Megabear2

That's a very interesting question! I recall someone on a Cunard cruise I was on pre pandemic asking to leave early and being allowed to, but post pandemic I'm not sure if they have to notify local officials.

See my amended comment above re your cover - here's presumably your policy's updated terms. If I test positive for COVID-19, am I covered to cancel my trip? Yes, if you're forced to cancel your trip as a direct result of a positive COVID-19 test, you’re covered for cancellation. You'll need to provide confirmation and evidence of a positive test result.

Well that's great. I assume you have checked with them and have their confirmation in writing just to be safe. Your approach to the questionnaire is exactly what's under discussion about how it spreads so quickly. You are on my cruise so at least will have tested by requirement.

It's not optional on the most expensive cruises. If I test positive 48 hours before I fly, I'm into possible £8,200 loss. Admittedly I will have a positive test but it's not a PCR. I'm thinking of paying extra to get that as my fit to fly rather than the one requested by P&O, at least if the worst happened I'd have a PCR result.

Dave, I believe the AXA policy is particular to TUI and therefore Marella. It is a specially negotiated policy for that company and not a "normal" AXA policy. Therefore I should expect that Marella will have spoken to AXA before changing their terms which of course is the correct thing to do. I've asked Holiday Extras if P&O have done the same with them: stoney silence! Read into that what you may.

That's fine if your insurer guarantees your cover. It would appear however the cancellation is based on proof you have covid whereas P&O policy is not apparently medically confirmed and is just computer driven. The case I mentioned previously which made me look at it was a lady who declared she had a cough. She did not have nor ever had covid but was on antibiotics from her doctor for a chest infection. She was refused boarding. Her sister and family had to travel without her as they hadn't answered the questionnaire with yes anywhere. The lady appealed and was told by P&O no appeal or discussion allowed as it was for the ship safety. She is now fighting her insurer who says no cover because she hasn't got a positive covid test. It continues but is understandably very distressing and difficult. We have three policies here, Allianz through our bank, Post Office for me as all singing and dancing nothing not covered and Avanti for my husband because of winter sports cover with health conditions. All three say you require proof of a positive covid test to claim under their covid section, including denied boarding. It also has to be confirmed by a PCR, the observed LFT requested by P&O for my Caribbean fly cruise does not suffice.

As this is descending into but you had no guarantees argument, let's stop arguing amongst ourselves and answer a couple of questions to see what we thought we were buying: 1. Did you book believing your money was safe and you weren't at risk of losing it in its entirety, ie FCC would be paid to cover you? 2. If FCC was always going to disappear did you book expecting your money would be totally covered in some other means, ie your insurer would indemnify you in full for your loss? 3. Did you book thinking if you were quarantined on your cruise you would receive FCC for your lost days? 4. If FCC for quarantine disappeared did you believe your insurance policy would pay out for your lost days due to confinement? If so did you think it was under the specific covid section or the "normal" confinement to cabin section? 5. In light of all the possible connotations and problems associated with the now in place policy are you confident your money and holiday is safe? 6. Who has actually read their covid insurance policy in detail to ensure you have the cover P&O are suggesting you will be covered under? 7. Who is happy to risk the entire cost of their holiday on a ridiculous health questionnaire that a computer algorithm decides on - are you really happy to answer truthfully and possibly lose every penny you have spent or spends months arguing with an insurance claims company and P&O? 8. In light of this new policy and vague referral to your insurers would you now book a cruise under these terms? Terms and conditions aside, I'd say these are pretty reasonable questions a lawyer would ask his opposing P&O lawyer. Anyone want to answer these on here to get a straw poll opinion of what they though?

Indeed but they are using it and people trying to answer truthfully will stumble and fall.

No. It's the computer algorithm. You do not get an appeal and no medical people are involved.

I'm a great believer in tackling issues before we get anywhere legal stuff. I think the best way for people to challenge this is to see what their insurance company will pay out for, on what proof and under which section. It shouldn't be forgotten the covid section of policies is totally separate from the normal policy and as such has totally different requirements. If you find it's uninsurable in any way write to Paul Ludlow and the legal department and ask why they are offering false hope to their customers. Anyone choosing to do this needs to be very thorough in questions and most importantly needs to ask about the people not testing positive but refused boarding. Very important to ask if a positive PCR test is required for any claim for anything and also to check how much confinement cover would pay and if quarantine/isolation for covid is covered - it wasn't for someone else.

Let's hope you and your good lady don't end up in quarantine or worse with covid before you go. The "complaints" that you refer to can lead to very major financial loss which most people would rightly question. P&O have apparently not liaise with their insurance partners regarding quarantine being covered by insurance so you stand to lose a lot of money - as Funboy is finding out. Are you truthfully telling us that is okay with you - say you test positive on the 3rd day of your transatlantic and quarantine immediately for minimum 6 days, you'd be happy? Or would you be angry because when you booked you were told you'd get FCC and now you won't. Fingers crossed for you to sail safely.

I think that post was deleted as off topic on the Baltics thread. I'll try to report the lady's story here later.

Agree totally Harry. Those affected need to fight hard via the law. Those of us yet to sail need to press and get in writing our insurers stance on this much the same as we did last year. Very difficult to confront the cruise lines without ammunition. Noticeably neither Holiday Extras or P&O have responded to my questions which I raised after speaking to Allianz, Post Office and Avanti who are our insurers.

If an enquiry is made to a t/a it may well not be available to them either. It could just be they haven't recently updated their website offerings.

