Epic Sailing With Epic Numbers of Empty Cabins?

[SueSea]

They are intentionally holding back space to allow them to monitor how things are working/nor working as the capacity increases.

 

It may be true they are holding back some cabins, but they are still selling cabins on the 7/31 sailing. That means they haven't sold all the cabins they decided NOT to hold back.

 

With global economics the way they are right now I'm sure that it's not only NCL who will be sailing without full capacity this summer.

 

True enough when considering all ships on each line. However, new ships still have higher demand than older ships. The more innovative/bigger & better the ship, the greater the demand will be. Epic is certainly innovative, so I would expect that she would be full, especially during the peak summer season.

[Hunwolf]

I have to admit I've never heard of a company intentionally opening a new business (restaurant/cruise ship/store/etc.) and developing a marketing strategy to artificially reduce the number of people who may enter said store (or ship).

 

Now...when I was in the restaurant business (a lifetime ago)...we had 2 days worth of "shakedown services" where we sent out targeted (rsvp) invitations with specific seating times. After those 2 days we adjusted staffing levels, resources, etc. Those numbers were totally off the books and everything was comped. We didn't develop a plan to "water down" our services for months on end.

 

That seems to be the argument that some are making.

 

Thanks for the laugh...:D These kinds of "informative" threads are my favorites.

[Aldeya]

That's because a) They give their cruises away almost and b) they have to almost give their cruises away due to the reputation or rather the reputation of its passengers.

 

Apparently you didn't sail Carnival lately. We just came back from Carnival Miracle and were very pleasantly surprised: excellent service, friendly crew, good enough food not to go hungry on the ship:D I think Carnival made some really good changes and it shows. Wouldn't hesitate to go on Carnival ship again.

As for the pasengers.. Well, I can tel you stories from RCCL and Princess you would be surprised. Good and bad behavior can be encountered on any cruise line.

[insidecabin]

Found this article to be an interesting objective take on CCL, RCL and NCL numbers.

.

 

If you dig into the numbers you can get the profit per pax per day.

 

when I did t for RCCL a while back it was around $5pppd

 

With that it does not take much change in onboard spending or costs or cruise price to go into loss making terratory.

 

Margins are very tight on all the cruise lines.

[sjbdtz]

The link was provided as to where I obtained the numbers, but here it is again.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=ccl

 

An 80% decrease is an 80% decrease....whether its in hundreds, or thousands.

 

 

I have to admit I've never heard of a company intentionally opening a new business (restaurant/cruise ship/store/etc.) and developing a marketing strategy to artificially reduce the number of people who may enter said store (or ship).

 

Now...when I was in the restaurant business (a lifetime ago)...we had 2 days worth of "shakedown services" where we sent out targeted (rsvp) invitations with specific seating times. After those 2 days we adjusted staffing levels, resources, etc. Those numbers were totally off the books and everything was comped. We didn't develop a plan to "water down" our services for months on end.

 

That seems to be the argument that some are making.

 

Thanks for the laugh...:D These kinds of "informative" threads are my favorites.

 

 

When I opened my 210 seat, 5000 sq ft restaurant, we did a "soft opening", and we removed certain tables to the 'meeting room', which we left closed-off. This effectively reduced the seating by about 60 spaces and gave the staff and kitchen a lot more leeway in getting up to speed. When things were in-hand, then we deployed the extra tables, and after 3 or 4 weeks, we opened up the meeting room.

 

So yes, this type of thing happens all the time.

 

 

 

 

 

I take this to be a parody post...it has to be. Nobody on an NCL board is lowering their noses on a Carnival cruiser. Can't be...:D

 

No, I doubt we'd be lowering our noses....not to say we couldn't, but we're above that.....

:cool:

[Music City]

Found this article to be an interesting objective take on CCL, RCL and NCL numbers.

 

I just hope all the lines continue to succeed as it benefits the customers most when they are profitable and can stop having to cut corners to make ends meet. As for the Epic, two weeks of sailing are not nearly enough evidence to call the ship a success or failure imho.

 

The scary part about NCL is not just the losses, but Sheehan deferred a ton of debt at a very high interest rate into the future. It will be very difficult to service that debt if NCL continues to lose money.

[Hunwolf]

The more I read/hear from the NCL insiders, the more I think that maybe some of the early bumps in the road for Epic are actually intentional moves by NCL. Perhaps they (NCL) are actually trying to lower the bar a bit in the early going (run a little low on pax, uneven service, etc.) to bring the expectations down to a manageable level. It could be that they are "sandbagging" a bit early on and really planning on wowing the cruising world with Epic when 2011 gets here. While folks on here may think that the negative reviews (like the Frommer review) are a bad thing...this actually plays right into the marketing strategy perhaps.

