Extra tipping for dining staff

[smeyer418]

[quote name='Lsimon']It hasn't been an opt-in system for about a year now. Celebrity has had automatic auto-tipping for all guests who have not prepaid their tips and if you want to opt-out then you have to go to customer relations to have it removed from your account. I believe from posts I've read that for those on select dining it is mandatory (can not opt-out and prepayment might even be required now. The only thing you can opt-in on is increased abouts being charged to your account, or you can give increased amounts in cash (which a couple staff have indicated they prefer).

My understanding is that the staff does not have any idea who has paid what tips nor how through most of the cruise. They do receive this information in a print-out around the second to last day of the cruise (after the deadline for any changes by passengers), so they know what to expect from the guests at the end of the cruise.

Dining room staff has told us they do much better with auto tipping due to the large number of guests who, in the past have shorted them on tips or stiffed them all together. Guests can still do this by opting out, but it entails more effort on the guests part now so fewer do this.[/quote]

thanks >..times are a changing. yes I know that the staff is happier about this. the Cheapos aren't....you know who you are...

I am told that on another cruise line the percent opting out is small(less than 10%) except for certain cruises and certain nationalities...

[wanderlust402]

[quote name='Lsimon']They do receive this information in a print-out around the second to last day of the cruise (after the deadline for any changes by passengers)[/quote]

I wasn't aware of a deadline. I had thought that you could make this adjustment on the last night of the cruise. How can someone really evaluate the performance of an crew member until the end of the trip.

[Denny01]

[quote name='wanderlust402']I wasn't aware of a deadline. I had thought that you could make this adjustment on the last night of the cruise. How can someone really evaluate the performance of an crew member until the end of the trip.[/quote]
Not sure what you are evaluating. I'd assume your waitstaff has either met your requirements to obtain their standard gratuity or shown themselves above/below your standards and you'd take appropriate action prior to the last night, Would a gaffe on the last night mean you'd run up and cut their tip?

On the day before we finished our 13N TA, I mentioned how great the cruise had been to a guy in the elevator - his response was, 'well, we'll see'. It got the distinct idea he was disappointed he hadn't found something to gripe about or an excuse to cut his various gratiuties. But I'm sure he found something amiss.

My view is the gratuities are for an overall experience, not evaluated via some point system or checklist, or viewed as 'they messed this up, so.....'.

Just a thought.

Denny

[Ships R Great]

Interesting thread. And, for the most part, civil---which is unusual when tipping is discussed.

We re told on Mercury last month that cashi given directly to server, i.e. bar waiter, was kept by that server. I hope that is the case fleet-wide.

[Lsimon]

[quote name='wanderlust402']I wasn't aware of a deadline. I had thought that you could make this adjustment on the last night of the cruise. How can someone really evaluate the performance of an crew member until the end of the trip.[/quote]

I think the deadline is usually about three days before the end of the cruise - at least that is what it was a little more than a year ago - before the charged tips were automatic. That gives enough time, especially on longer cruises, to get a pretty good idea of what the service is like. Upward adjustments can always be made in cash the final night on board.

[cal516]

We had a great dinning room team. Our Asst Waiter was particularly exceptional. For what it is worth, she was leaving =X= because she felt the hours were not worth the renumeration.

 

She claimed she made $50/month plus $2.10 per guest she served per day. Our team had 2 tables at main seating with a total of 14 guests (8+6). Not sure if their tables were full for 2nd seating but assuming they were, that's a total of 28 guests or $58.80/day. Using 30 days per month that's $1,764 plus the $50 or total monthly pay of $1,814.

 

She said their schedule varied significantly but averaged about 12 to 14 hours per day with an occasional high of about 16 hours. Using 14 hours/day that's 420 hrs/mo or a rate of $4.32/hr.

 

Taxability of wages depends on their citizenship and varies from country to country.

 

Crew members do get reduced rates for some recreational events. For example, she went para sailing on a ship's tour which sold to passengers for $89. Her price was $25.