I don’t think it was a complaint more an observation. Undoubtedly large numbers are now getting unwell, be it mild or in some unfortunate cases worse. I think the observation is that it's a different ballgame to when the decision was made to cruise and money was parted with. At that point it was relatively easy to understand - everyone was full vaccinated, took a test and wore a mask in public areas. If you were unwell in the 10 days before travel or a close contact you and your party would not be able to travel but wouldn't lose your holiday as a full FCC meant you could take it later without financial loss. If you became unwell during your holiday you were quarantined but again received FCC to put towards another holiday where hopefully you would not get unwell again. Now it's a lottery. Yes, everyone is still vaccinated but no one is required to test at any point and it appears virtually no one wears a mask - they are of course at total liberty to do so, nothing wrong in that. FCC has been done away with so faced with answering a medical questionnaire passengers are in a personal dilemma, do I admit I've had a bit of a cough and know I will be refused boarding or do I just tick yes and go. If they choose the honest option the P&O algorithm says you're not coming on, no debate no chance to speak to someone medically trained, computer says no. The person then has to enter the muddy waters of an insurance claim to retrieve and rescue their holiday costs. This can amount to thousands of pounds - let's use the cost of my December holiday as an example £8,200 in cruise fare, flight upgrade and seat selection. The person most likely will have an excess on their policy, generally £75 on the top selling one. The seat selection cost is not covered in the policy so unless P&O treats it as a refundable extra in the same way as an excursion it will be lost. So for 2 passengers we are looking already at a loss of £152 for seats and £150 policy excess. To add to all this palaver you actually have to prove to your insurer you really had or have covid in that 10 days. Most policies' wording state your proof is a PCR test, you however can't get one on the NHS because UK government policy says they aren't necessary. So you start to look at the private sector, oh dear my nearest one is 50 miles away, they cost around £50 and won't test you if you have symptoms so I'd better buy a postal one, oh dear none in stock so it will be a day to get it then you post it and 48 hours later you'll get a result. Ahh Mrs C you say you had the symptoms a few days back but feel totally well now? We can't guarantee a positive result then. Sure enough there's no positive result so back to the insurer. Sorry Mrs C you have no provable claim I'm afraid so we have no obligation to pay you. Sorry, goodbye and I'm now standing saying a very expensive goodbye to my £8,200!!! If however I'd booked a nice all inclusive 2 weeks on the beach in Barbados there would have been no medical questionnaire, no test and I'd be enjoying the beach without a care in the world and eating Christmas Dinner in 30 degrees! Let's leave quarantine for another day, I'm sure we will be hearing a great deal more from the unfortunates on that one! In a nutshell we are being asked to play Russian roulette with our money as the cruise lines clearly have just made another blanket decision apparently without consulting and checking with the insurance industry how they will react and apply these new rules - at least that's what my insurers are telling me.

Presumably it is now going to impact staff and service levels as well which doesn't augur well with only a couple of weeks left in Europe before the transatlantic to the Caribbean. Interesting they took action after a customer complaint.

If not there's going to be alarm bells in the insurance brokers. I assume numbers must be pretty high on both these ships which is very sad for all involved.

Not going too well with this new no testing or masks then. Ventura also under compulsory mask mandate. Interesting its come from ashore rather than onboard.

As far as I am aware there is no longer FCC for any reason I'm afraid. Suggest you give them a call to see if anything can be done. Sorry.

Excellent news. Hope you have fun in Copenhagen tomorrow.

No. He was talking about how successful it had been and how foresees steeper prices on all ships. I don't think it was the sort of forum where he would discuss his fleet.

As Picsa observed the new cruisers on the cheapy cruise this year knew no better. Tye way things are with service issues a very large number of those loyal small ship supporters appear to be saying not this time mate either. Could be totally different in future with one lot unhappy with service and the others too poor to sail

No idea what the pay grades are but on Celebrity in June i was told by several staff that recruitment was proving difficult and people were keen to swap to Virgin as the work conditions (own room, shorter hours) were better along with higher pay. That seems to indicate there are other things apart from pay at work here.

Paul Ludlow stated that fly cruises have been their weak spot. This certainly seems true if you look at the leftover 2022 and early 2023 cruises. Mind you lots of the offers now have no flights included so presumably that is the bugbear. Will be interesting to see whether any of those Azura prices drop or whether they go the OBC route to try to shift them. Incidentally as I asked the question, no I'm not booking anything else in fact I recently cancelled an October cruise as since June I've hardly been at home with trips in and out of Italy and am tired of travelling at present. We have Christmas this year on Britannia locked in with everything including excursions and WiFi paid for but the basic cost plus the "treat" of PE seats has set us back £8,200 which is really quite ludicrous. We have a deposit on Arvia for Christmas 2023 and a land based 10 days in Kefalonia in July next year and the cost of these two is approaching £11,000 so if circumstances continue to worsen the Arvia cruise may bite the dust to become a last minute saver.

Very interesting article in Travel Weekly with Paul Ludlow speaking at their Future of Travel Conference last week. Standout points were high capacity exceeding their target and the strength of ex Southampton sailings compared to the fly cruises. The ominous rumblings for future cruise prices however, aren't so good : "But we are not immune to cost pressures in our business – we will have to push ticket prices significantly up but even with that, we will do well.” With the new launch only a couple of weeks away, how do you feel about ticket prices rising significantly and how do you think they will impact your decision to book? Do you think Paul Ludlow is right to be so confident that P&O will carry on doing as well he says? This presentation was of course made before the financial statement from the Government with all the turmoil that has followed and presumably some things like pound to dollar exchange rates may now be ringing some alarm bells. https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/cruise/southampton-a-massive-advantage-for-po-cruises-amid-disruption