Tipping For Spa Treatments

[chicagogal]

We have experienced the post-treatment hard sell on SS.

 

I have been known to resort to saying BEFORE the service that "I won't be buying any products, that I am here to relax and enjoy the massage, facial etc and want all of the time devoted to that." (I once had 10 minutes of my 50 min massage spent telling me why I need the various elemis (sp?) products (muscle soak, aromatherapy oil, body brush etc etc.))

[Tyler919]

I have been known to resort to saying BEFORE the service that "I won't be buying any products, that I am here to relax and enjoy the massage, facial etc and want all of the time devoted to that."

 

I hate that it's come to that, but I am adding your line to my arsenal. I think they have brought it on themselves. Thanks

[CruisinGerman]

All of this started a few years ago when Steiner took over the Silversea spa program. It didn't happen at the beginning.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[unfathomable]

This is awkward. On one hand you have a "no tipping" cruise line with the counter-cultural Steiner franchise embedded in it. And on the other, you have the (unstated) emotional blackmail of underpaid employees who are entirely dependent on commission and tips. One of the reasons for choosing SS is the feeling that the staff are "treated right" and not exploited, a feeling that we don't always get in warm-weather land-based resorts. As a mere guest, what can one do, other than either following the rubric and tipping (exceptionally) in the Spa, or avoiding the Spa altogether?

[CruisinGerman]

Silversea clearly advertises on its websites here in Europe that "ALL TIPING ONBOARD IS INCLUDED -- NONE IS EXPECTED".

 

It doesn't say "sorry, but we didn't mean the spa, because that is separate".

 

Website advertising is contractual here in Europe. If it's advertised on the website, it becomes part of the cruise contract.

 

Most of the spa therapists are usually from South Africa -- South Africa seems to produce some of the best spa therapists the world over, in my opinion. They are usually excellent.

 

The money they earn on the cruise ships (all lines, not just Silversea) is a lot more than they earn even in the top safari lodge, Johannesburg and Cape Town spas in South Africa.

 

I have been on Silversea cruises where the spa staff get off at Monte Carlo, Portofino, Barcelona, etc. and have a lovely day shopping.

 

I'm sorry, I just don't buy the "please tip us, we're so underpaid" plea.

 

As I and other posters have said in this thread, some of the $180 spa treatments charged onboard a Silversea ship cost 40 euros even in astronomically expensive cities such as Paris.

 

Tipping is a personal choice, but please don't let yourself be intimidated.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[lord of the seas]

I have just read the general information page in the Silversea 2010 Brochure,it says

 

GRATUITIES

All Hotel service gratuities are included in your cruise fare.

 

You can read this as not to include the beauty salon,but to some this may be a grey area.

 

Seasoned cruisers know that the beauty salon on any ship is a concession and that staff are expecting some sort of tip for providing a service.

Those guests that do not agree with the way the cruise line, have four choices.

1.Use the salon and tip for the service

2 Use the salon and do not tip for the service

3.Do not use the salon at all

4.Do not sail with the particular cruise line

 

I think options 1 and 3 might be the best way.

[CruisinGerman]

The UK Website (which by the way is the same website all the world over, except for cruise fares) says that ALL ONBOARD GRATUITIES ARE INCLUDED - NONE ARE EVER EXPECTED.

 

The spa and beauty salon are indeed "ONBOARD" the last time I looked.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

ALL-INCLUSIVE VALUE

ALL OCEAN-VIEW SUITE ACCOMMODATION —

MOST WITH PRIVATE VERANDA

The most expansive suites of their class at sea, each provides a panoramic view of ocean, shore and port, and an elegant ambience of unrivalled luxury.

COMPLIMENTARY BEVERAGES SERVED

THROUGHOUT THE SHIP

An extensive selection of fine wines, champagne, spirits, bottled water and soft drinks are yours to enjoy — all courtesy of Silversea.

IN-SUITE BEVERAGE CABINET STOCKED

WITH OUR COMPLIMENTS

Besides the chilled bottle of champagne that awaits you, every suite features a beverage cabinet stocked with your preferred assortment of complimentary beverages.

