Trip Report - San Juan - 8/2 to 8/9

[Dicenator]

This isn't cruise ship related but it does concern playing craps in San Juan which some members of this board might do if their cruise is leaving from San Juan.

 

My wife and I were at Isla Verde Beach, a suburb of San Juan from Monday, 8/2 through Monday 8/9. This area is where all the big name hotels with casinos are located and they were all within walking distance of the condo we were renting.

We started this vacation on Sunday 8/1 when we stayed at a Wyndham hotel near the Philadelphia airport. This hotel was only 2 miles from the Chester Harrah’s casino in Pennsylvania so we had to stop in to check it out on Sunday night. Here is my opinion.

Chester Raceway Park & Casino (Harrahs)

The place is downright ugly. It looks like it was converted from a warehouse or old factory building. The AC ductwork and piping was all visible up at the ceiling level. Now it was 5:00 PM when we were there and the place was filled with seniors playing the slots. You could hardly find a free machine.

They had 6 craps tables, all of which were 12 feet long with micro fiber surfaces and were bouncy similar to the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. Every table was filled with 12 players each, all of whom from the time I watched were Chicken Chuckers. There were 4 tables open with the following bet minimums; one at $10, 2 at $15 and one at $25. I was only there for about 30 minutes observing the action and did not see anybody winning or getting on a good roll. I personally don’t see any reason that I would ever want to play there.

Puerto Rico Casinos at Isla Verde (5 total)

First for some general information that applies to all of them. They all allow only 2X odds and do not have hopping proposition bets. They do have craps and yo and hard ways and horn bets. Every casino has a governmental casino commission member in presence, although I don’t know if they are there every minute that the casino is open.

All of them will serve you free drinks, but what I found incredible is that they will serve you free food right at the tables. You can order soup, sandwiches and even ice cream and eat while you are playing. I didn’t partake in this but my wife had soup a couple of times while she was playing 3 card poker.

Another generality that I found is that they are all sweat joints to varying degrees, which I will describe in more detail a little later. I experienced heat and harassment almost every day in all 3 casinos that had craps.

El San Juan

This casino is famous because Frank Sinatra and the Rat Pack used to spend a lot of time there back in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. It is very small by our standards being only 13,000 square feet and has 2 craps tables both of which are 12 feet long with micro fiber surfaces. Only one table was open while I was there. The bounce was a little bit more than neutral and was very playable. Craps was only open in the evening.

This casino is very ornate with dark wood paneling covering the walls with huge chandeliers hanging from the casino. It is very brightly lit. During the week, Monday through Thursday the table minimum was $5. Over the weekend from Friday through Sunday the minimum was $10. What I found very strange was their $5 minimum applies to every bet on the table. You can’t make a $1 any craps bet, it has to be $5. The same applies to hard way bets. When the table min. was $10 you couldn’t make a $5 odds bet, it had to be $10 minimum and the hard ways had to be $10 also. Craps was not open in the afternoon only in the evening around 7:00.

Embassy Suites

The size was only 6,000 square feet and they had no craps table. My wife played 3 card poker, blackjack and roulette here. We went there I think on 3 afternoons for maybe an hour. We found that the dealers and the pit bosses were extremely friendly and it was a nice place to kill a little time. This hotel casino is not on the beach.

Intercontinental

This casino was the closest to the condo we were staying at, approximately 3/8 of a mile. The crew and pit bosses were friendly here also. It was very plain in appearance and about 10,000 square feet. They had one craps table which was 12 feet long with a felt surface. The only problem was that because it is their slow season they had the craps table shut down and it will not reopen until October. I found a very willing penny slot machine here which I took about $100 from during the week.

Ritz Carlton

This was the second nicest casino next to the El San Juan. It also was about 13,000 square feet and was very brightly lit. It was about ¾ mile from our condo. There were 2 craps table both of which were 12 feet long with felt surfaces which were very bouncy similar to the Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. They only had one table open and it was only open in the evening. There were $5 table minimums all week long and they allowed $1 bets in the middle but unlike the El San Juan you could not make bets for the dealers. This place was a sweat joint and did and said things to us that I’ve never heard in Atlantic City.

