Dawn's Adrift!

[smeyer418]

I had not been following this story, but when it was brought to my attention this was my very first thought. I travel by cruise ship in large part because I do not fly. I imagine there are many others in the same position since--as numerous friends and colleagues have pointed out to me--it is usually faster to fly to various places than to go by sea to those same places. Yet, many people choose to go by sea rather than fly.

 

There are no ferries between Puerto Rico and the mainland United States.

 

At the time of this incident there were three vessels that would be making the voyage from Puerto Rice to the mainland United States. The Costa Atlantica left Puerto Rico on Monday, 30 November, and after stops in St. Maarten, B.V.I., and Nassau, will arrive in Ft. Lauderdale on Saturday, 5 December. The Holland America Eurodam left Puerto Rico on Tuesday, 1 December, and after stops in St. Thomas and Half Moon Cays (Bahamas), will arrive in Ft. Lauderdale on Saturday, 5 December. The Carnival Liberty left Puerto Rico on Wednesday, 2 December, and after a stop in Grand Turk, will arrive in Miami on Saturday, 5 December. Since the Norwegian Dawn has been expecting to make its scheduled sailing on Friday, 4 December, from Miami, it would have been more time efficient for any air travel-adverse passengers to remain on board the Norwegian Dawn than to attempt to travel on any of the other three vessels scheduled to return to the mainland United States from Puerto Rico. Furthermore, there is the question of how much space was available on these other three vessels, plus transportation on any of those three vessels would have entailed a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886, 46 App. U.S.C. § 289, thereby subjecting the vessels to a $300 per passenger fine (presumably an amount that those other vessels would have expected NCL to pay).

 

I am curious to know how non-flying passengers were accommodated.

 

actually they can be accommodated on these ships without a PVSA violation as PR for these purposes is considered a nearby foreign port or there is an exemption still in effect from the Secretary of Transportation for PR to the Mainland. Since the Dawn was returning to its point of origin no PSVA violation either.

 

They would need a passport to travel from PR to Miami on a ship other than the Dawn as its not a closed loop trip and they wouldn't need it to fly from PR to Miami either.

 

There are in fact freighters than will accommodate guests from PR to Miami(the slow boats of course)....

 

the fact is that everyone made it home on the planes. Its a short flight(2 hours) and lot of Valium helps.

[Planer's Edge]

There really is nobody that you folks won't attack, is there?

 

It must be getting harder to spin things when there is actual video showing the conditions. This guy was on the ship - his opinion is worth so much more than all you that weren't.

 

Who is attacking him? I said I would like to ask him a few questions.

 

Yes, he was on the ship doing what? Gathering evidence so he can try to get something out of NCL. Did he not receive a 75% refund for about 25% bad cruise and also a 50% reduction on a future cruise. Yes, those 2 days were incredibly uncomfortable. But, I have heard way too many people commend NCL on their handling of this situation.

 

No spinning going on here by me. I saw the video with the "passed out" guy fiddling with his hat that someone handed to him. I saw no one from NCL assisting the person that was on the floor in front of the reception desk, except for the guy coming in with a wheelchair on the right. I saw exactly what the liberal news organization wanted me to see. NOT!!!!

 

Want to try again Simon?

 

PE

[AuntieBarb]

Additional videos:

http://cbs4.com/video/?id=87319@wfor.dayport.com

http://www.justnews.com/video/21762322/index.html

[Don Haynes]

I had not been following this story, but when it was brought to my attention this was my very first thought. I travel by cruise ship in large part because I do not fly. I imagine there are many others in the same position since--as numerous friends and colleagues have pointed out to me--it is usually faster to fly to various places than to go by sea to those same places. Yet, many people choose to go by sea rather than fly.

 

There are no ferries between Puerto Rico and the mainland United States.