GRATUITIES INCLUDED

All onboard gratuities are included — none are ever expected.

OPEN-SEATING DINING

No assigned dining time, no assigned table. When, where and with whom you dine is up to you.

COMPLIMENTARY IN-SUITE DINING

AND 24-HOUR ROOM SERVICE

A formal dinner served course-by-course, a late-night snack, or a full breakfast delivered at your request — with no charge and no tipping.

COMPLIMENTARY SILVERSEA EXPERIENCE®

A shoreside event exclusively for Silversea guests on select voyages. Recent outings have included dinner in the desert in Namibia and a concert at the ruins of Ephesus.

A FULL SPECTRUM OF ENTERTAINMENT

AND ENRICHMENT

Production shows, classical concerts, and folkloric performances. Multi-tiered show lounge. Lectures by world affairs experts, renowned authors and destination specialists.

COMPLIMENTARY TRANSPORTATION INTO TOWN

Roundtrip transportation from the pier to the heart of town in most ports of call.

 

The above is legally binding and contractual under EU travel laws.

 

My inclination if I were asked to tip the spa therapist would be to state the above, and remind them that if they have a problem with this policy they should straighten it out with Silversea, and not intimidate the guests, and have Silversea change the published policy to clearly say "ALL ONBOARD GRATUITIES ARE INCLUDED -- NONE ARE EXPECTED (except in private concessions such as the Spa and Beauty Salon)."

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[lord of the seas]

Can we assume that you will take option number 2 on my list?

[CruisinGerman]

Yes, option 2 is mine.

 

Curiously enough, I had a spa treatment on Silversea a few months ago. And nobody seemed to suggest that I must leave a tip.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[TheFerret]

We pay a large premium to not have to worry about tipping and signing for things like drinks or, indeed, gratuities for spa treatments. I expect that the spa operator has built in to their price the fact that Silversea passengers do not expect to be hustled for a tip.

 

For instance, on other lines, even each bottle of water or soft drink comes with a line on the bill to fill in the tip amount and of course you feel obligated each and every time so as not to feel like a jerk. But when a tour guide on a Silversea shore excursion is extra-helpful or even smiles at me, I don't think "Ha! He's just doing that because the tour is winding down and tip time is coming up."

 

It's so relaxing not to feel that everyone is expecting something from you or maybe even dependent on it. All of a sudden you're responsible for feeding their families. That's a drastic statement to make a point, but how relaxing is it to feel that you're being served by underpaid people whose lives depend on your random but expected largesse?

 

My experience is that it's a psychological thing rather than a money thing. I love knowing that the staff are well paid. I love not having to worry that every staff member is just being nice or giving good service in hopes that I'll tip them. We pay extra up front and once you're on board, you can relax and not be worried about obligations and calculations and decisions like that.

[Maineac]

Well done Ferret!!!!!

 

Cheers,

Judy

[unfathomable]

We pay a large premium to not have to worry about tipping.... It's so relaxing not to feel that everyone is expecting something from you or maybe even dependent on it. All of a sudden you're responsible for feeding their families.... I love knowing that the staff are well paid.....

TheFerret nailed it.

[TheFerret]

Thank you, Judy and jgibbs.

 

:)

[lord of the seas]

Yes Ferret,I agree but this has to be sorted out by Silversea, as they are being a bit economical with the truth, if the spa staff are expecting and getting tips from most users of the spa.The spa treatments are indeed very highly priced on Silversea and Seabourn,but I suppose that they have a captive audience.

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

I still think the spa staff may be pressuring the Americans, who are so prone to tip. As I mentioned previously, I was on Silversea a few months ago, had a massage, and was not pressured into giving a tip or purchasing products.

 

Lord of the Seas hit the nail on the head. Silversea is a no-tipping line. Therefore, if the Spa on Silversea is taking a different policy vis-à-vis the passengers, this is something that Silversea should set straight one way or another and not leave this hanging in the air.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[TheFerret]

CruisinGerman made an earlier comment that struck me:

 

The problem with the American overtipping policy on a line like Silversea is that if no gratuities are expected but people tip anyway, that starts to erode the service concept of advertising a no-tipping line in the first place.

