Harry Peterson

Is it a case of all diners being equal, but some diners more equal than others? Certainly looks that way. Orwell could have written a fascinating book about cruise ships!

9 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I am not too bothered about news and current affairs programmes  since even the Beeb seems to recognise the benefit of having presenters who enunciate correctly.

Unfortunately when it comes to drama, then the broader the accent  and the unintelligible the conversation, seems to be the current vogue, along with background music that soars to be foreground music at crucial points, makes it well nigh impossible for me to follow without subtitles.

I suspect, John, that if we polled members of this forum we'd find a surprisingly high percentage using subtitles either all of or some of the time. Including us.

Apparently it's really common among younger people too (I'm talking Gens Y and Z) - because, it seems, it helps them to multitask:

"Among the many replies DG received were lots of teenagers and people in their early 20s who said they liked using subtitles because it allowed them to multitask."

Multitask?  How?

2 minutes ago, lincslady said:

I loathe 'haitch', but have heard it used on TV by someone with a degree - unfortunately doing a stint at being the temporary Rachel Riley on Countdown!  It is said that some schools now teach it as the way to pronounce 'aitch'.

So do I. With a passion. But it’s pretty much standard English now, even amongst otherwise respectable BBC presenters etc, and I suspect that within 10 years or the original ‘aitch’ will be seen as archaic.

3 hours ago, TigerB said:

We too bemoan the dumbing down and Americanisation of the Queen's (or King's, as it is now) on the BBC, and everywhere else for that matter.  No dear news reader, the year is NOT twenny twenny four!

There’s a wonderful local accent not so far from you. My daughter was teaching there a while back:

End of school.

“Where’s your Mum?”

”Me mam’s gone to vert.”

”Vert?”

”Aye, vert. Dahn at the Perling Station.”

Personally, it’s the ubiquitous ‘haitch’ that I find most annoying.

But it’s a changing language, and if it weren’t we’d all be using Chaucerian English, or something rather older.

9 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Interesting news on the horizon for the Saga stalwarts.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/saga-floats-idea-of-selling-stake-in-ocean-cruises-arm-13056351

Very interesting!  Saga is in deep trouble, and has been for some time.  I suppose this does give them access to the funding to keep them afloat - but at what cost?

1 minute ago, 9265359 said:

Ten years is a long time, and would you expect them to continue with that obligation in another decade or two decades, or a hundred years, or a thousand years.

 

Like it or not things change, and one of those things that has changed in the last decade is how people receive communications.

 

Few people now receive financial documents by post or utility bills or the whole host of business mail that flowed through the Royal Mail a decade ago.

 

And so the option is a straightforward one - a reduced service or no service after Royal Mail goes bust.

It’s entirely a contractual matter. When you sign a long term contract, whether it be in the public or private sector, you accept the consequences of that contract. The fact that the contract was with the government makes no difference. Situations are always changing, and in business if a contract has to be renegotiated there’s invariably a penalty to pay. This is no different.

If International Distributions Services plc goes under, its shareholders lose their money, and the Royal Mail business would be resold or operated under public ownership again. This is all about trying to get the government (at public expense) to bail out the shareholders.

32 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

No way can a business operate where they need to deliver six days a week everywhere in the UK and charge the same cost to deliver it whether it is going two streets away in London or from Lands End to Shetland, and damn all people actually use it to send any letters!

It’s unfortunate, isn’t it, that those were precisely the terms on which the company now running it took over the Royal Mail ten years or so ago. I can see that there are issues, but that’s the responsibility of the company and the shareholders that own it. You win some, you lose some - those are the risks involved in operating and investing in businesses.

Any changes to the Universal Service Obligation which the company signed up to should be paid for - back to the Treasury (meaning us) - by the company and if necessary its shareholders. Not paid for by the general public by accepting a reduced service just to get the shareholders off the hook.

We’re very lucky in that we have a regular postman who we’ve known for some time. Round here they tend to stay for years - at least the older ones did.
 

