Reflections on Rebranding

[Welland]

Someone on the Celebrity boards drew my attention to Oceania's new ship, Marina. Take a look at the suites on their website. Azamara has a very long way to go!

 

What you say has some validity however let's remember we must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. The new Oceania ship is new and has been built to their specifications. Remember that both the Azamara and Oceania ships were built by Renaissance and no major modifications were made. I think that even die hard Oceania fans will want to try the new ship. Now that they have shown what the suite will look like will be more interesting to see the verandah staterooms. Let's hope that Azamara can stay afloat and perhaps they too will have a new ship on the seas in the near future and that's when we can make fair comparisons.

[Project_gal]

What you say has some validity however let's remember we must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. The new Oceania ship is new and has been built to their specifications.

 

Apologies, I did not make my point clearly. I understand that it is impossible to compare a new build and an old ship but you CAN compare the imagination and ingenuity used in furnishing and decorating a ship. Just to mention one thing that caught my eye on Marina - they have managed to include an attractive dining area for two in their PS which appears to equate to a Sky Suite on Azamara. Just consider from threads on this board how popular that would be and it could be achieved at a low cost compared to the increased cruise prices Azamara are now asking. I accept that other innovations, such as repositioning the closets allowing much better bathrooms in the non-suite accommodation, cannot be so easily achieved without a major refit.

[volleyballmom87]

Do the butlers remove suitcases from all rooms or only suites? The bed height would matter for me if they do not remove them from all rooms.

[spanglycruisegirl]

Do the butlers remove suitcases from all rooms or only suites? The bed height would matter for me if they do not remove them from all rooms.

 

 

Yes,if you ask,your butler will store your suitcases for you (whichever stateroom you are in).They "miraculously" reappear the day before you disembark....

[Welland]

Apologies, I did not make my point clearly. I understand that it is impossible to compare a new build and an old ship but you CAN compare the imagination and ingenuity used in furnishing and decorating a ship. Just to mention one thing that caught my eye on Marina - they have managed to include an attractive dining area for two in their PS which appears to equate to a Sky Suite on Azamara. Just consider from threads on this board how popular that would be and it could be achieved at a low cost compared to the increased cruise prices Azamara are now asking. I accept that other innovations, such as repositioning the closets allowing much better bathrooms in the non-suite accommodation, cannot be so easily achieved without a major refit.

 

Thanks. I now understand where you were coming from.

[bellebaby]

Hello. I don't know if this is the right thread to post this, but here goes.

 

About a month ago, I noticed Azamara increased pricing for Oceanview staterooms on 2010 European sailings to the same price as the lowest category Veranda staterooms. At that time, I said to myself... looks like a Veranda for an Oceanview sale is on the horizon... Except it's not a sale on Verandas... it's an Oceanview price increase!

 

Sure enough, I received the following in an e-mail from Azamara today:

 

And to celebrate the new Azamara Club Cruises, explore our savings of up to 50% - and enjoy a beautiful Club Veranda Stateroom for the price of a Club Oceanview stateroom - on our 2010 Europe voyages.

 

Moral of the story... keep an eye on pricing... all is not as it seems on the surface these days!

 

B

[gosport11]

I to noticed that the prices where the same,in fact the balcony increased and the ocean view went up to same price, the 50% discount is the price shown in uk and not price less 50% so a little misleadfing if you dont read small print also only on a few cruises early in season :):):)

[JennAngel9]

Tampalawyer, if you are still around, I just wanted to point out that from even a HAL oceanview (I haven't sailed them since '02 so I am not familiar with the current ship cabin categories and am not sure what you sailed in) you may be a bit shocked at the Veranda/Oceanview cabins on Azamara, and I also felt that the R ships minisuites are nothing to write home about. Having done the Baltic on Celebrity, I loved the M-class ship but I do wish we'd had a 3rd day in St. Petersburg. Having sailed on pretty much every US line except luxury lines, I would say that I didn't put Azamara food in the top category (I recall HAL being excellent, but it was 8 years go in Alaska..). I think they are a fantastic cruise line with excellent staff-- but I don't think they are standouts in either the accomodations or food categories.

[tampalawyer]

Yes, I'm still around Jennangel. I want 3 days in St. Petersburg. I have identified Silversea, Oceania and Azamara as possibilities. I have friends that love Silversea for a number of obvious reasons. Fine cuisine is a must for me. Looks like Oceania is the same type ship as Azamara. Would you say the cabins on both Azamara and Oceania are "so-so"? If Azamara continues its upward pricing it appears Silversea is the best opportunity. Comments?

