Virus on Jade Jan-Feb '10+

[Stillfloatin']

This is my opinion...

 

I think you're 100% right for 99% of cruises. I believe that basically every cruise has an element of gastro issues. For the most part they are kept under control, and are caused by the generally accepted reasons.

1) sick passengers bringing it on (viral)

2) eating contaminated (bacterial) food and water on shore...AND on the ship (I think the quality of food preparation on the ship is a forgotten factor sometimes). The doctors I've spoken too upon coming home are suggesting I had a form of food poisoning from food on the ship and not Noro.

So most of the time I think you're right, it's a small element and is well managed by the cruise staff.

 

Where my opinion differs is when the sickness manages to spread across cruises, and then multiplies. To me that's an issue of cleanliness. Where there was contamination from a prior cruise that was not erradicated. For example the cruise I was on had (given NCL's reported numbers) about a 2.5 times greater number of cases than the prior cruise...I don't believe that's because 2.5 times as many sick passengers boarded with me on the 24th. I don't think it's because 2.5 times as many people ate bad food in barcelona before boarding. I also don't think that's because 2.5 times fewer passengers sanitized and mantained a regimen of good hygene. etc. etc.

 

To me it says the cruise staff did not manage to erradicate the contamination, that the cleaning was not good enough.

 

 

So I think there's a sick element to every cruise, with people bringing it on, and people picking it up in ports, however I believe the determining factor between the sickness being a small scale and manageable event vs an outbreak to the extent we saw on the Jade, is the quality, effectiveness and priority given to the cleaning efforts on board.

 

Well stated.

[PangeanSir]

Well stated.

 

MKTT may have stated it well, but their analysis fails to take into account the number of passengers doing back to back cruises on the Jade through the winter months, thereby making 21 day cruises out of the alternating 9 and 12 day itineraries. There simply wasn't an opportunity to break the cycle of transmission from passenger to passenger. Noro is incredibly contagious by contact.

 

I've been on several ships (hey maybe I'm typhoid mary????) that have had noro outbreaks. I've had it myself, and its not much fun, but the cleaning and sanitizing and prevention methods that were described as happening on the Jade sound like standard operating procedure in the industry. The fact that the official rates of infection dropped from 12% to 3% on the following cruise (and from recent reports sounds as if it is now at a negligible level) is a testament to the effectiveness of the crew's efforts.

 

As I stated on another thread, I've been following these threads and reports closely. I and my family will be on the Jade in a week's time. We'll probably be bringing on a few clorox wipes (for the TV remotes, etc.), but the earlier outbreak won't deter us from looking forward to a great cruise.

 

P.

[mktt]

Pangean

I hope you have an amazing and healthy cruise.

 

I too wondered about back to back cruisers. I couldn't find anything on this board, but before our flight to Barcelona though my mind was put at ease by this post on the Celebrity board that I found with regard to a code red on the equinox last month. I had assumed that NCL would take the same precautions as other lines.

 

 

 

"Back to back cruisers will be required to disembark tomorrow and will have a tour until at least 2:00pm while the ship is cleaned by an outside agency. I don't expect embarkation to start until after that time.

 

We believe that we are fully recovered and life seems to be back to normal for most passengers.

 

Good luck to the next cruisers."

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=22688729&postcount=29

[PangeanSir]

Pangean

I hope you have an amazing and healthy cruise.

 

I too wondered about back to back cruisers. I couldn't find anything on this board, but before our flight to Barcelona though my mind was put at ease by this post on the Celebrity board that I found with regard to a code red on the equinox last month. I had assumed that NCL would take the same precautions as other lines.

 

 

 

"Back to back cruisers will be required to disembark tomorrow and will have a tour until at least 2:00pm while the ship is cleaned by an outside agency. I don't expect embarkation to start until after that time.

 

We believe that we are fully recovered and life seems to be back to normal for most passengers.

 

Good luck to the next cruisers."

