Brits don't like to tip

[dleafy]

I absolutely "love" talking about this topic. Let me give you my background first: I am an American, second generation European. I have traveled extensively in Europe. I understand the culture on both sides of the pond.

 

To me, tipping in restaurants is not "tipping" in the US, its a mandatory 15% service charge. I treat it as such and NEVER stiff wait staff. I guess if a waiter/waitress spit in my food (in front of me) I would maybe stiff them... I've gotten horrible service in the past, but still felt that nagging guilt that I must tip, because I KNOW that they only get paid $2 per hour (I was a waitress for 10 years in high school/college). However, I don't gerenally tip more than 15% except at breakfast, cheap restaurants, or if I don't order liquor. I think basing the tip on the total bill is really lame, because its more work to keep a bottomless cup of coffee filled, than to serve 2 $10 martinies... but I digress.

 

Tipping in America is OUT OF CONTROL. I have friends that tip UPS delivery guys, the mailman, etc... I think its funny when people tip the guy who drives the van from the airport parking lot to the terminal... are you kidding me? This guy is getting paid an hourly wage to drive me for a total of 1 minute to the terminal, now I have to give him 2 bucks?

 

I don't beleive that service in America (or on Cruise Ships) will diminish greatly if we included service in our food bills. Let me give you an example... the service in American retail establishments (Macy's, Kohl's, Airline call centers etc...) is MUCH better than comparable service in western European countries I've visited. Why? I think its cultural, not because of tips (we don't tip at Macy's Thank Goodness!). In the States there is a culture of excellent service, in some European countries (especially France), not so much. its has NOTHING to do with tips. :cool:

 

European friends that come to the States have a hard time understanding the whole tipping thing here... They think that the wait staff is getting paid a living wage (a fair assumption) and the tips are for above and beyond. When I explain to them that they will get virtually no income if we don't tip, then they begin to understand the system. I think the system is lacking.

 

Do Americans have extremely high expectations from their wait staff? YES, over the top I think. We really do expect wait staff to fawn all over us (generalizing here). As a waitress, I was delighted to make 15% and never had expecations for more. That was 15 years ago... the expecations are higher now. I love it when you get dirtly looks from the airport luggage guys when you refuse their help at the airport (I carry my own bags after one time getting scowled at for only giving that guy $5 bucks for 2 minutes of work). :rolleyes:

 

Don't get me started with the "turning over the tables comment". I am SO tired of wait staff coming over 50 times to check to see if I need anything, or if I can "wrap that up for you" when I'm still eating: reads, "get the hell out of my restaurant, I need to serve more people". This happens ALOT.

 

Sorry for the very long post... my vote, include the service charge on EVERYTHING, cruise and otherwise. Pay people a living wage (like you do the people in stores) and tip them for exceptional service. :o

 

 

Well written, unbiased view.

 

Cheers

 

davy!!!

[luckyprincess]

I think a service charge/nominal tip is a much easier system, however, prices in restaurants and for cruises would go up and you'd have lots of complaining initially. Oh, I can just imagine the outrage. :rolleyes:

 

Also you would have to pay a higher wage, imo, for waitstaff because it's a much harder, dirtier job than working in Macy's, for example. Why be a waiter for minimum wage when so many other jobs would pay the same and are relatively easier?

 

Great point, Marci! Also, because of the system in place now, there are servers that make pretty decent money - especially high end places (I always have to add that so someone doesn't mention the single waitress working at a 10 seat diner in East Podunk) sure as heck aren't going to now work for minimum wage! Why make $8 an hour when you were making $15 or $16? Doesn't make sense. I never would have worked somewhere with tips included at a minimum wage rate as a server. It's just not a job that you make minimum wage money at unless, as I said, you are in an economically challenged place, a not busy restaurant or aren't very good at it! lol:p - and I think that's what stumps visitors that aren't used to our system. Yes, in their countries, the servers make minimum wage and they consider that a living wage. But here, our servers usually make more than minimum wage using this system or at least have the opportunity to. I have also seen some posts that make this sound like a bad thing so maybe its just a culture shock that a server can make more than a shop girl in their country? And it almost seems as though good service like we can have here is misunderstood as 'fawning' in other countries. You may think the server is trying to shoo you out, but if you are eating at a chain, they have rules that you must bring out a full drink when the diners drink gets half full, they must come over 60 seconds after getting your food to ask how it is, they then have to come over at timed intervals, they have to give you their name, say goodbye Mr. XXX from reading your credit card when you leave - lots of silly stuff like that. They may not like it but as with most companies, corporate is usually out of touch with what the customer actually wants and the employee gets caught in the middle...

