CI66774

On 5/17/2021 at 9:06 PM, 2 cruises a year said:

An interrupted cruise for starters.  Who knows what will happen if a serious infection breaks out.  Have trouble finding a port.  Maybe quarantine everyone.  At the very least a big pain in the neck.

But that could happen on a vaccinated cruise as the vaccine does not provide immunity.

21 hours ago, jrapps said:

For what it is worth, I did a poll in a different cruise forum (For Disney Cruise Line) a few weeks back....70% of the responses said they wouldn't feel comfortable at this time going back on a cruise ship unless there was a vaccine required to sail. Obviously things change over time, but I think its a decent indication that a majority of people want vaccines required to cruise (for now at least)

 

People do just want to cruise again but they also want to do so safely. At this time, only 36.7% of the US population is fully vaccinated. 47% have had at least one dose, and we are just now starting to vaccinate kids 12+. All indications point to us achieving somewhere around 50% of the nation fully vaccinated between mid June and end of July. Still very much below the level needed for herd immunity.

 

I actually think all of this vaccine vs no vaccine required madness will be gone by October/November of this year because around end of summer, the vaccine will likely be approved for ages 5+. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, once my entire family can and does have the vaccine, I will no longer care who else has it, we are protected, and I think that is the mentality we are moving towards. Once the vaccine is readily available to everyone, those vaccinated will no longer care if others have it or not because we will be protected. (I realize 4 and under won't be until next year at the earliest but at that point you are at such a minuscule % of people on a cruise ship)

 

My prediction: From July to Oct, you will see cruises outside FL doing vaccine required for 12+ (or 18+). In FL they will be more cautious, do test cruises instead and a dramatically reduce the number of sailings possibly not doing revenue cruises until Aug/Sept. Come Oct/Nov, the mask requirements on cruise ships will scale way back, vaccine requirements will drop, and cruising will mostly be back to normal, still with social distancing and mask "recommendations" but not enforced.

I just read that 59% of US has at least one dose.

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

The unvaccinated could come in contact with each other and spread the virus among them. If this causes the cruise to be cut short or ports not to allow the ship to dock, that would negatively affect every passenger including those who have been vaccinated.

But even the vaccinated can still be infected with COVID. It’s just less of a possibility and the symptoms tend to be milder.

OMG! That is expensive!

3 hours ago, coldflame said:

 

Who said anything abut vaccine passports. Perhaps you should read before replying.

Read the post again before replying. It certainly does.

52 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Bullying is all they know.  I think it's a defense mechanism.

You’re the bully here. I’ve read several of your posts I consider condescending and full of derision. I’m just calling those of you out who engage in it. Perhaps some introspection of the issue is warranted.

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Why attack a person's ability to grasp an issue? You have zero idea of what the poster knows. So you are essentially attempting to bully them. Stop the bullying.

Read the post. She was the one bullying and deriding. You stop the harassment and bullying.

6 hours ago, MacMarauder said:

 

My main concern if there was a high percentage of unvaccinated people on board would be that an COVID outbreak would occur and the whole ship would have to go into quarantine. Luckily (?) I'm not planning to cruise until at least 2022 so it's a moot point for me, but if I was going this year a 100% vaccinated cruise would be much more assuring that we would actually get through the whole thing without a COVID issue. Also, if after a couple months of sailings it's proven there are no issues with unvaccinated PAX I would be fine with it.

If you’re vaccinated, why would those people have to be quarantined? I mean - what are we getting the vaccine for if nothing changes if we get it?

7 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I think it's more that the current guidance is that fully vaccinated people don't have to wear masks or socially distance. If NCL allows unvaccinated people onboard, masks and social distancing may still be required. Otherwise there will have to be some policing of who is vaccinated and who is not. Capacity in the theatre or public areas might still have to be restricted to allow more room for social distancing. Capacity on the whole ship may have to remain reduced. And a whole host of other potential hassles that might make cruising feel less "normal."

Question - did you ever wear a mask after getting the flu/ polio, etc. vaccine or any vaccine? Even if you were around people who weren’t vaccinated?

2 hours ago, rucrazy said:

CCL and NCLH were both up over 8% today RCL up almost 7.5% as the industry seemed to like the CDC statement yesterday!

Overall market went up considerably today but they were battered earlier in the week.

On 5/13/2021 at 3:39 PM, coffeebean said:

That just identifies people when they will be disembarking. My concern is how will staff recognize those folks who are vaccinated when just moving around the ship, sitting in a theater, entering and sitting in a restaurant, etc.

They won’t.

8 minutes ago, coldflame said:

 

The whole anti-CDC argument revolved around selfishness. Plain and simple. They (poorly) disguise it as rally for freedom. But this is blatantly transparently virtuosity finagle. Anyone capable of thinking in the well being of NOT them or their family or an iota of empathy can think back and and reassess. But nooooo, oh no. This is government infringing in our constitutionally recognized right to cruise (except no such right exists and denying the duty placed on those institutions).

 

We're as desperate to get on a cruise as y'all, and as I've said elsewhere the CDC rules are pretty unreasonable, but I'm also able to comprehend *WHY* they are being overly cautious with re-commencing  cruise travel.

It’s obvious you don’t have a grasp of the breadth of issues surrounding the constitutionality of the vaccine passport. It has nothing to do with any perceived right to cruise.  Instead of deriding others, perhaps you should do some research and educate yourself.

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I don't believe the vaccination passport is part of the current filing

Thanks.

31 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

If cruising restarts before a ruling, is the suit likely to continue?

You mean with no vaccination mandate and all parties come to some type of an agreement? Yes, they can stipulate they have reached a settlement, etc.

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.

