CSI coming to all cruise ships - Matsui's Cruise Vessel Safety and Security Act

[djneph]

Hey Everyone,

 

I came across this today and havent seen this mentioned on cruise critic. The intentions seem good. Not sure how this will affect the industry with all the requirements put on them. Then again, maybe it would have no affect since its possible the industry meets most of the requirements already. Here a few of the requirements. Like with just about every law some parts are good some parts may not be good.

 

Video Cameras to record crimes and detect someone going overboard.

Peep holes in all cabin doors

Required to have Anti-viral drugs onbaord incase of Sexual Assualt

Medical Staff must be trained to hand secual assualt cases (take evidence - rape kit)

Report all crime to FBI

Have atleast one employee trained in crime scene investigation - preserving evidence

Allow victim of sexual assualt free use of phone/internet to call police/lawyer/rape hotline.

 

Anybody come across this.

 

here is a link to the story

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/3315-102309-house-passes-matsui-cruise-safety-legislation-.html

 

I searched the House of Rep. site and found the bill and read it to see some of the other requirements not mentioned in the story.

[celle]

Hey Everyone,

 

I came across this today and havent seen this mentioned on cruise critic. The intentions seem good. Not sure how this will affect the industry with all the requirements put on them. Then again, maybe it would have no affect since its possible the industry meets most of the requirements already. Here a few of the requirements. Like with just about every law some parts are good some parts may not be good.

 

Video Cameras to record crimes and detect someone going overboard.

Peep holes in all cabin doors

Required to have Anti-viral drugs onbaord incase of Sexual Assualt

Medical Staff must be trained to hand secual assualt cases (take evidence - rape kit)

Report all crime to FBI

Have atleast one employee trained in crime scene investigation - preserving evidence

Allow victim of sexual assualt free use of phone/internet to call police/lawyer/rape hotline.

 

Anybody come across this.

 

here is a link to the story

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/3315-102309-house-passes-matsui-cruise-safety-legislation-.html

 

I searched the House of Rep. site and found the bill and read it to see some of the other requirements not mentioned in the story.

 

I wonder how this legislation could be applied to a ship registerd in a non-US country and sailing outside US territorial waters. The FBI has no jurisdiction here and would be completely irrelevant if the passenger was not a US citizen.

 

 

For example, a ship registerd in Malta and cruising the Norwegian Fjords.

 

It's a typical over-reaction to an occurrence that happens very rarely on cruise ships.

 

And no-one had better put peep holes in the door of any cabin I am using!

Ah! I've just found another use for duck tape! :D

[cb at sea]

We've always had a peep-hole in our door (looking out, of course!) (and, if it looked in, a band-aid could cover the hole---don't lug duct-tape!)

[djneph]

I wonder how this legislation could be applied to a ship registerd in a non-US country and sailing outside US territorial waters. The FBI has no jurisdiction here and would be completely irrelevant if the passenger was not a US citizen.

 

 

For example, a ship registerd in Malta and cruising the Norwegian Fjords.

 

It's a typical over-reaction to an occurrence that happens very rarely on cruise ships.

 

And no-one had better put peep holes in the door of any cabin I am using!

Ah! I've just found another use for duck tape! :D

 

From reading the bill it says it applies to foriegn flag vessels who accept American Citizens as passengers. It also says that once it becomes effective a ship that does not comply and has atleast one US Citizen onboard will be denied entrance to a US Port.

[jasmith52]

Is this the law now ? Or is it a proposed law ?

[bionicman97]

. . .Have at least one employee trained in crime scene investigation - preserving evidence. . .

 

Awesome!! Horatio Caine at Sea

"The verdict is in Frank (Sunglasses come off), but the jury is out." :cool:

[djneph]

Is this the law now ? Or is it a proposed law ?

 

The Bill has passed the House of Rep and is off to the Senate for vote.

[joan_al]

The Bill has passed the House of Rep and is off to the Senate for vote.

Deary that bill don't mean didley squat unless the vessel is document in this country. Spent 4 years in the U.S.C.G. as a boarding office. The only law is maritime law. So she can get passed all the bills she want's and they are worthless.

 

Just remember all the rights and protection you have in this country are lost once you enter international waters.

[beastiemom]

Deary that bill don't mean didley squat unless the vessel is document in this country. Spent 4 years in the U.S.C.G. as a boarding office. The only law is maritime law. So she can get passed all the bills she want's and they are worthless.

 

Just remember all the rights and protection you have in this country are lost once you enter international waters.

 

While technically you may be correct, I imagine they anticipate it working similar to making the drinking age 21. The federal government doesn't have the power to make the states raise the minimum age (or lower the BAC to .08), but they have the ability to withhold federal funding for highways unless the state complies. Every state now has a minimum drinking age of 21 and a BAC of .08 (I think Minnesota was one of the last holdouts).