 

Yes. I was about to write a long post about the expectations that the "oh, let's just tip them anyway, it's no big deal to us" attitude, generous though it is, will eventually create. Gunther and Uta stated it most succinctly.

 

From a purely business point of view, if I were the Silversea CEO and read on these boards that most people tip everybody anyway, I'd hold down the staff wages, knowing that they'd be augmented from other sources. It would be the smart thing to do.

[Sweetpea711423]

I am an American. I have never been pressured to tip at the spa, or asked to tip at the spa, or have anyone at the spa verbally suggest or hint that I should tip. Your singling out of the treatment of Americans in this regard is a bit insulting. It is my belief that tipping at the spa is not included in the Silversea cruise price. Therefore I will continue to tip. All others, of course, are free to do as they please.

[flag fan]

I am an American. I have never been pressured to tip at the spa, or asked to tip at the spa, or have anyone at the spa verbally suggest or hint that I should tip. Your singling out of the treatment of Americans in this regard is a bit insulting. It is my belief that tipping at the spa is not included in the Silversea cruise price. Therefore I will continue to tip. All others, of course, are free to do as they please.

 

If I can throw in my 2 cents--I think the reference to Americans is because apparently (based on other posts) tipping is much more common in the United States than in England and other European countries because in the U.S., unlike in Europe, waiters, hotel housekeepers, and other service personnel are "underpaid" in that the employer's portion of their compensation is set lower with the expectation that they were receive part of their pay through tips from customers--in Europe (apparently) wages for such positions are expected to be fully paid by the employer. Thus, Europeans resent paying the wages of service staff (that is the responsibility of the employer, not the customer) and (most) Americans assume that such payments are necessary (and are concerned about cheating them out of part of the wages they earned if they don't pay an adequate tip).

 

The question I think that this thread is addressing is whether spa staff rely on tips for receiving part of their basic wages (the American system) or whether they receive their full pay through their employer, Steiner or Silversea, so that tips are not expected or necessary (the European system). (Again, this is based on generalities, there are exceptions among both Americans (like yourself) and Europeans).

 

I'm still a little confused on this point and will carefully read the spa information to see whethe tips are or are not expected or included and act accordingly. Regarding the other staff on Silversea, I agree that some passengers tipping (either out of a sense of fairness and obligation or to receive special treatment) would defeat the purpose of the no-tipping all-inclusive policy, so I plan to give a contribution to the crew fund but not otherwise tip (unless I make special requests that warrant extra compensation), althought that may be hard--I hate the idea of not giving the cabin crew something extra.

[Goldens4]

Thank you, sweetpea. I agree. It is insulting to Americans. And, as you, I will continue to tip if I feel as needed. Guess it is our duty as an American, since we have been carrying everyone else's load for decades. Amazing that we are not liked. Duh!

[TheFerret]

I am a proud, patriotic American and feel incredibly lucky to have been born and raised that way. We are the most generous people on earth according to statistics that track charitable giving. That carries over when we are abroad.

 

But I don't think that anyone was being deliberately insulting by discussing our tipping habits here. Just the opposite. I think the point was that our generous tipping habits may eventually put certain non-tipping cruiselines' business models out of kilter if the extra gratuities become widespread and expected. (I am speaking of lines like Silversea where you pay extra upfront.)

 

Now if you want to shoot me (BB gun only, please), you will see that I bleed red, white and blue. :)

[ging466]

1.Use the salon and tip for the service

2 Use the salon and do not tip for the service

3.Do not use the salon at all

4.Do not sail with the particular cruise line

 

We don't tip in Australia so I find the whole tipping thing frustrating & embarrassing because I never know what to do or what is acceptable.

 

I will take Lord's option 3 - don't use the spa.

 

No stress for me:)

 

Cheers

Jennifer (ging466)

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

As many of you who read my posts know, I have a home in New York and spend a good deal of time there, when we are not in Madrid or Barcelona.

