What's So Bad About Natural History Tour?

[Tricia724]

We wil be getting to Denali Lodge sometime after 5:30pm on Sept 10th, staying over night and leaving for McKinley lodge Sat 9/11 around 2:00pm.

 

Shame on Princess for setting up a cruisetour like this. They could very easily include the TWT instead of the NHT or let people spend more time at Denali. Instead they are rushing you off to McKinley Lodge early in the afternoon for what??? To see more trees? Or more than likely to spend money at their lodge? There's nothing else out there.

 

This is the reason why many of us are leery about some of the cruiseline tours. They often benefit the cruiselines more than the tourists.

[vbmom87]

It really depends on how one travels and what one does. I spent two weeks in SE Alaska and spent under $2,500 total (one person - would have been almost double for two) including lots of independent tours. If one wants the best lodging in each town and eats out every day for every meal, they wouldn't come close to this price. But I ate well and had a great time including two whale watch tours, two glacier tours, a bear watch excursion and Misty Fjords flightseeing. Did a lot more than that, but it gives an idea. Coupons helped a great deal, some of which would have been impossible to use if on a cruise. Glacier Bay can be done independently (and better than on a larger cruise ship) and Tracy Arm is also best done on the small boats from Juneau, which most people on cruises can't take since they are not in Juneau long enough. Flights using miles and Alaska Air companion certificates can really help too. There are so many ways to save when traveling independently. No need to have unlimited funds to do it!

 

 

Oh yes, we were thrifty were we could be. Always have been. ;) Used the Northern Lights Book for several good savings, esp. for the 9 hour Northwestern Fjords tour in Seward. Rented our car a year ahead and paid $200 for the 9 days for full size. Only meal I recall buying in port was a sandwich before boarding our Tracy Arm cruise. I am a vegetarian and they did not have any veggie options to purchase on the boat. The Skagway train trip included lunch. We brought our cooler bag for our land portion and made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for most days. My DH bought a sub at a supermarket and it lasted him for three lunches. We took the shuttle into Denali and saved there. We stayed in B&Bs so our breakfasts were included. We did buy our dinners out on the land portion. I know we spent a lot less than many others do. However, it is still a costly place to visit, no matter how much you try to cut corners. I guess because most of our vacations have been camping ones I get sticker shock when we travel otherwise.We do like to spend on some good excursions, so we save wherever we can.

 

I would love to do Glacier Bay from a small boat. I do hope to get back to Alaska one more time and will try to fit that in if possible. Sounds like you had a great trip too. Would also love an overnight bear expedition. Originally I wasn't too interested until I saw someone's photos. I know not everyone likes planning independently, so cruisetours are a good option for some. It is just that so many people just trust their TA and blindly book a tour. For what they cost, people should do some of their own research before putting down that kind of money.

[frugaltravel]

Oh yes, we were thrifty were we could be. Always have been. ;) Used the Northern Lights Book for several good savings, esp. for the 9 hour Northwestern Fjords tour in Seward. Rented our car a year ahead and paid $200 for the 9 days for full size. Only meal I recall buying in port was a sandwich before boarding our Tracy Arm cruise. I am a vegetarian and they did not have any veggie options to purchase on the boat. The Skagway train trip included lunch. We brought our cooler bag for our land portion and made peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for most days. My DH bought a sub at a supermarket and it lasted him for three lunches. We took the shuttle into Denali and saved there. We stayed in B&Bs so our breakfasts were included. We did buy our dinners out on the land portion. I know we spent a lot less than many others do. However, it is still a costly place to visit, no matter how much you try to cut corners. I guess because most of our vacations have been camping ones I get sticker shock when we travel otherwise.We do like to spend on some good excursions, so we save wherever we can.

 

I would love to do Glacier Bay from a small boat. I do hope to get back to Alaska one more time and will try to fit that in if possible. Sounds like you had a great trip too. Would also love an overnight bear expedition. Originally I wasn't too interested until I saw someone's photos. I know not everyone likes planning independently, so cruisetours are a good option for some.

 

Sounds like we would travel well together :)

 

It is just that so many people just trust their TA and blindly book a tour. For what they cost, people should do some of their own research before putting down that kind of money.

 

Or more often they just use an online agency to get the cheapest price so of course the TA isn't going to tell them much. But I really can't blame the TA as much as the people - as you say, people need to know what they are buying, whether that is a cruisetour, stock in a company, a car or a refrigerator. Don't just trust the salesperson.