Marriot

This place was the farthest away, about a mile from our condo. Thank God that this place sucked so bad that we only went there once. It was the only casino that had craps open in the afternoon. It was the largest at 18,000 square feet with 2 craps tables both of which were 12 footers with felt surfaces, but again only one was open. They had $1 prop bets but you could not bet for the dealers. My wife threw two hands here and they were on her constantly to hit the wall. She 7ed out on her 3rd throw the first hand and then redeemed herself with an 18 throw hand. Here’s what they did to me. With my notebook and pen and the way I was setting the dice and throwing them, the box man called the table games supervisor as soon as they saw my first throw. I made 3 points in my first 7 throws with one being short. Well I heard about it from the TGM and the Box man and then about 5 throws later I unintentionally threw a Dead Cat bounce of a hard 10 and they declared a no roll despite nobody having any bets on the 10 or hard 10. We left right after I 7ed out having made 14 throws with 3 points and one come out win. We were happy to leave there with some of their money and decided right on the spot that we would not play there again despite the table probably being the best of all the ones that we played on. This was the first time I’ve ever had a no-roll called on me in almost 3 years of playing craps.

Harrassment and Heat

I just described what happened at the Marriot and why we only went there once.

At the Ritz Carlton the first time we went there my wife made a good first hand of 21 throws making 3 points. She was at the hook and missed the wall maybe 3 times and she heard about it from the box man each time. What was worse than that was halfway through her hand he told her that she was taking too much time to throw and to speed it up. “Just pick them up and throw them he said”. She’s not as fast as I am but she is far faster than a lot of people I see in AC. There was a high roller with about $1000 on the table when she was rolling and he was making money which I think triggered this crap.

Here’s what happened to me. I was shooting from SR1 and after doing pretty well for the first 2 nights on night 3 the stickman would keep his hand and stick out over the table about 6 inches when I was shooting. This was enough to throw my shooting off so each night we stopped playing when he would do this. It was one specific stickman. For the last 2 nights I had the last laugh and threw from SL1 and did very well. I was using a Parr throw and found that on this bouncy table that if I kept the throw low with a little more backspin it worked absolutely fine. On the last night the stickman told me that if I didn’t bet on every shooter he would pass me by on my next turn. Well, I wasn’t going to do that since everybody at the table was a chicken feeder other than me and my wife. So I colored in with my profit and left. The table was full at this time and they were all speaking Spanish non-stop and it was getting annoying.

The first night at the El San Juan they immediately started in with hitting the wall mostly with my wife who does have issues here since she insists on shooting from the hook. I had a few short throws in my first hand in trying to get the feel of the table. With my second hand of 34 throws both of us were out on all the numbers and we had the dealers with us for most of this hand. This pretty much ended all of this crap.

However, on Thursday night when I was making a lot of good hands with my Underhand throw, a new box man and dealer started playing bongos with their hands on the rail non-stop when the dice came to me. It was being done intentionally to distract me since they weren’t doing this for any other of the 7 or 8 players at the table. So my wife said to them “is this craps or band practice” and the dealer stopped but the box man kept it up. It wasn’t as distracting as they were hoping because my hand was 22 throws.

We don’t experience this sort of thing in Atlantic City where we play and I would appreciate any comments that players who have played in the Caribbean may have on this issue. This is the first time that we have played craps on one of the islands and for all I know they would use the same tactics in Aruba, Curacao, Dominican Republic etc.

Now for my results. I’m not going to list every single throw just the total for each hand.

