Cruise fare / Gratuities for Infants/Toddlers

[mikesteg]

...

[dalitos]

So you are sayiny that even though the child is receiving probably more service than an adult that they should have a reduced tip. I don't think so! I have seen the mess in many restraunts that a toddler makes.

 

The main reasons why I think gratuities for children/infants (C/I) should be less:

1) C/I require much less service than adults do. Yes, they make more of a mess, that's for sure. But service overall much less (less cooking complicated entrees, less serving, less washing dishes, less requirments and expectations).

2) When you do things as a familly there is usually a consideration on number of people per family.. that's why C/I pay less on many attractions of all kinds, on flights, etc. They will take the same seat as an adult, but since you usually already have 2 adults paying full fare, then C/I pay less. I think this helps a lot of families to afford to do things as a family (from an outing by your house to a full vacation), and even though there is some loss by the company providing discounts, there are also big gains.

[beachchick]

The main reasons why I think gratuities for children/infants (C/I) should be less:

1) C/I require much less service than adults do. Yes, they make more of a mess, that's for sure. But service overall much less (less cooking complicated entrees, less serving, less washing dishes, less requirments and expectations).

2) When you do things as a familly there is usually a consideration on number of people per family.. that's why C/I pay less on many attractions of all kinds, on flights, etc. They will take the same seat as an adult, but since you usually already have 2 adults paying full fare, then C/I pay less. I think this helps a lot of families to afford to do things as a family (from an outing by your house to a full vacation), and even though there is some loss by the company providing discounts, there are also big gains.

 

Why I disagree:

 

1. Children do not generally require less service overall. How many times have parents mentioned how their "extremely picky eaters" required special items to be made or how the cooking and serving staff have made special accomodations for them (everything from pureeing food to cooking dishes to order with specifications different from the standard preparation). What child needs less attention by the stateroom stewards? Not even infants because they have beds to be made and use towels and have diapers or children who sleep in pullmans or sofa beds, which are generally made and unmade every day. There are many kinds of activities specifically for children and families with children; all require effort on the part of the crew (and cruise line).

 

2. Sure, there's a budget to consider, but families are hardly alone in this. When we had our daughter, we didn't expect her to be subsidized by other travelers/patrons--with the exception of public education, which we are happy to support now, even though she is an adult; we believe strongly that public education deserves more support, not less. If we couldn't afford something for all of us, then we didn't do it. Of course, we certainly never turned down reduced fares/prices! We're not (usually) idiots. But we also never expected or insisted on it and we never assumed that we should tip less in a tipping situation. BTW, reduced fares for children on flights are pretty much a thing of the past on most airlines. There are still "lap babies" (under 2) who do not require a seat and thus fly free, but it's rare to find a reduced fare for children. (I know this because we have a now 16 month old granddaughter, who we and her mother have paid full fare for to fly down to visit. This last time, airfares were so high that she flew as a lap baby because it was too expensive to buy two seats for the third time in a year. We really weighed this carefully because lap babies are not as safe as babies in their own seat with the appropriate car seat installed.)

 

As to the argument that there are usually already two fully paying adults, my question is "so what"? It's not my responsibility to subsidize a large family's vacation by paying higher fares/prices so they can pay less or go free. When you have a child or more than one, you take the responsibility of taking care of and paying for them. And what will you do for single parents? After all, they've only paid the one full fare. Should their be some sort of sliding scale? I suppose, actually, that it does work out that way with cruising because if two adults have paid full fares, then the children will pay the reduced 3rd/4th, etc. fares anyway, but a single parent would have to pay the full 2nd passenger fare for his or her child with additional children being charged the reduced rate.

 

The idea that two adults have paid and therefore, their children should be free or pay much less is akin to those who think it's okay to pay for one soda package and share it with the whole family, IMO. Fair is fair.

 

 

I do agree that the cruise lines should not expect us, all of us, to pay the crew's wages in the form of so-called "tips." I also have no intention of telling any parent who opts to reduce tips for their children that they are "wrong" or "bad" or anything else. I do not think less of them. It is their decision. That I don't agree with it is a personal opinion and not a value judgment on them as parents or as people.