[wolfie11]

Many of the components of these land tours are much pricier as a package vs. doing it on your own. My wife and I are going to Glacier Bay with a special rate for lodging and 2 for 1 coupons for boat trip and activities. Quite simply, you pay for the convenience of the package.

 

Lucky you! The small boat tour of Glacier Bay is IMHO the BEST tour anywhere in Alaska. Glaciers up close (you'll probably go to Johns Hopkins), humpbacks up close, otters and puffins and sea lions up close, bears up close, etc. Plus, there is always a good chance to see mammal-eating killer whales out for a seal snack.

 

I would love to do this tour again, but will have to be content with the cruise ship tour this year (sigh).

[vbmom87]

Lucky you! The small boat tour of Glacier Bay is IMHO the BEST tour anywhere in Alaska. Glaciers up close (you'll probably go to Johns Hopkins), humpbacks up close, otters and puffins and sea lions up close, bears up close, etc. Plus, there is always a good chance to see mammal-eating killer whales out for a seal snack.

 

I would love to do this tour again, but will have to be content with the cruise ship tour this year (sigh).

 

Is the small boat tour banned from John Hopkins for part of the season, just like the cruiseships?

[NancyIL]

I can't imagine doing a one-way cruise and NOT doing a land trip! I loved our one-way Alaska cruises, but I loved the land trips with a rental car even more. The first one was the best - and we didn't even go to Denali! We spent the first and last nights in Anchorage, as well as Kennicott (2 nights - my favorite), Valdez ( 1 night), Homer (2 nights), and Seward (2 nights).

 

Some friends and I attended a church conference in Anchorage after my second northbound cruise. We spent 5 nights there and enjoyed getting to know the area, 2 nights at Denali (staying in Healy), then one more night in Anchorage. We ended up staying an extra night when our flight from Anchorage was cancelled due to mechanical problems. I had been ambivalent about going to Denali because I'm not that into wildlife. However, the scenery was beautiful, and it was more exciting than I expected to spot wildlife. The 8 hours on the bus flew by.

 

Last year's roundtrip cruise from Seattle was nice, but I enjoyed the days pre and post-cruise in Seattle as much as the Alaskan ports that time. I hadn't planned to go to Alaska at all, but the price of the roundtrip was too good to pass up.

[MercedMike]

Shame on Princess for setting up a cruisetour like this. They could very easily include the TWT instead of the NHT or let people spend more time at Denali. Instead they are rushing you off to McKinley Lodge early in the afternoon for what??? To see more trees? Or more than likely to spend money at their lodge? There's nothing else out there.

 

This is the reason why many of us are leery about some of the cruiseline tours. They often benefit the cruiselines more than the tourists.

 

OR -- SOME MIGHT SEE IT THIS WAY:

 

Hooray for Princess for offering options on their cruisetours. While some people like more time at Denali and the long TWT, others will be happier visiting other lodges and seeing the sights there. It is very good of the cruise line to give them their choice this way.

 

That's the reason that many of us think the cruiseline tours are a good way to go. They benefit the passengers by making it safe, easy and comfortable for them.

 

HMMMMMMM. YMMV.

[wolfie11]

Is the small boat tour banned from John Hopkins for part of the season, just like the cruiseships?

Yes, all boat traffic including kayaks and small motorboats are prohibited from going past Jaw Point from May 15 until July1. Cruise ships are banned until Sept. 1. The harbor seals haul out on the icebergs to give birth and are there until the pups are weaned (well, actually they're always there but there is a danger that the pups and moms will get separated by humans coming through and won't be able to find each other again).

[vbmom87]

Yes, all boat traffic including kayaks and small motorboats are prohibited from going past Jaw Point from May 15 until July1. Cruise ships are banned until Sept. 1. The harbor seals haul out on the icebergs to give birth and are there until the pups are weaned (well, actually they're always there but there is a danger that the pups and moms will get separated by humans coming through and won't be able to find each other again).

 

Thank you.

[Tricia724]

Hooray for Princess for offering options on their cruisetours. While some people like more time at Denali and the long TWT, others will be happier visiting other lodges and seeing the sights there. It is very good of the cruise line to give them their choice this way.

