ch09

1 minute ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

 

Venezia and Firenze were also built and designed originally for the China market as well, I believe Venezia made it over there briefly and Firenze did not and both were then added back to the main fleet. 

 

Those are owned by the joint venture, along with Costa Atlantica & Mediterranea so that may not be an option, but I guess we will hear about that soon enough.

 

This also gives Costa an unique opportunity to come back to the North American market again, they haven't sailed from a US homeport in several years and would be able to keep a ship on this side and have it turned back over to Costa if they choose to do so. MSC is quickly growing business on this side and recently announced sailing year round from NYC, pushing Venezia in NYC may swing people away from MSC. 

Yes. They were built for the Chinese market, but more comparable to the RCL and Princess ships that can be easily turned around and be redeployed to other markets when the needs arise. There are more hurdles to clear to move the unfinished ships to other markets. Carnival would likely have to buy them outright from the partnership and the hulls likely require heavier modifications to move them to the US market to meet regulations. This is the problem that the Global Dream is currently having in finding a buyer.

12 minutes ago, mattcj89 said:

Aren’t there two more Vista class ships being built for the Carnival China division? I’d be willing to bet if those are still under construction, they end up being transferred to Carnival before they get too far with the construction. 
 

I think Carnival could take delivery of the two additional Vista class ships and at that point, either send Venezia and Firenze back to Costa with very little conversions depending on European demand, or keep Venezia and Firenze with Carnival long-term and renovate them to bring them in line with Carnival standards at that time. 
 

I don’t see this as a long-term solution either way. I believe Carnival is just buying time and filling current demands as they see profitable, with minimal investment involved. 

Those ships are currently being built in China for CSSC Carnival Cruise Shipping aka Carnival China. These ships when completed will be China flagged and are meant for China only. This and that this project is part of a partnership makes it very unlikely that these ships will be moved to a sister cruise line.  These ships will likely be the ships that Carnival China will use whenever China decides to open back up. The Venezia and Firenze are Italian built ships, which is the big difference with the two currently undergoing construction.

28 minutes ago, toad455 said:

The speculation with the Margaritaville Cruise Line is that they'll want another ship to do cruises to Nassau and utilize their new Margaritaville Hotel there. Can see them doing 4-day cruises to Bimini & overnight in Nassau with their second ship.

West Palm Beach cannot support a bigger ship than what it has due to the turning basin. So a bigger ship like the Ecstasy or Sensation would have to go out from the bigger ports. Fort Lauderdale would be the likely option, since it was the port where the 2-night cruises to Nassau happened long ago with the Regal Empress and the Bahamas Celebration that got moved to West Palm Beach prior to the Grand Celebration.

2 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

Anyone have any educated guesses on how much longer Elation and Paradise will remain?

 

Elation was our first, and we'd love to sail one last time before she heads to the breakers.  We've been hoping the updates and new paint mean she's still got a few more years left?

Probably until 2027-2030

31 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

 

I guess the people of Jacksonville don't deserve a Spirit-class ship. That leaves Elation or Paradise to pick up the slack. The bigger question that I have is which ship will pick up Mobile? Unlike Tampa and Jacksonville, Mobile can accommodate a Conquest class ship, but can it support another 900 berths, or does Carnival back out of Mobile after Ecstasy retires? 

The Paradise has been sailing from Tampa since 2012, which is the longest of any ship in the fleet. Therefore, the Paradise could also be a candidate for Jacksonville to give the Tampa area a new option.

3 hours ago, Cruisertoday said:

I think that the Magica could possibly sail out of Australia under Carnival once cruising finally resumes from the country as the Spirit has been redeployed to JAX. 

The Magica also has the tender boats that most Carnival ships besides the Spirit class and Splendor has due to it being originally ordered for Costa. This alone would make her a good candidate for Australia as the Magica is just sitting off the coast of Italy, so it can be done when Australia gives the go ahead.

1 hour ago, Blizzard54 said:

Since all connections are done above the waterline, I would expect that the work could be done at a wet dock.  That opens up a lot of possible locations. 

The Navigator is due for a dry dock next year.

2 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Why?  Do they need to cut holes in the hull for insertion of equipment?

 

I didn't think the transformers were that large.

Yes a hole must be cut to get it into the ship. A new door also has to be created to plug in the ship. 