 

It is naturally not my intention to insult or offend anybody. My statement about American overtippers comes from various tipping threads on various boards within Cruise Critic, in which we Europeans try to explain to the Americans that in Europe (and I for one speak for Spain, which is where I live) absolutely no tipping is necessary or expected, but 80% of the American posters come back with remarks to the effect that "I am going to tip the same 20% in Europe as I tip here in the United States because that is my custom and I am going to follow it".

 

My immediate reply is always "Well then, since it is my custom not to tip, then I can go to a Manhattan restaurant and walk out without tipping".

 

Of course, I would never do that, because it is important to follow the customs of the place you are visiting. However, there is an important American faction on cruise critic that believe that only their customs should be followed throughout the world.

 

Using this same logic, I believe there should be no tipping on Silversea. I have already quoted the website advertisements where Silversea clearly says "ALL ONBOARD GRATUITIES INCLUDED -- NONE ARE EXPECTED".

 

On this basis, I do not tip in the Spa.

 

However, since this seems to be causing a bit of confusion as to whether tipping in the Spa is or is not expected (although I do think that the Silversea statement speaks for itself), I do believe that Silversea should step in and specifically clarify this point.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[chicagogal]

Dear friends:

 

As many of you who read my posts know, I have a home in New York and spend a good deal of time there, when we are not in Madrid or Barcelona.

 

It is naturally not my intention to insult or offend anybody. My statement about American overtippers comes from various tipping threads on various boards within Cruise Critic, in which we Europeans try to explain to the Americans that in Europe (and I for one speak for Spain, which is where I live) absolutely no tipping is necessary or expected, but 80% of the American posters come back with remarks to the effect that "I am going to tip the same 20% in Europe as I tip here in the United States because that is my custom and I am going to follow it".

 

My immediate reply is always "Well then, since it is my custom not to tip, then I can go to a Manhattan restaurant and walk out without tipping".

 

Of course, I would never do that, because it is important to follow the customs of the place you are visiting. However, there is an important American faction on cruise critic that believe that only their customs should be followed throughout the world.

 

Using this same logic, I believe there should be no tipping on Silversea. I have already quoted the website advertisements where Silversea clearly says "ALL ONBOARD GRATUITIES INCLUDED -- NONE ARE EXPECTED".

 

On this basis, I do not tip in the Spa.

 

However, since this seems to be causing a bit of confusion as to whether tipping in the Spa is or is not expected (although I do think that the Silversea statement speaks for itself), I do believe that Silversea should step in and specifically clarify this point.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Hi CruisinGerman,

 

You did not confuse me at all and I agree with what you are saying about following local customs completely. The thing that DOES confuse/frustrate me is the statement on the spa brochures on the Spirit on our recent cruise that explicitly stated: "Gratuities not Included". The services are certainly priced to include gratuities with a simple 50 min Swedish massage at $132 (155% of what I pay at home in Chicago - $85) Even allowing for 25% mark-up on a ship , the gratuity should still be included. When my husband and I checked out at the desk after our massages, the therapist even said "you can put the gratuity there " - pointing to a line for that purpose on the spa receipt. So, of course, we adding 20% making our massages over $150 each.

[chicagogal]

I have never been ... asked to tip at the spa, or have anyone at the spa verbally suggest or hint that I should tip.

 

 

I have - 2 weeks ago on the Spirit. So I did. I agree with some others that this is all very confusing. What does "No tipping required or expected" mean if not NO tipping required or expected?

[CruisinGerman]

That is precisely why I think Silversea should clarify this.

 

Silversea (and in the long-run, they run the show, don't they) clearly state ALL ONBOARD GRATUITIES INCLUDED -- NONE ARE EXPECTED.

 

If the Spa is publishing something different, that clearly contradicts the Silversea policy and I believe it is up to Silversea to clarify the policy.

 

It is also interesting to note that the same posters who believe that I offend have no problem saying that they still intend on tipping American-style all over the world because, after all, the United States has carried the entire planet's burden for decades ...... (and they say that I insult!).

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta