OK, I Want Specifics on MDR Smart Casual

[DocJohnB]

I think its a fair question.

 

Although the question has been asked and answered ad nauseum on these boards you would be right if it were asked by a "newbie".

 

If your 15 cruises had all been on Celebrity, then I would disagree with you. The rules haven't changed that much (if at all) . . . . the enforcement (ahhh, that is a different story).

 

I just question the asking of that question by someone who has cruised on Celebrity 22 times in 9 years.

[FinelyCruising]

Although the question has been asked and answered ad nauseum on these boards you would be right if it were asked by a "newbie".

 

If your 15 cruises had all been on Celebrity, then I would disagree with you. The rules haven't changed that much (if at all) . . . . the enforcement (ahhh, that is a different story).

 

I just question the asking of that question by someone who has cruised on Celebrity 22 times in 9 years.

 

I agree that you can question what you please, but disagree as a sweeping generalization. I am still not clear on what their ideas are. And they have changed them quite a bit IMHO. They have eliminated the Informal, so out goes the jacket and tie. But somehow jackets seem to still be in the mix... but without a tie, yes or no? In the Specialty venues when they were always required...yes or no? There are many valid questions, even from me.

[Gracie115]

I think its a fair question. I cruised in March and I have no idea what to expect sometimes when I cruise. They roll out ideas and they change things up in the middle of the game. It's a pain to me at this point, but I keep it simple. I dress like I used to and I know there are plenty around me who do the same.

 

One rule, no jeans. Have never brought them on one single cruise, so I never have to worry about when they are OK or not, but then again I only have about 15 cruises under my belt. ;)

 

OH well..doesn't matter whether it was a "fair" question...we all chose to answer anyway. "Smart Casual's" definition has been the same for long time so don't know why a veteran X cruiser wouldn't know what it meant.......but my memory is not what it used to be either.....so who knows...

[FinelyCruising]

OH well..doesn't matter whether it was a "fair" question...we all chose to answer anyway. "Smart Casual's" definition has been the same for long time so don't know why a veteran X cruiser wouldn't know what it meant.......but my memory is not what it used to be either.....so who knows...

 

It has been less than one year.

[DocJohnB]

I agree that you can question what you please, but disagree as a sweeping generalization. I am still not clear on what their ideas are. And they have changed them quite a bit IMHO. They have eliminated the Informal, so out goes the jacket and tie. But somehow jackets seem to still be in the mix... but without a tie, yes or no? In the Specialty venues when they were always required...yes or no? There are many valid questions, even from me.

 

From Celebrity's website:

 

Examples of "Smart Casual and Above" and "Formal" attire include:

 

Smart Casual and Above

 

Ladies: Skirt or pants (no holes, rips or tears) complemented by sweater or blouse.

 

Gentlemen: Pants (no holes, rips or tears) with sports shirt or sweater. Shirts must have sleeves.

 

Note: T-shirts, swimsuits, robes, bare feet, tank tops, baseball caps and pool wear are not allowed in the main restaurant or specialty restaurant at any time. Shorts and flip flops are not allowed in the evening hours. Additionally, guests are asked to follow the "Smart Casual and Above" dress code in the Celebrity Theater for all evening performances.

 

Formal

 

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit

 

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks

 

 

Before Six

Dining options abound aboard Celebrity. For breakfast and lunch, jeans, shorts and casual daywear are allowed in all dining venues before 6:00pm. After 6:00pm, this attire is allowed only in casual restaurants and cafés. my emphasis.

 

 

I fail to see any ambiguity here. Smart casual AND ABOVE should indicate that the examples are the minimums. Anything more is certainly acceptable, anything less is not.

 

As to your jacket and tie. Who put that in the mix. Celebrity? Doesn't appear to me to be the case. Certainly if I want to wear a jacket and tie, because it is above the minimum. . . . . fine.

 

You are absolutely right they did eliminate the Informal requirement, but the replaced it with the "Smart Casual and Above" and even gave examples. What is so difficult to understand about that.

 

Some people want to "wordsmith" this situation to justify their wants. Why? Simply to "stir the pot"? IMO . . . could be.

 

So, I do fail to see the "validity" of such questions.