 

At the time of this incident there were three vessels that would be making the voyage from Puerto Rice to the mainland United States. The Costa Atlantica left Puerto Rico on Monday, 30 November, and after stops in St. Maarten, B.V.I., and Nassau, will arrive in Ft. Lauderdale on Saturday, 5 December. The Holland America Eurodam left Puerto Rico on Tuesday, 1 December, and after stops in St. Thomas and Half Moon Cays (Bahamas), will arrive in Ft. Lauderdale on Saturday, 5 December. The Carnival Liberty left Puerto Rico on Wednesday, 2 December, and after a stop in Grand Turk, will arrive in Miami on Saturday, 5 December. Since the Norwegian Dawn has been expecting to make its scheduled sailing on Friday, 4 December, from Miami, it would have been more time efficient for any air travel-adverse passengers to remain on board the Norwegian Dawn than to attempt to travel on any of the other three vessels scheduled to return to the mainland United States from Puerto Rico. Furthermore, there is the question of how much space was available on these other three vessels, plus transportation on any of those three vessels would have entailed a violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886, 46 App. U.S.C. § 289, thereby subjecting the vessels to a $300 per passenger fine (presumably an amount that those other vessels would have expected NCL to pay).

 

I am curious to know how non-flying passengers were accommodated.

 

They are free to buy a boat if they won't fly, or lease a boat, or swim it...

 

Of course, this isn't the answer you wanted...

[Realdolby]

Well, today has easily been our most interesting cruise day. We are on the Dawn 9 day, and today was first of two consectuive sea days heading back to Miami.

 

The ship lost TOTAL electrical power, between about 9:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. Then, after about two hours of power and the captain picking up speed, we lost power again! They started restoring again pretty quickly, so we have most, but not all, services.

 

By TOTAL power, I mean total. No electric at all. No water. No toilet!! (the toilets were one of the last things to get going, yikes!).

 

During that time (and now), we had NO propulsion. The Dawn was simply drifting in the sea. I will tell you, it was an unsettling sight to see a couple coast guard helicopters circling the ship (although the Captain said several times it was precautionary). Fortunately, we are only 90 miles from Puerto Rico.

 

As I said, there were no toilets for a while. After they were up, I could hear a bunch of swooshes down the hall!

 

No a/c. That is one of the worst parts. We are in an AC suite up front, but with the ship not moving, we can't get a breeze going even with the doors propped open (yes, even at night!). A baby in the owners suite next door keeps crying (oh, wait, that has been all week!).

 

They cancelled all programs today (even with power, there is no A/C in the Stardust), with a make shift trivia game in the Spinnaker. The awesome accoustic guitar player (Tom Dion?) played at the pool.

 

I just called Anoop, the concierge, and he told me the specialty restaurants will be open tonight, but Aqua is closed. They are serving limited menu in Venetian, with the Garden Cafe and a pool side barbecue.

 

They have asked to conserve water, since without power they cannot make fresh water fast enough.

 

 

I talked with our steward, who has been on ships for about 19 years. He said once on the Norway they lost power, but they were in port, but never at sea. He said he was a little scared. There is only one room make up service today. None of the crew we talked to has been on board when losing power at sea. One person we talked to said he heard there was some sort of leak in the power room which shorted the system out.

 

The Captain gives updates every half hour. All in all, we think the crew id doing a great job trying to accommodate. We spent the day at the pool as planned, and had a great time anyway (after the toilets got up!). Most pax are being good natured about it, some are complaining (they probably want 6 free cruises compensation).

 

Well, that's my update for now. Gotta jump in for a SHORT shower!

 

Ya Mon,

Duff Man

 

 

It appears likely and because of total engine failure that the problem was "Software" this being the case then the main Computer did precisley what it was designed to do in shutting down the engines.A reversal of this procedure is complicated and never quick.In todays world such incidents are becoming regular not only to ships but also aircraft.But has to be remembered that passenger safety is paramount of importence and in this event NCL did a sterling job and certain that the comfort of passengers were good considering ther plight.

 

The reported levels of Compensation were generous in the least from the first and sucessful company to sail from Miami on mass cruising to the Carribean.Now come on and support the company they deserve that.

