commodoredave

While we are awaiting word from the top, I have been thinking about other choices SeaDream will need to make in the near future. In addition to formulating a policy of some sort concerning children which will affect bookings one way or the other, SeaDream is facing an inevitable change. SeaDream I is approaching its 30th "birthday" with SD II one year behind. To put that in perspective, Queen Elizabeth 2 (QE2) was the longest serving Cunard ship in their almost 200 year history and was retired just short of 40. Ship expenditures for repair and maintenance go up exponentially as ships age. SeaDream I & II were well built originally and have been well maintained but so was QE2. Sure there are some 50 year old rust buckets in third world countries but unless SeaDream intends to buck historical trends, they will need to consider building/buying replacement tonnage in the near future. Given lead times decision time will probably need to be sooner rather than later. Inevitably they will go larger. All ship lines seem to and that is also a historical trend. Seabourn has some griping about slippage of food and service quality in its newer 450 passenger ships as compared to the old 220 passenger ships. If SeaDream replaces the present ships with 200 or 300 passenger ships will they keep the passenger/crew ratio like it is? Precedent says no. Inevitably it will be a different product than what we currently enjoy. I guess we should be glad we have had the opportunity to experience SeaDream as originally envisioned. Now if we can just get a clear policy on kids.:eek::eek:

Jim, some of the older ships had problems with the new SOLAS rules that required expensive refits. If SD already meets these requirements, they may be able to keep their ships up to snuff at reasonable cost for another 10 years. After that, they will need to think about replacement..

We are looking forward to our first cruise with SD but sincerely hope it is an adults-only experience. We have lots of cruise lines and ships to choose from that have much more room and much better facilities for kids than SD. We chose SD because they market themselves as a "couples" cruise line.

We were on the Pride in September for her 15-day Route of Britannia cruise. The ship was in pretty good shape, and the food and service excellent. It wasn't quite as good as our last voyage on the Pride, but it was still a wonderful experience. And we were very pleased to have had one last chance to sail on this very special ship.

Three weeks for us! :D I'll try to check this thread while onboard in case anyone sailing later has any questions.

Thanks. This being our first trip to CR, we are very interested in hearing about the shore excursions.

Six weeks for us!!!

Definitely no milk and cookies!!

 

Jim, Ms. Conover didn't share her personal opinion, so I really can't address that. She certainly understood the problems they can cause, but it seems to me that the real problem isn't specifically children -- since we've all seen some very well behaved ones -- it's unruly guests, be they children or adults. Obnoxious adults can ruin the cruise just as fast as brats and therein lies the issue. Kids don't really belong on SD -- especially with parents who don't supervise them. But adults who climb on the piano, go topless on deck, take over the TOY or are otherwise uncivilized are equally unwelcome, in my opinion.

 

Vandrefalk

I can live with the topless, especially if the perps are under 50 years old. :D

Yes, thanks for the update. Like you, I do believe that we will see some sort of policy change, but I expect it will be subtle and communicated first via the SD website.

You Canadians are just plain weird!:eek::D

Yes, but if I watch a football game during a cruise I will be divorced as well as weird!;)

You mean you'd rather watch a football game instead of Masterpiece Theatre?! :eek:

I can say from experience that multi-national companies move at a snail's pace, which is one of the reasons that few survive more than 40 years. Having said that, I have a good feeling about Andreas, his understanding of the issue, and his desire to find a fair solution.

Hi Andreas.

