Wehwalt

If the ship has docked and  they don't announce clearance but let tours off, the ship is still cleared and I don't see anything wrong with disembarking then even if not on a tour. I've never heard anyone say you can't. But from what I've seen usually tour departures are at least 15-30 minutes after the ship is expected to be cleared.

Thanks for the info. Do you know who the cruise staff are who are giving the activities such as the trivia games? It's always good to know if we will have friends aboard. That is, if we aren't going to wave at them leaving as we embark 🙂

33 minutes ago, jimdee3636 said:

I'm a retired lawyer. Regarding the legality of the cruise line's standard contract with passengers, it's what's called a "contract of adhesion," which basically means a contract in which the terms are dictated entirely by one party (in this example, the cruise line), with no right to negotiate by the other party (the passenger). In other words, take it or leave it. 

 

Contracts of adhesion are not inherently unenforceable, but in a disputed case they're examined closely by the court, and a judge is not necessarily going to rubber-stamp it just because the passenger "agreed" to it. If a judge believes the contract---or the action taken by the cruise line---was "unconscionable" or "misleading, unfair, or deceptive," the contract can be voided, and monetary damages can be awarded to the passenger.

 

As a practical matter, contract cases don't usually wind up in court unless a lot of money is at stake. But there are "class actions," where similarly-injured plaintiffs can band together, so there may be some hope for passengers financially injured by being involuntarily bumped.

 

Jim

Sure. But there's a waiver of class action in the cruise contract, and the Supreme Court upheld waivers of class action. AT&T Mobility LLC v. Concepcion, 563 U.S. 333 (2011). Also, this isn't a claim for death, injury or illness so there is an arbitration clause that would send the claim to individual arbitration. The Supreme Court ruled regarding forum selection clauses (i.e., you have to sue HAL in Seattle) in cruise contracts that they had a valid purpose, and from what I can see the Washington State courts have not tried to differ. In Carnival Cruise Lines, Inc. v. Shute, 499 U.S. 585 (1991) Justice Blackmun for a 7-2 majority of the Supreme Court wrote that "In this context, it would be entirely unreasonable for us to assume that respondents -- or any other cruise passenger -- would negotiate with petitioner the terms of a forum-selection clause in an ordinary commercial cruise ticket. Common sense dictates that a ticket of this kind will be a form contract the terms of which are not subject to negotiation, and that an individual purchasing the ticket will not have bargaining parity with the cruise line." 

So you'd probably have to take such a claim to arbitration that means no class action. 

Thanks for the daily program. Looking forward to hearing your impression of the activities you attend. We're in the on-deck circle!

1 hour ago, RedIguana said:

 

The judgment of the Captain would not come into play until embarkation day, and is pretty well stated that it is for reasons of health, safety, or the unsuitability of the passenger or passengers.

"Or lodging" is included to address land portions of a trip, such as are found on the Alaskan cruisetours, not staterooms. 

I am surprised the contract does not state they can change your state room at their discretion, and I am pretty sure I have seen that in past contracts on other lines. Although I'm not sure what recourse one would have other than complaining.

Could be you are right. But I suspect a court will interpret "any reason" to mean, "any reason". The rest of it does not restrict the discretion of the cruise line. They would not be doing this unless they were comfortable that it is within their power. And if they find it is not, no doubt there will be a change to the terms and conditions.

I agree it would be difficult to maintain a court action. It might, for one thing, be difficult to prove damages. It would be interesting to see such an action attempted. 

10 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I would hope that, if you're bumped, you would get a call and could make a new choice with a live person, and not get the computer's "best guess." A good TA or PCC might be able to get you a decent upgrade, or you could just be talking to someone at a call center. Until we hear from people who have been bumped, we won't know. 

They'd probably rather not call you. Less trouble.

Yes, I think more information is needed both as to the policy and prevalence, both here and at the Princess board, before any sort of judgment can be made about whether this sort of thing should be defended against, or if it's a super-rare thing that lightning likely won't ever strike us and we shouldn't worry about.. 