[JennAngel9]

Hi Tampalawyer. I'll try to answer your questions the best I can but, having never sailed Silversea or Oceania, there might be others around who are more useful. Princess, Azamara and Oceania all sail nearly identical sister ships, so with the exception of Royal Princess, the cabin and deck layouts on all ships are nearly identical. We have sailed on Tahitian Princess in a mini suite and were so unimpressed with the layout (as compared to minis on Celebrity and Cunard) that we decided to do a regular balcony on the Azamara Journey. An important caveat is that Oceania is building a new ship, the Marina, with MUCH improved staterooms, but since they have not yet released any sailings in the Baltic, I have been assuming you are not considering them. A rather unique feature of HAL, among non-luxury lines, as I understand it, is that they have bathtubs in all of their rooms except inside cabins. On Azamara you will find that all rooms up to the mini's (not sure what Az is calling them these days but they take up most of deck 8) have only showers, and they are a bit narrow. I am going to check on the category of your last sailing and then report back on relative sizing.

[JennAngel9]

Hi Tampalawyer. I'll try to answer your questions the best I can but, having never sailed Silversea or Oceania, there might be others around who are more useful. Princess, Azamara and Oceania all sail nearly identical sister ships, so with the exception of Royal Princess, the cabin and deck layouts on all ships are nearly identical. We have sailed on Tahitian Princess in a mini suite and were so unimpressed with the layout (as compared to minis on Celebrity and Cunard) that we decided to do a regular balcony on the Azamara Journey. An important caveat is that Oceania is building a new ship, the Marina, with MUCH improved staterooms, but since they have not yet released any sailings in the Baltic, I have been assuming you are not considering them. A rather unique feature of HAL, among non-luxury lines, as I understand it, is that they have bathtubs in all of their rooms except inside cabins. On Azamara you will find that all rooms up to the mini's (not sure what Az is calling them these days but they take up most of deck 8) have only showers, and they are a bit narrow. I am going to check on the category of your last sailing and then report back on relative sizing.

 

So if I understand correctly, you were in a Superior Verandah Suite-- which is 389sqft, with separate shower and tub. On Az, the mini will get you 266sqft so you'll need to go up to full suite (either Royal or Penthouse) to get 430sqft. I do believe Azamara furnishes their full suites a bit nicer than their minis and balconies-- hopefully somebody who has done both can comment-- but as I understand it, it is quite difficult to get the full size suites on Azamara due to scarcity (and I believe pricing for them can run 2-3x that of a mini). I think there are 10 full suites on each ship. All of the room features and sizings I've just discussed about Azamara also apply to Oceania, though I think it's even harder to get full suites on Oceania, from what I have heard.

 

On the other hand, I feel like what I read about these boards is that Oceania gets consistently higher marks for food than Azamara. My husband and I, who are both have high standards and sophisticated palates, actually had very divergent opinions of the caliber of dining on the Journey. We both thought that Aqualina was delicious and that Prime C was consistently good-great. My husband also enjoyed the MDR, whereas I generally found my options to be limited and don't remember being excited by any of my entrees there (to be fair we only ate there about 5 nights total). Most of all, I felt that Azamara had not really mastered open dining and that the MDR was the only place on the ship where the service was not spectacular.

 

I think that unless you strongly dislike smoking, most people here would agree for the same price you should try Silversea over Azamara or Oceania. The other main difference is that Silversea is going to be more dressy whereas Az and Oceania are more casual. I know almost nothing about Crystal, so hopefully somebody else can answer that for you. I would bet there are a good number of people on the Crystal board who have/do sail on HAL and could give you a decent comparison-- I have heard good things about their culinary capabilities.

[piscean]

Yes, I'm still around Jennangel. I want 3 days in St. Petersburg. I have identified Silversea, Oceania and Azamara as possibilities. I have friends that love Silversea for a number of obvious reasons. Fine cuisine is a must for me. Looks like Oceania is the same type ship as Azamara. Would you say the cabins on both Azamara and Oceania are "so-so"? If Azamara continues its upward pricing it appears Silversea is the best opportunity. Comments?

Hi I am sailing on Regent Voyager to the Baltics. 3 days in St. Petersburg.

We selected this ship above Azamara for the inclusive flights and excursions.The excursions with Azamara are very expensive and adding up all the costs Regent came in at a little more for a 6 star experience. They also include wine (don't drink but DH does) and gratuities. We have has SS grade on Azamara but the Voyager is a MUCH larger stateroom.

The Voyager was booked BEFORE Azamara prices increased.

[Project_gal]

I do believe Azamara furnishes their full suites a bit nicer than their minis and balconies-- hopefully somebody who has done both can comment--

 

I think most people would find the decor and furnishing of the Azamara PH and RS disappointing [see my earlier coments on this thread]. IMHO their main selling point is the space they provide both inside and on the balcony and the storage provided.

 

but as I understand it, it is quite difficult to get the full size suites on Azamara due to scarcity (and I believe pricing for them can run 2-3x that of a mini). I think there are 10 full suites on each ship

 

There are 6 PS and 4 RS on each of Azamara's two ships. [Apologies, I have not mastered the new names for the suites.] In my experience, in view of their pricing and the size of the ships, this does NOT make them scarce and they tend to sell slowly.

