Nightmare material...

[cactusrose]

Posting error

[Cruisin_on_th_net]

Oh wow, that's a shocking story! I can't believe some us airlines DON'T charge a cancelation fee! :eek: Here I was thinking, how much more dollars can they make than flying a sold but empty (ie weightless) seat and luggage allocation...... Little did I know that the seat may be unpaid for, as peeps can cancel and NOT be penalised!

 

Seems a weird way to do business, I like the idea of knowing I've paid and WILL be flying, so what ever that takes I guess is what I'd support in an airline of choice!

[cherylandtk]

Oh wow, that's a shocking story! I can't believe some us airlines DON'T charge a cancelation fee! :eek: Here I was thinking, how much more dollars can they make than flying a sold but empty (ie weightless) seat and luggage allocation...... Little did I know that the seat may be unpaid for, as peeps can cancel and NOT be penalised!

 

Seems a weird way to do business, I like the idea of knowing I've paid and WILL be flying, so what ever that takes I guess is what I'd support in an airline of choice!

Except that seat will not be empty, it will be filled by someone who was originally overbooked. And paying up front has nothing to do with it; all overbooked pax have paid for their seat.

 

EX: If the plane has 100 seats, and they sell (actually take money for) 103 seats, then they have overbooked by 3 seats. Two cancel/don't show last minute when their car breaks down on the way to the airport, and one person, the last to check in at the airport, is told they are overbooked. All usually turns out well though, as someone else on the plane voluntarily gives up their seat for compensation (usually vouchers and a seat on the next flight). Happens all the time. In the case of this story, above posters have mentioned all the things one can do to make sure you are not the last to check in (=> which means you are the first to be bumped). And since fewer pax cancel or fail to show at holiday times, those are when you want to be SURE to check in as early as possible.

 

Airlines overbook, cruiselines overbook. They know there will be last-minute no shows, and they want to fill every seat/berth they can. Yes, it means they sometimes take double payment for one spot, but that is also why fares can be held lower.

[GlendaleCruiser]

I cannot believe she didn't pay the whopping $10 :cool: for a priority ticket which would put her ahead of the A1-15 group. If I was going on a cruise I would do everything to make sure I was on that flight, even if it meant being at the airport THREE hours before the flight.

 

So, I have to wonder what "in plenty of time" means. I have friends who like to walk up at last call. NOT ME.

[UKBayern]

This is why we always print our boarding passes 24 hours in advance AND show up to the airport 2 hours early.

Well, when going on our last cruise, we checked in online 24 hours in advance and were at the airport 3 hours before take-off, only to find out our flight had been cancelled. Luckily Lufthansa/Swiss took excellent care of us. We always fly in 1 day in advance, so there was no sweat anyway.

 

I think that people are more likely to make a rushed decision based on a lower price if they know that there is not going to be a penalty for canceling. Look how many book cruises years in advanced knowing that there is no penalty to cancel and if the price drops the cruise line will adjust the price. I know I would be thinking twice about booking a cruise so far in advance if I was going to be penalized for canceling.

 

In Europe, it is much harder to cancel a cruise than in the US. We can never make an advanced booking unless we are sure we can really travel, because there is very often a penalty for cancelling a cruise. By the time we can make a booking, all the nice cruises or cabins are full.

 

We own a hotel and there are people who try to book with a fake address and phoney creditcard number so we cannot take action if they noshow. Unfortunately for them, we have seen it all before....You also would be surprised how many people come up with a sob story why they think they are so special that they can cancel anyway.

[collegecruiser346]

I am a airline pilot (not for Southwest), and I can tell you that airlines overbook almost 100% of flights. Airplanes, much like cruise ships need to be 100% full 100% of the time to make a profit. This is especially true in a down economy. More and more airlines are turning to non-refundable tickets, meaning that if you don't show up for the flight, you don't get a refund. However, if you don't mind paying more for a ticket, you can get a refundable ticket. Now, I'm not defending the airlines, I'm just simply stating a fact. If people want low fares, airplanes have to fly 100% full. There's no way around it. I feel horrible for people who miss cruises or have other vacation plans interrupted. Kudos to the woman in the video for not giving up!

[dande123]

We drive to the ports when we are going on a cruise anymore. There is just too much stress associated with flying. Of course, it takes us a few extra days but we love each others company so works out for us.;)

[Cruisin_on_th_net]

Thanks Cherryland :)

 

gee there's a lot to be aware of re overseas travel and company behaviour! We can't remember seeing a flight that was "over booked" in Aus that they bumped pax off, voluntary or involuntary! Hubs n I fly on average (him) 1 - 2 monthly (and me) on average 5 - 6 yearly. So we are in and out of airports, and just don't see it here. :)

[steve ch]

This makes me wonder.

 

I'm booked with a Princess charter flight from Manchester to Barbados. (Don't know yet which airline they will use). Everyone on the plane will be going to the Sea Princess.The flight is the same day as the ship sails.

 

Do charter flights get overbooked too? If so, and there is no alternative flight that gets there before the ship sails, what are your rights if you get bumped? Come to that, what happens if the plane is delayed. Would the ship sail anyway, and leave 300 passengers on the quay?

[greatam]

Thanks Cherryland :)

 

gee there's a lot to be aware of re overseas travel and company behaviour! We can't remember seeing a flight that was "over booked" in Aus that they bumped pax off, voluntary or involuntary! Hubs n I fly on average (him) 1 - 2 monthly (and me) on average 5 - 6 yearly. So we are in and out of airports, and just don't see it here. :)

 

ALL airlines overbook. It is part of their business model. Their highly sophisticated computer systems make a "guess" how many people will NOT make the flight for whatever reason.

 

The "guess" compensates for possible empty seats and is usually very accurate. IDB (Involuntary Denied Boarding) is rarely used, even in the USA. Saavy people who have a little extra time put their names on a VDB (Voluntary Denied Boarding) list BEFORE they board the plane. The volunteers are the first to be "bumped". Volunteers can get first class upgrades (not on Southwest) and vouchers or cash for giving up their seats. You would not even be aware of the VDB situation IF there are enough volunteers.

 

With the new rules in effect in the USA, VDB will generate an even bigger list. The new rules have an even bigger payout for those IDB. So volunteers will get more money and more perks because the airlines don't want to pay the government mandated IDB.

 

I sign up almost every time I fly (which is over 100,000 miles per year). The amount of "freebie" tickets and cash I have gotten pay for some pretty special trips. My VDB cash is getting DH and I out of Moscow in October-him to our home in Arizona, me to South America for business. Both one way flights which are over the top pricey if purchased. I took my last VDB in AA miles (I negotiated 50,000 AA miles) and waited 2 hours for the other red eye to NYC at LAX. Pretty good deal, considering that 50,000 miles (plus a little cash) can be used for an upgrade on a long haul international flight which would normally cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $6000.00.

[greatam]

This makes me wonder.

 

I'm booked with a Princess charter flight from Manchester to Barbados. (Don't know yet which airline they will use). Everyone on the plane will be going to the Sea Princess.The flight is the same day as the ship sails.

 

Do charter flights get overbooked too? If so, and there is no alternative flight that gets there before the ship sails, what are your rights if you get bumped? Come to that, what happens if the plane is delayed. Would the ship sail anyway, and leave 300 passengers on the quay?

 

You should be fine. Charters are different. They are actually "seat sold, passenger in the seat". Planes are booked per plane, NOT per passenger.

 

On a cruise line CHARTER, IF the plane is delayed, the ship will generally wait for an ENTIRE plane load of people. And if nothing else, the plane is a charter and will fly the entire planeload to the next available port stop. PLUS you are dealing with the EU rules, which are MUCH more stringent than the US consumer rules.

[greatam]

Besides flying out at least one day early (minimum!), there are some other things you can do to avoid being bumped, and deal with it if you do:

 

1> Concentrate your travel on a single airline to get elite status. Frequent flyers are rarely selected for involuntary denial of boarding.

 

2> Know what you are entitled to if it happens. In short, Money. Not a credit. Money. If you make it clear they are going to have to pay you they may target someone else who is not as knowledgeable. And if you can't dodge the bullet, make the claim,

 

3> Have a list of at least alternative options handy if possible. If you do get called up, being able to say "Can you get me on the <other airline>'s 2:15 flight instead will often work. The gate agents don't always have time to look up all other options (there are a number of phone apps that will do this for you).

