Very Technical Photo Book Question

[FinelyCruising]

I like to create photo books from vacations and I have found in the past that once produced in a book, the photos seem to have less character in terms of saturation and color and impact.

 

I was recently reading one pro-book site indicating that the printing process for photos, i.e. RGB was not the same process as photos to print and that it was CYMK for printing and that the RGB needed to be converted to CYMK as a result.

 

This is Greek to me and all I am certain of is that I am not happy with the quality of the photos in the end result photo books I have done in the past and currently I have some nice qualtiy shots from our most recent vacation that I want to archive in a photo book and I want excellent quality. Just like I see on my computer screen.

 

How do I get it?

 

Thanks!:)

[TheRoff]

FinelyCruising

 

It is true that computer screens and most photo manipulation software use the red, green, blue color space and printers use cyan, magenta, yellow, and key black However, for most less-than super-critical prints, the conversion algorithms used by most color ink jet printers do a decent job. Most commercial printing outfits like the ones used to print the books made at places like Blurb do a completely adequate job so that most of us do not need to worry about it. Just insure that your photos have enough resolution (at least 120 dots or pixels per inch) to print properly.

 

I don’t know what photo book place you are using, but I have been happy with the results from Blurb. I believe most of those web sites have discussion boards or places where users can post questions. You might spend some time on those boards to see if other people have had a similar experience and how they have solved it.

 

One thing to check for is to make sure your photos are saved with SRBG color space. I believe this is the most common. I accidently changed some photos to Adobe RBG and the colors were all washed out

 

 

Larry

[pierces]

When preparing photos for a photo book, I have found that by increasing the saturation by a small amount (+10 or so in Photoshop or Elements) makes a big difference in the final result. Converting to RGB (Red/Green/Blue) images to CYMK (Cyan/Yellow/Magenta/Black) is done by the bookmaker's printing software, so you needn't worry about that step.

 

Another thing I do wit Blurb is match the image to the exact resolution that the layout software states as optimum. If the layout calls for an image that is 1192x1440 pixels, I make a blank file of that size and then scale and crop my image to fit. I then save it to a new file and use the new file for the book page.

 

The Blurb book I did came out with excellent color and resolution using this technique.

 

Dave

[FinelyCruising]

Thank you so very much for all this advice.

 

I think I am going to get Elements and work with it and I have not heard of Blurb, so this will be a new opportunity.

 

I am currently using Aperture and the photobooks via iPhoto/Aperture/Apple, which I think might be Kodak, but I don't perform post-process alot. Despite that, my main goal is to get the clarity and the saturation I see on my screen duplicated in a book, and maybe a different book supplier might be the right next step.

 

I appreciate the details and I thank you again.

[RVRCLC]

My Kodak photo book could not have been more perfect.

[beauv]

I like to create photo books from vacations and I have found in the past that once produced in a book, the photos seem to have less character in terms of saturation and color and impact.

 

I was recently reading one pro-book site indicating that the printing process for photos, i.e. RGB was not the same process as photos to print and that it was CYMK for printing and that the RGB needed to be converted to CYMK as a result.

 

This is Greek to me and all I am certain of is that I am not happy with the quality of the photos in the end result photo books I have done in the past and currently I have some nice qualtiy shots from our most recent vacation that I want to archive in a photo book and I want excellent quality. Just like I see on my computer screen.

 

How do I get it?

 

Thanks!:)

 

 

One thing that is frequently forgotten is monitor calibration - if your monitor is way off then what you see on screen is not going to be what you get in print. Ie. colour cast, saturation, contrast etc. can all be different in the print to how you see it on your monitor. I have found calibrating my monitor regularly makes all the difference.

 

Ralph

[FinelyCruising]

One thing that is frequently forgotten is monitor calibration - if your monitor is way off then what you see on screen is not going to be what you get in print. Ie. colour cast, saturation, contrast etc. can all be different in the print to how you see it on your monitor. I have found calibrating my monitor regularly makes all the difference.