Night #1 8/2/10

El San Juan casino

Hand #1 Underhand 9 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #2 Parr 34 throws 3 points & 4 come out winners

Hand #3 Parr 26 throws 4 points & 1 come out winner

Afternoon #2 8/3/10

Marriot Casino

Hand #1 Parr 14 throws 3 points & 1 come out winner

Night #2 8/3/10

Ritz Carlton Casino

Hand #1 Parr 11 throws 2 points & 2 come out winners

Hand #2 Parr 12 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Night #3 8/4/19

El San Juan Casino

Hand #1 Parr 5 throws 1 point

Hand #2 Parr 10 throws 5 come out winners

Hand #3 Parr 7 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #4 U Hand 12 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #5 U Hand 7 throws 1 point

Hand #6 U Hand 22 throws 3 points & 3 come out winners

Night #4 8/5/10

El San Juan Casino

Hand #1 Parr 9 throws 1 come out winner

Hand #2 U Hand 6 throws

Hand #3 U Hand 20 throws 1 point

Hand #4 U Hand 12 throws 2 points & 3 come out winners

Hand #5 U Hand 16 throws 2 points

Hand #7 U Hand 21 throws 2 points & 3 come out winners

Hand #8 U Hand 5 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #9 Parr 6 throws 1 point

Hand #10 Parr 24 throws 2 points & 1 come out winner

Hand #11 Parr 6 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #12 U Hand 19 throws 1 point

Night #5 8/6/10

Ritz Carlton Casino

Hand #1 Parr 8 throws 1 come out winner

El San Juan Casino

Hand #1 U Hand 10 throws 1 point

Hand #2 U Hand 11 throws 1 point

Night #6 8/7/10

Ritz Carlton Casino

Hand #1 Parr 7 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #2 Parr 9 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #3 Parr 11 throws 1 point & 1 come out winner

Hand #4 Parr 22 throws 5 points & 1 come out winner

Hand #5 Parr 16 throws 2 points

Night #7 8/8/10

Ritz Carlton Casino

Hand #1 Parr 12 throws

My wife did very well making 302 total throws in 24 hands for an Average Roll Length of 12.6 with 26 points made.

For myself my total for Underhand is 170 throws in 13 hands for an Average Roll Length of 13.1 with 17 points made.

For Parr my total was 240 throws in 19 hands for an Average Roll Length of 12.6 with 29 points made.

In conclusion, I didn’t use my Underhand throw as much as I was hoping to. Without the ability to practice daily, my throwing mechanics were terrible so I stopped using it. Parr worked great for me from SR1 and SL1 particularly when you look at 29 points made in 19 hands.

Would I do this vacation again? The answer is NO. Everywhere in the San Juan area is walls, fences, gates locks and barbed wire. The condo complex where I stayed was only 2 blocks from all of these major hotels and yet it was surrounded by a 10 foot high chain link fence with barbed wire on top. You needed to unlock a gate to go to the pool and 2 gates to go to the beach. There was a security guard on the premises 24/7. The last and final reason is that playing craps here was not fun despite coming home being up close to $600.

 

 

Dicenator

[F22Smitty]

Outstanding post!!!

 

I really like the detail and experience you had at each venue.

 

Thanks

 

By the way what is a Chicken Chucker, a Parr thrower, and a Underhand thrower.

 

I throw 3 finger underhand and have done good using that.

[Dicenator]

Someone who is a random roller is called a Chicken Feeder. I just renamed them a Chicken chunker. A random roller is someone who doesn't set the dice but just picks them up, rattles them around in their hand and lets them fly.

 

I also see people who set the dice and then toss them randomly.

 

Dicenator

[Dicenator]

F22Smitty

 

I use 2 different throws as you saw in my trip report. First is a Parr Overhand on-axis throw.

 

I also use the Underhand throw using the 3 finger front grip. About a month ago I came up with a modification to this grip which has done wonders for me. The two dice stay 1/4 inch apart in flight and in their landing. Before my modification they would be 1 inch apart. Using my grip modification for the last month covering 34 hands my average roll length has been 14.09 and I've made 52 points in those 34 hands. If you would like me to give you the details send me an email at rmiller@itcmed.com

[MrCo9]

. The table was full at this time and they were all speaking Spanish non-stop and it was getting annoying.

Dicenator

Ummm, you do realize you were in Puerto Rico, right???

 

 

Funny stuff man, funny stuff.

[Dicenator]

I know I was in Puerto Rico but being in a Resort hotel I was expecting most of the players to be tourists from the states. This was true most nights but this one night my wife and myself were the only tourists at the table.