 

Uh.....I guess I missed something here, Mike. The OP came to this board because she was concerned and looking for reassurance about the NHT. She has learned a little too late that there are other options not available to her. She's getting little more than a half day at Denali, doesn't have enough time to take the TWT or the Park shuttle, and doesn't seem real happy about it. Here's what she says about her "choice":

 

It is a shame that this info isn't "spelled out" more accurately for those of us NEW to Alaska. The cruise companies should explain the options of the tours more clearly to those of us that have never been there. I wasn't even aware that other tours were available until I started doing further research and checking this board.

The Natural History Tour, without knowing anything about the other tours, sounds wonderful. You get to ride into the park on a bus looking for wildlife etc. Most "clueless people" would think this is wonderful.

I just wish cruiselines would make more info available to those who do not know.

 

I'm not saying that everyone should take the TWT instead of the NHT. What I'm saying is that in this particular case, there is only one day scheduled at Denali and Princess is hustling the people out of the Park and on the way to their lodge in mid-afternoon....when there is still plenty of time to do a longer tour or enjoy other options in the Park. Of course, I'm making the assumption that most people actually would like to see some of Denali because they have chosen a tour that includes Denali.....but I could be wrong. Maybe they would prefer to hurry off to the really, really remote McKinley Wilderness Lodge to relax and enjoy a $40 dinner.

 

I agree with you that everyone is not interested in the same thing, and I agree that there should be choices that reflect those differing interests. But those choices have to be made when booking the cruisetour in the first place, and if you don't understand what you are getting, you aren't in the best position to choose the options most suitable for you. Lots of people just trust the cruiselines to give them the most bang for their buck. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. JMO

 

MMDV :D

[negc]

OR -- SOME MIGHT SEE IT THIS WAY:

 

Hooray for Princess for offering options on their cruisetours. While some people like more time at Denali and the long TWT, others will be happier visiting other lodges and seeing the sights there. It is very good of the cruise line to give them their choice this way.

All well and good when Princess actually offers a choice but as we have read here, in many instances Princess would not permit their passengers to upgrade to the TWT even when there apparently was sufficient time available for them to do so. I don't give them cheers for this. When we did our Princess Alaska cruisetour, admittedly 11 years ago, we weren't even familiar with the difference in the two tours other than the length of time involved with each. Princess has, this year, begun to offer a variation which allows you to stay longer in Denali at a set price and any tours you choose to take will be an added cost. For those who have carefully researched their Alaska trip this might be worthwhile but if guests focus solely on the added costs of the tours they may forego some worthwhile activities.

[vbmom87]

Uh.....I guess I missed something here, Mike. The OP came to this board because she was concerned and looking for reassurance about the NHT. She has learned a little too late that there are other options not available to her. She's getting little more than a half day at Denali, doesn't have enough time to take the TWT or the Park shuttle, and doesn't seem real happy about it. Here's what she says about her "choice":

 

It is a shame that this info isn't "spelled out" more accurately for those of us NEW to Alaska. The cruise companies should explain the options of the tours more clearly to those of us that have never been there. I wasn't even aware that other tours were available until I started doing further research and checking this board.

The Natural History Tour, without knowing anything about the other tours, sounds wonderful. You get to ride into the park on a bus looking for wildlife etc. Most "clueless people" would think this is wonderful.

I just wish cruiselines would make more info available to those who do not know.

 

I'm not saying that everyone should take the TWT instead of the NHT. What I'm saying is that in this particular case, there is only one day scheduled at Denali and Princess is hustling the people out of the Park and on the way to their lodge in mid-afternoon....when there is still plenty of time to do a longer tour or enjoy other options in the Park. Of course, I'm making the assumption that most people actually would like to see some of Denali because they have chosen a tour that includes Denali.....but I could be wrong. Maybe they would prefer to hurry off to the really, really remote McKinley Wilderness Lodge to relax and enjoy a $40 dinner.

 

I agree with you that everyone is not interested in the same thing, and I agree that there should be choices that reflect those differing interests. But those choices have to be made when booking the cruisetour in the first place, and if you don't understand what you are getting, you aren't in the best position to choose the options most suitable for you. Lots of people just trust the cruiselines to give them the most bang for their buck. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. JMO

 

MMDV :D

 

Very well stated.

