TYinPalmSprings

14 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

I know that I and others have speculated this is possible, but can you provide the source saying this has actually happened?

Yes. Go to site for Royal Caribbean: www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ship itinerary-updates. The second section titled "Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocol. They describe in detail required action and include the document that you must have signed by your doctor. 

Every day their page changes a bit. The last change was to cancels within 30 days, the only place where they will provide refunds, but going forward the over 70 doctor's rules remain..  

36 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Maybe because other lines including Carnival from the parent corporation have adopted this. Maybe because all indications are that doctors will not sign such a note and their insurance carriers will also tell them not to sign such a note.

RCCL has adopted it too, and it is in force. and yes, I have already been advised by travel buddies over 70 that, even though they are healthy, or have some earlier ailment now under control, their doctors  refused to sign it for anyone.

For those into scenarios and comparisons, here's one that may make it a bit clearer:

You go to a big box retailer and  purchase the latest high end television.  You pay the full amount as required. When you go to pick it up they tell you  they are sorry but they cannot provide it to you....but will keep your money anyway, and give you a credit that can be used for that television in the future...but unfortunately, they may never, or will never, have that television available for you because you do not meet their new policy, and you cannot use  credit on any of their other televisions. And, oh by the way, you only have a limited amount of time to use the credit before it expires and you lose everything.. 

Do you just say that it's okay and walk away? That is what some are suggesting that those who are over 70 do. 

18 minutes ago, jotjot said:

Warning, conspiracy theory alert!!! We got off the Gem a week ago and noticed many people in our age group were physical disadvantage ,we all thought that was great but maybe NCL did not. Let's get around ADA laws like get rid of to many wheelchairs, scooters, oxygen tanks, walkers etc.

If they have oxygen tanks then they have some respiratory issue......same true if MS in wheelchairs. No conspiracy...reality

1 minute ago, Eaglecw said:

So I'm supposed to go see my Dr. who I can't get a appointment with when I am sick and get a letter sign stating that I'm fit to travel. That leaves a large portion of those who cruise out in the cold, because a large percentage of them have the aliments listed.

And already ,many are reporting they are healthy but their doctors refuse to sign anything fearing they may be held liable as so little is known about this virus.....and they have imposed a deadline on the use of the credits  

1 hour ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Are you ok with adults only sections of ships where everyone under 16 is singled out and not allowed to enter?

Difference here is that they took your money first, then booted you off the cruise, maybe offered a credit that you will never be able to use due to their new policy, then kept the money. Theft.

6 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

If your doctor determines that you should not be cruising because of your health, you should not be cruising.  Had to have similar for an Antarctic cruise three years ago.  A general health certificate/screening provides the ship's doctor the opportunity to determine whether the conditions of the cruise could negatively impact your health or cause you health problems the ship cannot resolve.  This is a good thing.  For everyone's benefit, especially yours.  FYI - I'm 75 and spouse is 78.

And did they keep the money you already paid....or did they require this BEFORE you paid?

6 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

You are missing the whole point of the restriction.  The concern is that people over 70 with these conditions are at higher risk of severe complications if they contract the virus.  They may even be more susceptible to catching it.  EM

Then give them back their money 

Just reported: over one half of France's cases of the virus in their hospitals in intensive care are under 60 years of age. The virus may be morphing. Wonder if the cruise lines will take heed and extend the required doctor's document to ALL age groups. Imagine the impact to the cruise lines if this occurs, especially as we are now hearing that many doctors are refusing to sign any document that may hold them possibly responsible.

14 minutes ago, satxdiver said:

Appears as though the cruise lines have now eliminated a large part of their base.  I hope they are prepared to have a lot of extra capacity that will be sailing empty meaning of course lost revenue.  We who are over 70 will gladly take our money and use it for travel in other areas.  

 

As for turning pax away at the terminal, I predict that a lot of lawyers are about to get a lot of business.  

I am hearing from the hallways that there may be a class action lawsuit being formulated. The public damage to their business by this unwise direction will certainly be felt financially beyond the amount they would have paid in refunds and potential legal support. 