50 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

I just read the ticket contract and can find nothing that says HAL can move guests from their chosen stateroom arbitrarily in order to accommodate other guests. The term “Stateroom” appears 20 times and none of those paragraphs even remotely say anything about this new policy being permitted. There are conditions under which you agree to being moved or confined but those have to do with medical conditions and emergencies. I believe if HAL did move guests arbitrarily from their chosen stateroom to accommodate larger parties then it represents a breach of contract and a refund would be in order. 

Just as a hasty glance, Paragraph 4, "Carrier may without liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit, except as provided herein, disembark or refuse to embark You, confine You in a stateroom, quarantine You, restrain You, change Your accommodations or disembark You at any time if, in the sole opinion of Carrier, the Captain or any doctor, You or any minor or other person in Your care during the Cruise, Cruisetour, and/or Land Trip(s), are unfit for any reason for the Cruise, Cruisetour, and/or Land Trip(s), or Your presence might be detrimental to Your health, comfort or safety or that of any other person, or in the judgment of the Captain is advisable for any reason." The key words being "Carrier may without liability for refund ... change your accommodations ... if ... in the judgment of the Captain is advisable for any reason."

Obviously the major purpose of that section is health but it covers anything.

Also Paragraph 8, "Except as otherwise provided, Carrier may, for any reason, without prior notice, cancel the cruise, Cruisetour, and/or Land Trip(s); deviate from the scheduled ports of call, route and timetable; call or omit to call at any port or place or cancel or modify any activity on or off the ship; comply with all governmental laws and orders given by governmental authorities; render assistance to preserve life and property; or change the date or time of sailing or arrival, change the port of embarkation or disembarkation, shorten the Cruise, Cruisetour and/or Land Trip(s), or substitute ships, aircraft or other transportation or lodging." Or lodging.

Personally, I think they should not move people like that especially when they've taken extra money to let people choose their cabin, but they're probably within their rights. It's pretty lousy for the people involved though.

There's no good answer to the shore excursion question. If they sticker on exit then people crowd around the exit in anticipation and after that, especially if the buses are at a distance, it becomes an endurance test which those who don't need the seats at the front of the bus will win. That's assuming that they care enough to get the stickers.

Thanks for the blog. Would you consider posting the occasional daily program, especially from a sea day? We are on the sailing after you.

1 hour ago, rothbury said:

It was just around the ship on a dressy night.

It's a Caribbean cruise. People will dress as they will. 

That happened to me twice. Once, I went to a dentist in Gibraltar, but it came loose soon after I got home and my dentist had to redo it. The second time was in Cape Town on the 2018 GWV. Rather than give up my only free day after an awful safari, I toughed it out until I got home.

My recent experience with Princess shows it is no different there (Regal Princess, October 2024). It was different at one time. on both lines At one time few did it. Then it was talked about and many did it. Then they took it away.

No, we've had this on several cruises, such as a B2B we are taking on the Rotterdam next fall. HAL is sometimes willing to re-allocate a desired room from the Collector's Voyage to the individual sailings, or vice versa. They talk to "inventory".

When I went to Xi'an in 2016, I made very sure to get there as soon as they opened and I was able to view the army and take lots of pictures. Fifteen minutes later, the crowds of Chinese groups descended. They never let up.

49 minutes ago, rodndonna said:

 

What your TA suggested might "work" .... BUT, if I was the Casino comped Guest, I  would then not at all be surprised if they didn't extend any further offers to me (and I would totally understand why)

 

Essentially, if it CAN be done, the comp reservations are effectively "transferable" which defeats the whole purpose of offering a comp to a Casino player. 

Agreed. Guest 1's presence is what HAL wants, in the expectation she will gamble enough to justify giving her the free cruise. To accept the free cruise, but with Guest 1 not there, and telling what amounts to falsehoods to accomplish that, well, there's something ethically wrong with that, at the very least.