There was a time not so long ago when deliveries were being regularly missed, entirely due to staff shortages in the nearby city, and the rural guys were being switched out of their normal rounds. If it had been properly organised by the local managers so that we were getting deliveries on alternate days I could have lived with it, but there were gaps of several days at a time. What got me though was the extent to which the managers were prepared to lie about it when formal complaints were put in. I knew we’d had no postmen in the road, the postmen themselves confirmed that, but there were barefaced lies from the Delivery Office to the central complaints team, who were equally happy to lie to the local MP. 
 

The guys doing the deliveries are all great though. Even to the extent of signing for stuff when we’re out. Absolutely against all the rules, I’m sure, but you do get to know who you can trust, and we know them all pretty well. Ice creams on hot summer days help too!

Having been seen on the same morning by a GP a couple of weeks ago for an urgent issue, I’ve nothing to complain about. But there is a major shortage of GPs because the numbers in training have been run down over recent years to save money - despite a rising population, and an increasing percentage of older people, like most of us.

It needs sorting out, but I see little sign of that happening, despite the very obvious need. There simply are not remotely enough GPs to provide the service they used to provide, but most of them are working flat out. It’s not exactly a popular choice for doctors finishing their training.

13 hours ago, mrsgoggins said:

My take on Celebrity v P&O - I appreciate that this will only be of interest to a few, so a warning, it’s wordy so don’t even start it if easily bored 😉

 

As I have declared that we are taking at least 2 more P&O cruises, I hope you would take it that I have no intention of talking P&O down!  This cruise is our fourth time on Ventura and we have also been on Azura and Iona once each - less keen on the latter but have enjoyed our time on them all.  However we are Elite plus with Celebrity, and find the loyalty perks very useful.  We are happy with either international passengers or mostly British, but the things we do value about Celebrity are:

 

1.  Hardly ever needing to share a table - tables for 2 can be close together but there are no banquettes as far as I can recall.  Even if your preferred table is occupied, they like to keep you with the same servers even on Anytime dining unless you request otherwise.  My DH is quite deaf and so in a noisy MDR sharing a table can be difficult as I’ve previously said.

 

2.  The morning breakfast service is usually very slick with someone constantly going around with tea and coffee, another with juices and another with a tray of pastries, in addition to your own table wait staff, who take care of the items you order from the menu.  It’s also the same on Princess btw.  On P&O trying to get refills at breakfast is a bugbear of ours, as I do believe I have already mentioned!

 

3.  I’m not a fan of buffets ever, but the Celebrity buffet before it get crowded can be a thing of beauty whereas the P&O ones on this class of ship have a poor layout in my opinion.  I’ve heard others speak well of the Iona buffet, but we were not impressed when we tried it - the fish and chip counter being the exception.

 

4.  Being able to wander into the theatre 10 minutes before start time and get a good seat. On this Ventura cruise especially, it’s common to stake your claim to a seat 40 minutes before a performance with hardly any left 10/15 minutes before the show.  I do put this down largely to the timing of the theatre shows, which are 8.30 pm and 10.30 pm on Ventura with the vast majority of us wanting the 8.30 show, unsurprisingly.  Both shows would be much earlier on Celebrity (and Princess).

 

5.  I like the Celebrity cabins and bigger bathrooms (no shower curtains) but miss the wardrobe/dressing area of P&O.  I like that Celebrity does not have fiddly theft-proof hangers (but Princess does 🙄).  Celebrity still offer a nightly room service with a chocolate on your pillow.  I would prefer not to have this so a win for P&O.

 

Photos are from Celebrity Apex, which will be berthed in Southampton this coming season.

 

 

 

The 2 things that most often come up in comparisons are food and price of the cruise.  Our take is that meals are going to be better presented on Celebrity and geared more to American taste, but we are happy with both.  Over on the Celebrity boards they complain of it not being what it was with regard to food, much the same as some do on P&O!