I also want to welcome you to the Cruise Critic forums and thank you for taking the time to interact with those of us here. For some time now I, along with a number of others, have had the feeling that SeaDream was just not concerned with our issues with children on board. That SeaDream did not want to hear of it. It is nice to have some contact with you and hearing your willingness to listen and possibly work to some solution. Like many others, our first SeaDream voyage (Mexico in 2004) was a dream come true in the cruise industry and we fell in love with the experience. A luxury voyage for adults with unequaled service. If you prowl this board in all topics, what is repeated over and over is the affection for and appreciation of the great crews onboard both yachts. They are what makes SeaDream so good and so unique. Lets face it, the ships, while beautiful and impeccably maintained, are nothing special in the industry. A few bars, a nice small pool deck area, some pleasant outdoor lounging areas, a main salon, a dining room and a library/piano bar. Pretty much standard stuff on all passenger ships. The cabins are comfortable and nicely appointed but to be blunt, the veranda on our last cruise was almost the same area as a SeaDream cabin. You just don't hear people say that they repeatedly sail SeaDream for the Pool Bar or the Dining Room ambiance. It is always about the crew, the food, and yes, the fellow passengers. Passenger mix is very important on a small ship with limited venues. Having been in the shipping industry (cargo, not passenger) I have great admiration for the tireless job the shore staff does keeping the ships profitably operating. I believe we all want SeaDream to prosper. I am aware that the trips I have taken are but a small drop in the ocean of revenues needed to maintain the business. Changing to something I don't like will result in me going elsewhere but will not impact SeaDream a bit. If hundreds of people like me go elsewhere, then you might have an issue. So, I am going to just be blunt and tell you what I wish SeaDream would consider as new policy to replace the almost non policy listed in Terms and Conditions on the website.

1. No passengers under the age of 18. Ever.

2. Dedicate SeaDream I as adults only and SeaDream II as family friendly. It will not take long to see which ship books faster.

3. Have designated cruises as adult only. All others would be assumed to be for any age group. Again, see how fast (or not) the adults only cruises book).

4. As a last option, offer information to passengers that inquire about the passenger makeup and allow a full refund or full cruise credit up to the last week before the cruise if SeaDream books children or groups at the last minute. SeaDream currently has one of the most expensive deposit and trip cancellation policies out there. This is becoming a block on booking for us due to the uncertain nature of children showing up late in the booking process.

That's it. Maybe some others will offer more ideas. Competition is growing in this segment and even the major lines are moving upscale with offerings of much much larger accommodations and upgraded services and amenities for less cost. Is it SeaDream? No. But then, we have been on board SeaDream when it was not SeaDream as advertised. That is all I want, some feeling of confidence that I can expect the SeaDream experience as marketed consistently on our voyages. I look forward to reading more of your posts and again, thank you for taking the time to work on this issue.

J.

Jim is bang on and I fully support the points he made. I simply don't want to share a small luxury vessel with children and I am prepared to spend my travel budget somewhere else to have an enjoyable vacation.

Dear goRRRdon,

 

Thank you for your honest feedback. I think we as a company have not reacted quickly enough to feedback provided by you and others and that is something we have to learn from and improve upon in the future. For this thread to reach 180+ posts before we even responded is not ok. And you are absolutely correct that I have not address the actual issues yet so I can appreciate your analogy to the Shaina Twain song. For the time being I have only acknowledged concerns raised on these forums and that was really the only purpose of my initial posts.

 

I will try post an update later this week or early next week addressing the actual issues raised. I am not promising that there will be major policy changes or that you or others that you will be happy with what I am saying, all I am trying to do is to be honest and engage in a dialogue and to make sure that your voices are heard by our management (I met with Thomas Carlson, our VP of Hotel Operations today and we went through many of the posts on these forums together just as an example).

 

I created this note on the SeaDream website to let you know that I am an employee of SeaDream Yacht Club just to get that out of the way: http://www.seadream.com/andreas.html

 

Best regards,

Andreas Brynestad

SeaDream Yacht Club

Thank you for following up and letting us know what we can expect in the near future.

Give it a month or two to see if anything happens. If nothing happens by then, Andreas will have some 'splaining to do!

That's obvious,although you can still get good experiences on both sizes.

True. And some people like my DW actually prefer the Odyssey-class size ship over the smaller triplets.

I read the two posts from Andreas on a new thread (Sea Dream website) purporting to be a spokesperson of Sea Dream and Shania Twain's song instantly came to mind: "That dont impress me much" !

 

Really, what twoddle ! Tosh ! Waffle !

It says a whole bunch of nothing.

And how quickly some are to acquiesce !

 

I haven't posted for a while now on this subject as I have given up and reluctantly accept nothing will change.

I no longer have faith in the company (Owner especially) and I will be reducing the risks with no bookings in potential peak kid seasons.

I'm guessing they are July & August in the Med. Does anybody out there concur ? It is everyone for themselves but shared experiences are so valuable. I would appreciate feedback.