[navigator0709]

Like I said before, they system can start to change by automatically adding in the 15% instead of paying the servers "minimum wage". Like everyone has said the 15% is REQUIRED anyway, or else the server makes zero money. If everyone knew the score (15% auto service charge to the end of the bill) then there would be no confusion.

 

In regards to cruising, the gratuities need to be automatically added to the bill also... raise the rates, add it in as at the end (like they do the taxes and port charges), whatever way you want to slice it. It is REQUIRED to pay service staff to work, they are not out there doing community service. If people choose to give them something extra, so be it. Its not fair that all of us from this board always pay our gratuities on cruises and some people don't.

 

Regarding shop girls vs. wait staff... I was just using the shop girl at Macy's as an example. Fill in the customer service rep of your choice here... Airline reps, receptionists at salons, secretaries etc... everyone gets paid a wage for their work based on market conditons and local economy. Why should servers be any different. Its completely subjective to be comparing the "hard work" of servers vs. the "hard work" of customer service reps (who get screamed at a lot and have to sign out to go the bathroom). High end restaurant servers will always make more because the bill is always higher (weather that is deserved vs. the local diner server, is another question I won't get into).

 

I am an American and I partake in the system, but I think it doesn't work. The culture of rushing people out of restaurants has to stop, I doesn't matter if its "corporate" restaurant policy or the server that wants to do the rushing.

[marci22]

I actually have worked at Macy's, and at many different restaurants.

 

Being a server is much harder, much dirtier, and requires more physical strength than working behind a counter at a department store. I still sometimes have dreams that I have to get something to a table and I am not able to.

 

If you paid the same wages, you'd still get people to work, but the better ones would go wherever the money was.

[luckyprincess]

Like I said before, they system can start to change by automatically adding in the 15% instead of paying the servers "minimum wage". Like everyone has said the 15% is REQUIRED anyway, or else the server makes zero money. If everyone knew the score (15% auto service charge to the end of the bill) then there would be no confusion.

 

In regards to cruising, the gratuities need to be automatically added to the bill also... raise the rates, add it in as at the end (like they do the taxes and port charges), whatever way you want to slice it. It is REQUIRED to pay service staff to work, they are not out there doing community service. If people choose to give them something extra, so be it. Its not fair that all of us from this board always pay our gratuities on cruises and some people don't.

 

Regarding shop girls vs. wait staff... I was just using the shop girl at Macy's as an example. Fill in the customer service rep of your choice here... Airline reps, receptionists at salons, secretaries etc... everyone gets paid a wage for their work based on market conditons and local economy. Why should servers be any different. Its completely subjective to be comparing the "hard work" of servers vs. the "hard work" of customer service reps (who get screamed at a lot and have to sign out to go the bathroom). High end restaurant servers will always make more because the bill is always higher (weather that is deserved vs. the local diner server, is another question I won't get into).

 

I am an American and I partake in the system, but I think it doesn't work. The culture of rushing people out of restaurants has to stop, I doesn't matter if its "corporate" restaurant policy or the server that wants to do the rushing.