17 minutes ago, LMaraist said:

I am confused as well but the statement from celebrity's web site says this . " All guests who are denied boarding due to these restrictions will receive full compensation."   I do not know how they interpret compensation = is it a full cash refund or just cruise credits.  Is there some other travel advisory that specifically mentions a full refund?

 

 

Lots of strange things happening now. Their language is vague at times. Some like Viking are refunding, some just credits with an expiration. Considering the crisis situation right now, they are making it even more confusing.  Take RCCL, for instance.For US cruises they just canceled for the next 30 days they are offering the option of a credit or refund, but for international cruises  they just are offering just a credit that is only good for a limited time and under certain circumstances that make it worthless to many. They are also still selling their cruises for places where the airlines have already cancelled all flights in and out of the areas, assuring people that they will (only) receive a credit if the cruise doesn't happen.  

14 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 

"It is very unfair and discriminatory to those over 70 who may have difficulty convincing their doctor to put his/her signature on a document"

 

If your doctor determines that you should not be cruising because of your health, you should not be cruising .  Had to have similar for an Antarctic cruise three years ago.  A general health certificate provides the ship's doctor the opportunity to determine whether the conditions of the cruise could negatively impact your health or cause you health problems the ship cannot resolve.  This is a good thing.  For everyone's benefit, especially yours.  FYI - I'm 75 and spouse is 78. 

Then, if they change the policy after you pay, then they should refund your money, not issue a credit that you would probably never be able to use before their determined expiration. That's theft.

13 hours ago, Snickersbockerglory said:

I'm really shocked at some of the opinions expressed on this thread!

 

Cruise lines have opted to ask for medical notes not because they want to voluntarily bar the over 70s (why would they when that demographic make up a large section of their market) but because there are real concerns that if you are stuck on a ship and get sick with something like coronavirus, your odds for recovering are shortened. Those who are under 70 and have chronic illness are in the same boat (no pun intended).

 

It's not age discrimination, it's the simple fact that as you get older your immune system weakens.  If you got seriously ill with pneumonia on a ship you would not only create difficulties for the crew trying to manoeuvre the ship to somewhere you could get health care but also inconvenience the other thousands of passengers on board potentially. 

 

Also, to those having a go at celebrity for the policy, the situation is very rapidly changing day by day, and I very much doubt that they have had time to work out all the ins and outs, they are merely trying to respond to government policy, port closures and keeping passengers safe. No one else knows how long this virus is going to last so why would celebrity?  They're not out to get you personally and yet the tone of some of these posts feels like you're taking a global health crisis as a personal affront. 

 

The travel industry will have taken a huge hit this year. This time next year I would be surprised if the industry looked the same, I would imagine many companies may go bust or have to substantially change to survive this crisis. 

 

Given the desperation of Italy and other countries who are struggling to contain the virus and to cope with treating those infected this thread is in very poor taste. I say that as someone for whom the cruise I had booked was a once in a lifetime family cruise to celebrate my 40th birthday, with 4 generations. But the health of my grandmother and parents (and others who may become ill) comes above a holiday. Holidays and money come and go. 

Okay then. The CLIA/cruise lines have changed their policy to refuse passage to a group of people, some of whom will never be able to use a credit,  then, return their money. Otherwise, it is theft. Would you allow this with any other purchase you make. They take the money and do not provide the goods or service after the fact because they changed their policy?  

21 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

 This not fit to cruise thing is only temporary while corona is active. The FCCs are good until the end of 2021 are they not?

Who is to say it is temporary? The cruise line is not saying that. They are only saying they have changed their policy after they took your money, won't return it, and can change their policy at any time. That means they can keep the money from those who have booked that, may, for existence, be later refused boarding because they are handicapped, too fat or morbidly obese (by their definition), or fail some other new qualifier. They also did not do this with the H1N1 in 2009 when it was targeting the young. 