I have a different view, but I am a SD newbie who is just beginning the relationship.

I am pleased that SD management has acknowledged the concerns expressed on the SD forum, and I am not surprised they said little more at this point. What I expect and hope for is that they will now take the kiddies issue seriously enough that some thought will be given as to how it can best be dealt with in a fair and effective manner.

I also expect that in due course we will hear more from SD about this issue, and that they will put in place and announce some sort of policy. It may be wishful thinking, but I am prepared to be patient for the right outcome.

I don't care if the new vessel is 500 or 600

Sebourn is still the best luxury product by far and I will be giving her a go.

 

Personally I will guess that the new ship will carry 550

I like Seabourn, but haven't seen enough of a difference to say they are the best by far. Slightly better, maybe, but not far better.

I believe the Voyager is on the wrong side of that capacity number. Especially when the CD turned getting on/off into pure bedlam.

 

Sent via squirrels and a rotary phone

Agree.

Fair enough.

 

I like the 450 capacity ships. For me they get the right balance between good facilities and not being too big.

 

We did a cruise on Regent Voyager which carries 700 passengers. Admittedly it is an older design but, in our opinion, the facilities were not sufficient for the number of passengers.

I've never had an issue with the facilities aboard the Regent Voyager, but always felt it presented a different atmosphere than smaller ships including its own sister, the Navigator. There is a passenger capacity at which point the intimate yacht club feeling is lost.

I may well be in a minority here but I cannot why the Seabourn product cannot be retained in a ship with say 600 passengers. Obviously the staff to passenger ratio will have to remain the same and there must be an increase in the dining and bar availability for the extra 100 passengers, a full ship on the new ships now does have a few bottlenecks at times. This I am sure would be well thought out in the planning phase of the new vessel. It is not going to work if you just add a whole new deck with cabins and a consequent increase in crew accommodation.

I agree and have only minor issues with 600 pax on a ship built to accommodate that many with the same or better space/pax ratio as the Odyssey class ships. However, 600 or more pax would take a ship out of the small ship classification and into the mid-size ship category. Some current SB loyalists may find that disappointing as a mid-size ship is a different experience.

I am very impressed that Andreas has posted in this forum and acknowledged the concerns of many old and new SD cruisers who have expressed legitimate concerns with children adversely impacting their cruise experience.

Our decision to try SD for my 60th birthday cruise in December was largely influenced by people on the SD forum. In my opinion, these loyal SD supporters are vital to the long-term health of SD and their opinions matter.

I am grateful to Andreas for letting us know that SD is aware of this forum and our concerns. We are looking forward to our first SD cruise in CR, and hope it will be the first of many to come.

From the Seabourn Blog:

"The vessel will replace the capacity that is leaving the Seabourn brand with the sale of Seabourn Pride, Seabourn Spirit and Seabourn Legend. These ships will be transferred to their new owners in April 2014, April 2015 and May 2015, respectively."

So that will be a 600(+) pax job then - it may be a fine vessel but to many it will not be the Seabourn we have known - so a little sad. And the Windstar experience is shaping up to be something a little less rather than on par.

The end of an era. But time marches on....

Windstar is certainly not up to the Seabourn standard, at least not at this point. However, I note that the nearly 80,000 people who cast 1.3 million votes in the current Conde Nast Traveler Best in the World 2013 survey rated Windstar at 92 out of 100, just 6/10s of a point behind Seabourn at 92.6, and better than SeaDream at 91.6, Silversea at 90.9, and Regent at 91.5.

So Seabourn management should think carefully about the design and capacity of their newbuild if they want to remain the top small ship line in the world.

Sounds like positive news to me. Seabourn adds a 4th ship, same size as the current trio of newbuilds, which I like, very much.

For those who have used Coach Costa Rica, I have a question. Were you ok sending them the credit card information they request? In addition to the usual credit card number, expiry date, and card code on the back, they are requesting photocopies of the card front & back and photocopy of my Passport. Is this normal procedure for them and have you had any issues from this?

Thanks,

Jim

Strange. I booked transfers with them several months ago and only had to provide credit card info and a deposit -- no request for driver's licence or passport. Maybe they will ask for it when we get closer to departure.