 

 

Dicenator

[mr. cruiser]

I know I was in Puerto Rico but being in a Resort hotel I was expecting most of the players to be tourists from the states. This was true most nights but this one night my wife and myself were the only tourists at the table.

 

 

Dicenator

I enjoy reading your posts and wish you nothing but success. You obviously enjoy what you do at the table and how you do it, how did you get into throwing dice like this.

[Casino Player]

Someone who is a random roller is called a Chicken Feeder. I just renamed them a Chicken chunker. A random roller is someone who doesn't set the dice but just picks them up, rattles them around in their hand and lets them fly.

 

I also see people who set the dice and then toss them randomly.

 

Dicenator

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO Dicenator: Instead of a Chicken Chunker how about a Chicken Chucker? Just a thought.

[Dicenator]

Ken,

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by throwing the dice the way I do. The average random roller will average slightly over 8 throws per hand. This includes comeout throws in the count. Once the point is established he will average a 7 out every 6 throws. Obviously this is a long term average and I have seen random rollers make really great hands. In fact the world record of 154 throws was made by a random roller.

 

I built a practice rig at home and I practice my throwing 15 minutes to 30 minutes per day and I've been doing that for almost 2 1/2 years now. So after all this time and all this practicing my average roll length is right around 12 throws per hand. So I'm 4 throws per hand better than a random roller on average. Out of these 4 throws lets assume that 3 of them are paying box numbers. This is enough to turn a negative expectation game like craps into a positive expectation game for me on certain bets. I don't make prop bets other than a 3 way on my comeout throws. I don't make hard way bets. I'm strickly pass line with odds and place bets most of the time on the inside numbers 4,6,8 and 9. If I'm on a really good roll with 4's and 10's showing up I will make bets on them also.

 

I will not bet on random rollers unless they are showing some kind of hot streak.

 

I hope this gives you the answer you were looking for.

 

Dicenator

[mr. cruiser]

Ken,

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by throwing the dice the way I do. The average random roller will average slightly over 8 throws per hand. This includes comeout throws in the count. Once the point is established he will average a 7 out every 6 throws. Obviously this is a long term average and I have seen random rollers make really great hands. In fact the world record of 154 throws was made by a random roller.

 

I built a practice rig at home and I practice my throwing 15 minutes to 30 minutes per day and I've been doing that for almost 2 1/2 years now. So after all this time and all this practicing my average roll length is right around 12 throws per hand. So I'm 4 throws per hand better than a random roller on average. Out of these 4 throws lets assume that 3 of them are paying box numbers. This is enough to turn a negative expectation game like craps into a positive expectation game for me on certain bets. I don't make prop bets other than a 3 way on my comeout throws. I don't make hard way bets. I'm strickly pass line with odds and place bets most of the time on the inside numbers 4,6,8 and 9. If I'm on a really good roll with 4's and 10's showing up I will make bets on them also.

 

I will not bet on random rollers unless they are showing some kind of hot streak.

 

I hope this gives you the answer you were looking for.

 

Dicenator

Thats the kind of info I like to read as I just learned the game about a year ago and like to find out how other people play. I wish I started years ago, this game is fun:D

[Casino Player]

Thats the kind of info I like to read as I just learned the game about a year ago and like to find out how other people play. I wish I started years ago, this game is fun:D

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO mr. cruiser: Congrats on learning how to play craps. It is a fun game and the most social game to play in the casino. There are several good books on how to play. Some people like to make Pass Line bets along with Come bets. Some like to make Place bets. Others like to make Don't Pass bets. Some like to make Don't Come bets while others like to make Lay bets. You do have choices.

[mr. cruiser]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO mr. cruiser: Congrats on learning how to play craps. It is a fun game and the most social game to play in the casino. There are several good books on how to play. Some people like to make Pass Line bets along with Come bets. Some like to make Place bets. Others like to make Don't Pass bets. Some like to make Don't Come bets while others like to make Lay bets. You do have choices.

Or anti-social, I was at one of our local casinos over the weekend shooting and a guy decides to throw a nickel on midnight and I end up rolling it twice. Didn't even buy me a beer:rolleyes::D