What to do in shaoukville

John Bull · May 3, 2010

Hello:

The truth is, Cambodia was perhaps the most heavily bombed country in the history of the world, full stop. (The US didn't drop that much ordinance in WW2.) That is perspetive. Respectfully, artillery fire "don't enter into it". And again, respectfully, everything you say does, in my view, belittle the devastation of the Cambodian people.

The observation that a broken down ferry is the result of inept administration somehow disassociated from this historical catastrophe ...well Mr. Bull, they are lucky to have the broken-down ramshackle public service that they do, overwhelmed by problems of poverty, disease, underdevelopment, non-existing infrastructure, poor expertise and, yes, the specter of the Kmer Rouge.

Smooth sailing...

Wow, World-Citizen, you sure don't like folk having a different opinion to your own :D

Your comment that Cambodia "had more bombs dropped on it than was dropped in all of WW2" is simply inaccurate, as I'm sure you now know. And I really don't see that comparing solely the weight of bombs dropped, and ignoring the other ordnance used in WW2, or the bombs which weren't labelled "made in the US", or the level of death & damage caused, is putting things in perspective. And I was careful to acknowledge that Laos & Cambodia are small countries to be targetted by such a level of firepower, so did not belittle the suffering.

Since Sihanoukville has tugs capable of handling ships porting, they are surely capable of shifting a broken-down ferry to somewhere where it's not obstructing their trade. Though why they've not repaired or scrapped it by now is beyond me.

Finally, back to the thread. My comment was merely warning cruisers that until the ferry is shifted Sihanoukville is consequently a tender port, contrary to what their itinerary might say. Important to all because its likely to mean less time ashore, and especially important to those unable to use tenders, or those expecting to spend the evening ashore since most ships will not use their tenders after dark in rarely-visited waters.

Cookie will find plenty of interest both in & around Sihanoukville - again I'll mention the fishing village, a real eye-opener.:)

Regards

JB

greatam · May 3, 2010

The observation that a broken down ferry is the result of inept administration somehow disassociated from this historical catastrophe ...well Mr. Bull, they are lucky to have the broken-down ramshackle public service that they do, overwhelmed by problems of poverty, disease, underdevelopment, non-existing infrastructure, poor expertise and, yes, the specter of the Kmer Rouge.

Smooth sailing...

The broken down ferry is more likely than not the result of a corrupt, inept government. And was FAR from any bombing.

I spent THREE years trying to get paperwork and approvals to buy and renovate an old apt building in Phnom Penh into a boutique hotel. EVERY time I thought I had the problems solved, I was asked for another "fee" for another piece of paper. I had a Cambodian lawyer working almost full time just to solve the problems. When it was finally finished and barely open, MORE restrictions were placed on how I could run the business. I gave up, although Phnom Penh is one of my two favorite places in the world. A Cambodian/Hong Kong business group had offered to buy it while it was being renovated. I said no-I really wanted to live part time in Phnom Penh. They ended up with the hotel and I lost a LOT of money.

The US bombing was in the far Eastern/NE part of the country along the Vietnam/Laos border. FAR, FAR away from any tourist sites of today.

Around Danang, Vietnam south and north was heavy VC territory. The VC would strike and run into NE Cambodia/SE Laos. There was a secondary "Ho Chi Minh Trail" running from the DMZ down through Eastern Laos/NE Cambodia. This is what we bombed to stop the fighting in the South and preserve the South Vietnamese government.

Few tourists go to NE Cambodia. There is nothing there other than farmers. What the Khmer Rouge did was far more devastating to Cambodia than any amount of bombs we dropped. And the Cambodia of today just does not care much about their country.

Vietnam has used a large number of bomb craters for fish farms from which they export products to the US and Europe. The Cambodians aren't as resourceful. There is nothing to prevent the farmers from raising fish in the bomb craters but they don't do it. Container transport OUT of Cambodia is excellent. Maersk has a large barge operation in Phnom Penh.

After spending three years with a lot of time on the ground in Cambodia, you will never convince me the problems of Cambodia are caused by anyone OTHER than their own government. Even the NGO's operating in Cambodia have the hint of graft attached. When the Unicef operatives show up for a meeting at the FCC in Phnom Penh in $75,000 Range Rovers and Beemers instead of $30,000 Chevy's/Toyotas, makes you really wonder how the NGO/charity money is being spent. Graft and corruption are a way of life in Cambodia.

world~citizen · May 4, 2010

The broken down ferry is more likely than not the result of a corrupt, inept government. And was FAR from any bombing.