 

Looking at the language of the bill, they will not allow ships to dock in the US if they don't comply with the regulation. That means, for example, and RCCI ship that does not meet these requirements will not be able to dock in Florida, California, Texas, Alaska, etc. If they want to dock (and believe me, they do) they will have to comply.

[joan_al]

While technically you may be correct, I imagine they anticipate it working similar to making the drinking age 21. The federal government doesn't have the power to make the states raise the minimum age (or lower the BAC to .08), but they have the ability to withhold federal funding for highways unless the state complies. Every state now has a minimum drinking age of 21 and a BAC of .08 (I think Minnesota was one of the last holdouts).

 

Looking at the language of the bill, they will not allow ships to dock in the US if they don't comply with the regulation. That means, for example, and RCCI ship that does not meet these requirements will not be able to dock in Florida, California, Texas, Alaska, etc. If they want to dock (and believe me, they do) they will have to comply.

If the port is run by the state and is not a federal port the state will allow the ship to dock. State law supersedes Federal law. She will have to get bills passed on the state level.

What do you think will happen if the lines say they won't dock. I see the bills getting dumped.

[beastiemom]

If the port is run by the state and is not a federal port the state will allow the ship to dock. State law supersedes Federal law. She will have to get bills passed on the state level.

What do you think will happen if the lines say they won't dock. I see the bills getting dumped.

 

You are right if the dock is controlled by the state, the state may ignore the federal law. I don't know, however, who controls the ports. I assumed it was the federal government, but I very well could be wrong. And you are right that the cruiselines could certainly refuse to dock in the US, but my guess is the cost of complying with the bill would far FAR less than being unable to dock at US ports.

[beastiemom]

I wonder how this legislation could be applied to a ship registerd in a non-US country and sailing outside US territorial waters. The FBI has no jurisdiction here and would be completely irrelevant if the passenger was not a US citizen.

 

 

For example, a ship registerd in Malta and cruising the Norwegian Fjords.

 

It's a typical over-reaction to an occurrence that happens very rarely on cruise ships.

 

And no-one had better put peep holes in the door of any cabin I am using!

Ah! I've just found another use for duck tape! :D

 

I think the peep holes are for YOUR protection. If someone knocks on your door, you can see who it is before you open it.

[tnt10]

Does anyone really object to any of the items mentioned? I mean really?

I don't understand how anyone could object to things that are set to protect you and increase safety.

Would you also prefer to get rid of the life boats because they obscure some views? :rolleyes:

Happy Cruising,

TnT

[beastiemom]

Does anyone really object to any of the items mentioned? I mean really?

I don't understand how anyone could object to things that are set to protect you and increase safety.

Would you also prefer to get rid of the life boats because they obscure some views? :rolleyes:

Happy Cruising,

TnT

 

EXACTLY! In the article it said that Rep. Matsui has been working on this for 2 1/2 years. I am sure that she has made sure that whatever law is passed can be enforced. It was overwhelming passed in the House-which is saying something these days.

 

I think this is a long overdue bill. I would suggest to those that say the problem incidents are few and far between is that because there is no mandatory reporting, and given the low reporting of sexual assaults in "normal" circumstances, I believe we have no idea how pervasive this problem is. Certainly no cruise line is going to disclose it unless they have to. I don't think there is anything that permits a civil action against the ship, but at least this increases the chances of a successful prosecution against the perpetrators as well as much need health protection for any woman (or man) that is victimized.

[coxswain]

I wonder how this legislation could be applied to a ship registerd in a non-US country and sailing outside US territorial waters. The FBI has no jurisdiction here and would be completely irrelevant if the passenger was not a US citizen.

 

 

For example, a ship registerd in Malta and cruising the Norwegian Fjords.

 

It's a typical over-reaction to an occurrence that happens very rarely on cruise ships.

 

And no-one had better put peep holes in the door of any cabin I am using!

Ah! I've just found another use for duck tape! :D

 

 

 

I'm not sure were here is !!

 

 

But most countries have a U.S Embassy with FBI staff in them and they would be free to board the ship in port and i know that has happened before !!

 

 

 

 

 

jj.......

[temple1]

And no-one had better put peep holes in the door of any cabin I am using!

Ah! I've just found another use for duck tape! :D

 

I think you're joking, but I think most ships have peep holes in the doors now.

 

If the port is run by the state and is not a federal port the state will allow the ship to dock. State law supersedes Federal law. She will have to get bills passed on the state level.

What do you think will happen if the lines say they won't dock. I see the bills getting dumped.

 

I don't see any state not agreeing to apply the law if it is passed -- which state's Attorney General (especially if it is an elected office) is going to be "soft on crime" in this day and age?

[Cuizer2]

If the port is run by the state and is not a federal port the state will allow the ship to dock. State law supersedes Federal law. She will have to get bills passed on the state level.

What do you think will happen if the lines say they won't dock. I see the bills getting dumped.