 

No need to spoil them early on. With each return visit to the Epic...it gets better and better. Make the pax earn respect for the ship.

 

Seems reasonable to me.

[paulsurf]

Would like to try to buy an upgrade from Deluxe Family to suite, but they be sold out on the 8/21/10 sailing

[Loyal2RCCL]

I don't think that is the case so much as Richard Fain (or the bean counters at RCI) making a decision to hold tight on their pricing . . . . even if it leads to sailing with empty cabins.

 

I have to admit thought, that either way, the bottom line is the same . . . . empty cabins equate to lost revenue.

 

It is absolutely the case. RCCL intentionally did not sell Oasis to capacity for the first few months she was in service. The also did this with the Voyager and Freedom class ships when they launched. The slow ramp up to capacity gives the crew a chance to find their groove and get used to a new ship design etc without hampering service to the guests. RCCL slowly increased the sellable capacity and has since been sailing Oasis at (or over) 100% occupancy on a regular basis while still maintaining premium pricing. I suspect NCL is doing the same with Epic and it's not an unusual practice.. no cruise line wants the debut of their new ship marred by bad press and unhappy guest complaints.

[baf10]

It is absolutely the case. RCCL intentionally did not sell Oasis to capacity for the first few months she was in service. The also did this with the Voyager and Freedom class ships when they launched. The slow ramp up to capacity gives the crew a chance to find their groove and get used to a new ship design etc without hampering service to the guests. RCCL slowly increased the sellable capacity and has since been sailing Oasis at (or over) 100% occupancy on a regular basis while still maintaining premium pricing. I suspect NCL is doing the same with Epic and it's not an unusual practice.. no cruise line wants the debut of their new ship marred by bad press and unhappy guest complaints.

 

 

That is true. Someone I know went on the Oasis over Christmas and said it was something like 2/3rd's full.

[Hunwolf]

no cruise line wants the debut of their new ship marred by bad press and unhappy guest complaints.

 

Fortunately...NCL hasn't had to worry about that. ;)

[Loyal2RCCL]

Fortunately...NCL hasn't had to worry about that. ;)

 

Well, I think NCL was their own worst enemy. First off, they should not have sold the TA and instead ferried the ship straight from the yard to the US. Especially since this ship design and scale was new to them-- granted, the ship had a few set backs with the fires etc, but who knows how much of that truely affected the overall completion timeline. Had they not sold the TA as a revenue cruise, they would have had an additional 15 days to finish the ship enroute to the US.

 

I think another area where they dropped the ball was in their overall marketing in the launch of the ship. From what I heard, they did very little to make the initial sailings "special". When RCCL launched Oasis for example, those on the pre-inaugural sailings as well as those on the inaugural revenue cruise received commerative gifts etc. They truely made the launch an event.

 

Granted, each cruise line has problems and issues from time to time, but it's the way they handle them that makes a difference (good or bad).

[roxette]

NCL has said in the past that Epic will not be sailing with a full passenger complement until sometime in the late-August, early-September timeframe.

 

They are intentionally holding back space to allow them to monitor how things are working/nor working as the capacity increases.

 

I don't hhink they release all the cabins to the public. I belive that many cabins are not even available for booking, in that case, it's a bad sign that many of the cabins that actually are up for sale doesn't get booket.

 

I'm planning to book either the last Epic b2b in the caribbean in april or the Pearl to panama the week before.

[david_sobe]

I think it is WAY too early to jump to any conclusions. The general public did not even know about Epic here in Miami until she docked. I admire those that are taking the early carribean cruises but it is a risky time to take a cruise to the carribean and that could be a reason Epic is not booked 100%. I specifially did not book until winter. Hurricane season just started and a minor and small tropical storm already impacted Epic and they almost did not dock in Nassau. The carribean is so HOT in the summer and I think once fall comes we will see Epic booked near capacity.

So the long story short is it is too early to make any judgments or comparisons.

 

Funny how some say the Epic is not built for carribean cruises or the bathroom set up is so different and crazy. Do you know having a sink in your bedroom (instead of bathoom) is a very common feature in the carribean? (Especially in the Dominican Republic). - Just wanted to throw that in for poetic justice and kill 2 birds with one stone :)

[dmwnc1959]

Funny how some say the Epic is not built for carribean cruises or the bathroom set up is so different and crazy. Do you know having a sink in your bedroom (instead of bathoom) is a very common feature in the carribean? (Especially in the Dominican Republic).

 

I had also read that the worse place to have your toothbrush is at the sink in your bathroom, that it is recommended at least 6 feet away from the toilet.