 

Ralph

 

Hi Ralph - I have never heard of this and so I am enlightented. How do I perform calibration? Thanks in advance.

[Kane]

Nobody has yet mentioned that the paper that the photo is printed on also has a pretty significant impact on the final result.

 

There may not be too much choice it it is being sent out, but any color cast the paper may have, as well as the reflective properties of the paper can greatly affect the end result.

[smileyone]

I also use kodak gallery for making my photo books. It will give me a warning if the picture doesn't work well for the size so that I can choose a different layout. The colors are normally wonderful especially on those that have enough resolution that I can do them as a full size page. The books I get are the Legacy size. Size is 12 X 14 which makes a great statement on those critical shots. They can be pricey so make sure to check the pages for the coupon codes. There is usually one somewhere on the website.

[beauv]

Hi Ralph - I have never heard of this and so I am enlightented. How do I perform calibration? Thanks in advance.

 

Hi again, nowadays calibration is pretty easy - I use Spyder Express (I think that they are at Spyder 3 Express now) by colorvision - www.colorvision.com. Comes with software and a "colorimeter"- very easy to use. It is not that expensive either, well worth the money. There are many calibration tools out there - but the Spyder ones have a really good reputation in the pro world and are easy to use (which pros like). Literally just follow on screen directions. If you google you will find video tutorials on how to use the various Spyders. Good luck,

 

Ralph

[beauv]

Nobody has yet mentioned that the paper that the photo is printed on also has a pretty significant impact on the final result.

 

There may not be too much choice it it is being sent out, but any color cast the paper may have, as well as the reflective properties of the paper can greatly affect the end result.

 

Very true - if you want you can ask for and download the profiles for the paper being used, then soft proof the images in Photoshop - view - proof setup - custom - then choose the relevant paper profile that you have downloaded (making sure that you have ticked "simulate paper color"). I presume that Elements and others have the same setup. I think that you will be amazed at the differences shown on screen - (particularly if printing to a matt paper.)

Ralph

[FinelyCruising]

For Step One I have downloaded the Elements tiral, and I spent lst evening working on one photo. I like the program and I have alot ot learn about maneuvering in it, but I think its a much better than program than Aperture for enhancing photos.

 

I have a lot to learn about this program and it will take time; its more complicated than I am used to, but I know I'll be happier with the final product.

 

I am going to ask Santa for some How-To books on this program.:)

 

The Paper...yes, the paper...does anyone know much about the Silk Paper upgrades? On Solstice and Equinox, Deep Blue Studios offers the photo books on the silk paper and it looks really nice.

[pierces]

When I ordered my Blurb books, I opted for the premium paper and was very pleased with the result. The pages rival any commercial coffee table book for look and feel.

 

Dave

[sparky-elpaso]

Try SmileBooks. I've ordered several from them and they're fantastic. The last one I ordered was of photos I took 40 years ago. Inexpensive film camera - fixed focus, etc. and made into slides. I scanned the slides and did some basic editing - crop, sharpen, fixed the color using Picasa and Photoscape. SmileBooks made them look darn good. It's an English company and the books are printed in Germany. Printed on very high quality paper and easy to use free software.

[Mparis184]

I used Shutterfly for all my photo books. However, the color of the photos in the last few books I have received looked too dark. The original photos were excellent. Any suggestions? My books contain a lot of photos - my British Isles cruise had 10 ports and the book had 100 pages.

 

Thanks,

 

Marion

[FinelyCruising]

Ok....so do you remembe when I started rambling on about the CMYK stuff in printing photo books???

 

Well after I downloaded Elements 8 I thought it would be a really good idea to get a few manuals to reall guide me on how to navigate the program. I am going through one right now which I am finding very helpful, here is a screen shot of what it is. I do still have one more to look over that Scott Kelby co-authored that I think both will be of great asstance to me.