22 hours ago, MartiniBarhooked said:

Just sign you doctors name or put any signature on it.    Here you go.  The people that are worried about this one are the ones who when asked for the email by everyone in the world they give them their real email or real phone number.  Just google search doctor signature there are 100's to choose from.  You think they will call the office and if they do they will really get someone to answer the phone in the office.

 

Just too funny. Needed a good laugh. Hope, if we ever get to sail again, you are on our cruise.

57 minutes ago, MadManOfBethesda said:

Of course it doesn't.  That's why the cruise lines are permitting all healthy 70+ year old people to continue to travel.  So where's the discrimination?

 

And if you're doctor agrees, he'll still be allowed to cruise. So what's the issue?

 

The issue is they took your money, then, after the fact, changed their policy. Sure, they can do that, but then they should refund your money as they will not allow you to cruise in the future under their new policy. The credit is worthless. They just stole your money. 

2 hours ago, fireman999 said:

We are in a similar position it the UK as our government has just issued a statement indicating that people over 70 with chronic health conditions such as diabetes should no go on a cruise holiday. My wife and I both have diabetes and my wife has other health problems and we are due to sail on the QE on the 12th April 2020 on a Circumnavigation Cruise of Australia.

Obviously, we have contacted both our cruise agent by email 4 times with no response except to send us the tickets, together with Cunard who have responded indicting that they are reviewing the situation. Some insurers in the UK are stating that travel insurance is for unexpected events and coronavirus is a known event so they are not liable and if you travel against government advice you may not be covered.

This obviously puts us in am impossible situation and makes think we will never cruise again.

The industry will huge a massive market especially as we are more the market that fills their transatlantic and extended voyages and lines like Viking who have a predominantly old clientele.  

27 minutes ago, pully8 said:

The wording is interesting.  SEVERE  chronic conditions and they have included diabetes.

wonder how they define SEVERE.

Many in the age group post 70 would have a chronic condition including diabetes, however most maybe well managed and controlled.

Would be helpful to have an expert opinion.

Denying everyone over 70 in this way seems an over reach.

Many well under that age including children have diabetes and other conditions that are not well controlled or managed, no restrictions on them?  . 

Ageism is wrong. 

Yes, It's purely discrimination. Back in 2009 when the H1N1 (Swine Flu) invaded the industry, we got rerouted a lot and there was some confusion, but I do not recall them making any similar requirement to the age group that was target for the illness: children and those under 25.  You have paid for the cruise, and now, after the fact, they change the policy, and keep your money. No one is fighting for us right now, unfortunately. 

13 hours ago, Mr&MrsBee said:

Possible situation:  Dr does not sign off. Cruise is paid.  X  denies boarding.  Since you not approved to sail again, what good is a FCC ?  X has your $ but you cannot sail.

This change was put together by the Cruise Line International Association (CLIA). that includes Carnival, RCCL, Princess, NCL,  and just about every cruise line as a member. They put this proposal together, got it approved by the government, and have begun implementing it.  It is very unfair and discriminatory to those over 70 who may have difficulty convincing their doctor to put his/her signature on a document,  fearing potential liability. This is age discrimination, as it is not required of those 69 or under. It makes an assumption about age and the ability to cruise. To my knowledge, when the H1N1 (Swine Flu) in 2009 was primarily affecting those in their youth, and the elderly folks were not really affected, no such requirement was implemented for the young.  Now we are hit with, at best, a credit with the understanding that as of right now the rule going forward is that they will not board you without a doctor's note,. They will not tell you if or when they may change this rule in either direction, but will give you a credit that has an expiration date on it. So, you may never be able to use the credit before it expires. It can save them millions of dollars. If they refuse us entry then they should provide a  refund without further delay. Taking our money and setting a path where we may never be able to to cruise and can never get reimbursed is borderline theft. Kelly Craighead is the CEO of CLIA. Their website is www.cruising.org. I recommend all writing her and expressing your concern. Also contavty your state representative as it appears we are not being supported today.