I understand a lot of your points for sure. I've done customer service and you are right, you are screamed at for that too - all hospitality, customer service, anything working with public can be pretty scary!:eek: I still think I prefer lower prices and having the diner in direct control of payment for the service portion of dining, but to each his/her own. In my experience, in Miami Beach, for instance the 18% grat is added in at most every restaurant there due to having so many visitors from out of country that may have different customs for payment for dining. The service is hideous in most of those places. You get your menu after 5 minutes, the come by to take your order ten minutes later, drinks sit empty, no personality, check isn't dropped with dessert - I hate it. Although, for someone that doesn't want to be rushed, it's probably ideal. I suppose it is what you are expecting when you dine out. When I worked at a cheap lunch place in NYC they had a 'in and out in 30 minutes or its free' promotion because thats what people there want - get in, order, get food, pay, go back to work. A lot of people are in a rush, so they don't want to linger. My bf gets pissed when his check isn't dropped off with the coffee and dessert, me not so much. So I think it's all just relative. I do think the system works, as being a server and a diner.:)

I will say on the cruise, all were smiling and friendly but I didn't get 'great' service. I got exactly what I paid for, good service - that's not a complaint by any means but just illustrates that just because I'm American and was a server doesn't mean I just toss tips around - I base them directly on service unless I'm in another culture and then I'll follow that. I do think people have strong opinions on it because they base their feelings on what they do in their country, or what they know or are used to. I just try to follow guidelines and not get into trouble!!:D

[navigator0709]

Hi Lucky,

 

You said:

"I will say on the cruise, all were smiling and friendly but I didn't get 'great' service. I got exactly what I paid for, good service I got exactly what I paid for, good service - that's not a complaint by any means but just illustrates that just because I'm American and was a server doesn't mean I just toss tips around - I base them directly on service unless I'm in another culture and then I'll follow that."

 

So does that mean that if you had gotten OK service (just below good, I guess) you would have tipped the cruise staff less than 15%? I know I wouldn't. In my opinion, 15% gets you OK service and up. Like I said before, unless they were really really horrible, I wouldn't stiff them or cut the tip much because it means they are not getting paid.

 

As an aside, curious to know what constitutes 'great' vs. 'good'. To me, good is they don't make you wait for a long time for menus and drinks once seated, they know the specials and can answer questions about the food, bring out your food nice and hot, and don't bother you 100 times during your mean or to pay for the check. That is my expecation for 15% tip. However, if they failed in any of these things, I'd still give them 15% :)

[BMT]

Just come off a cruise and a senior member of wait staff let slip that yes, there is a minimum earnings guarantee by the cruise line.

 

And a server listened in to a conversation involving a British couple with two children who were taken aback about the full tips for the children. The server said that he and his colleagues were very sympathetic, as the families were paying so much more than for the Caribbean cruises. No-one can quite understand why the huge price difference.

 

I, for one, am relieved that there is a minimum wage guarantee. We were at a table for 8 - only 4 of us turned up on the last night. The other two couples did nothing but complain when they did turn up and I am almost sure that they did not pre-tip. And THEY were not Brits, but the four or us who DID turn up and tip, WERE Brits. So there:D:D

[marci22]

Just come off a cruise and a senior member of wait staff let slip that yes, there is a minimum earnings guarantee by the cruise line.

 

And a server listened in to a conversation involving a British couple with two children who were taken aback about the full tips for the children. The server said that he and his colleagues were very sympathetic, as the families were paying so much more than for the Caribbean cruises. No-one can quite understand why the huge price difference.

 

I, for one, am relieved that there is a minimum wage guarantee. We were at a table for 8 - only 4 of us turned up on the last night. The other two couples did nothing but complain when they did turn up and I am almost sure that they did not pre-tip. And THEY were not Brits, but the four or us who DID turn up and tip, WERE Brits. So there:D:D

 

So does that mean we don't have to tip? That will save me some dollars!

 

I assume you were on a non-Caribbean cruise? So then the servers do not expect full tips? More savings!

 

What point are you trying to make because I really do want to understand. If there is a minimum wage guarantee and the servers don't really expect full tips, why the hell am I tipping?

[bluegirlum]

Just come off a cruise and a senior member of wait staff let slip that yes, there is a minimum earnings guarantee by the cruise line.