Not that simple. Flu went away for other reasons, too. kids are little germ factories and majority were remote so no sharing of viruses and bringing them home to me. Americans went out a lot less and travelled via plane, etc. even less. We stayed home and didn’t mingle. Masks may have played some part but not being out and about touching stuff and putting your hands in your mouth, eyes,  one probably played a bigger role. Just my guess that being solitary was the biggest reason.

2 minutes ago, SUSIEK said:

Not surprised. 
I received my Pfizer two doses in March/April.  At that time you had to register online and I did have to show my drivers license when I arrived to get the vaccinations.
I believe we have more supply than we have demand right now. So it’s not necessary to check. I suppose it’s just more important to get shots in arms of as many as possible. 😊

Agree 100%. 

3 hours ago, RedIguana said:

I am not a lawyer, but do spend some time dealing with federal regulations. I cannot figure out why the states that filed the lawsuit did not question the authority of the CDC to continue the no sail order based upon the statutes used to grant the CDC the ability to issue the no sail order.

 

42 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 42 - THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE
CHAPTER 6A - PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE
SUBCHAPTER II - GENERAL POWERS AND DUTIES
Part G - Quarantine and Inspection
Sec. 265 - Suspension of entries and imports from designated places to prevent spread of communicable diseases
From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov
 

§265. Suspension of entries and imports from designated places to prevent spread of communicable diseases

Whenever the Surgeon General determines that by reason of the existence of any communicable disease in a foreign country there is serious danger of the introduction of such disease into the United States, and that this danger is so increased by the introduction of persons or property from such country that a suspension of the right to introduce such persons and property is required in the interest of the public health, the Surgeon General, in accordance with regulations approved by the President, shall have the power to prohibit, in whole or in part, the introduction of persons and property from such countries or places as he shall designate in order to avert such danger, and for such period of time as he may deem necessary for such purpose.

(July 1, 1944, ch. 373, title III, §362, 58 Stat. 704.)

Transfer of Functions

Office of Surgeon General abolished by section 3 of Reorg. Plan No. 3 of 1966, eff. June 25, 1966, 31 F.R. 8855, 80 Stat. 1610, and functions thereof transferred to Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare by section 1 of Reorg. Plan No. 3 of 1966, set out as a note under section 202 of this title. Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare redesignated Secretary of Health and Human Services by section 509(b) of Pub. L. 96–88 which is classified to section 3508(b) of Title 20, Education.

Delegation of Functions

For assignment of functions of President under this section, see section 3 of Ex. Ord. No. 13295, Apr. 4, 2003, 68 F.R. 17255, set out as a note under section 264 of this title.

 

Covid has been introduced and is endemic to the US at this point. I would be arguing vaccinated cruise do not rise to the threat required to invoke the authority of the CDC under 42 U.S.C, nor that a fully vaccinated cruise poses a probable threat of spreading Covid. 

 

Any argument that the state or government should not be responsible for the cost of care and treatment for any passengers is easily rebuked by requiring adequate covid travel insurance, whether private or through the cruise line, similar to the Bahamas Requirement.

 

OK, I am ready for my message box to get roasted:)

May have applied back when we didn’t have COVID yet but doesn’t apply now. Read the statute carefully - it’s to prevent the introduction of any disease from a foreign country. It’s already here. This particular doesn’t apply now and certainly doesn’t apply to the vaccination passport issue.

2 hours ago, SUSIEK said:

At first, they were.  But, then changed to only those that have a residence here at least 1/2 of the year. Snow-birds....etc.  Proof was required.  As many were flying in from South America and other countries just to get vaccinated.   Currently,  I'm not sure. It's hard to keep up with all the changes... LOL!   I believe we do have an excess of vaccine here in FL.  Most places do not even require an appt. to get it.  You can just walk in.  Would be great to share with those that want it but can't get it. 

Just received the J&J vaccine last week in FL. Didn’t even ask for any proof of residency. I offered and she said no proof was necessary. 

4 hours ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

As someone who followed a case for several years that was handled by Judge Merryday, I can tell you he is never in a hurry to make a ruling. We could all be cruising with no restrictions before he gets around to it. 

And this is a complex marriage of fed, state, and local law. Might be quite some time....

23 hours ago, Joe817 said:

I could see that. After all, we get flu shots yearly....why not covid shots yearly to cover the mutations?

Flu shots arent mandated to cruise....

Looks as if ALabama is about to prohibit vaccine passports, too....

6 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

Not according the the CDC as of yesterday.

This is still developing. We don’t really know what the widespread effects of these vaccines are yet. Articles today reflect new “breakthrough” cases of COVID after vaccination....

9 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

Look at the science. No you can't transmit and you MIGHT get sick like a cold.

There are new articles out today about people who have fallen ill with COVID after vaccination. Cause for some concern.

1 hour ago, PMGS247 said:

 

I think the cruise industry will find a way around the FL executive orders and I think the Gov of Florida will be quietly happy when they do.  He will publicly oppose it for political purposes but behind closed doors be happy to be overruled and get back all the jobs and revenue from cruising.

 

When push comes to shove the almighty dollar will win out, and holding cruise lines to the current executive orders vs allowing vaccine validation will result in a fraction of cruises operating, if at all.  This is too costly to too many people...I think something will give.

Don’t agree with your “way around” speculation. I speculate the parties will find a solution that doesn’t violate FL law (legislature passed the law re: passports) but adheres to reasonable CDC suggestions (e.g. negative COVID tests, etc.).

1 hour ago, pcur said:

I remember when I was a kid we would lightly flick a lightbulb to see if it really was burned out.  I think someone should do that to DeSantis' head............because I think his wires inside are on the fritz.

But his statement was accurate. NCL doesn’t even approach Carnival or RCL in terms of revenue and/or passengers. It’s the last of the three - way down there last.