 

4> If you used a TA, get them involved immediately. They have access to seats even the airline doesn't. My TA once found me a seat 15 minutes after my original departure, got in same time, and after the original airline paid me my claim I made about $70.

 

5> Be polite. Screaming and yelling at the gate agent will not help your cause. A smile and a 'what can you do' shrug often will.

 

Overbooking is a necessary evil given the current economics of the industry. It still is relatively rare, but its always good to have a plan B.

 

All great suggestions and people should take heed.

 

#3 DOES NOT work with SouthWest, JetBlue, Allegiant, Spirit and other LCC's. They have NO agreements in place to endorse a ticket to another airline (although JetBlue is trying with AA/UA and a couple of others on their "connecting" flights to Aer Lingus). IF you are on a Southwest flight, you simply WAIT until they have space available. EXACTLY like cruise air-you are STUCK with your cruise air/consolidator ticket. If and when the ORIGINATING airline has space available, THEN you fly. Not on another airline.

[steve ch]

You should be fine. Charters are different. They are actually "seat sold, passenger in the seat". Planes are booked per plane, NOT per passenger.

 

On a cruise line CHARTER, IF the plane is delayed, the ship will generally wait for an ENTIRE plane load of people. And if nothing else, the plane is a charter and will fly the entire planeload to the next available port stop. PLUS you are dealing with the EU rules, which are MUCH more stringent than the US consumer rules.

 

 

Thanks. That's a relief.

 

It's a shame that Princess are stopping the UK charter flights once Sea Princess relocates to Australia. Looks like I just discovered their Barbados based cruises in time.

[momoftwinteens]

After working at an airport for the past 5 years, I have learned a few things. First and foremost, NEVER fly the same day of your cruise, if it can be helped at all. I have seen too many people miss their cruises because of delays and cancellations. People don't realize that there are more cancellations in the summer than there are in the winter. Planes can't be refueled if there is lightening within 5 miles of the airport. Also, that departure time on your boarding pass is actually "wheels up". In otherwords, you need to be at the gate and boarded at least 1/2 hour before that time to make your flight. Airlines will be fined by the airports if they don't leave on time to wait for a passenger. Plus, they will lose their slots at the airport they are flying into. Fly down the day before and give yourself a good long layover, to make room for delays. You'll thank yourself later. Trust me!

[Crusin'Cousins]

This is all helpful info...

 

Due to a cruise cancellation, we are needing to rebook some frequest flyer flights.

 

We see a flight that arrives at the port city very late, like 11:00PM (not direct) on the day before the cruise. Another option is to fly out (direct) the day of the cruise and arrive at the port city at about noon, for a 4:00PM departing cruise.

 

The fact that the day before flight is so late, and stops in a "snowy city" is that still an advantage to go that route? It seems if there are weather issues the day before, that the day before flight will be messed up too and we'll be in the same situation needing to fly out the day of the cruise, and possibly not as a direct flight.

 

Any ideas or thoughts we should consider?

 

Thanks!

[UKBayern]

Do charter flights get overbooked too?

No, the touroperators pay the airlines for the seats when working out a deal to fly there.

 

After working at an airport for the past 5 years, I have learned a few things. First and foremost, NEVER fly the same day of your cruise, if it can be helped at all. I have seen too many people miss their cruises because of delays and cancellations. People don't realize that there are more cancellations in the summer than there are in the winter. Planes can't be refueled if there is lightening within 5 miles of the airport. Also, that departure time on your boarding pass is actually "wheels up". In otherwords, you need to be at the gate and boarded at least 1/2 hour before that time to make your flight. Airlines will be fined by the airports if they don't leave on time to wait for a passenger. Plus, they will lose their slots at the airport they are flying into. Fly down the day before and give yourself a good long layover, to make room for delays. You'll thank yourself later. Trust me!