 

We loved our PS and have booked the same suite again for our second Azamara cruise. We loved leaning on the balcony watching the wake and found that there was almost always part of the balcony in the shade and part in the sun allowing us to choose what we wanted. We appreciate having space when we travel and are unlikely to choose anything smaller but but would not be willing to pay the new price.

[Jaffa]

Ok, I might be able to shed some light here.

 

I have over 250 nights with Silversea and 38 nights with Oceania. I have not yet had the pleasure to sail with A.

 

Silversea is a much more polished product. Even at full capacity the SS ships carry just over 1/2 of the passengers that Oceania berths. 280/380 on SS to the 600 odd on Oceania.

Yet the ships on both lines are not to different in size, give or take.

 

Yes Oceania is a more casual experience and SS is more formal.

I found the food on SS to be more consistent than Oceania.

Yet l found the night life to be more active on Oceania later in the evenings.

 

I found the SS St Petersburg shore experiences to be first rate.

(l wanted to know about the history of the KGB, the SS concierge organised a retired senior KGB general to guide me for 2 days on the most comprehensive shore experience l have ever undertaken. He and his driver an ex GRU which included entry into some amazing places closed off to the public and a dinner with 8 ex KGB/GRU individuals and their partners at a specially reserved resteraunt where storys were told well into the night).

I will never forget that exerience.

 

I liked the laid back attitude on Oceania.

 

The standard Verandah's are larger and better laid out on SS. They are also more upmarket and stylish.

 

Now that Oceania's prices are getting up there with Silversea's, my preference will be to stick with the later for value and experience.

 

There is just something special about all that space on SS which seemingly is there just for you.

I have not yet found a cruiseline that blows me away with shore experiences like SS does. Their onboard private concierge service is in my opinion the best at sea. Especialy with last minute stuff.

 

I have also cruised Crystal (once never again) RSSC (I don't like cruising with children) Seabourn (my 2nd favourite cruiseline, but i'm a balcony fan and love pools) Cunard (to big) HAL (to boring) and Princess (to much nickle and diming)

 

Mind you, l have always traveled solo and for at least 30 days at a time.

For shorter cruises my opinion may not be as relevant.

 

If Oceania kept their old pricing structure they would see me onboard more for when l needed a more casual break.

But not with the new pricing....

 

By the sounds of comments on this thread A seems to be going backwards and if this is true, that would rule me out.

[stonystratford]

I've watched the discussion since my original post, and agree that we all are different, have diverging tastes and expectations. To those that were asking about the Penthouse Suites, I would underscore the space, closet and bathroom facilities were excellent, and the verandah a joy. Certainly if you want to pay the premium - and based on recent experiences, they are often the last to go, so availability is not an issue - they are well worthwhile for these reasons alone. But, I would caution that they feel 'tired': furniture, decor, etc is just not good enough for the prices asked. And, refreshing 10 suites costs them nothing, with no structural work to be done. Altthough in suite dining is an excellent option, unless you are sitting outside watching the wake, you honestly would prefer to dine in one of the restaurants.

 

With regard to comments on dining and service; both my wife are probably 'foodies'. We do not enjoy the cruise reputation of adding 14 pounds of weight on a cruise - we enjoy good food, well presented and prepared. Azamara uses great base ingredients (I am led to believe they spend much more per head than most lines) but it flat out, is not up to standards set by others at this time in flavour, presentation or variety. (tour the galley and see pictograms of the meals on the walls and you'll understand why!!).

 

The post was not intended to be a criticism - more a reality check (as seen through our eyes). Azamara currently is 'mutton dressed up as lamb' as my grandmother used to say. The reality is that everything is actually quite 'fixable' with little investment. Staff selection and training, more visible hands-on on-board management a quick decor uplift in the suites are systemic, not capital intensive. (But do someting about the catering!!). Currently it simply feels that the goals of the leadership have simply not percolated through the organization. It is a Sheraton experience when you may be expecting a Meridien, an Outback Steakhouse compared to a Ruth's Chris.

 

If you want a great experience, sail Silverseas (and pay the price). If you want this experience, sail Princess and save the money!

 

BTW, to be clear, we are directly in the target demographic as stated by Azamara Club in age, income and employment. I think therefore that our observations are particularly important actually, for we represent hard-working - often self-employed or business owners - individuals woh have to deal with these very issues for their own businesses to be successful themselves.

 

Best wishes for all cruisers out there: I'd love to see a post in coming weeks from others who have recently been on this ship.

[Jade13]

[quote name='tampalawyer']Yes, I'm still around Jennangel. I want 3 days in St. Petersburg. I have identified Silversea, Oceania and Azamara as possibilities. I have friends that love Silversea for a number of obvious reasons. Fine cuisine is a must for me. Looks like Oceania is the same type ship as Azamara. Would you say the cabins on both Azamara and Oceania are "so-so"? If Azamara continues its upward pricing it appears Silversea is the best opportunity. Comments?[/quote]

Ask me after we get back from our Feb Azamara cruise. We were on SilverSea last year. We didn't think the food was better than HAL.