 

I totally agree that in spite of what some people on this board say, the longer tours into the park are not for everyone. Unfortunately, the way marketing goes with all businesses and products, the seller only tells you what they want. In the case of Denali, most likely most people do want to get well into the park which is why they sign up for a cruisetour that includes Denali. I feel bad for those who want something more but do not get it because they were not informed. However, as we all now, the adage "Buyer Beware" applies to everything we purchase, even travel tours.

[MercedMike]

Well, folks -- there is a lot of hot air going around here about how terrible Princess is because they don't tell anybody about the difference in the various tours. So I took an unusual step for this board and actually checked out the facts of the matter.

 

Perhaps all those who are so cynical about Princess and how they only want to make money should look at

http://www.princess.com/learn/destinations/alaska/why_visit_alaska/national_parks/denali/denali_tours/index.html

 

HMMMM? Pretty clear, isn't it? Is Princess hiding anything in those descriptions?

 

Pretty much exactly what I have been saying:

 

TWT:

Recommended for:

 

 

• Passengers with 2-night stays at Denali
  
• Passengers who want a deep Denali Park experience
  
• Passengers who enjoy motorcoach travel
  

NHT:

Recommended for:

• Passengers who are interested in Denali’s history, culture and nature
  
• Passengers who have limited time in Denali and want to more thoroughly experience their lodge and/or land excursions
  
• Passengers who prefer to have more free time in Denali
  

Just as I said -- kudos to Princess for offering CHOICES!

[vbmom87]

Well, folks -- there is a lot of hot air going around here about how terrible Princess is because they don't tell anybody about the difference in the various tours. So I took an unusual step for this board and actually checked out the facts of the matter.

 

Perhaps all those who are so cynical about Princess and how they only want to make money should look at

http://www.princess.com/learn/destinations/alaska/why_visit_alaska/national_parks/denali/denali_tours/index.html

 

HMMMM? Pretty clear, isn't it? Is Princess hiding anything in those descriptions?

 

Pretty much exactly what I have been saying:

 

TWT:

Recommended for:

 

 

• Passengers with 2-night stays at Denali
  
• Passengers who want a deep Denali Park experience
  
• Passengers who enjoy motorcoach travel
  

NHT:

 

 

Recommended for:

• Passengers who are interested in Denali’s history, culture and nature
  
• Passengers who have limited time in Denali and want to more thoroughly experience their lodge and/or land excursions
  
• Passengers who prefer to have more free time in Denali
  

Just as I said -- kudos to Princess for offering CHOICES!

 

Buyer Beware still holds for ANY tour you are taking anywhere in the world. What happens is people don't often take the time to read tour brochures and descriptions. They look at price, dates of the tour, and cost. Many do not bother with the details. When I state, "buyer beware" I simply mean that you as a consumer are responsible for finding out what is included in any tour you purchase. The ultimate responsibility is with the consumer. Too many leave it to a Travel Agent who does not take the time to inform them of the differences in tours. Four of us went on a European bus tour which we absolutely loved. However, I did all my research comparing the different tour companies and analyzing their brochures line by line. Once I knew what I wanted, then I went to a TA to book it. I had no surprises on my trip. Everything was as advertised. However, MANY on our tour simply walked into a travel agency, told their agent they wanted to go to Europe and the agent steered them to the tour. I would estimate AT LEAST half of the people on our bus tour did not realize they would have to pay for additional side trips. They had no idea what they were going to see. Some were downright beligerent when they realized how many churches we were going to. So, Mike, I still stand by what I say. Buyers have to READ and be responsible for their choices. Like you say, usually the information is there, but the consumer has to take the time to find it. I don't expect my TA to spend hours with me explaining every detail of every tour out there. I hold myself responsible. What you posted is clear about the differences, but someone else posted other descriptions by Princess and frankly, they were not as clear as what you posted. Again, lots of information for people to sort through and they simply don't take the time to do that.

[Robinhill]

Can anyone tell me how to change from a NHT to a TWT and pay the difference. The NHT is included in our land cruisetour with RCCL on the Radiance but i would love to change this to the TWT. Any suggestions on how to do this. I believe I have read quite awhile back that others had been able to get the NHT credited to their account and then booked the TWT but I don't know how to go about it. Thanks

[Budget Queen]

Can anyone tell me how to change from a NHT to a TWT and pay the difference. The NHT is included in our land cruisetour with RCCL on the Radiance but i would love to change this to the TWT. Any suggestions on how to do this. I believe I have read quite awhile back that others had been able to get the NHT credited to their account and then booked the TWT but I don't know how to go about it. Thanks

 

RCI is not known to give refunds. First you need to go through your booking agent and confirm this.