 

beachchick

[dalitos]

2. If we couldn't afford something for all of us, then we didn't do it.

 

Well, of course.

 

Of course, we certainly never turned down reduced fares/prices! We're not (usually) idiots. But we also never expected or insisted on it and we never assumed that we should tip less in a tipping situation.

 

It is nice to have the reduced fares, of course. And I'm not talking about expecting and much less insisting. Just wondering and asking around.

 

 

BTW, reduced fares for children on flights are pretty much a thing of the past on most airlines.

 

Really? I don't know about domestic US flights, but most international flights (except very reduced fares) have discounts for children ranging from 25-33%, I work for an airline and I'm sure of what I'm saying.

 

As to the argument that there are usually already two fully paying adults, my question is "so what"? It's not my responsibility to subsidize a large family's vacation by paying higher fares/prices so they can pay less or go free.

 

Of course it is not your responsability, nor enyone else's. It's just a perk / consideration many companies offer.

 

The idea that two adults have paid and therefore, their children should be free or pay much less is akin to those who think it's okay to pay for one soda package and share it with the whole family, IMO. Fair is fair.

 

This is not the same at all, you are comparing abusing the rules (getting one package and sharing it with everyone), with taking advantage of a perk offered to you.

[Britchic4]

Just to add to the mix.

As had already been said,there are cultural expectations at play here. In the US I understand waiters expect to earn most of their pay from gratuities, therefore a diner feels very much obliged to leave a gratuity regardless of the level of service. In the UK & most of Europe waiters are paid at a better level and therefore gratuities, while of course desired by the waiter, are just that - a voluntary tip for good service. In the UK I would generally tip about 10% in a restaurant, but if I had been given bad service I would have no hesitation in not leaving a tip. The very idea that I would tip for bad service, or that I MUST give a tip even for standard service, is completely alien to me. That's a cultural difference I know.

P & O pay their staff a decent (although of course still low) wage and while they do still recommend a gratuity amount and I'm sure most people do pay it, there is certainly no feeling that you MUST pay it. Only adults are recommended by P & O to pay gratuities. However I think that in the UK we are paying a lot more for our cruises so there is a trade off. Cruising is still a luxury here.

Because of this cultural difference, the idea that I MUST pay a gratuity so that a member of staff gets paid is also completely alien to me. This seems a ridiculous and indeed dishonourable system on the part of the cruise lines.

[mjkacmom]

Really? I don't know about domestic US flights, but most international flights (except very reduced fares) have discounts for children ranging from 25-33%, I work for an airline and I'm sure of what I'm saying.

 

 

I've flown with my children (5 of them) many times, and have never paid more for my ticket than for theirs. Of course, they're not "full price" tickets, which can be over $1000. I paid the same for a 1 year old that I paid for myself on domestic flights here.

[imsulin]

dalitos - you've stated that you don't know much about US domestic fares, and it's very clear that you don't. A child under two pays no fare - meaning no seat is assigned - and the child must be held on an adult's lap for the duration of the flight. A child two or older pays the same full-fare as an adult, and gets an assigned seat. I've not seen any kind of discounting for children aged two or older on ANY US domestic flights. When parents come to the airport with a child under two, and who has not paid for a seat, they must produce a birth certificate or Passport to prove that the child us under two years old. I've seen this happen a few times.

[quincytoo]

dalitos - you've stated that you don't know much about US domestic fares, and it's very clear that you don't. A child under two pays no fare - meaning no seat is assigned - and the child must be held on an adult's lap for the duration of the flight. A child two or older pays the same full-fare as an adult, and gets an assigned seat. I've not seen any kind of discounting for children aged two or older on ANY US domestic flights. When parents come to the airport with a child under two, and who has not paid for a seat, they must produce a birth certificate or Passport to prove that the child us under two years old. I've seen this happen a few times.