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=22688729&postcount=29

 

I am truly glad that you are recovered. As I may have mentioned, I've had Noro before (on an NCL ship no less) and I've been on at least 3 ships that have gone to code red procedures either on our cruise or the cruise immediately before it (not NCL ships). I doubt it will give you any consolation, but the code red measures on the Jewel in '06 were the most systematic of any of those cruises.

 

Like you, I spend a lot of time on research. Indeed, I think we've been planning the land tour part of our upcoming trip for 18 months (we're doing 6 days post cruise driving through the South of France then 3 days wandering around Paris). The topic of my daughter's award-winning speech in school was her dad's 35 page "master itinerary".

 

Unfortunately, I don't think having the overlapping back to back passengers get off the ship for a few hours can be effective. The back to back passengers who have already been exposed, but are still asymptomatic come right back on after the cleansing. Noro is one nasty customer and all it takes is a few to spread it again on every railing and elevator button on the ship.

 

The fact that the reported incidence has gone from 12 to 3 per cent to negligible over three cruises gives me some comfort. And yes, I know that the actual rate would be much higher than the official rate since the official rate is just those passengers who report to the medical officer and doesn't include many, many others who hole up in their cabin to 'ride out the storm'.

 

Wishing you happy (and healthy) travels,

 

P.

[mktt]

 

The fact that the reported incidence has gone from 12 to 3 per cent to negligible over three cruises gives me some comfort. And yes, I know that the actual rate would be much higher than the official rate since the official rate is just those passengers who report to the medical officer and doesn't include many, many others who hole up in their cabin to 'ride out the storm'.

 

Wishing you happy (and healthy) travels,

 

P.

 

If I were in your shoes the paragraph I quoted would be very reassuring.

At the risk of sounding self absorbed and self important I wonder if our cruise outbreak may have provided the impetus for the ship to do more than just "the usual SOP" and put some much needed extra effort into fighting the gastro bugs on board.

 

At this point in the cycle I'd bet you only get room service and not powdered gatorade metaclopramide and loperamide delivered to your room

 

My beef and the main reason I'm having a hard time walking away from this issue and the NCL board as a whole, is that with proper attention the issue would have finished with the Dec 20 holiday sailing but instead it kept escalating. I also think an outside agency should have brought in like they do Stateside. It's unfair to the housekeeping staff, and unfair to the passengers, to expect the housekeeping staff to be qualified special needs cleaners, on top of being cabin stewards.

 

In any event, thanks for the kind words, we'll probably stick to land based vacations in Europe for now (although we might reconsider once SHIPSAN is implemented).

 

Happy sailing.

[insidecabin]

If you asume and act as if Noro is on the ship even if it might not be you have a better chance of not getting yourself ill.

 

You never know when an outbreak will occur and people can be symptom free for a couple of days, be ill for 3-4 days with symptoms and still be contagous for 3days+ after up to 2 weeks has been reported.

 

Noro primary transmision on a cruise ships is by contact and ingestion by mouth. So that is contact with any surface anywhere that is contaminated.

 

Don't stick anything that could be contaminated in/near your own mouth and you are reducing your chances of getting sick a lot.

 

Thats your own hands unless very clean, so don't handle anything then touch food or your face.

 

Many people that get sick are just not being carefull enough especialy once it is know to be active, ever scratched you nose or wiped our mouth, easy to just make that one mistake after pressing a lift button hand rail, chair etc.

 

You have to rely on the ship to prevent food/cutlery contamination from crew.

 

The secondary contamination route is airborne when people are actively sick, so that is airosols drops from vomit and from toilets(less so on ships with vacuum systems). This is a much bigger risk since it is out of your control and for ill people this can come on suddenly giving little chance to "contain" the output.

 

People that are in situ during an active case should take extra precautions(to avoid spreading) for 3 days since they are potential carriers no matter how carefull they are they may allready be sick.