[lifevicarious]

I have no idea what you are saying here. I disputed that Celebrity cares "more" about new cruisers and I'm the one who thinks it's nice to have some experience before giving advice. Read the sentence carefully.:confused:

 

You insinuate that I should not give advice as I have no experience. My point was that experience doesn't count for much when the rules are always changing (hence the past is not indicative of what will happen going forward). You have said multiple people stated to you that Celebrity does not allow jeans yet I have shown sources that say they are allowed (as have others on this thread). Why is your experience of any more value when it is obviously not entirely correct? I don't care how much experience you have on the rules as a Celebrity rep I spoke with today directly contradicts your experience. You also say it is "clear" based on your experience they do not want jeans, yet it is anything but clear and in fact it seems clear to me that they do allow them.

 

I can guarantee that they are more interested in people who sail four or five times a year regularly that one hit or miss cruiser. There's no doubt they need to attract new cruisers to fill the ships, but they are not "more" interested in them than people who sail frequently. If they start making their experience too much like any other, they will lose their loyal following.

 

Yes, you are correct. They care more about ONE frequent cruiser more then ONE first time cruiser. But that's not what I said. Perhaps you should read the sentence carefully. "It's certainly easier to attract a repeat customer, but compared to those who haven't cruised, the population of past celebrity cruisers is tiny." Cruise lines are doing anything and everything they can to attract new customers, hence all the changes away from "tradition" which very much limits the interested audience.

 

The bottom line is this argument will never end. Many don't like the idea of jeans in the MDR during dinner and perhaps Celebrity doesn't even like it. But never the less, it is allowed and sometime soon I'm willing to bet it will no longer be only the minority wearing them.

[Ma Bell]

You are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. Mine is based on lots of experience.;)

 

Most people who have never cruised probably never will. If I'm in charge of marketing I'm looking for people who are likely to use my product. If they want to fill up their ships in the summer or on holidays, they need to appeal to the masses. If they want to keep them filled year round, they better keep their loyal customers. Cruising will always be aimed at people who have the time and the money to enjoy it. It's not a weekend vacation.

[FinelyCruising]

From Celebrity's website:

 

You are absolutely right they did eliminate the Informal requirement, but the replaced it with the "Smart Casual and Above" and even gave examples. What is so difficult to understand about that.

 

Some people want to "wordsmith" this situation to justify their wants. Why? Simply to "stir the pot"? IMO . . . could be.

 

So, I do fail to see the "validity" of such questions.

 

Well I can tell you they change the "examples" on the website frequently, and it never seems to eliminate the questions.

[Amerie]

What I said was it is one small place on the website that certainly isn't the most logical place to show it. And it's basically a foot note to the main entry that doesn't at all talk about jeans. It also certainly isn't in the edocs which is what most people would actually read (it's the only thing I or my wife read cover to cover). I don't see anywhere it states that all passengers must read the entire website before boarding. So if, as you stated, Celebrity "clearly" doesn't want jeans, I suggest you call them up and have them amend their e-docs and website so it is in fact "clear".

 

As for my first Celebrity cruise, what is your point? How do you know if it is or isn't? And what difference could it possibly make? If anything, Celebrity probably cares more about first time cruisers then repeat cruisers as the market of first time cruisers is far bigger then repeat customers.

 

I also just called Celebrity to ask about jeans. The rep said he had seen "many people wearing jeans in the main dining room" on his last few cruises. He also said no hats or shorts, which coincidentally is exactly what the dress code and edoc states.

 

So I will gladly report back to you on the 28th when I am back home after my Xth cruise on Celebrity. I will also be sure to ask some of the people you mentioned you have talked to to get their views.

 

As far as being in a very small minority, I'm sure I will be anyway on my next cruise given my other attributes and the length of the cruise.

 

1. Re: "One small place on the website":

 

This is, in fact, the MAIN place on the website that talks about PROPER dining attire. As far as the website is concerned, it is the primary and most comprehensive area for guidelines re: appropriate dress.

 

(Anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of any kind of manual or set of guidelines knows that FAQ's are ALWAYS secondary to the main areas where the guide lines are laid out in full.)