47 minutes ago, Justalone said:

Agree with you.  For the time being, at least until a vaccine is developed, tested, and safe for the public.   Especially since you are in a high risk group.  Your age, plus underlying health issue, diabetes. I would heed the warnings from CDC, NIH/Dr. Fauci, and U.S. State Department.  And especially to avoid cruises.     Plus if implemented, your Dr. cannot sign off on the Fit to Travel certificate.  FCC advantage to the cruise lines for obvious reasons.

When it is more safe, you may be able to cruise again in the future.

Good luck, and safe travels (just no cruises for now).🙏🙏

JMO

 

If the cruise line  creates a requirement for travel after the fact, and that already paid for customer cannot fulfill the new requirement, then the cruise line should be honest and respectable and refund the money. Issuing a future cruise credit with an expiration date with no assurance that they will ever change their existing rule, or resolution based on other assumptions is something approaching theft. We can thank the Cruise Line International Association, whose members include: NCL, RCCL, Princess, Carnival and just about all the other cruise lines. This organization proposed this new rule to the government and are implementing it. Kelly Craighead is the CEO of their organization. Their website is www.cruising.org.  I recommend we all approach her with our concern

We are in a similar situation. We are booked for a Royal Caribbean  cruise to the Mediterranean for May 2.. Their new policy mandating this required letter, does not state it will be lifted at any time for any reason, now, or going forward. A generic qualifier saying they have the right to modify any of their protocol can be changed at any time. So if you have asthma, diabetes or other ailment that will never go away, a future cruise credit is worthless. They offer you no other option.  They get to keep your money. Obviously Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines in the association who implemented this,   must have realized the large group of us, but have done nothing, nor has our government to this point. Best advice is to contact your congressman.

17 minutes ago, awestover89 said:

Not sure why doctors wouldn't sign it; it's a pretty standard medical liability release. I've had to get similar forms signed for a couple of scuba diving trips and a few other high risk activities. It's not even that different from the form kids need to get signed by a doctor before signing up for sports. 

For the young there is no problem. Getting sign-off from a doctor for youngsters, adolescents, or young adults to dive, or kids for sports, is mostly a rubber stamp. It's for a young body that has not endured the years, and all that is brought on with an aging body.  For those over 70, who this is targeted at, it is different. A doctor who has treated a patient who may have conditions or ailments are being asked to get their doctors to take some responsibility on paper. Sorry, that's a bit different. Without that document, boarding to the 70 + will be denied, and all that is offered right now is a future cruise credit, but, under a NEW policy, because of the terms of it, with no limits set on discontinuing it, if ever,  it will not allow us to book future cruises with them. and the credit worthless.  

2 minutes ago, gritsnc said:

Forgive me if this has already been posted but I work in a doctors office (don't even get me started on the insanity I've gone through this week now that we have cases in my county). A patient brought in a form that Royal Caribbean apparently sent out to passengers in a certain age bracket that they are requiring a physician to sign before allowing passengers to board. 

Yeah, they have posted it on their site. I cannot imagine too many doctors would sign it. How is it being received in your office?

24 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Unfortunately I'm agreeing, this just hit my inbox

I live 10 minutes from DFW airport, and the two counties here that touch DFW airport, that is, Tarrant County and Dallas County, have imposed many emergency restrictions. A DFW based American Air pilot just tested positive for the virus, and it's creating a lot of concern, as is concern for 4 additional people who just tested positive for the virus, including a woman who has not done any traveling. American Airlines, with it's hub here,  has cut travel to and from a number of European airports. My next door neighbor is a pilot, and most of my development airline execs. I'm hearing that air travel does not look hopeful.  Saying a cruise is still "on" for May 2, may be fine for RCCL, but the airline getting there has ceased until at least May 7th. The airlines and cruise lines need to work in harmony.

22 minutes ago, AshleyDillo said:

 

Public perception definitely goes along way when it comes to a company's reputation.  I think this is a big part of the decision that Disney made to shut down.  

Yes, so agree. The perception, combined with the experiences we are living through, especially those of us over 70, will play a significant part in their recovery after all this passes.