 

"According to germ expert Chuck Gerba, PhD, a professor of environmental microbiology at the University of Arizona, when you flush, aerosolized toilet funk is propelled as far as 6 feet, settling on the floor, the sink, and your toothbrush".

[insidecabin]

I had also read that the worse place to have your toothbrush is at the sink in your bathroom, that it is recommended at least 6 feet away from the toilet.

 

"According to germ expert Chuck Gerba, PhD, a professor of environmental microbiology at the University of Arizona, when you flush, aerosolized toilet funk is propelled as far as 6 feet, settling on the floor, the sink, and your toothbrush".

 

Less of a problem with Vacuum systems, they SUCK.

[dmwnc1959]

Less of a problem with Vacuum systems, they SUCK.

 

 

So, then 3 feet away with the toothbrush? ;)

[sjbdtz]

Yes....they're definately going to have trouble with EPIC:

 

http://epic.ncl.com/the-latest/in-the-news/article/?jid=153

 

 

Tonnes of trouble.

 

 

Jul 12, 2010 - Norwegian Epic Sets Booking Records

Norwegian Cruise Line's newest and most innovative ship launches with record breaking booking levels for the past two weeks

 

MIAMI - July 12, 2010 - Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Cruise Line's newest and largest Freestyle Cruising ship ever, has set record-breaking booking levels for the past two weeks on the heels of its successful inaugural activities in Europe, New York and Miami. The booking volume for the week ended July 10, 2010 is the highest this year, second only to the previous week ended July 3, 2010. Media exposure during the inaugural activities and positive reviews from both travel partners and the press are helping to fuel the demand.

[dmwnc1959]

Yes....they're definately going to have trouble with EPIC: http://epic.ncl.com/the-latest/in-the-news/article/?jid=153

 

Tonnes of trouble.

 

Jul 12, 2010 - Norwegian Epic Sets Booking Records

Norwegian Cruise Line's newest and most innovative ship launches with record breaking booking levels for the past two weeks

 

MIAMI - July 12, 2010 - Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Cruise Line's newest and largest Freestyle Cruising ship ever, has set record-breaking booking levels for the past two weeks on the heels of its successful inaugural activities in Europe, New York and Miami. The booking volume for the week ended July 10, 2010 is the highest this year, second only to the previous week ended July 3, 2010. Media exposure during the inaugural activities and positive reviews from both travel partners and the press are helping to fuel the demand.

 

Yup, sounds like a huge failure for NCL as some predicted... :eek: ... shame about the 'booking records' too. :rolleyes:

[Music City]

Yes....they're definately going to have trouble with EPIC:

 

http://epic.ncl.com/the-latest/in-the-news/article/?jid=153

 

 

Tonnes of trouble.

 

 

Jul 12, 2010 - Norwegian Epic Sets Booking Records

Norwegian Cruise Line's newest and most innovative ship launches with record breaking booking levels for the past two weeks

 

MIAMI - July 12, 2010 - Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Cruise Line's newest and largest Freestyle Cruising ship ever, has set record-breaking booking levels for the past two weeks on the heels of its successful inaugural activities in Europe, New York and Miami. The booking volume for the week ended July 10, 2010 is the highest this year, second only to the previous week ended July 3, 2010. Media exposure during the inaugural activities and positive reviews from both travel partners and the press are helping to fuel the demand.

 

LOL! Sheehan the Bean Counter is such a card!

 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[Music City]

Yup, sounds like a huge failure for NCL as some predicted... :eek: ... shame about the 'booking records' too. :rolleyes:

 

And just what were those records that were broken?

[Music City]

When I opened my 210 seat, 5000 sq ft restaurant, we did a "soft opening", and we removed certain tables to the 'meeting room', which we left closed-off. This effectively reduced the seating by about 60 spaces and gave the staff and kitchen a lot more leeway in getting up to speed. When things were in-hand, then we deployed the extra tables, and after 3 or 4 weeks, we opened up the meeting room.

 

So yes, this type of thing happens all the time.

 

:cool:

 

What kind of restaurant? Is it still open?

[sjbdtz]

What kind of restaurant? Is it still open?

 

Will you be in Toronto sometime soon? Need an invite?

[dmwnc1959]

And just what were those records that were broken?

 

Read Post #43

[sjbdtz]

LOL! Sheehan the Bean Counter is such a card!

 

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

 

Seems pretty clear that the booking volume for EPIC pre-sailing was lower than the rate of bookings now that the ship has been seen, experienced, and reviewed.

 

One might surmise that the negativity based on photos, rumours, and the like was overcome by the actuality.

 

The ship is impressive and it would appear people are realizing that.