 

 

2. Re: "isn't the most logical place"

 

You get there entirely logically, easily, and directly from the home page:

 

Onboard Experience >> Dining >> Proper Dining Attire

 

 

3. Re: "basically a foot note to the main entry"

 

In the "Proper Dining Attire" section, first you are given a chart indicating the relative frequenccy of the two types of dress codes, then some "examples" are proved for each category of dress. These sections apply to minimum levels of dining attire for the ship at large (this includes "casual restaurants and cafes"). Because jeans ARE allowed in casual restaurants and cafes, there is no proscription against jeans included here, however...

 

The next full paragraph (sorry, NOT a footnote) includes the necessary clarifications, and says quite clearly: Dining options abound aboard Celebrity. For breakfast and lunch, jeans, shorts and casual daywear are allowed in all dining venues before 6:00pm. After 6:00pm, this attire is allowed only in casual restaurants and cafés. (i.e. NOT in the MAIN DINING ROOM).

 

Anyone may choose to ignore this statement, but the language is perfectly clear, and the intent is clearly signalled by the use of the phrase "not allowed". This is NOT an equivocal statement.

 

I will admit that it would be helpful if the cruise docs and the website were worded the same.

 

With respect to "enforcement", Celebrity is a cruiseline where, in general, gracious behaviour prevails. Please do not expect the maitre d' to cause a scene or embarrasment for anyone. Wearing jeans, after all, is not an egregious error in the greater scheme of things, it's just not classy when you've been asked not to wear them.

Enjoy your upcoming cruise!

 

:)

[Ma Bell]

Unfortunately the Celebrity reps on the phone many times don't have a clue what they are talking about and most of them have never been on a cruise. I'm amazed at some of the things that they tell people. Customer service on the phone is very poor. Customer service on the ships is great.

[DocJohnB]

Well I can tell you they change the "examples" on the website frequently, and it never seems to eliminate the questions.

 

Then at times, one needs to make up ones own mind, regardless of the opinions of others (including mine).

[FinelyCruising]

Then at times, one needs to make up ones own mind, regardless of the opinions of others (including mine).

 

Yes, and at times following consensus. (Of a valid question here on this board):D

 

The OP did come back and say Thanks, the orignal question was answered.

[Cruise Junky]

1. Re: "One small place on the website":

 

This is, in fact, the MAIN place on the website that talks about PROPER dining attire. As far as the website is concerned, it is the primary and most comprehensive area for guidelines re: appropriate dress.

 

(Anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of any kind of manual or set of guidelines knows that FAQ's are ALWAYS secondary to the main areas where the guide lines are laid out in full.)

 

 

2. Re: "isn't the most logical place"

 

You get there entirely logically, easily, and directly from the home page:

 

Onboard Experience >> Dining >> Proper Dining Attire

 

 

3. Re: "basically a foot note to the main entry"

 

In the "Proper Dining Attire" section, first you are given a chart indicating the relative frequenccy of the two types of dress codes, then some "examples" are proved for each category of dress. These sections apply to minimum levels of dining attire for the ship at large (this includes "casual restaurants and cafes"). Because jeans ARE allowed in casual restaurants and cafes, there is no proscription against jeans included here, however...

 

The next full paragraph (sorry, NOT a footnote) includes the necessary clarifications, and says quite clearly: Dining options abound aboard Celebrity. For breakfast and lunch, jeans, shorts and casual daywear are allowed in all dining venues before 6:00pm. After 6:00pm, this attire is allowed only in casual restaurants and cafés. (i.e. NOT in the MAIN DINING ROOM).

 

Anyone may choose to ignore this statement, but the language is perfectly clear, and the intent is clearly signalled by the use of the phrase "not allowed". This is NOT an equivocal statement.

 

I will admit that it would be helpful if the cruise docs and the website were worded the same.

 

With respect to "enforcement", Celebrity is a cruiseline where, in general, gracious behaviour prevails. Please do not expect the maitre d' to cause a scene or embarrasment for anyone. Wearing jeans, after all, is not an egregious error in the greater scheme of things, it's just not classy when you've been asked not to wear them.

 

Enjoy your upcoming cruise!

 

:)

 

But it's not there when you search for Dress Code. How many layers does Celebrity expect one to search when looking for the dress code? I don't wear jeans in the dining room on any ships and I really don't care what others wear, but for heavens sake would it kill Celebrity to have some consistency and update both parts of it's website that talks about the dress code? it's only in two places how hard is it to get them to say the same thing? And there's a huge % of cruises that don't have access to the net so it should be very clear in the edocs and it's not.