4 hours ago, Biker19 said:

I think some Voyager class ship had some work done at that facility since the Oasis incident.

It could have had wet dock work done, which does not require taking the ship out of the water. The Oasis did go to  Freeport for a propulsion issue, prior the crane incident.The ship  was not taken out of the water. 

1 hour ago, twangster said:

I don't think the Grand Bahama Shipyard was completely shut down but losing some dry docking capacity forced them to choose which ships could get work done with the facilities that were still in service.  They do work on many different types of ships and had contracts into the future.  There are a lot more non-cruise ships out there getting work done at facilities like this.

 

Some ships remained on the calendar, some ships, like Vista, had to make other arrangements.  

Grand Bahama Shipyard is operating at only 25 percent capacity. The dry dock that the bigger ships used to use was declared a total loss and had to be scrapped. Royal could use a floating dry dock like Carnival did, but that was only used once. In order to install the shorepower system, the ship has to be taken out of the water. The Navigator is due for its drydock next year, so that will also get done.

13 minutes ago, Coralc said:

Why do you think they would have to do it on the East Coast? Your speculation is interesting, but I also think it is inaccurate. I am kind of excited to see how it plays out since we live in CALIFORNIA. 

Cruise Lines tend to use the same dry dock facilities that they use to dry dock their ships either through owning part of the shipyard like Freeport or Cadiz where they send all of their ships to in Europe. Cadiz is the closest one that meets that criteria. They use Singapore for the Pacific side, but they will not send it over there. San Francisco can dry dock the Navigator and will for future dry docks. However, Royal will probably want to get this done before cruises resume, so that rules out that facility.

1 minute ago, Coralc said:

 

Okay. If you say so, but they are not sailing Navigator all the way to Cadiz for a shoreside electrical connection fix. I don't think they even need a floating drydock for it. 

They would have to find a dry dock facility in the Eastern US either in Mobile or Norfolk, which the US Navy has priority access and is more expensive to dry dock a ship. They used to use the Virginia dry dock back in the 1990's before Grand Bahama facility came online.  I know they are building a facility in Trinidad and Progresso that can take such a ship, but these dry dock facilities still years from coming online. 

3 minutes ago, Coralc said:

The Bahamas drydock facility can still take smaller ships, just not Oasis class. Where are you coming up with this stuff? 

When the Vista had its propulsion issues, Carnival had to get a floating dry dock for it. The Vista is smaller than the Navigator, so the remaining dry dock facility cannot service it. It can service Radiance class ships, but nothing bigger than that.

1 minute ago, Coralc said:

 

It will be interesting to see how it goes. I'm not ready to predict either way. And I wonder where they will do the drydock? Bahamas or San Francisco? (I think it was Radiance that had a drydock in SF) 

The Bahamas dry dock is still offline from the Oasis crane accident. Likely it will take place either at a dry dock somewhere on the East Coast USA or more likely Cadiz, Spain based on the current schedule. It cannot get into Portland due to bridge restrictions, which is what cruise lines on the West Coast now like to use to dry dock their ships.

3 minutes ago, mpdp said:

So do you think the Nv will transit without guests?  I hope RC gets plenty of bookings to show that the L.A. will support RC.  

Yes. This is due to the type of cruise line that Royal Caribbean normally caters to. If the Navigator was part of Celebrity or Princess. there would be a repositioning cruise.

1 hour ago, WeMissSeaView said:

Is the fuel cost less then the fee for the canal?

While the Navigator can fit in the new locks, it cannot travel under the Bridge of Americas on the Pacific side. As a result, it will have to make the long trip down to South America to get to the Pacific Ocean. Also, Royal will also have send the ship for a quick dry dock to get shore power equipment installed to sail in and out of California waters.  

18 minutes ago, atanac said:

I'm curious if a full Panama Canal transit from Florida to California will be offered?

It will probably be a non-revenue cruise around the Cape Horn. It can get to California quicker this way with just three stops . One in Brazil then in Uruguay and Mexico before California.  When the Mariner did it, it cost Royal a lot of money to get it from Florida to California. Carnival also did non-revenue from Europe on the Panorama.

6 hours ago, tidecat said:

Fanatasy was likely going to suffer the same fate in January 2022 had there been no pandemic. Only a few suites have balconies, and the ship was built in 1990. Even if other ships start sailing in December or January, it will likely be longer before sailing resumes out of Mobile and other smaller homeports like Charleston, Jacksonville, and San Diego.