 

We travel as a family quite a bit and here in Canada our children were paying full price since they were two. I guess that is why I think they should be paying full auto tips or third/fourth person fares but not discounted fares as childrensince we are so used to paying ful price for them.

[imsulin]

We travel as a family quite a bit and here in Canada our children were paying full price since they were two. I guess that is why I think they should be paying full auto tips or third/fourth person fares but not discounted fares as childrensince we are so used to paying ful price for them.

 

Exactly. Adults OR children who get the 3rd/4th passenger rates on cruises should still pay the full recommended tip amount. Apparently Canada has the same "two or over" deal concerning airfare. It's full fare. This last summer was the first time DD and SIL had to pay full-fare air for their 2 1/2 year old (lots of groans and sighs!).

[beachchick]

It is nice to have the reduced fares, of course. And I'm not talking about expecting and much less insisting. Just wondering and asking around.

 

I was responding to your statement about why you believe that tips for infants/children should be less and how you related it to that fact that there are often discounts for infants/children.

 

Really? I don't know about domestic US flights, but most international flights (except very reduced fares) have discounts for children ranging from 25-33%, I work for an airline and I'm sure of what I'm saying.

 

On domestic flights, infants/children do not fly at reduced fares. OTOH, on international flights, infants (children under 2) are required by most airlines to have a paid seat. There are no options on those flights for "lap babies." I'm sure that's why they sometimes offer reduced fares for those flights only.

 

Of course it is not your responsability, nor enyone else's. It's just a perk / consideration many companies offer.

 

But those perks are sometimes (maybe usually) offered by raising the overall fare for adults. So, that consideration or perk isn't truly "free."

 

This is not the same at all, you are comparing abusing the rules (getting one package and sharing it with everyone), with taking advantage of a perk offered to you.

 

No, I'm comparing a state of mind: The assumption that infants/children should pay less is the same kind of thought process as "We'll buy only one soda package, but share it among everyone because soda is cheap to make." It's not the same kind of act, but it is a similar kind of belief.

 

Clearly there are areas where we disagree. I will reiterate that I do not think less of you or any parent who decides to tip less for their young children. I don't think it's right, but that is my opinion.

 

dalitos - you've stated that you don't know much about US domestic fares, and it's very clear that you don't. A child under two pays no fare - meaning no seat is assigned - and the child must be held on an adult's lap for the duration of the flight. A child two or older pays the same full-fare as an adult, and gets an assigned seat. I've not seen any kind of discounting for children aged two or older on ANY US domestic flights. When parents come to the airport with a child under two, and who has not paid for a seat, they must produce a birth certificate or Passport to prove that the child us under two years old. I've seen this happen a few times.

 

Unless the parents/adults want to have their under 2 child in a seat. Then the fare is exactly the same as for adults. It is safer, but sure can get costly! We too have not seen discounting for children 2 and older on any domestic flights.

 

beachchick

[sas80]

Clearly there are areas where we disagree. I will reiterate that I do not think less of you or any parent who decides to tip less for their young children. I don't think it's right, but that is my opinion.

 

 

 

Unless the parents/adults want to have their under 2 child in a seat. Then the fare is exactly the same as for adults. It is safer, but sure can get costly! We too have not seen discounting for children 2 and older on any domestic flights.

 

beachchick

 

THAT is one of the sweetest, most respectful things I have ever seen posted on these boards. (seriously)

[dalitos]

beachchick, for some reason I can't quote your whole message so I will just reply w/o quotes.

It is really too bad that airlines in the US/Canada are not offering child discounts for domestic anymore, I think at some point they were? I think they still do for international sectors, as well as most other airlines around the world do.

I still think getting the soda package for a group doesn't compare with hoping for a C/I discount, or even taking the liberty to reduce tips for C/I. But as you said we have our different opinions and that's fine.

I think a lot of people that are used to C/I discounts in general, or as UK OP said have a different culture about tipping, 'struggle' with the idea of paying full gratuities for everybody and no matter what.

I appreciate everyone's respectful opinions and can certainly see other people's point of views, in many discussions and not just this one, regardless of what I may think.