 

So ... we felt it appropriate to add about $40 to her pre-paid tip for our 9 day cruise. We made similar additions to the Waiter and Cabin Attendant and tipped one bar waiter $20 for consistent personal attention. In the real world I usually tip 20% unless the wait staff gives me a reason not to.

[smeyer418]

We had a great dinning room team. Our Asst Waiter was particularly exceptional. For what it is worth, she was leaving =X= because she felt the hours were not worth the renumeration.

 

She claimed she made $50/month plus $2.10 per guest she served per day. Our team had 2 tables at main seating with a total of 14 guests (8+6). Not sure if their tables were full for 2nd seating but assuming they were, that's a total of 28 guests or $58.80/day. Using 30 days per month that's $1,764 plus the $50 or total monthly pay of $1,814.

 

She said their schedule varied significantly but averaged about 12 to 14 hours per day with an occasional high of about 16 hours. Using 14 hours/day that's 420 hrs/mo or a rate of $4.32/hr.

 

Taxability of wages depends on their citizenship and varies from country to country.

 

Crew members do get reduced rates for some recreational events. For example, she went para sailing on a ship's tour which sold to passengers for $89. Her price was $25.

 

So ... we felt it appropriate to add about $40 to her pre-paid tip for our 9 day cruise. We made similar additions to the Waiter and Cabin Attendant and tipped one bar waiter $20 for consistent personal attention. In the real world I usually tip 20% unless the wait staff gives me a reason not to.

 

 

$1500-$2000 per month to an assistant waiter is about right.

But they also get free room and board, free medical care, free work clothing and paid airfare to and from home if they complete the contract. As they more up the ladder they will be make more...

 

If each of the 14 guests per week gave her an extra $20 she would make another 1000 per month(or slightly more)...

 

the 2.15 per guest per day was her share of that magnificent amount of $23 per couple. $11.50 per day per person broken up amount the room stewards, and dining room staff. So about $5.75 is available per day in the dining room. to be split amount the waiter/asst and maitre d(head waiter)

[DocJohnB]

Not sure what you are evaluating. I'd assume your waitstaff has either met your requirements to obtain their standard gratuity or shown themselves above/below your standards and you'd take appropriate action prior to the last night, Would a gaffe on the last night mean you'd run up and cut their tip?

 

Denny

 

Denny,

 

Good point, but . . . . . . . .

 

Our last cruise was a t/a on the Century. The waiter, ass't waiter did an OK job. The waiter was all I expect a waiter to be (nothing more). The assistant, while extremely personable seemed harried and made occasional mistakes. Nothing serious. However 3 times while ladling either dressings or sauces, he dribbled on me (for the most part on my napkin). I laid this problem on the set-up of the table and my position at it. He was apologetic. I even moved a bit to help him. Stuff happens.

 

Whenever we met him in his other duties (buffet, etc.) he was always pleasant and greeted us.

 

Neither the waiter nor the assistant did anything out of the ordinary and i did not adjust nor tip them extra. (Now, regardless of my previous post, I will tip extra for truly outstanding service and did to our cabin stewardess on this cruise).

 

Now, tips are paid, comment card is filled out and submitted. I head to breakfast on disembarkation day. Our assistant happens to be behind the serving line. I give him a cheery (as a last day can be) good morning. In return I get a "stare". He literally slopped on my scrambled eggs and hash browns and English muffin and slid (vs handing) my plate to me. After sitting at the table, I observed him with other guests. Friendly, "good morning, etc." and courteous.

 

I placed his "attitude" on one thing. I did not "tip" him "extra" as some at our table did.

 

Did it "ruin" my cruise. . . . . of course not. IMO, his behavior was an anomaly. Had never had anything like it happen in 20+ previous cruises.

 

Bottom line is I don't know exactly when an evaluation and the resultant gratuity should end. I paid for a 14 night cruise with 14 days of gratuities. In his case, I received 13 days of expected service and one morning of crappy service and an "attitude".

