (or about $19.50). AND we had 4 nights of FREE alcohol at the 2 Captain's Parties and 2 Repeaters' Parties.

But having done the A3 part first, we had already been at all 4 specialty restaurants, so we knew what to do to expedite our dining at the 8:30 pm times. We'd tell the waitress up front "No bread" and we'd skip either the appetizer or dessert course and give her our entire order up front. That got us out around 9:30. When the place was all but empty. (We cruise for excursions, so we're normally in bed by 10 pm and up to get off right when we can the next morning.)

As we learned on our recent 20-night B2B on Riviera (10-11/2023) switching midway from an A3 to a B3 cabin, we could NOT get decent reservation times as a table for 2 even booking the specialty restaurants at midnight the opening hour! We could for the A3 concierge cabin, but not the B3. They even moved us up from the 9 pm one night to 8:30, as it didn't appear there is an actual 9 pm "time". The place is emptying out then. We saw very few arrive at 8:30 on the nights we had to. It seems highly possible that O gets the G-B cabin passengers to self-select away from later reservations. They may just not accept the times and go to GDR or TC or try a table for 4. But that's speculation based on our personal experience from this cruise.

Just keep in mind that for dinner you have: 1. GDR (no reservation) 2. TC (no reservation) 3. Polo Grill (reservation required) 4. Toscana (reservation required) You will get at least 2 specialty reservations (one each) in advance. The earlier you make it in advance of the cruise the better. So make them on the first minute of the first hour of the first day you can. IF you are in a G-B cabin, which get the last round to start making reservations, be prepared for 8:30 PM reservations.

After 4 very successful O cruises (40 nights total) starting with Riviera in 12/2021 and ending with Riviera 11/2023, the OP reminds me that...keeping what you do with the cruise line simple pays off. But that was us doing cruise only and bringing our own alcohol on board. No problems with our airfare (we made it ourselves). No problems with our excursions (we did them ourselves). Worry about their alcohol plans? Nope. Brought my own beer, hard liquor and wine on board. Save a fortune drinking it on my veranda. Worry about overpriced spa or other on-board extras? Nope. Can do that at home before the cruise or after, if we even ever wanted to. We've been blessed to deal with the same O rep. I got her ext. number the moment I realized she seemed to know her stuff. And we've been smart to look at EVERY sale that comes along to see if it impacts the cruise we're on. I don't rely on getting special treatment from the cruise line because we've shelled out a fortune with them in the past or project to on a particular future cruise. So while YOU paid $475 PP PD for your 10 nights you KNOW we paid $190 PP PD for our 10 nights on the same cruise and ship in our A3 Concierge Veranda. Because we met at the pool bar and I even got to see your room. We both booked thru that amazing Extraordinary Savings Sale in early 2023.

Did you purchase travel insurance shortly after booking the cruise? If you did, check its terms and conditions. (But I'd also go with the credit card dispute.)

We have recent experience with both B and A cabins. We just finished a 20-night B2B on Riviera. First 10 nights in an A3 and the 2nd 10 nights in a B3. We'd spent 10 nights on Riviera in an A4 back in 12/2021 and 10 nights on Sirena in 11/2022 in a B2. IF you enjoy reading newspapers, as I do, the Concierge Lounge has a selection of American, British and Canadian newspapers. There is also coffee and snacks. We DID use and enjoy the therapy spa pool, but Riviera has the BIGGER pool. I don't know if Vista does. We'd jump into it after excursions but before dinner. And sometimes even after dinner. It DOES make a difference for dinner for "dinner for 2" dining in the specialty restaurants. We were able to reserve the earlier times we want (e.g., 6:30 PM) in our A3, but could NOT in our B3. With the B3 we could only get 8:30 or 9 pm reservations and the one 9 pm they changed to 8:30 (because there wasn't anyone coming in at that time and the restaurant is emptying out). The OLD tote bag is far more useable than the NEW one. I use the OLD one for all of our excursions, as it is strong and has a zipper with lots of pockets. The NEW bag is really only good for putting your dirty clothes in it and carrying back clean folded clothes. We did OUR OWN LAUNDRY on both segments. We spent 3 nights in Venice before and 3 nights in Barcelona after so we did laundry on day 1 and day 19. And I think we did a load or two of laundry on 3 other days. First thing worked wonders. It is pretty convenient to do your own, esp. on a sea day. Wife and I worked as a team. Sometimes I'd wait 15 or so minutes for a washing machine to come available and then time the drying. Both washers and dryers have timers counting down. The bottle of champagne is just that, one bottle. We didn't drink it for days, because we bring our own alcohol on board (beer, hard liquor and wine that we drink in our cabin) and we enjoy the Captain's Party and the Repeater Party (so free drinks for us for 4 nights out of the 20).