I spent THREE years trying to get paperwork and approvals to buy and renovate an old apt building in Phnom Penh into a boutique hotel. EVERY time I thought I had the problems solved, I was asked for another "fee" for another piece of paper. I had a Cambodian lawyer working almost full time just to solve the problems. When it was finally finished and barely open, MORE restrictions were placed on how I could run the business. I gave up, although Phnom Penh is one of my two favorite places in the world. A Cambodian/Hong Kong business group had offered to buy it while it was being renovated. I said no-I really wanted to live part time in Phnom Penh. They ended up with the hotel and I lost a LOT of money.

The US bombing was in the far Eastern/NE part of the country along the Vietnam/Laos border. FAR, FAR away from any tourist sites of today.

Around Danang, Vietnam south and north was heavy VC territory. The VC would strike and run into NE Cambodia/SE Laos. There was a secondary "Ho Chi Minh Trail" running from the DMZ down through Eastern Laos/NE Cambodia. This is what we bombed to stop the fighting in the South and preserve the South Vietnamese government.

Few tourists go to NE Cambodia. There is nothing there other than farmers. What the Khmer Rouge did was far more devastating to Cambodia than any amount of bombs we dropped. And the Cambodia of today just does not care much about their country.

Vietnam has used a large number of bomb craters for fish farms from which they export products to the US and Europe. The Cambodians aren't as resourceful. There is nothing to prevent the farmers from raising fish in the bomb craters but they don't do it. Container transport OUT of Cambodia is excellent. Maersk has a large barge operation in Phnom Penh.

After spending three years with a lot of time on the ground in Cambodia, you will never convince me the problems of Cambodia are caused by anyone OTHER than their own government. Even the NGO's operating in Cambodia have the hint of graft attached. When the Unicef operatives show up for a meeting at the FCC in Phnom Penh in $75,000 Range Rovers and Beemers instead of $30,000 Chevy's/Toyotas, makes you really wonder how the NGO/charity money is being spent. Graft and corruption are a way of life in Cambodia.

Hello:

I understand your point.

You know, the Kmer Rouge is still shot through their government - which has only a veneer of stability.

Given the nature and circumstances of the bombing, (the government that Cambodia has is its legacy) I would have thought we would be in "judge not" mode, if you know what mean.

To say the plight that Cambodia finds itself in is of their own making...well that is just unrealistic, which is the point of my earlier posts.

I agree with respect to international aid efforts. They are very discouraging.

Smooth sailing to you...

world~citizen · May 4, 2010

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but you are dragging things way beyond the limit of my original post question

Perhaps.

The point that I tried, unsuccessfully, to make was that we are often too cavalier with our observations and attitudes towards the people and countries that we visit.

I would have thought a visit to Cambodia would be a purely humbling experience. It certainly is an exotic one, as you will find out.

Smooth sailing to you...

world~citizen · May 4, 2010

Cookie will find plenty of interest both in & around Sihanoukville - again I'll mention the fishing village, a real eye-opener.:)

JB

Hello:

If my post seemed stiff it wasn't meant to be.

I originally responded to your observation about the Tiger Economy thing. I see a logical link with respect to the cause - an almost self-evident one (for me) which admittedly there is debate over.

I was in Belgrade when the Prime Minister was shot. He tried to take on the Clans. In Moscow, mayors and governors and journalists are shot dead in the streets. They tried to fight corruption. Its hard to unravel that awful knot.

The thing to do is not get tied up in corruption in the first place. In that, it seems to me Cambodia is more a victim than perpetrator.

Anyway, your advice to Cookie is sound, and Sihanoukville is a wonderful destination.

Smooth sailing to you...

cookie at home · July 23, 2010

You might find the Don Bosco Hotel School some help some help as we did.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knowing that Sihanoukville is in its infancy of its tourist development i made contact with the Don Bosco Hotel School.Brother Roberto is the contact, Administrator.

We organized firstly as small personal group of CCers that grew into a group of 100+ of us from the Diamond Princess.

http://www.donboscokhmer.org/index.p...d=13&Itemid=16.

http://www.donboscohotelschool.com/

This was the Schools first venture into creating a local tour.They tried so hard to achieve a great day out for us.We were greeted proffessionaly at the wharf and escourted to our 4 awaiting buses then taken on a local tour of a Temple. Beaches,Headlands,Town,and then finally to the Hotel School.(beware of a extra charge to meet you shipside as opposed to a short walk outside the gate.The school was unaware of this charge untill a day prior)

The Hotel School has 3 training businesses set up for its training purposes.Beach front Cafe,a downtown Coffee Shop and the actual Hotel School.