 

And a server listened in to a conversation involving a British couple with two children who were taken aback about the full tips for the children. The server said that he and his colleagues were very sympathetic, as the families were paying so much more than for the Caribbean cruises. No-one can quite understand why the huge price difference.

 

I don't understand why children shouldn't have to pay full tips. Don't they get their food served to them too? Also, why should you not have to tip if you pay more for your vacation than someone from another country? You chose to go on that cruise, knowing it was more expensive.

I, for one, am relieved that there is a minimum wage guarantee. We were at a table for 8 - only 4 of us turned up on the last night. The other two couples did nothing but complain when they did turn up and I am almost sure that they did not pre-tip. And THEY were not Brits, but the four or us who DID turn up and tip, WERE Brits. So there:D:D

 

Again, just because someone doesn't turn up on the last night doesn't mean they don't tip. Unless you know for sure because they told you or you saw it. We rarely go to the MDR on the last night and we always tip.

[BMT]

Again, just because someone doesn't turn up on the last night doesn't mean they don't tip. Unless you know for sure because they told you or you saw it. We rarely go to the MDR on the last night and we always tip.

 

I said 'almost' sure - I do remember a brief discussion and I am pretty sure only the other British couple had pre-paid. I gave envelopes.

 

The server butted in because he felt it unfair that the Brits were paying so much more than in the Caribbean and the cruises were thus costing families a truly extortionate amount and they were then expected to add large tips on top. The travel agents in the UK don't make the tipping thingy very clear apparently. He didn't say he didn't want or need the tips - just that he understood the situation and was sympathetic towards families.

 

Which is more than I can say for many people on here. :D:D

 

Of course it doesn't mean that we shouldn't tip - I am sure that the guaranteed amount is quite low. And may only apply in countries without the US tipping culture.

 

Anyway, whatever the situation, we have been on many Caribbean cruises and people from the US haven't turned up on the last night and hadn't pre-paid. This is so often a topic of conversation at the table of course.:eek:. I believe that the UK Managing Director may be regretting his remarks.

 

Isn't there a cruiseline which doesn't charge for children at all, never mind tips?

[bluegirlum]

I said 'almost' sure - I do remember a brief discussion and I am pretty sure only the other British couple had pre-paid. I gave envelopes.

 

The server butted in because he felt it unfair that the Brits were paying so much more than in the Caribbean and the cruises were thus costing families a truly extortionate amount and they were then expected to add large tips on top. The travel agents in the UK don't make the tipping thingy very clear apparently. He didn't say he didn't want or need the tips - just that he understood the situation and was sympathetic towards families.

 

Which is more than I can say for many people on here. :D:D

 

Of course it doesn't mean that we shouldn't tip - I am sure that the guaranteed amount is quite low. And may only apply in countries without the US tipping culture.

 

Anyway, whatever the situation, we have been on many Caribbean cruises and people from the US haven't turned up on the last night and hadn't pre-paid. This is so often a topic of conversation at the table of course.:eek:. I believe that the UK Managing Director may be regretting his remarks.

 

Isn't there a cruiseline which doesn't charge for children at all, never mind tips?

 

Hey, now, I love kids. As long as they aren't mine! :eek: (Just kidding). I just don't get why they shouldn't have to pay the same amount in tips. I understand their discounts on other things, believe me.

 

I don't know anything about a ship not charging children, but that might be a good option for some people.

 

I think if the service charge were added, it would all even out because the money I budget for tips is just paid up front. That's crappy that the TAs don't explain that better in the UK, but I think it's also caveat emptor. It's up to me to do the research and find out the norms of anywhere that I travel.

[BMT]

Hey, now, I love kids. As long as they aren't mine! :eek: (Just kidding). I just don't get why they shouldn't have to pay the same amount in tips. I understand their discounts on other things, believe me.

 

I don't know anything about a ship not charging children, but that might be a good option for some people.

 

I think if the service charge were added, it would all even out because the money I budget for tips is just paid up front. That's crappy that the TAs don't explain that better in the UK, but I think it's also caveat emptor. It's up to me to do the research and find out the norms of anywhere that I travel.