[Simon_B]

It appears likely and because of total engine failure that the problem was "Software" this being the case then the main Computer did precisley what it was designed to do in shutting down the engines.A reversal of this procedure is complicated and never quick.In todays world such incidents are becoming regular not only to ships but also aircraft.But has to be remembered that passenger safety is paramount of importence and in this event NCL did a sterling job and certain that the comfort of passengers were good considering ther plight.

 

The reported levels of Compensation were generous in the least from the first and sucessful company to sail from Miami on mass cruising to the Carribean.Now come on and support the company they deserve that.

 

Thanks NCL!

[Simon_B]

Who is attacking him? I said I would like to ask him a few questions.

 

Yes' date=' he was on the ship doing what? Gathering evidence so he can try to get something out of NCL. Did he not receive a 75% refund for about 25% bad cruise and also a 50% reduction on a future cruise. Yes, those 2 days were incredibly uncomfortable. But, I have heard way too many people commend NCL on their handling of this situation.[/color']

 

No spinning going on here by me. I saw the video with the "passed out" guy fiddling with his hat that someone handed to him. I saw no one from NCL assisting the person that was on the floor in front of the reception desk, except for the guy coming in with a wheelchair on the right. I saw exactly what the liberal news organization wanted me to see. NOT!!!!

 

Want to try again Simon?

 

PE

 

Now its a liberal news conspiracy??? You are desperate.

[Planer's Edge]

Now its a liberal news conspiracy??? You are desperate.

 

I answer one statement with no response from you other than another question. Who is the desperate one here. :confused:

 

Buh bye!!

 

PE

[MrLee]

Now its a liberal news conspiracy??? You are desperate.

 

Is it possible that there is anything on this planet that you don't criticize? Sheesh!

[sjbdtz]

Who is attacking him? I said I would like to ask him a few questions.

 

Yes' date=' he was on the ship doing what? Gathering evidence so he can try to get something out of NCL. Did he not receive a 75% refund for about 25% bad cruise and also a 50% reduction on a future cruise. Yes, those 2 days were incredibly uncomfortable. But, I have heard way too many people commend NCL on their handling of this situation.[/color']

 

No spinning going on here by me. I saw the video with the "passed out" guy fiddling with his hat that someone handed to him. I saw no one from NCL assisting the person that was on the floor in front of the reception desk, except for the guy coming in with a wheelchair on the right. I saw exactly what the liberal news organization wanted me to see. NOT!!!!

 

Want to try again Simon?

 

PE

 

Now its a liberal news conspiracy??? You are desperate.

 

 

Oh my. I find myself agreeing with Simon B. The sky MUST be falling. But seriously, PE..... the "liberal" news media?

 

This reeks of a "conservative" news media conspiracy. :rolleyes:

 

 

(Someone needs to Quote this....Planer's Edge has me on ignore, and can't see my posts unless I'm quoted....Simon? :) )

[Simon_B]

Is it possible that there is anything on this planet that you don't criticize? Sheesh!

 

You are right - I keep rising to the bait and that is my bad.

 

The real people to feel sorry for are those that had to go through this nightmare. As evidenced by the videos and their stories, it was very very bad - cruise from hell is probably too kind a description. Hopefully they cruise again.

[ddakrt]

You are right - I keep rising to the bait and that is my bad.

 

The real people to feel sorry for are those that had to go through this nightmare. As evidenced by the videos and their stories, it was very very bad - cruise from hell is probably too kind a description. Hopefully they cruise again.

 

So Simon, what do you have to say regarding the replies from people who were also on the ship and had positive things to say about the crew and how NCL handle the situation?

 

And you also saw the crew member with the wheelchair assisting the fallen passenger in the video right? I certainly did.

[Simon_B]

So Simon, what do you have to say regarding the replies from people who were also on the ship and had positive things to say about the crew and how NCL handle the situation?