[richsea]

What a pity!:( Another dress code thread rehashing the dress code with the same tired points over & over & over again..........and started by a long time Celebrity cruiser who I would have thought knows better.:confused:

[lifevicarious]

1. Re: "One small place on the website":

 

This is, in fact, the MAIN place on the website that talks about PROPER dining attire. As far as the website is concerned, it is the primary and most comprehensive area for guidelines re: appropriate dress.

 

Who says this is the main place?

 

I go to the website, I type in "dress code" in the search and it pulls up four FAQ's, none of which mention ANYTHING about jeans. If I want to know what I should wear, I search out the section that talks about the dress code. No where in the dress code does it state anything about jeans. In no way would I search for "proper dining attire", nor would I guess many would.

 

Regardless, not everyone who cruises goes to their website. And the edocs don't mention anything about jeans either.

 

(Anyone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of any kind of manual or set of guidelines knows that FAQ's are ALWAYS secondary to the main areas where the guide lines are laid out in full.)

 

Anybody with a rudimentary knowledge of the internet knows that FAQ's are the most frequently asked questions (hence the 'FAQ') and if the correct answer is not in that FAQ (nor is there a link to the "main area") it certainly isn't the users fault.

 

 

2. Re: "isn't the most logical place"

 

You get there entirely logically, easily, and directly from the home page:

 

Onboard Experience >> Dining >> Proper Dining Attire

 

And I got to a page logically, easily, and directly from the home page by searching for "dress code". Don't blame me for Celebrity's lack of consistency. Two of the four places I have found information today don't mention jeans, one told me they were expressly allowed, and only one says anything about them, in a sub paragraph below the text that is printed everywhere else.

 

 

3. Re: "basically a foot note to the main entry"

 

In the "Proper Dining Attire" section, first you are given a chart indicating the relative frequenccy of the two types of dress codes, then some "examples" are proved for each category of dress. These sections apply to minimum levels of dining attire for the ship at large (this includes "casual restaurants and cafes"). Because jeans ARE allowed in casual restaurants and cafes, there is no proscription against jeans included here, however...

 

The next full paragraph (sorry, NOT a footnote) includes the necessary clarifications, and says quite clearly: Dining options abound aboard Celebrity. For breakfast and lunch, jeans, shorts and casual daywear are allowed in all dining venues before 6:00pm. After 6:00pm, this attire is allowed only in casual restaurants and cafés. (i.e. NOT in the MAIN DINING ROOM).

 

I said "basically" so please don't state I said it was a footnote.

 

Anyone may choose to ignore this statement, but the language is perfectly clear, and the intent is clearly signalled by the use of the phrase "not allowed". This is NOT an equivocal statement.

 

For those who see it. But again, it was the last place I (not you, but ME) would look. I searched for dress code, nothing about jeans. I read the edocs, nothing about jeans. I called and asked and was told I could wear jeans.

 

I will admit that it would be helpful if the cruise docs and the website were worded the same.

 

Let's not forget the representatives answering questions, and all of the staff onboard who let it happen.

 

With respect to "enforcement", Celebrity is a cruiseline where, in general, gracious behaviour prevails. Please do not expect the maitre d' to cause a scene or embarrasment for anyone. Wearing jeans, after all, is not an egregious error in the greater scheme of things, it's just not classy when you've been asked not to wear them.

Enjoy your upcoming cruise!

 

:)

 

Yet again, I was told specifically I could and the other two areas I read don't state that you can't wear them. Even based on the numbers it appears one can wear jeans. If Celebrity can't even keep their documentation / representatives consistent on such a hot topic, you certainly can't expect people to know what the rules are.

[lifevicarious]

But it's not there when you search for Dress Code. How many layers does Celebrity expect one to search when looking for the dress code? I don't wear jeans in the dining room on any ships and I really don't care what others wear, but for heavens sake would it kill Celebrity to have some consistency and update both parts of it's website that talks about the dress code? it's only in two places how hard is it to get them to say the same thing? And there's a huge % of cruises that don't have access to the net so it should be very clear in the edocs and it's not.

 

Thank you, I should have read your post before writing mine.