 

I did write a letter to guest relations. Hopefully they have dealt with the matter in a way that is appropriate (perhaps additional training).

[BonnieVA]

Interesting thread. And, for the most part, civil---which is unusual when tipping is discussed.

 

Amen to that! And, as the OP, I REALLY appreciate it! There's a lot of good discussion going on here & I've learned a lot.

[dzcruisers]

Amen to that! And, as the OP, I REALLY appreciate it! There's a lot of good discussion going on here & I've learned a lot.

 

Something people often forget is that most guests eat at least three meals a day and that tip the waiter gets covers all three meals, not just dinner. You will find your dining room waiter in the buffet or MDR for other meals.

 

We too leave the automatic tips on and tip extra for extraordinary service!

[smeyer418]

one more point, Azamara raised its fares 20% and is now including basic tips in the fares as they try to get more Brits to use them. They are also including some wine but also removing the "butlers" from everybody but the suites. Whether the fare increases hold I don't know but this is the first salvo in adding the tips/service charge into the fare- from X's bro'(sister?) line and reflects the fact that the crew has to be paid. If the people using it won't tip, it has to be added into the fare.

[morepower]

On our Panama cruise our cabin attendant was exceptional. On one of our many conversations I found out he was getting 2 hours shore leave at our next port. I gave him $10.00 to go and have a nice lunch. When we arrived back on ship he was there to open our door and I asked him how his lunch was - with tears in his eyes he said he used the money to call home. We graciously shook hands and the next week he got another $10.00. We auto tip too and adding that little extra, knowing the staff can really use the money warms the old heart. We are lucky to be able to enjoy such 5 star service.

[bobbyleduck]

I refuse to tell anybody how or how much to tip, and I doubt that most people know how much a waiter earns aboard ship. I didn't, and after reading thread after thread on the subject for the past 3+ years, I can say that I thought it was a lot less than it is. Here is some information from $elling the $ea: An inside look at the Cruise Industry, by Bob Dickinson, president and CEO of Carnival Cruise Lines, and Andy Vladimir, marketing professor at Florida International University. The second edition was written in 2006, and published in 2008. From page 82:

 

"While their salaries are nominal, their tips can be substantial--waiters on the three major lines average around $3,000 per month tax free, and as all of their meals, accommodations, and medical expenses are provided, that's money they can take home." By the way, you'll note that is average and takes into account those who tip little or nothing, those who tip the recommended amount and those who tip extra.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable!

[BonnieVA]

"While their salaries are nominal, their tips can be substantial--waiters on the three major lines average around $3,000 per month tax free, and as all of their meals, accommodations, and medical expenses are provided, that's money they can take home."

 

I was just having a conversation the other day w/ a friend who made the same point about having expenses covered. If they are single that's great. The thing is, many who work on ships also have families back home who require housing, medical, meal, etc expenses to be paid. So, while the crew member does have some free-bees, they still have to pay for their families' expenses which is why many are working on these ships to begin with.

[smeyer418]

I refuse to tell anybody how or how much to tip, and I doubt that most people know how much a waiter earns aboard ship. I didn't, and after reading thread after thread on the subject for the past 3+ years, I can say that I thought it was a lot less than it is. Here is some information from $elling the $ea: An inside look at the Cruise Industry, by Bob Dickinson, president and CEO of Carnival Cruise Lines, and Andy Vladimir, marketing professor at Florida International University. The second edition was written in 2006, and published in 2008. From page 82:

 

"While their salaries are nominal, their tips can be substantial--waiters on the three major lines average around $3,000 per month tax free, and as all of their meals, accommodations, and medical expenses are provided, that's money they can take home." By the way, you'll note that is average and takes into account those who tip little or nothing, those who tip the recommended amount and those who tip extra.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable!

 

yep that makes it all of $36,000 per year. While they don't have expenses on the ship most have families that cost as much as you and mine does. You will notice that most of the Eastern Europeans who were on the ships are mostly gone. This is a result of two things really, 1. their economies have improved and 2. the drop in the value of the dollar which makes it too expensive for them to work on the ships.

While its true that it is an average based upon generally US nationals who traditionally made up 75% or more of the cruising public, with the influx of other nationals cruising either not used to tipping(UK-the next largest group) or others culturally opposed to it(Australia), it has become a big problem. Its why you are seeing changes to opt out(as opposed to opt in) and mandatory service charges or adding into the fare completely (IMO).

 

This doesn't make those people bad just different. The bad ones are the one who know better but refuse for some inane reason not to tip. I don't blame someone from removing a tip when they have a problem but most of these are made up, blown out of proportion or not the fault of the people who they are removing/not tipping. i.e. complaints about late ships or not liking the food.

[BonnieVA]

yep that makes it all of $36,000 per year.

 

Sure, if they worked 12 months/year. But X crew work 6 months on/2 months off so they only work about 10 months/year which only = about $30k/year!

[bobbyleduck]

I think it is also time for people to read the book Cruise Confidential, by Brian David Bruns, where you will get a fair amount of enlightenment about the behind the scenes workings of the cruise industry. One of the most important things you'll learn is that most, as in way most, of these people are single. Let me repeat that for those who tipped so much that they don't have enough money left to pay attention. They are single, and if they aren't single, then, based upon their extra-curricular activities they most certainly should be single. Second, we're talking about $3,000 TAX FREE per month, and after their most expensive costs, such as food, housing and medical care have been provide. Also, they have very little need for a car, if they had need of a car in their homeland, because they are away from home most of the year.

 

You are also under the misconception that this is a very difficult job, because you have no interest in doing it. For most of these people, this work is as easy or easier than the alternative in their homeland, and for pay that is equally unheard of. You should try being a maid at a hotel or motel in a place like Newport, Oregon, where you'd be scraping by at $1,500 a month, before taxes, if you were actually able to get full-time work for the whole year. And, that's without medical insurance or most other benefits.

 

Finally, even if all of that wasn't enough, too many of you believe that $3,000 TAX FREE per month isn't much money. My wife is a Registered Nurse, working in an alzheimer's care facility and her take home pay, before we pay for food, housing, medical care and automobile expenses is only 80 percent of that $3,000 amount. I am a full-time volunteer financial educator with Consumer Credit Counseling Service. We live, save, travel, pay our bills and contribute to the welfare of my dear mother-in-law, on just $2,400 a month. Oh, and I believe we are very blessed. By the way, that is $28,800 a year for those who believe that $30,000 with two months of vacation, isn't enough.

 

Those of you who believe it is your obligation to tell others, not only how much they should tip, but how they should feel about it, I would implore you to lighten up. It is nobody's business how much or why people tip. It is nobody's business to try to educate those who because of culture or any other reason choose to tip differently than you.

 

Finally:

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable!

[smeyer418]

I think it is also time for people to read the book Cruise Confidential, by Brian David Bruns, where you will get a fair amount of enlightenment about the behind the scenes workings of the cruise industry. One of the most important things you'll learn is that most, as in way most, of these people are single. Let me repeat that for those who tipped so much that they don't have enough money left to pay attention. They are single, and if they aren't single, then, based upon their extra-curricular activities they most certainly should be single. Second, we're talking about $3,000 TAX FREE per month, and after their most expensive costs, such as food, housing and medical care have been provide. Also, they have very little need for a car, if they had need of a car in their homeland, because they are away from home most of the year.

 

You are also under the misconception that this is a very difficult job, because you have no interest in doing it. For most of these people, this work is as easy or easier than the alternative in their homeland, and for pay that is equally unheard of. You should try being a maid at a hotel or motel in a place like Newport, Oregon, where you'd be scraping by at $1,500 a month, before taxes, if you were actually able to get full-time work for the whole year. And, that's without medical insurance or most other benefits.

 

Finally, even if all of that wasn't enough, too many of you believe that $3,000 TAX FREE per month isn't much money. My wife is a Registered Nurse, working in an alzheimer's care facility and her take home pay, before we pay for food, housing, medical care and automobile expenses is only 80 percent of that $3,000 amount. I am a full-time volunteer financial educator with Consumer Credit Counseling Service. We live, save, travel, pay our bills and contribute to the welfare of my dear mother-in-law, on just $2,400 a month. Oh, and I believe we are very blessed. By the way, that is $28,800 a year for those who believe that $30,000 with two months of vacation, isn't enough.

 

Those of you who believe it is your obligation to tell others, not only how much they should tip, but how they should feel about it, I would implore you to lighten up. It is nobody's business how much or why people tip. It is nobody's business to try to educate those who because of culture or any other reason choose to tip differently than you.

 

Finally:

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable!

 

you need a better Union. Most do have to pay taxes in their home country.

 

so is your point that you shouldn't tip?

[bobbyleduck]

you need a better Union. Most do have to pay taxes in their home country.

 

so is your point that you shouldn't tip?

 

No, not at all. My point was in the final paragraph:

 

"Those of you who believe it is your obligation to tell others, not only how much they should tip, but how they should feel about it, I would implore you to lighten up. It is nobody's business how much or why people tip. It is nobody's business to try to educate those who because of culture or any other reason choose to tip differently than you."

 

Regarding the "union" remark, I believe you missed the part where I said, "I believe we are very blessed," but then I guess most people can't save $1,000 per month, send $400 per month to a sweet Mother-in-law, own their home free and clear, and be debt free, with only $2,400 of net income. That, of course, is why I can teach people about money management and am able to do it as a volunteer.

 

As for your comment about taxes, that isn't what Bob Dickinson, president and CEO of Carnival Cruise Lines said. I think he may have a better understanding about that sort of thing than the rest of us.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable!

[smeyer418]

from another thread by the author of a book on cruising who worked as a waiter

 

When I worked in the dining room for Carnival Cruise Lines in 2003-2004-ish, 100% of the auto-tips went to the appropriate people. No one I ever met ever suspected or heard rumor of Carnival taking a cut, or anything of that nature. Waiters did not get any other salary, barring some $70 a month or whatever it was. Yes, food and housing was free, and emergency medical care (sometimes). Some crew had flights paid for, too, but waiters did not unless the company transferred you mid-contract.

 

I quite agree that guests come up with all sorts of excuses to not tip, and not trusting the auto-tips was the most common. Usually it meant they didn't want to pay full gratuity. I personally had at least one month wherein I brought in less than $200 for 31 days of work.

 

That was six or seven years ago. I make no claims about nowadays, nor any other cruise line. That was before time clocks were allowed on ships, I might add.

 

 

Thanks, I'll assume for a minute that you still have some friends aboard the ships and that they keep in contact with you. I'll further assume that if Carnival or any other cruise line started to take a cut, someone would have written you or we would have seen a complaint somewhere other than some inane passenger looking for an excuse not to tip.

 

Thanks again for your response. The only problem is of course the people who don't want to tip will ignore the "truth" for a truth of their own that justifies their non-tipping.

 

Sid

 

PS in many countries Taxes are paid through what are known as consumption taxes(value added taxes-sales) or real estate taxes or other direct taxes not necessarily on income. Florida has no income tax for any individual. So while they may not pay income taxes- they do pay taxes other ways. its not a free ride.

[bobbyleduck]

Sid

 

PS in many countries Taxes are paid through what are known as consumption taxes(value added taxes-sales) or real estate taxes or other direct taxes not necessarily on income. Florida has no income tax for any individual. So while they may not pay income taxes- they do pay taxes other ways. its not a free ride.