 

And you also saw the crew member with the wheelchair assisting the fallen passenger in the video right? I certainly did.

 

If people had a good time, I think that is great. I was expressing sympathy for those that did not.

 

I've fallen for the trick of parsing messages, and in this case video, by people bent on supporting a point of view, and it is a no-win situation. So sure, someone was coming to help - actually, that is great, cause how truly awful would it be if they weren't.

[sillysailor 1955]

They are free to buy a boat if they won't fly, or lease a boat, or swim it...

 

Of course, this isn't the answer you wanted...

 

Wow that's a bit harsh don't you think?

[phopte]

Up front let me say that I wasn't there. In fact, I only started reading about page 14 and made it to the end. Having said that, and without a dog in this fight, I would like to comment on a couple of issues in general.

 

Regarding chartering air flights, Thanksgiving is *the* busiest time of the year in the US bar none. If indeed NCL was able to have some planes there as quick as they did, I find it amazing. As others noted, planes don't just sit around. Even more important is that flight crews have very strict limits on how many hours they can work before mandated crew rest. Have you ever been waiting on a delayed flight that then had to get a new crew because the original crew exceeded their allowable hours? It happens fairly frequently. So in addition to finding charter aircraft available, the charter companies have to make sure the crew stays legal. With preflight and flight time to PR, loading in PR and flight time back, I'm sure some of them were cutting it close as we have no idea where they originated from. Who knows, they may have had to come out of NY, Dallas, Atlanta, no telling. Accomidating 2,000+ people on short notice is no mean trick.

 

Regarding the failure, the attempted startup and restarts and no A/C, I have some degree of fascination about failures and read as much as I reasonably can. I know, I need to get a life! :D Anyway, most major failures are the result of a cascade of smaller events. Something little breaks and then something else and so on. To get back in service you have to fix all of the things that broke. If as someone else speculated in a post, it was a software faillure, then those can be even harder to find and fix. Outside of propulsion, I would imagine that refrigeration & A/C is the next heaviest power load on the ship. Since the ship was sailing at a reduced speed, it certainly suggests that there was indeed a power problem. I am sure they were trying to keep the refrigeration running to support such things as refrigerators and freezers for food storage. It sounds as though there was adequate food service so the kitchens were up and consuming power as well. If the choice is to refrigerate/keep frozen the food supply or have A/C throughout the ship, I'll be sheading as many clothes as I reasonably can! The same issue for water. These ships distill their own water and that takes a lot of, you guessed it, power.

 

Disaster planning is a complicated thing. I feel real sure NCL has a plan or their insurance company will not insure them. In our planning at work, we discoverd a critical function is the "flapper" (see medievial royalty for the origins). This is a designated person that does nothing but act as the go between separating the people that are trying to fix/recover from the problem from the people that need to know. It sounds as though NCL was lacking in this area.

 

Anyway, take this for what it is worth (not much!). As I said up front, I was not there but I have some familiarity with some of these issues. Personally, I like adventures such as this but I can understand those that don't. Both viewpoints are valid and unfortunately, both tend to be emotional for those involved.

 

Enjoy your evening!

[ddakrt]

If people had a good time, I think that is great. I was expressing sympathy for those that did not.

 

 

Your sympathy is noted, and for people who felt they went through a "nightmare", they (along with everyone else) had 78% of a great cruise and only paid 25% for it AND a 50% future credit. That is very good compensation from the cruiseline.

 

I've fallen for the trick of parsing messages, and in this case video, by people bent on supporting a point of view, and it is a no-win situation. So sure, someone was coming to help - actually, that is great, cause how truly awful would it be if they weren't.

Ya, it is the news that is hell bent on supporting their point of view, suggesting there were no help for the lady who fell when a helping crew member was RIGHT THERE in the very video they were broadcasting.

 

Seriously, the way you have been showing your "sympathy", I would have thought you were talking about people in the Superdome during Karina rather than people on a cruiseship without A/C.