 

Yep. I worked at an airport in Europe for more than 11 years and I can confirm. I have seen people on flights to Miami, due to arrive at MIA at 2:30 for a 5 pm departure on a cruise. Now, that is cutting it far too close.... Can you imagine the stress for the passengers if the plane was only slightly delayed? Most of the time, it was CruiseAir who had book it like this and who had told the passengers that they would be fine....

 

In Europe, departure time is actually the time when the plane backs up from the gate. Cancellations in Europe are more likely in the summer too, as the European airspace gets very overcrowded with holiday charters.

[boogs]

Also, that departure time on your boarding pass is actually "wheels up". In otherwords, you need to be at the gate and boarded at least 1/2 hour before that time to make your flight.

 

Every flight I have ever taken has pushed back from the gate at or later than the time that was printed on the boarding pass, not earlier. It is not the "wheels up" time - unless the pilot accidentally hits the button to retract the wheels while still at the gate!!!! :D

[TinaT]

Hi What does DH and DD stand for?? Im new to this site and its driving me crazzzy! lol thanks

[wizard-of-roz]

Hi What does DH and DD stand for?? Im new to this site and its driving me crazzzy! lol thanks

 

DD: Dear Daughter

DH: Dear Husband

DW: Dear Wife

Well, you get the picture.

[Cygneagile]

I sometimes wonder if the 2 hours time between flights is enough. They do not seem to care. Was this a cruise line flight or your own. Who want stress before you go.

 

We flew using the cruise line for one of our cruises. We had a 5 hour stop in Atlanta. Imagine 5 hours. They would not change our flight and we tried. We arrived in FLL about 1 hour before the cruise left port. The one good thing was that our luggage was in our cabin just minutes after we embarked. We never take the cruise line flight any more. If we fly in the winter we go the day before. Our cruise this September leaves from Savona Italy. So Toronto - Rome overnight and a short flight to Genoa. We arrive at genoa at 11:30 AM to take the transfer to Savona. One needs to do a lot of research when you book your own air.... Well worth the extra time before you fly/sail.

[mitsugirly]

I've always flown in the day of my cruise (which was all set up by my travel agents in the past).

 

However, after getting on this board and reading all the near misses and the things that could go wrong...I won't be doing that again. I have my air booked for the day ahead of time. It should give me PLENTY of time to get there. :D

[texaridian]

Last summer we went on a HAL cruise from Montreal. We booked air through the cruise line. Our flight was to depart Jacksonville around 6 am with a noon arrival in Montreal. We got to the airport in plenty of time. In fact, we had to wait for the ticket counter to open so that we could check our bags. Only then did we find out that our flight had been canceled. We made calls and were finally able to get on another airline's later flight. We rushed through the airport in Montreal, hopped on the shuttle that was waiting for us and high tailed it to the port. (At least there was no line to check-in :p). Anyway, when we finally were on the gangplank, we had to wait to get on the ship because they were doing the lifeboat drill and the decks were full of passengers.

 

We later heard of other passengers who had been scheduled on the same flight. They were lucky in that the airline called them to night before to tell them the flight was canceled. I wish we had received a call.

 

Alls well that ends well. Plus, we finally got to skip the drill.

[GlendaleCruiser]

Every flight I have ever taken has pushed back from the gate at or later than the time that was printed on the boarding pass, not earlier. It is not the "wheels up" time - unless the pilot accidentally hits the button to retract the wheels while still at the gate!!!! :D

That's been my experience and I've flown 3 times a month for 16 years (business travel).

[Watson's aunt]

Hi

 

Anytiine I travel I go a few days before Usually a Tuesday. I live in Notheast(Boston)

I usually take morning flights. I will get to airport sometimes 3-4 hours before my flight. Whats the difference of hanging around the house than a airport. Traffic and car accidents can make you late. Boston's airport is in the city and a bit hard to get to (Tunnels) I rather be at airport than worry about me being stuck in traffic. I also print my boarding pass the day before. I also check how many seats are available on the flight. I also check other airlines to see if the have seats available to where I am going. I also will book Nonstops. I hate having to land and have to wait at another airport. If I am going to do a cruise in winter you could miss the whole cruise because planes cannot take off and land in Boston even though Boston is clear. Weather can back-up flights for days. I never trust weather or even a problem with the plane.

 

 

Mary

 

 

Mary