 

Next I would go Aramark directly and see if they can upgrade you. You would need to know the exact booking you are currently on.

 

IF none of these work out, AND you have the time, I would just cut your losses, and consider the shuttle bus to at least Toklat. You do need to get to the access center, which your lodge should have shuttles. You can also just book the TWT yourself, for your lodge pick up. IF you have the time.

[JHUNTGOLF]

Well, folks -- there is a lot of hot air going around here about how terrible Princess is because they don't tell anybody about the difference in the various tours. So I took an unusual step for this board and actually checked out the facts of the matter.

 

Perhaps all those who are so cynical about Princess and how they only want to make money should look at

http://www.princess.com/learn/destinations/alaska/why_visit_alaska/national_parks/denali/denali_tours/index.html

 

HMMMM? Pretty clear, isn't it? Is Princess hiding anything in those descriptions?

 

Pretty much exactly what I have been saying:

 

TWT:

Recommended for:

 

 

• Passengers with 2-night stays at Denali
  
• Passengers who want a deep Denali Park experience
  
• Passengers who enjoy motorcoach travel
  

NHT:

 

 

Recommended for:

• Passengers who are interested in Denali’s history, culture and nature
  
• Passengers who have limited time in Denali and want to more thoroughly experience their lodge and/or land excursions
  
• Passengers who prefer to have more free time in Denali
  

Just as I said -- kudos to Princess for offering CHOICES!

 

 

MercedMike,

 

I agree totally with your comments about Princess. I did my research on Cruise Critic and easily found that you could upgrade from the Natural History Tour to the Tundra Wilderness Tour. Since the Tundra tour is so much longer, it may not be for everyone. For example, of the eight couples in my group, only five are doing the Tundra tour; the other three are doing the Natural History Tour that is included in our package. Princess' web site also, as you mention above, is very clear in describing the two tours, and a simple search on Cruise Critic will give you more than enough information about the differences in the two tours. All we did was have our TA call Princess to upgrade us to the Tundra tour at a cost of $60 per person.

 

John

[MercedMike]

Buyer Beware still holds for ANY tour you are taking anywhere in the world. What happens is people don't often take the time to read tour brochures and descriptions. They look at price, dates of the tour, and cost. Many do not bother with the details. When I state, "buyer beware" I simply mean that you as a consumer are responsible for finding out what is included in any tour you purchase. The ultimate responsibility is with the consumer. Too many leave it to a Travel Agent who does not take the time to inform them of the differences in tours. Four of us went on a European bus tour which we absolutely loved. However, I did all my research comparing the different tour companies and analyzing their brochures line by line. Once I knew what I wanted, then I went to a TA to book it. I had no surprises on my trip. Everything was as advertised. However, MANY on our tour simply walked into a travel agency, told their agent they wanted to go to Europe and the agent steered them to the tour. I would estimate AT LEAST half of the people on our bus tour did not realize they would have to pay for additional side trips. They had no idea what they were going to see. Some were downright beligerent when they realized how many churches we were going to. So, Mike, I still stand by what I say. Buyers have to READ and be responsible for their choices. Like you say, usually the information is there, but the consumer has to take the time to find it. I don't expect my TA to spend hours with me explaining every detail of every tour out there. I hold myself responsible. What you posted is clear about the differences, but someone else posted other descriptions by Princess and frankly, they were not as clear as what you posted. Again, lots of information for people to sort through and they simply don't take the time to do that.

 

I absolutely agree with you!! Many times on these boards I have pointed out how SLAVISHLY the tour descriptions are followed, and the necessity of reading them very carefully. Exactly what it says is exactly what you will get. Of course, after a whole pile of cruises and a mountain of shore excursions, I am better at glancing at a description quickly and understanding what it says.

 

I am pretty compulsive about tours. Even my DW the MCC gets fed up with me sometimes. Others are not so compulsive and happy to take somebody's advice. IMAO they then have no business complaining if it is not exactly what they expected!

 

I am sorry, however, that some people on these boards seem so determined to make people feel bad if they do not choose the tour recommended by those particular posters. Somehow they not only want to offer their opinions but then feel called upon to put down others who have different opinions. IMHO the value of this board is discussing different options, just as the Princess page I noted does, and allowing people to make choices without feeling intimidated.