We visited the Beachfront Cafe,and Hotel School where cleanliness can only be described as immaculate and a oassis in a very disadvantaged community.

The Hotel School became our final stop where we were served a very simple but well done buffet lunch in absolute immaculate clean surroundings accompanied by a local cultural dance group.

The meal was served by a small army of Students all eager to learn and please and in full view of the working kitchen.

I highly recomend contacting the Don Bosco Hotel School for any local Sihanoukville or surrounding tour of any kind that can be tailored for as few as 2 or a 100+ passenger tour. The School has its own 2 mini buses plus they can hire other vehicles

I was on the SUN PRINCESS 21 DAY Fremantle roundtrip which departed 31ST JULY 2010 ..Having read this post after ??? what to do in Sianhoukville i contacted Brother Roberto ...the result was that at this port 8 of us were picked up outside the port gates for our tour ....what can i say ...what a day !!! :) we visited the local fish market ...visited a local orphanage & buddhist temple drove through downtown and stopped for morning tea at the downtown icecream /coffee shop ...where we were served sandwiches & cake tea coffee & ice cream as desired ..Brother Roberto personally came down from the hotel school to greet us...he is of Italian descent .. next a short stop at the local market was quite an eye opener ...the poverty of the place is quite evident ..one has to walk away from the beggars and the limbless ..its quite confronting ...we are the lucky ones ..SAD FACT ..

Arrival at the hotel school ..we were shown around the hotel ..magnificent rooms ..spotlessly clean ..very high standard ..we were shown the kitchen areas laundry and more ..nothing out of bounds ...the swimming pool proved too much temptation for a couple of our group ..they welcomed the chance to " cool down " towels were readily supplied ...

Lunch ...we were served a delicious lunch ..a glass of white wine for welcome , followed by a delicious potato & seafood salad with basil oil sauce followed by crab soup chinese style ..we had a choice of three main dishes ..then dessert ..the best chocolate profiteroles ever :) with home made italian ice cream ...tea coffee ..the meal was served by polite students all eager to please

and as the previous poster mentioned in full view of the working kitchen ....Brother Roberto again joined us for a short time to thank us for visiting ...after lunch we walked around the complex ..past the classes of children ..visited the technical teaching area ..welding in progress ..then a short ride & stop at one of the beach areas & drive around the outer town area before being driven back to the wharf area ...it was a humble experience visiting here and seeing how the disadvantaged youth are working towards a better life free from poverty ...$45US for the tour including morning tea and lunch not a lot to us really .. to have helped a little to support this school and see how our money & donations would achieve more..well what can i say ..makes you appreciate what you have and to realize how lucky most of us are ...our tour guide was Darmer ..he usually works in reception ..we were only the 2nd tour they have done ..so thank you fellow ccer for your recommendation ..i also HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE DON BOC HOTEL SCHOOL ..get out of your comfort zone ....why pay for highly inflated ships tours i ask ....PLEASE HELP A GOOD CAUSE ....you'll be glad as we were you did ..

Girl from Oz · July 25, 2010

COOKIE AT HOME : I have tears in my eyes reading your post. Not because of the conditions you experienced in Sihanoukville but they are tears of joy that you found the Don Bosco school.

I was lucky enough to be part of that first group to visit the Don Bosco School last November 2009 and am delighted that this wonderful place can be highlighted on CC. As my friend Anthony (Campingman) previously posted, we had a wonderful and eye opening day travelling around this emerging, but "disadvantaged" community and were so impressed with the efforts of Brother Roberto in taking young Cambodians into his school and giving them the chance of a better future.

I truly hope more western visitors discover Brother Roberto and his Don Bosco School and support his efforts.

Thank you

SAM4 · July 25, 2010

You might find the Don Bosco Hotel School some help some help as we did.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knowing that Sihanoukville is in its infancy of its tourist development i made contact with the Don Bosco Hotel School.Brother Roberto is the contact, Administrator.