I'm just not convinced that the Lido personnel, who are probably busier when it is crowded, should be in the business of regulating occupancy of tables. I just don't see such conversations going well.

The last two times we have been in a Neptune, on the Noordam in July and the Zuiderdam in January, the Neptune Lounge attendant has exchanged the sparkling wine for sauvignon blanc, favored by DW. On the latter occasion the lounge attendant said he had to consult with the cellarmaster, but it went through without a hitch. And we did bring it to dinner in the Lido as we rarely use the dining room. Although the Lido will hold a bottle for you, we preferred to keep the bottle ourselves as they did not refrigerate it.

4 hours ago, mamayer said:

If you put a box or a wine bladder in your checked bag, do they xray and find it?

I cannot say, although it is well known that all luggage is scanned. This is the sort of question, though, which is likely to hit on the division between those here who profess to follow all rules (or at least this one) and don't like to see discussion of evading them, and those who view bringing wine aboard without paying corkage as no big deal; people may phrase their responses accordingly.

19 hours ago, foodsvcmgr said:

Both Celebrity and Royal Caribbean have discreet signs on buffet tables stating along the lines of “reserved for dining only during peak meal hours”.

Seems to work mostly.

I was on the Navigator of the Seas just before its dry dock last month, and I must have missed those signs due to their being so discreet. But Windjammers (the lido) was not open during non-dining hours. Not sure if they kick people out; lunch ends as I recall at 3 and dinner starts at 6. 

19 hours ago, REOVA said:

 HAL used to only do 1 GWV and did it on smaller ships and did segments then as well. I'm sure they feel that two pulls passengers away but there's always a market for segments and its more profitable for HAL. 

Per the bloggers, there were about 1,200 people taking the full GWV this year, with the competition of the Grand Australia. There could be enough to fill the Volendam or come close without the need for segments. Or not. Time will tell.

I would suspect that HAL's hope is, with only one Grand Voyage running, and with a smaller ship, to sell out the GWV without the need to sell segments, and they will not sell segments until, and unless, it is clear that it will not happen. Among other reasons, if you are not selling segments, you do not need to worry about what happens to people who are segmenting if you make a major change to the itinerary like going around Africa instead of through Suez, something important this year, and also next. It sounded to me in his talk like one of Gus's priorities for 2025 if that itinerary must be changed, was getting the Zuiderdam to Barcelona for the rendezvous with the Volendam, and not getting the ship to Piraeus to accommodate the final segment. They would undoubtedly consider it nice not to have to worry about segments.

4 hours ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

He meant no more long cruises competing with each other.   I think the other Grands - Africa, South America, Asia etc will continue.sti

No indication of when the 2025 change will be announced - they are trying to figure out how to bypass Suez but still touch the Mediterranean.  He  mused about challenging the team to see if they could go around Africa "faster"   

Probably wants to keep the overnight together in port in Barcelona with the Volendam, which may be the Big Event of the 2025 GWV ... or get to Piraeus in time to keep the final segment (unless they move the start of the segment to another port). Princess did something similar with their current World Cruise, got the Island Princess around Africa to Rome in time to keep their final segment intact.

6 hours ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

 

why 2025 world and pole to pole same year. 
A. Overly optimistic.   Won't happen again. 
 

So is this saying only one 100-day-plus Grand Voyage running simultaneously, but "no more than one a year" means there might still be a Grand South America or Grand Asia/Pacific of sixty or so days in addition to the GWV?

And did he give any sense of the timeframe the changes to 2025 will be announced?

2 hours ago, LouChamp said:

Aloha. She is doing well and recovering Thank God. What a lovely couple. Not self centered and not self important. Loved reading their posts just like the inside cabin. 

Thanks for the update. We were on board for the first GWV segment and would have enjoyed meeting them. 

4 hours ago, sue1898 said:

They won’t be rejoining the cruise…details on their Facebook page.

Can someone post a few words? Not everyone facebooks.