 

Price is an interesting one.  I have a spreadsheet of every cruise we have taken, price, what is/is not included etc and I would say it’s not always as clear cut as it might seem.  I have posted a few times before that one of my Celebrity AI Caribbean cruises last year cost less per night than my 2 week Canaries cruise on Iona, booked on opening and with little OBC but with parking!  I accept that Celebrity is usually more costly than P&O for similar itineraries once you have added in gratuities if not on AI, but not always.

 

As elite plus on Celebrity we get free drinks (from a menu) between 5 and 7 pm, 125 free high speed internet minutes each, 2 x free bags of laundry each, and the perk I value most of all, free specialty teas and coffees.  We also get diamond status on Royal Caribbean (Celebrity parent company), so good loyalty perks I think.

 

There are no laundry rooms for personal use on Celebrity but I’m not sure they have many cruises of more than 12-14 nights.  A P&O laundry room is a big bonus.

 

Celebrity ships IMO are quite classy with art works on display throughout the ships.  We have sailed on the Millennium class, Solstice class (favourites) and the newest Edge class.  

 

Different classes of cabins can have different dining rooms, with the majority using the MDRs, but Aqua class guests dine in Blu restaurant (a favourite with DH, not so much me) and suite guests in Luminae restaurant (we’d never see the value in a suite for us).  

 

The speciality restaurant prices can bring a tear to the eye, but that was not always so before the pound ‘tanked’ against the dollar (🤐 @Harry Peterson) and we have dined in them all, but would not pay the prices now.  Epicurean on P&O however, would be good value in my book even without generous OBS, and certainly Sindhu and the Beach House if you care for them.

 

I’ll stop now and try to add a photo of a Celebrity stateroom/cabin (who do they all think they are kidding with the ‘stateroom’ nonsense?)

 

If anyone is still with me and wishes to ask anything specific, please feel free. Thanks to those who lasted to the bitter end 👏😉

Thanks very much for that comparison, and for the level of detail. It does sound very much more like the P&O of some years back, and we’ll take a look at some itineraries. Funnily enough, the two people who first put us on to P&O, many years ago, have both defected - one to Saga and one to Celebrity.

11 minutes ago, Denarius said:

This is correct. At approx 10:35 yesterday evening the captain announced that there had been a fault on one of the ships generators. This had been rectified but he needed to get it checked before venturing into Biscay. He had taken the decision to return to the UK coast for this to be done. So we woke up this morning off the coast of Dorset, almost back where we started. He announced an hour or so ago that the checks should be completed this morning, when a further announcement would be made. Even if we set sail immediately we will have lost nearly three days of our cruise and probably at least two ports.

Sorry to hear that, but thanks for the update. Saga being Saga, though, I’m guessing they’ll do the right thing by you financially. Not remotely what you wanted, or expected, but perhaps at least some small consolation. 

This, perhaps?

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/specialist-forecasts/coast-and-sea/shipping-forecast

8 minutes ago, nellydean said:

Without coming across as stupid, could you tell me why the AirCon would cause people to be ill?

Potentially, the spread of viruses via recirculated air. Aircraft in particular are notorious for it.

6 minutes ago, brian1 said:

Yeah,ham and egg, would you like to enhance this traditional dish with our luxury oven chips for an extra 2 quid.All joking aside not that long ago on Princess when in Alaskan waters we had King crab legs and wild salmon in the MDR AND the buffet.Local dishes were never extra.

Precisely my concern. This has the hallmarks of a reassuringly thin Trojan wedge that could well transmogrify in time into a remarkably thick Trojan wedge.
 

Or horse, but that would be even more concerning……….

18 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Harry is totally correct.  I can assure you that items such as these were offered in the MDR, generally on the black tie formal nights.  Lobster thermidore was regularly offered on other days if the ship was calling somewhere with a special reputation for fish and impromptu items regularly appeared alongside themed dining in the MDR.