 

This is why it is so important to isolate noro cases so if you know people are sick and not reporting, grass them up so at least their cabin gets a clean for the next guests.

 

Judging by the numbers that still don't wash their hands leaving the bathroom Noro is not the only thing to worry about, might not make you sick but the door haddle will not be clean.

 

The ships still need to do all they can to keep the virus at bay but be mindfull of what you can do to protect yourself.

[burlingtoncruiser]

Judging by the numbers that still don't wash their hands leaving the bathroom Noro is not the only thing to worry about, might not make you sick but the door haddle will not be clean.

my husband used bathrooms around the ship and did tell me that not very many people washed at all after using the facilities :eek: - yuk and very scary, especially since there was so much advertising the fact that we should wash, wash, wash.

[burlingtoncruiser]

oops -double post -

[Gekko]

Haven't tried that, but how can antibiotics work against a virus type of disease?

 

....

 

An antibiotic may be effective against secondary infections (bacterial secondary to the viral when the immune system is weakened or compromised) if taken for the full course (usually 7-10 days). An antiviral may be pre-emptive for some viruses; for other viruses, taking an antiviral in advance is not effective. I am not certain how the antiviral could be specific without knowing the causative agent. Anyway, hope it worked.

[funwithfriends]

Just got off the Jade. It has been having a problem prior to January with two types of infectious viruses. We were not notified until we were on board. They have had 3 general cleanings when the ship is in Barcelona.. The ship is constantly being scrubbed and sprayed while at sea and in ports, but the virus is still going strong and many passengers took ill. (some people got sick on bus tours, in the shopping arcade of the ship, and in the public areas) so no area of the ship is safe. The captain urges passengers to contact Medical, but many of the sick do not do so because they do not want to be quarantined and miss ports of call. Being a back to back passenger, mid cruise I was offered to get off at Barcelona and get a cruise credit certificate equal to the value of the rest of my cruise BUT there are no provisions for the costly airline flight change and transfer fees. Some ports are making it difficult for ships clearance for passengers to disembark because of the illness. Before you sail on the Jade, I suggest that you contact NCL otherwise be prepared to be sanitized to death and possibly get the infectious virus anyway.

Our first cruise ever is going to be with NCL Jade on May 2nd. Don't you think it will be cleared up by then? Can you recommend any excursions? I would like to take them with a outside tour group.

[hamrag]

Our first cruise ever is going to be with NCL Jade on May 2nd. Don't you think it will be cleared up by then? Can you recommend any excursions? I would like to take them with a outside tour group.

 

Some on the current Jade cruise have reported that it is already cleaned up inasmuch as passengers are now able to self-serve in the buffet. We were on the 5 Feb sailing, and everything (absolutely everything) was served by staff.

 

I think NCL are to be commended for getting this under control, considering that it is medically recognised that Jan/Feb are the very high risk months for Noro in Europe.

[Stillfloatin']

I would be interested in any recent returning cruiser's comments on the current condition on board the Jade. Does the virus seem to be gone?

[newmexicoNita]

I would be interested in any recent returning cruiser's comments on the current condition on board the Jade. Does the virus seem to be gone?

 

It appears it is gone, at least for now.

 

Nita

[AuntieBarb]

It seems that this blog is being overtaken by persons more interested in the comedy show and "cheerleaders" for NCL. This was started with the intent to inform future passengers of the Jade about the virus infection that has been part of the ship for the past few months. When I was planning for my cruise I did not see any post about the health problem aboard the Jade nor did NCL inform me of the risks involved until I was on board. I wish I would have known sooner. Spending that amount of money to get sick and missing many ports of call is not my idea of a vacation. The nurse that saw me did not have a name for what I had. I was quarantined to my cabin anyway. When we boarded the ship we were told that the preventive measures would be for a few days. Then a few days later we were told only 11% of the passengers were sick. The next day we were told 12% were sick. Were those figures for the day or the entire cruise?