 

Well, they are paying so much - serious money - that they are incredulous that more is required. Its the cruise lines fault - if they are charging so much more in Europe, they should include the tips.

 

Also, if they are sharing a room with parents, there is still only one bathroom to clean. We can debate this topic 'till Kingdom come - the cruiselines will do what suits them:D:D

[marci22]

They are paying more to cruise in Europe? Because I paid more to cruise in Europe too. For a 12 night cruise in Europe our cruise fare only was about 12k, for a Caribbean 13 night I had booked, the cruise fare only was about 7k. Is that what they mean by a huge price difference?

[Able Seaman H]

One solution is to cruise with someone like Seabourn or Silverseas. No tips are required or expected. And before you all jump in on the price issue we have just come back off Explorer of the seas were Alexa, the future cruise person quoted us a price for Oasis in July which allowed us to use either of the above cruise lines for no extra money. I had assumed they would be double the price of RCCL. They aren`t, and not only do you get all your drinks thrown in including champers and decent plonk you also get great service and retain your dignity without having to elbow people out of the way to get at food in the Windjammer.

 

We were made perfectly clear of our responsibilities to pay RCCL`s staff wages via tips at the end of our cruise. We have done a lot of cruises with RCCL. In essence a waiter is paid around $50 a month but guaranteed just over $1,000 as a minimum should tips not be forthcoming (or they are stationed in the Jammer). The waiter has a target amount of a few dollars per person per day in wine sales and that nets them a large proportion of the wine service charge. The reality is that RCCL should never have to honour that $1,000 guarantee because at $3.50 per person per day (pre-paid gratuities), 15 people generate just over $50 per day, $350 per week, $1,500 per month. Wine sales add more depending on how thirsty your guests are. Average wine prices are $35-40 upwards plus 15%. Champagne $70 upwards plus 15%.

 

I think as regular cruisers we all know the rules. Tipping may have come as something of a shock to the many first time caddy shackers now invading the ships ;)

 

H.

[jackdiamond]

What are "champers" and "plonk"?

[Able Seaman H]

Champagne and wine.

 

Champagne is a sparkling white wine made exclusively in the Reims area of France from the Pinot Noir grape. Popular brands include Moet & Chandon, Bollinger, Dom Perignon, Krug, Laurent-Perrier (not to be confused with the fizzy water), Mumm, Tattinger, Veuve Clicquot, Perrier Jouet (also not to be confused with the fizzy water people) and for the rappers amongst you Louis Roederer A.K.A Cristal, (although Jay-Z might be pushing to re-align the musical movement`s patronage to another brand.

 

Brands produced outside the champagne region of France such as California`s Korbel brand are actually not Champagne but méthode champenoise Sparkling wine.

 

Wine can come from pretty much anywhere and it comes in white, red or Rose (blush) varieties. Popular in Roman times it is reported to have been around almost as long as Coca-Cola :)

 

America and England. Two nations divided by a common language ;)

 

If you don`t win a bottle at the next wine tasting with that lot then there`s no justice in the world. I assume RCCL still give away a bottle at the wine tasting. Since they took it out of our Crown and Anchor voucher booklets recently I can`t bring myself to fork out the $9.95 :)

 

H.

[bluegirlum]

Well, they are paying so much - serious money - that they are incredulous that more is required. Its the cruise lines fault - if they are charging so much more in Europe, they should include the tips.

 

Also, if they are sharing a room with parents, there is still only one bathroom to clean. We can debate this topic 'till Kingdom come - the cruiselines will do what suits them:D:D

 

You're right. They will.

 

Maybe someone posted on here, but do we know why there is such a disparity in cost? Is it just Europe? How about Australia?

[John Henry on CC]

Champagne and wine.