We organized firstly as small personal group of CCers that grew into a group of 100+ of us from the Diamond Princess.

http://www.donboscokhmer.org/index.p...d=13&Itemid=16.

http://www.donboscohotelschool.com/

This was the Schools first venture into creating a local tour.They tried so hard to achieve a great day out for us.We were greeted proffessionaly at the wharf and escourted to our 4 awaiting buses then taken on a local tour of a Temple. Beaches,Headlands,Town,and then finally to the Hotel School.(beware of a extra charge to meet you shipside as opposed to a short walk outside the gate.The school was unaware of this charge untill a day prior)

The Hotel School has 3 training businesses set up for its training purposes.Beach front Cafe,a downtown Coffee Shop and the actual Hotel School.

We visited the Beachfront Cafe,and Hotel School where cleanliness can only be described as immaculate and a oassis in a very disadvantaged community.

The Hotel School became our final stop where we were served a very simple but well done buffet lunch in absolute immaculate clean surroundings accompanied by a local cultural dance group.

The meal was served by a small army of Students all eager to learn and please and in full view of the working kitchen.

I highly recomend contacting the Don Bosco Hotel School for any local Sihanoukville or surrounding tour of any kind that can be tailored for as few as 2 or a 100+ passenger tour. The School has its own 2 mini buses plus they can hire other vehicles

I was on the SUN PRINCESS 21 DAY Fremantle roundtrip which departed 31ST JULY 2010 ..Having read this post after ??? what to do in Sianhoukville i contacted Brother Roberto ...the result was that at this port 8 of us were picked up outside the port gates for our tour ....what can i say ...what a day !!! :) we visited the local fish market ...visited a local orphanage & buddhist temple drove through downtown and stopped for morning tea at the downtown icecream /coffee shop ...where we were served sandwiches & cake tea coffee & ice cream as desired ..Brother Roberto personally came down from the hotel school to greet us...he is of Italian descent .. next a short stop at the local market was quite an eye opener ...the poverty of the place is quite evident ..one has to walk away from the beggars and the limbless ..its quite confronting ...we are the lucky ones ..SAD FACT ..
Arrival at the hotel school ..we were shown around the hotel ..magnificent rooms ..spotlessly clean ..very high standard ..we were shown the kitchen areas laundry and more ..nothing out of bounds ...the swimming pool proved too much temptation for a couple of our group ..they welcomed the chance to " cool down " towels were readily supplied ...

Lunch ...we were served a delicious lunch ..a glass of white wine for welcome , followed by a delicious potato & seafood salad with basil oil sauce followed by crab soup chinese style ..we had a choice of three main dishes ..then dessert ..the best chocolate profiteroles ever :) with home made italian ice cream ...tea coffee ..the meal was served by polite students all eager to please

and as the previous poster mentioned in full view of the working kitchen ....Brother Roberto again joined us for a short time to thank us for visiting ...after lunch we walked around the complex ..past the classes of children ..visited the technical teaching area ..welding in progress ..then a short ride & stop at one of the beach areas & drive around the outer town area before being driven back to the wharf area ...it was a humble experience visiting here and seeing how the disadvantaged youth are working towards a better life free from poverty ...$45US for the tour including morning tea and lunch not a lot to us really .. to have helped a little to support this school and see how our money & donations would achieve more..well what can i say ..makes you appreciate what you have and to realize how lucky most of us are ...our tour guide was Darmer ..he usually works in reception ..we were only the 2nd tour they have done ..so thank you fellow ccer for your recommendation ..i also HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE DON BOC HOTEL SCHOOL ..get out of your comfort zone ....why pay for highly inflated ships tours i ask ....PLEASE HELP A GOOD CAUSE ....you'll be glad as we were you did ..

COOKIE AT HOME : I have tears in my eyes reading your post. Not because of the conditions you experienced in Sihanoukville but they are tears of joy that you found the Don Bosco school.

I was lucky enough to be part of that first group to visit the Don Bosco School last November 2009 and am delighted that this wonderful place can be highlighted on CC. As my friend Anthony (Campingman) previously posted, we had a wonderful and eye opening day travelling around this emerging, but "disadvantaged" community and were so impressed with the efforts of Brother Roberto in taking young Cambodians into his school and giving them the chance of a better future.

I truly hope more western visitors discover Brother Roberto and his Don Bosco School and support his efforts.

Thank you

Cookie at home, I'm so glad to read your lovely account about your day at the Don Bosco School.

I assisted Campingman in organising our 100 plus C C Roll Call group shore excursion, in Sihanoukville. It was an experience that has changed my life forever.

Brother Roberto is truly a Saint, devoting his life to training the youth at The Don Bosco School in Sihanoukville. Where they recruit Students from the poorest of the poor.All funded from donations.

What to do in shaoukville

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