 

I've been to some of those countries, and even to Florida. How I would love it if Oregon taxed consumption, rather than income, which is taxed at 9 percent, and any earnings on investment and savings are also taxed. How much consumption tax do you have to pay when you are only home for two months a year, at most, and you don't have to buy food, housing, gasoline or medical expenses for the rest of the year?

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable?

[smeyer418]

I've been to some of those countries, and even to Florida. How I would love it if Oregon taxed consumption, rather than income, which is taxed at 9 percent, and any earnings on investment and savings are also taxed. How much consumption tax do you have to pay when you are only home for two months a year, at most, and you don't have to buy food, housing, gasoline or medical expenses for the rest of the year?

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable?

They also pay personal property taxes in Florida. A tax on the value of the property. There is no free lunch. They get you coming or going. But paying taxes is the price you pay for schools, police, roads etc. You want everyone to pay their fair share. Their family doesn't have to pay all those things? and you should read what the author says about on board medical care. In any case I don't encourage people to remove the tip either or to not tip. I understand that the employees work hard and make money. I just don't count theirs and I don't count my lawyers my doctors or any other person I pay money either. Its part of the cost of cruising.

 

I also don't necessarily believe what the president of a cruise line says either. After all didn't they try to impose retroactively fuel surcharges a couple of years ago and I am sure they would say they had the right to do that-something which the AG from Florida disagreed with.

[bobbyleduck]

They also pay personal property taxes in Florida. A tax on the value of the property. I don't encourage people to remove the tip either or to not tip.

 

We have them in Oregon as well, and we pay them every November 15th.

 

As for tipping, I don't do either of those things, and I don't try to guilt people into paying tips as well.

 

It is none of my business whether or not people tip, how much they tip or why they tip. But, every time someone tries to guilt people into paying the recommended amount or paying extra, by saying how overworked, underpaid and deserving the recipients are, then I'm going to offer the other side of the story just as a counterbalance.

 

One more thing: Enjoy your cruise aboard Infinity next month. We had a great time on our Panama Canal cruise aboard Infinity. There were nine of us, and we had such a wonderful experience that we actually tipped extra, but you didn't hear that from me.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

 

P.S. Information is good, and good information is invaluable!

[Denny01]

Well, so much for this thread being a low-key discussion on tipping and keeping on subject.

 

Maybe I'm not reading all the posts fully, but I didn't see any post telling peoople how much to tip extra and how to feel about this subject. It's occured on other similar threads, but not here. Up to now, this has been a good discussion.

 

And by the way, what the 'Cruise Confidental' reference to tax-free is to the pay cruise line provides directly to the worker - it is not docked for taxes. So from the company's point, it's all tax-free, which it is. But, many countries do tax income made by citizens working outside the country, as in working on Cruise Ships. Not all, and many find a way of getting by it, but many must pay taxes on out-of-country income. As does the US in many cases.

 

Denny

[smeyer418]

Well, so much for this thread being a low-key discussion on tipping and keeping on subject.

 

Maybe I'm not reading all the posts fully, but I didn't see any post telling peoople how much to tip extra and how to feel about this subject. It's occured on other similar threads, but not here. Up to now, this has been a good discussion.

 

And by the way, what the 'Cruise Confidental' reference to tax-free is to the pay cruise line provides directly to the worker - it is not docked for taxes. So from the company's point, it's all tax-free, which it is. But, many countries do tax income made by citizens working outside the country, as in working on Cruise Ships. Not all, and many find a way of getting by it, but many must pay taxes on out-of-country income. As does the US in many cases.

 

Denny

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

I could tell you how withholding came about in the US but that is OT and boring(blame it on Macy's).

 

To some extent I do encourage people to tip or at least be knowledgeable about how it actually works on a cruise ship. I see so much mis-information or outright false hoods that I do respond pretty emphatically about it.

 

I understand its not some people's cultures to tip. But then again some people feel a compulsion about telling people what they should wear and I think tipping should at least get equal billing.

 

For the most part as the author points out some people look for excuses not to tip and I won't help them.