 

The "Celebration Night" concept is new, it didn't exist until around 2019.  The "Epicurean" is also a newish invention coming with Britannia at launching in 2015  with Ventura offering "The White Room and Azura 17. The venues rebranded shortly after Britannia launched the Epicurean.  These three restaurants were rarely full and there were often special deals to encourage booking.

 

Incidentally the "special" menu is inside the main dining room menu every night on Britannia. Before I succumbed to my lurgy I only met one couple, honeymooners and first time cruisers, who had bought it. Obviously uptake may have increased while I'm cabin bound.

I'm sorry you've been so unwell and hope you're soon over whatever it is.  I sensed it wasn't good when you said you weren't tackling them on those cancellation fees and the OBC - my wife's comment was: "That's another Radley bag"!

My concern about the add-on menu is more for the future than now, and the principle of the thing. Cruising used to be very much the original 'all-in' holiday and it's ceasing to be so. Ironic, given that all-inclusive holidays have become so popular in other travel sectors.  P&O will be gauging reaction to this, and bit by bit they'll reduce the choices on the main menu until you're more or less forced into the add-ons for anything worth eating. That's not the case now, but give it time. Those 'specials' were once regulars, and some of today's regulars will go the same way.

15 minutes ago, Purdey16 said:

I hope you don’t mind be butting in selbourne but I have a photo of the menu that is extra charge items for Pennib saves you taking a picture .

Thanks. That confirms my fears, because these would once have been standard MDR choices, albeit only occasional.

4 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Interestingly, for the first time in over 50 days of cruising across 3 P&O ships since the new ‘extra cost’ MDR menu items were introduced, the menus were on the tables tonight! They have also been put up outside the MDRs adjacent to the daily lunch and dinner menus. Could it be that P&O no longer wish this to be a secret? 😂 

Am I alone in thinking this is a seriously concerning development? Isn’t the temptation to downgrade the ‘ordinary’ MDR menus to persuade people to upgrade just too great for the bean counters? Meaning that what I’ve always found to be perfectly acceptable MDR menus are likely to become stripped down versions of their former selves?

20 minutes ago, brian1 said:

Rab C Nesbitt despite his unreputable bildungsroman had a sudden refluent after his 10 pints of Kenspeckle,how's that.

Perfect !

Brian 10 

AI  0

17 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Refluent - flowing backwards (usually referring to fluids, rivers etc)

 

bildungsroman - refers to a novel about the moral growth of the main character.

 

Cant see me using either in everyday conversation.

I asked Chat GPT to write me a story containing the words refluent, bildungsroman and kenspeckle.  It duly obliged, but it was a pretty poor job!  

47 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I was given a page per day callander at Christmas with unusual words and their definitions. Some I knew already but there have been the odd ones I didn’t, every day is a school day. Try these ones

 

refluent

 

bildungsroman

Good words!  The first I might have hazarded a reasonable guess at, but certainly not the second.  

My aim now is to use the word whenever possible!  🙂
 

1 minute ago, Eglesbrech said:

I haven’t heard it years and I don’t use it but my Granny used to if she disapproved of what someone was wearing.
 

If any of us popped in before going to the dancing she would mutter it under her breathe but just loud enough to be heard. She did not hold with (at the time) the modern fashions which she defiantly felt were far too conspicuous to be worn out in public!

Thought you might know it. Only came across it today, listening to Michael Rosen’s Word of Mouth. Such a lovely word, kenspeckle, and sounds almost modern. Probably more or less extinct then from what you say. Shame! Nordic in origin, apparently. Highly appropriate maybe for so many of today’s ‘celebrities’.

Bit off the wall, this, but anyone ever make use of the word ‘kenspeckle’?
 

 @Eglesbrech perhaps?

3 minutes ago, TigerB said:

I'm only Abigail on a weekend, I'll have you know!🤭💃🏻

The Alison Steadman character Beverly might be more locationally relevant to your neck of the woods! 🙂

11 minutes ago, TigerB said:

If we were to host a dinner party, like the posh folk do…….

Abigail’s Party?