[BIG_Steve]

Anyway, take this for what it is worth (not much!). As I said up front, I was not there but I have some familiarity with some of these issues. Personally, I like adventures such as this but I can understand those that don't. Both viewpoints are valid and unfortunately, both tend to be emotional for those involved.

 

Enjoy your evening!

 

Don't be so modest. IMHO, you have the best post in this whole thread.

[ddakrt]

Additional videos:

http://cbs4.com/video/?id=87319@wfor.dayport.com

 

lol it would totally make my day if NCL didn't comp. that stupid lady complaining about lettuce and water "hot enough to make tea".

 

What a whiner, hope she chooses another company from now on because I wouldn't want to cruise with people like that.

[Simon_B]

lol it would totally make my day if NCL didn't comp. that stupid lady complaining about lettuce and water "hot enough to make tea".

 

Wow. I don't really know what to say.

[wendy_woo2]

Out of my own curiosity, does NCL take care of accomodations for the next cruises passengers? (if the ship doesn't leave on time)...

Not everyone leaving on sunday was sch. for just 5 or 9 day cruise, we booked the 14 day cruise leaving miami on sunday, we were not told the status on if the ship would be able to do the nine day cruise or not, so we booked a flight home, sounds like "if" a person is lucky might get $150 back to cover the flight, which doesn't come near to the $600 we paided for a roundtrip ticket to get to the cruise and home again. Plus it being thankgiving weekend we had to stay a extra two nights in miami before we could get a flight home, so am hoping it all pan's out in the end :) and will get our cruise money back plus 50% off our next cruise up to the price this one cost, so if we paided say $1000 for this one will get $500 off our next cruise we book, yea

wendy

[goodml]

Wow. I don't really know what to say.

 

Hell hath frozen over.:D

[rolloman]

They are free to buy a boat if they won't fly, or lease a boat, or swim it...

 

Of course, this isn't the answer you wanted...

 

I think we are well aware of those options Don, not sure why you felt compelled to give such a wise guy comment. You usually are helpful. The question put in a simple way is, Did anyone who was afraid to fly board another cruiseship back to Miami? I know it can be done because we have family in Puerto Rico who use cruiseships as transportation to come visit us in Florida.

[pieshops]

You are right - I keep rising to the bait and that is my bad.

 

The real people to feel sorry for are those that had to go through this nightmare. As evidenced by the videos and their stories, it was very very bad - cruise from hell is probably too kind a description. Hopefully they cruise again.

 

As someone who was on the ship it was in no way the cruise from hell.

 

yes it was very uncomfortable friday evening, yes we had a few hours without flushing toilets, yes it was a mess with the flight situation,

 

but

 

it was one or two days of a vacation that perfect up until then, now if this had happened on day one or 2 and the entire cruise was missed, that is another story.

[Globaliser]

... nightmare ... cruise from hell ...

I don't think so.

 

It was uncomfortable and unpleasant, by all accounts, for a short period (a couple of days).

 

But even that's looking at it in the context of a cruise ship. There are plenty of travel experiences that people happily choose to go on, in comparison to which the Dawn would still have seemed like luxury.

 

I think that people who can't cope with conditions like this for a day or two, when things have suddenly gone wrong, might want to think about whether they should be travelling anywhere. From time to time, things will inevitably go wrong, and sometimes for whatever reason the recovery is not as fast or as efficient as it might have been. If one is the type of person for whom that constitutes a "nightmare" and "hell", it's not worth taking the risk.

 

[Edited to add:] I've just seen that pieshops, who was onboard, agrees that "cruise from hell" is an overstatement.

[RNPJN]

Gee 2 days out of 9 without air conditioning. We had 27 days with no electric in 2004 in Florida(5 and 100% humidity).

They got a great 7 day cruise lost only the sea days 75% back and 1/2 off next cruise ! We got an electric bill ,remember no electric for almost a month ,from FPL that was double, Yea I really feel for those people that claim it was a cruise from hell.