[FinelyCruising]

Folks, lets agree that its not easy to navigate this topic and Celebrity should just change the language again and enforce it; and for one last time this year.:o

[Ships R Great]

Now my feelings are officially hurt. I have not cruised since "smart casual" came into effect. No, I did not know what it meant. As to my many cruises on X ---as an experienced cruiser I would not want to dress inappropriately. I know what "informal" is but I have not experienced "smart casual" I am sorry I have offended some of you.

 

(Richsea, you know me better than to make such a comment.)

 

I was not trying to "stir the pot". My question was legitimate.

[richsea]

Now my feelings are officially hurt. I have not cruised since "smart casual" came into effect. No, I did not know what it meant. As to my many cruises on X ---as an experienced cruiser I would not want to dress inappropriately. I know what "informal" is but I have not experienced "smart casual" I am sorry I have offended some of you.

 

(Richsea, you know me better than to make such a comment.)

 

I was not trying to "stir the pot". My question was legitimate.

 

I am truly sorry if I offended you Patty. I never thought that you were trying to "stir the pot". It's just that every single one of any of these threads having to do with any part of the dress code turn into a pi##ing contest about what is right, wrong or in between. And there are no winners. You know..... I'm sure that you've seen it a thousand times over the years. As a long time Celebrity cruiser, I just assumed that you know how to dress, but you know what they say about "assume"............

 

Again, please accept my apology.

 

Rich

[Ships R Great]

I am truly sorry if I offended you Patty. I never thought that you were trying to "stir the pot". It's just that every single one of any of these threads having to do with any part of the dress code turn into a pi##ing contest about what is right, wrong or in between. And there are no winners. You know..... I'm sure that you've seen it a thousand times over the years. As a long time Celebrity cruiser, I just assumed that you know how to dress, but you know what they say about "assume"............

 

Again, please accept my apology.

 

Rich

 

Apology certainly acceppted, Rich. I wasn't really offended, just surprised. I guess all I wanted to know was how dressy it should be. And you are right, I guess, the subject is beaten to death. Maybe everyone will lay this thread to rest. ;)

[richsea]

Apology certainly acceppted, Rich. I wasn't really offended, just surprised. I guess all I wanted to know was how dressy it should be. And you are right, I guess, the subject is beaten to death. Maybe everyone will lay this thread to rest. ;)

 

Thanks, Patty.

 

We have found that "smart casual & above" is basically the same as casual dress was on Celebrity before the change. My guess is that Celebrity added "& above" to appease those that would complain about the loss of "informal" nights. In a nutshell, all the did was eliminate informal night.

[welwyngirl]

What's the consensus on wearing leggings, then?

[Bridge Maven]

Thanks, Patty.

 

We have found that "smart casual & above" is basically the same as casual dress was on Celebrity before the change. My guess is that Celebrity added "& above" to appease those that would complain about the loss of "informal" nights. In a nutshell, all the did was eliminate informal night.

 

I agree with you. Smart casual sounds like country club casual which has more sophisticated connotation than just plain casual.

[FinelyCruising]

I agree with you. Smart casual sounds like country club casual which has more sophisticated connotation than just plain casual.

 

Yes, but in the same breath as eliminating Informal and renaming it Smart Casual, left others to align it as an industry synonym akin to Country Club Casual. Add to that mix that jeans were OK'd in the DR in the same fell swoop.

 

Result: As they eliminated a dressier standard of style combined with simultaneously including a very specific casual dress style via the inclusion of jeans, the commingling of Country Club Casual and Clubbing were forever fused in peoples minds as one.

 

What a failed attempt to make it better.

[Bridge Maven]

Yes, but in the same breath as eliminating Informal and renaming it Smart Casual, left others to align it as an industry synonym akin to Country Club Casual. Add to that mix that jeans were OK'd in the DR in the same fell swoop.

 

Result: As they eliminated a dressier standard of style combined with simultaneously including a very specific casual dress style via the inclusion of jeans, the commingling of Country Club Casual and Clubbing were forever fused in peoples minds as one.

 

What a failed attempt to make it better.

 

Do you know what is ironic about this? When my husband and I took our first cruise 35 years ago there was no dress code per se. Yet everyone dressed in something that they felt was appropriate for the Captain's Welcoming Reception, which was often dressier than what is considered to be formal today. Then on the other nights people typically dressed in an outfit that would have been appropriate for the middle dress code that was recently eliminated.