 

Apparently you have not heard of the Coast Guard. The US can deny the ship entry into its coastal waters. It is this reason that the cruise lines have complied with the US laws, including ADA, Coast Guard inspections, muster drills, dumping of sewage, dumping of trash, reporting of illnesses, CDC inspections ...

[lgeisz]

If the cruise line industry wants to play hard ball they refuse to dock in US ports and lets see how the states that they dock in deal with the loss of revenue... I can understand the want of some to protect US citizens but I believe some of the requirements are foolish... A trained CSI on all ships Thinks of the cost of training for this and the logistical nightmare of maintaining accreditation let alone finding qualified candidates...

 

As for the reporting to the FBI as some have said they have no jurisdiction in international waters...

 

Rape kit qualified medical staff again nice notion but again this would limit the number of candidates that the ship could pull from to staff...

 

I feel some of this is unreasonable posturing and will end up costing the passengers in the end (either in cost or lost cruise lines doing business in US ports)...

 

Common sense should rule not common hysteria...

[lcguy]

If the cruise line industry wants to play hard ball they refuse to dock in US ports and lets see how the states that they dock in deal with the loss of revenue... I can understand the want of some to protect US citizens but I believe some of the requirements are foolish... A trained CSI on all ships Thinks of the cost of training for this and the logistical nightmare of maintaining accreditation let alone finding qualified candidates...

 

As for the reporting to the FBI as some have said they have no jurisdiction in international waters...

 

Rape kit qualified medical staff again nice notion but again this would limit the number of candidates that the ship could pull from to staff...

 

I feel some of this is unreasonable posturing and will end up costing the passengers in the end (either in cost or lost cruise lines doing business in US ports)...

 

Common sense should rule not common hysteria...

Excellent post. The vigor at which the cruise lines are lobbying against this bill would be indicative of their opposition. Doesn't seem like this bill would truly have much teeth.

[Cuizer2]

Excellent post. The vigor at which the cruise lines are lobbying against this bill would be indicative of their opposition. Doesn't seem like this bill would truly have much teeth.

 

If the law could not be enforced, then why would the cruise lines care? The reason the cruise lines care is that the law can be enforced by simply denying the ship entry to the US ports.

 

By the way, reporting crimes to the FBI is already a requirement which grew out of the Smith incident.

[lcguy]

If the law could not be enforced, then why would the cruise lines care? The reason the cruise lines care is that the law can be enforced by simply denying the ship entry to the US ports.

My point exactly. My statement could be looked at as a question. Precisely, to what extent are the cruise lines lobbying against this bill? If it's passed the house and moving to the senate, it doesn't seem like the lines are vigorously opposing it. In fact, the cruise industry has ceased opposition to this bill. Why did it? :confused: If it had extreme implications, financial and otherwise, the industry would be vehemently opposing this piece of legislation.

 

My own viewpoint- leave it to a legislator from CA and John Kerry to place more regulation and increase costs to industry. :confused:

[temple1]

 

My own viewpoint- leave it to a legislator from CA and John Kerry to place more regulation and increase costs to industry. :confused:

 

Exactly, Leave it to a CA legislator and Senator Kerry to be more concerned with passenger welfare and safety than the cruise ships bottom line.

 

I don't see where the huge burdon is. Even the smallest of small town hospitals the emergency room staff is trained in how to perform a rape kit. You don't think the nurses and Doctors contracted by the cruiselines could perform the task?

 

The cruise ship already has its own police departments. They just need to make sure the head of security on each ship has the basic training. They aren't asking them to run DNA tests or examine evidence. Primarily - securing the crime scene which has not always happened in the past.

[lcguy]

Exactly, Leave it to a CA legislator and Senator Kerry to be more concerned with passenger welfare and safety than the cruise ships bottom line.

 

I don't see where the huge burdon is.

I see where the huge burden is... it's on you and me. The cruise ships' bottom line won't suffer, they'll just increase fares. Regardless of what some people think, nothing in this world is free. Someone has to pay for it. :rolleyes:

 

I find it ironic that the cruise industry abandoned lobbying against this legislation back in July.

[G'ma]

You are right if the dock is controlled by the state, the state may ignore the federal law. I don't know, however, who controls the ports. I assumed it was the federal government, but I very well could be wrong. And you are right that the cruiselines could certainly refuse to dock in the US, but my guess is the cost of complying with the bill would far FAR less than being unable to dock at US ports.

 

State laws cannot preempt Federal law......

[pm]

I would be willing to pay a few dollars more if they implemented these measures.

 

I am a rape crisis counselor and Temple1 is right, the doctors or nurses on the ship could be easily trained to do a forensic exam. The exam provides the survivor with immediate medical treatment for injuries and can provide preventive medicine for tetanus, sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy, etc.

 

lcguy, if it was your daughter, sister, mother, wife, friend, etc., wouldn't you want them to have help available immediately?