 

The first phone-photo below is of the back of the book so you can reference what it is. The second phone-photo is a snap shot of a relevant section in the book that speaks about resolution and image sizes, web sharing, and printing and goes on to point to the CMYK process for high end printing. I wanted to share this with all of you since this is what originally piqued my interest in tryingto understand the drop off between what I see on teh screen and what I see in print. I am finding now that in Elements, I can decide the appropriate resolution to match my viewing or printing goals

 

So far, I have seen two sites that claim to produce high end books either use a Photoshop template, and one other that requires the files sent to them to them in Elements, and perhaps due to the Full Adobe being able to do the convert from RGB to CMYK for this type of printing?

 

I hope you enjoy contemplating these details as I am finding them interesting.

 

 

[pierces]

Still not a reason for concern. All modern print shops have software that will convert sRGB or Adobe RGB to CMYK for printing. This is done with a high degree of accuracy and I have never had a problem with color shifting.

 

One caveat, though. Calibrating your monitor using a Color Vision Spyder or a Pantone Huey is a must. If your monitor isn't calibrated, there's no way for the publisher to reference what you're seeing with what they are printing. Besides, calibrating makes your images look better on your screen since most monitor's default settings are way too bright out of the box!

 

Dave

[FinelyCruising]

 

One caveat, though. Calibrating your monitor using a Color Vision Spyder or a Pantone Huey is a must. If your monitor isn't calibrated, there's no way for the publisher to reference what you're seeing with what they are printing. Besides, calibrating makes your images look better on your screen since most monitor's default settings are way too bright out of the box!

 

Dave

 

Dave - One of the things I just learned is that my Mac comes with a calibration program. I can do it manually or I can pick from a drop down menu; one of the items on the pick list is Adobe 1998. :)

[pierces]

Dave - One of the things I just learned is that my Mac comes with a calibration program. I can do it manually or I can pick from a drop down menu; one of the items on the pick list is Adobe 1998. :)

 

The built-in calibration program works, but it relies on user evaluation and, as such, is still subjective to the viewer. I would really suggest spending the relatively small amount of money on a calibration sensor. It will outlast your monitor and will save you its cost in bad prints. For Christmas, you can get yourself a Spyder 3 Express kit for $70 and it will be the gift that keeps on giving!

 

Happy Shooting!

 

Dave

[FinelyCruising]

Ok Dave - what's a few more dollars at Christmas time...should have it on Thursday.:D

[FinelyCruising]

WOW!!! What a differnce.:eek:

[pierces]

WOW!!! What a differnce.:eek:

 

But was it a good difference?

 

Dave

[FinelyCruising]

But was it a good difference?

 

Dave

 

It was a significant difference between what I saw before and what I see now. Everything is darker I would say, so its a bit to get used to.

 

I only toyed with one Rome photo that I had adjusted before Spyder and then after Spyder it needed to be lightened, so to the idea that the photos are too dark in print I see why now, and I Thank You and the others who said CALIBRATE before you do anything else.

 

It is definitately Great Advice!

[pierces]

It was a significant difference between what I saw before and what I see now. Everything is darker I would say, so its a bit to get used to.

 

I only toyed with one Rome photo that I had adjusted before Spyder and then after Spyder it needed to be lightened, so to the idea that the photos are too dark in print I see why now, and I Thank You and the others who said CALIBRATE before you do anything else.

 

It is definitately Great Advice!

 

Glad to hear it did what is was supposed to. I was a bit put off by the darker image at first, but the prints actually coming out of the printer looking like the image on the monitor was an immediate cure for that slight annoyance.

 

Another thing I've done is to adjust the brightness on my camera's LCD to match (as closely as possible) the monitor with the same un-adjusted image on both. It makes checking exposure in the field a lot more accurate.

 

Dave

[FinelyCruising]

Update: I am miserable. I have spent hours and hours in CS4 and hours and hours and hours beyond in getting ready for sRGB for Blurb and I am not even done yet, and I think the family and friends would be happy with ordinary snap shots.

 

I am not happy... there has got to be a better way. :o