 

Champagne is a sparkling white wine made exclusively in the Reims area of France from the Pinot Noir grape. Popular brands include Moet & Chandon, Bollinger, Dom Perignon, Krug, Laurent-Perrier (not to be confused with the fizzy water), Mumm, Tattinger, Veuve Clicquot, Perrier Jouet (also not to be confused with the fizzy water people) and for the rappers amongst you Louis Roederer A.K.A Cristal, (although Jay-Z might be pushing to re-align the musical movement`s patronage to another brand.

 

Brands produced outside the champagne region of France such as California`s Korbel brand are actually not Champagne but méthode champenoise Sparkling wine.

 

Wine can come from pretty much anywhere and it comes in white, red or Rose (blush) varieties. Popular in Roman times it is reported to have been around almost as long as Coca-Cola :)

 

America and England. Two nations divided by a common language ;)

 

If you don`t win a bottle at the next wine tasting with that lot then there`s no justice in the world. I assume RCCL still give away a bottle at the wine tasting. Since they took it out of our Crown and Anchor voucher booklets recently I can`t bring myself to fork out the $9.95 :)

 

H.

I have been to many a wine-tasting on RC, and no bottle of wine has ever been given away in my presence.

[The_Big_M]

You're right. They will.

 

Maybe someone posted on here, but do we know why there is such a disparity in cost? Is it just Europe? How about Australia?

 

No, same boat here (if you'll pardon the pun). For the most part local pricing is much higher for the same cruise with RCL than that in the US, though some individual exceptions apply.

[Able Seaman H]

Can anyone name the 3 most common types of grape used to make wine in France?

 

Chardonnay, Pinot (Noir & Meunier), Sauvignon Blanc are the answers from memory and the person who called out correctly got a bottle of something nice.

 

You also used to get a rather embarassing plastic testevin, a sort of shallow cup with divots in the bottom.

 

Thankfully they now use a glass :)

 

H.

[BMT]

 

I think as regular cruisers we all know the rules. Tipping may have come as something of a shock to the many first time caddy shackers now invading the ships ;)

 

H.

 

What is a caddy shacker? Just come off a Med cruise where a Canadian referred to the other passengers as Eurotrash. Naturally, I took exception to this!! Is it a similar description?

[Oxymoron]

What is a caddy shacker?

Isn't that the nickname for Tigers harem?

[Able Seaman H]

The more casual cruiser. Webbed feet and parents being related optional. They can often be heard asking for woodland critters at the windjammer :)

 

I`m not sure about carrying round a gallon slurpee jug filled from complimentary beverages, that could just be an Anglo / American difference and all part of the rich cultural diversity on board. One of the reasons I love cruising so much.

 

H :)

[celle]

No, same boat here (if you'll pardon the pun). For the most part local pricing is much higher for the same cruise with RCL than that in the US, though some individual exceptions apply.

 

And that would be true for passengers from New Zealand, too. In addition, we can never benefit from the price drops/ military discounts/ state residency discounts that US cruisers can claim.

[mika6617]

To start with, the word "tip" is listed in English dictionaries as a "reward" or "gift" for services given. It says nothing about "wage supplement".

 

If I was an American I would be angry about this. Not about people not tipping, but about the need for the tip in the first place. You guys are being ripped off by the companies. The employees are being ripped off and the guests are being ripped off while the companies (cruise lines restaurants etc) are making money. They (the companies) should pay a fare wage and not rely on the customer to make up the difference. You should be mad as hell about this with the company, but instead I read time and time again about abuse to the non-tipping customer (or on here about a customer with the temerity to question the tipping process)

 

Why do you tip for service? If you go to hospital and a nurse brings you a drink of water do you tip them? If they bring you a bed pan, do you tip? How about at the lawyers office, do you tip the receptionist when she seats you in a waiting room and gives you a coffee, do you tip the lawyer for their advice? "Thanks for that Mr. Lawyer, here is your $1000 dollars for that letter you wrote and here is another $150 as a tip".

 

Wake up and start getting Mad as Hell at the companies that require you to tip because they pay rubbish wages. The tip-virus is spreading around the world, stop it now before it's to late.

 

I realise the above is almost a year old, but to be honest its right on the button. Bang on