 

Besides, don't read to much into the ship being refurbished. This was just a mandatory drydock for maintenance on the ship's engine, hull, and propellors. Carnival always does some basic hotel maintenance like replacing the carpet during drydock. These are supposed to happen once every 30 months for ships at least 15 years old, although cruise lines can go up to 36 months.

 

Fascination was sold because she was scheduled for dry dock in November. Now her new owner will be responsible for those costs, and can begin refurbishing the ship to their liking while the ship is out of the water.

The Fascination’s engines could possibly be disabled and permanently docked like the SS Rotterdam V, QE2 and Queen Mary.  Since there are plans to  convert into a condominium ship in Busan, there will not likely be a need to use the ship propulsion. The engines will be kept there regardless to balance the weight of the ship. 

2 minutes ago, drsel said:

When is the last sailing of Sea Princess please

 

 

November 9, 2021. 2-Night Brisbane RT Cruise to Nowhere.

12 minutes ago, drsel said:

5 hours ago, ch09 said:

Carnival Fascination, Carnival Imagination, Sun Princess, Sea Princess and ?.

Surely not Sea Princess?

Sea Princess does not have any sailings past 2021. This would make it a viable candidate for an accelerated retirement.

52 minutes ago, pe4all said:

Trimming the fat.    Guess they have to make up some of their losses somehow.  

Carnival Fascination, Carnival Imagination, Sun Princess, Sea Princess and ?.

56 minutes ago, roeco9084 said:

It looks like Imagination has left Freeport and destination set to Curaco.

This ship will be docking at Mega 2 cruise terminal and will be there for two days and not at Brion Wharf where the Fantasy & Inspiration were tied up. It will also only be there for two days and not five or six. The slot machines likely will be removed whether or not the ship is headed to Turkey  or to cold storage, since Carnival does not own them.

41 minutes ago, Indytraveler83 said:

For better or worse, it seems clear that our time with the Fantasy class is soon coming to an end. (Please do not debate how much you do/don't want them retired here, I'm looking for something else). 

 

We are hoping to have a little more fun on these ships before they vanish entirely, so of the ships left, which ones do you think are the best (current features, differences, level of care)? And specifically which ones still have a decent itinerary in 2021 & 2022 that's longer than 4 days?

The Elation and the Paradise are the best ones remaining as they are newer, have little neon like the earlier ones . The ships had recent refurbs with the cabins using the Carnival Breeze decor. 

2 hours ago, ecarbine said:

So it looks like the Radiance will be taking over.

• Carnival Radiance will move to Long Beach after its renovation is complete and is expected to arrive in April 2021 to begin Baja Mexico itineraries that had been run by Carnival Imagination and Carnival Inspiration previously. 
• Guests booked on Carnival Imagination and Carnival Inspiration after April 22, 2021, will sail on Carnival Radiance.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/25/carnival-other-cruise-lines-cutting-ships-fleets-amid-covid-19/5449857002/

Yes. The Radiance was chosen, since it can be retrofitted to meet California requirements once the refurbishment starts.

7 hours ago, tidecat said:

If more cuts are necessary, it may come down to which drydock can be avoided.

 

Carnival Spirit is scheduled for May 29-June 12, 2021.

 

Carnival Pride doesn't have one scheduled yet, but should have one no later than February 2022.

 

Carnival Legend does not have one scheduled, but is due by May 2021.

 

Carnival Miracle is good until 2022 or 2023. Her most recent drydock is in 2020.

 

Legend may be vulnerable due to the 2021 drydock, but it comes down to where Carnival wants to pare back service. The most likely cut would be in San Diego, with Miracle or Pride splitting time between the Caribbean and Alaska.

 

This has to be weighed against the rest of the fleet as well. Paradise is the only Fantasy-class ship due in 2021 for a drydock, and technically she is due before Legend.

 

Even without COVID-19, the 2020s was going to be a busy decade for ship retirements. There are just too many ships pushing 30.

The Paradise is more likely than not to survive. That ship still has book value left due to a major refurb done in 2018. I expect that Carnival will not add the additional cabins on the Promenade Deck, which the Queen Mary Lounge will still be intact. The dry dock would then be reduced to the mandatory maintenance required with the addition of the Alchemy Bar.