If you were not on the cruise to see cabins being sanitized by the masked stewards, public areas being closed so they could be cleaned or people asking about the health of other passengers please refrain from criticizing serious posts. You do have a right to post as you have stated. But not to harass others. You know who you are. Let us get serious and concentrate on avoiding future healthy passengers from being subject to boarding an unhealthy ship. There is always a chance of people getting sick. But since this illness has been on the Jade for months people should have the choice of boarding or not prior to their flight overseas.

 

Placing a slanderous slant on all this is just as disturbing as those you criticize. Noro does not discriminate against cruise lines and it doesn't just present its ugly self without being brought on board.

 

I was more worried there might be a regional issue causing Noro to be such a pest for the duration reported. NCL doesn't take this stuff lightly. Bottom line it affects their bottom line! I'd fault passengers who are sick and don't stay in quarantine, before I'd throw accusations that NCL fails to clean up!

 

ETA: I'm about to board the Jade in 3 days. Oooh shiver me timbers. Should I cancel? Not!

[BikerAl]

Placing a slanderous slant on all this is just as disturbing as those you criticize. Noro does not discriminate against cruise lines and it doesn't just present its ugly self without being brought on board.

 

I was more worried there might be a regional issue causing Noro to be such a pest for the duration reported. NCL doesn't take this stuff lightly. Bottom line it affects their bottom line! I'd fault passengers who are sick and don't stay in quarantine, before I'd throw accusations that NCL fails to clean up!

 

ETA: I'm about to board the Jade in 3 days. Oooh shiver me timbers. Should I cancel? Not!

 

Hope you guys have a great cruise...bon voyage.

 

Al

[MRDIAL]

Placing a slanderous slant on all this is just as disturbing as those you criticize. Noro does not discriminate against cruise lines and it doesn't just present its ugly self without being brought on board.

 

I was more worried there might be a regional issue causing Noro to be such a pest for the duration reported. NCL doesn't take this stuff lightly. Bottom line it affects their bottom line! I'd fault passengers who are sick and don't stay in quarantine, before I'd throw accusations that NCL fails to clean up!

 

ETA: I'm about to board the Jade in 3 days. Oooh shiver me timbers. Should I cancel? Not!

 

Will be VERY INTERESTED to hear your comments about your cruise on the Jade as this will be my first NCL. Have a great time and thanks in advance! :)

[AuntieBarb]

Hope you guys have a great cruise...bon voyage.

 

Al

 

Thanks, Al !! Flying out today. I am so anxious with anticipation! :D

[burlingtoncruiser]

Originally Posted by AuntieBarb

Placing a slanderous slant on all this is just as disturbing as those you criticize. Noro does not discriminate against cruise lines and it doesn't just present its ugly self without being brought on board.

 

I was more worried there might be a regional issue causing Noro to be such a pest for the duration reported. NCL doesn't take this stuff lightly. Bottom line it affects their bottom line! I'd fault passengers who are sick and don't stay in quarantine, before I'd throw accusations that NCL fails to clean up!

 

ETA: I'm about to board the Jade in 3 days. Oooh shiver me timbers. Should I cancel? Not!

People that were complaining were not complaining about the virus, as to how NCL handled it - they were NOT forthcoming in letting the pax know what was happening when we were delayed getting off the ship 3 hours in Athens and 6 hours in Alexandria because authorities deemed the Jade as quarantined. If you had been there, it was most annoying to be brushed off and told to 'back to our staterooms and we would be called when we could go ashore'.....meanwhile we had been up a 5 am to be off the ship at 6:30 - got off at 12:30 - That was the reason so many people were upset..... there is much more said about this in previous posts - The virus did not anger us - Attitude did.

I am not trying to start this thread up again - just stating what people complained about - we were there and many many people were upset by the secretiveness and evasiveness.

 

Those travelling now - I wish you a great cruise and fantastic weather - enjoy!

 

good bye - I am not coming back to NCL, - I prefer to be treated with a little more respect.....