A Not Quite Subjective Food Quality Post

[Hobbins]

Ok, a starting disclaimer – this is not intended to represent anyone else’s experience or taste and if you don’t agree with my results you are welcome to provide your own data. I will be happy to see other data. This post does not consider ambiance, selection, or service, just the food (and not in the buffet).

The Purpose:

As I read good and bad things about the food on NCL and how the food has gone downhill, I realized that I had data spanning the time period from October 2005 until April 2010 that could be used to determine if the quality of food has changed, and by how much, at least for me and my DD (in this case that means ‘designated driver’ – I’m not saying I like the Martini Clinic or anything but – oh, wait, maybe I am!). No worries, it’s just an endearing name I call my significant other.

The Method:

My DD and I have taken six NCL cruises since 2005 where we rated our dishes with the scale being, poor, fair, good, very good, and excellent. By assigning numerical weights to each (1 through 5) it is possible to determine an average score per dish for each cruise. While not scientific, we were able to learn some interesting things using originally subjective data. We did not know what the outcome would be before we started.

What We Learned:

The first thing that became apparent was that I enjoyed the food significantly more than my DD, in general, until our last cruise 4/11/10 on the Jewel, where we both had exactly the same result.

The second thing we noticed was that our food quality rating, on average, has pretty much stayed the same since 2005. Yes, STAYED THE SAME (on average up to April).

The third thing was that there was a slight difference among the ships with top honors going to the Dawn.

The last thing I want to mention here is that I believe NCL was able to keep the quality about the same by providing fewer Excellent scoring dishes along with fewer Poor scoring dishes on the later cruises. Data suggests that more dishes scored in the mid-range lately compared to previously.

The Data:

Remember, these numbers relate to the ratings from poor to excellent. For instance, a ‘3.50’ would be half way between good and very good.

Dawn 10/9/2005 DD-3.43 Me-3.57 Overall score – 3.50

Dawn 11/26/2006 DD-3.17 Me-3.64 Overall score – 3.39

Gem 4/5/2008 DD-3.07 Me-3.50 Overall score – 3.29

Dawn 11/2/2008 DD-3.21 Me-3.67 Overall score – 3.44

Dawn 10/18/2009 DD-3.36 Me-3.64 Overall score – 3.50

Jewel 4/11/2010 DD-3.32 Me-3.32 Overall score – 3.32

More on Specific Dishes:

Just to give readers a sense of the dishes involved (in the event they are not already dozed off or on another post), I have listed below some of the ‘exact’ (almost) menu items that scored ‘excellent’, and some that scored ‘poor’.

Excellent:

- Crostada savory farmhouse style buffalo mozzarella with wild mushrooms

- Braised Lamb shank, mashed potatoes, bean medley with brown sauce

- Chilled avocado and tomatillo soup

- Chilled cream of apricots and peaches soup

- English cut strip loin, Yorkshire pudding, roasted potato horseradish cream

Poor:

- Beef Wellington, broccoli, béarnaise sauce

- Fish and Chips at the Blue Lagoon (soggy and cold even though it was sent back once)

- Chilled Macadamia soup with pineapple oil

- Seafood Hot Pot, jasmine rice, lemon grass coconut broth

Note: A dish rated ‘poor’ usually had a combination of faults including but not limited to temperature, balance, seasoning, texture, and flavor quality (as in freshness or off-taste). Presentation was usually very good and not considered as a criterion.

Final Thoughts:

The question now is whether quality has taken a turn. We will continue to judge our meals on an upcoming cruise in October. Can’t wait to see what happens. Regardless of the outcome we expect to have a good time. Some of our best times involved some of the worst meals, primarily because of the people we have had the fortune to be with.

The only reason I am doing this is to try giving a little back to the CC community. I have learned a lot from both the complainers and the cheerleaders, so please, keep posting all kinds of stuff, not just the good stuff.

[AWEST84532]

Oh wow, I had the English cut strip loin, Yorkshire pudding, roasted potato horseradish cream on the Spirit this past January and it was way up there on the excellent list for me! Memories!

[johnql]

I appreciate the amount of thought and work that went into the OP's ratings and I respect the OP's opinions. However, how does this differ from any other subjective review of food? How is it "a not quite subjective food quality post"? It's still pretty much entirely subjective.

[lifeoncruise]

I appreciate the amount of thought and work that went into the OP's ratings and I respect the OP's opinions. However, how does this differ from any other subjective review of food? How is it "a not quite subjective food quality post"? It's still pretty much entirely subjective.

 

That is what I was thinking as I read the OP's post. It is nice that the OP has historical 'data' but the end result is still subjective to the opinion of the one eating the food. The beauty of cruising for me is that if I don't like the food, I don't have to finish what was presented. I am free to request a different meal or look for other offerings at the buffet. Anyone who goes hungry on a cruise is simply looking for an excuse to diet. ;)

[newmexicoNita]

Ok, a starting disclaimer – this is not intended to represent anyone else’s experience or taste and if you don’t agree with my results you are welcome to provide your own data. I will be happy to see other data. This post does not consider ambiance, selection, or service, just the food (and not in the buffet).

The Purpose:

As I read good and bad things about the food on NCL and how the food has gone downhill, I realized that I had data spanning the time period from October 2005 until April 2010 that could be used to determine if the quality of food has changed, and by how much, at least for me and my DD (in this case that means ‘designated driver’ – I’m not saying I like the Martini Clinic or anything but – oh, wait, maybe I am!). No worries, it’s just an endearing name I call my significant other.

The Method:

My DD and I have taken six NCL cruises since 2005 where we rated our dishes with the scale being, poor, fair, good, very good, and excellent. By assigning numerical weights to each (1 through 5) it is possible to determine an average score per dish for each cruise. While not scientific, we were able to learn some interesting things using originally subjective data. We did not know what the outcome would be before we started.

What We Learned:

The first thing that became apparent was that I enjoyed the food significantly more than my DD, in general, until our last cruise 4/11/10 on the Jewel, where we both had exactly the same result.

The second thing we noticed was that our food quality rating, on average, has pretty much stayed the same since 2005. Yes, STAYED THE SAME (on average up to April).

The third thing was that there was a slight difference among the ships with top honors going to the Dawn.

The last thing I want to mention here is that I believe NCL was able to keep the quality about the same by providing fewer Excellent scoring dishes along with fewer Poor scoring dishes on the later cruises. Data suggests that more dishes scored in the mid-range lately compared to previously.

The Data:

Remember, these numbers relate to the ratings from poor to excellent. For instance, a ‘3.50’ would be half way between good and very good.

Dawn 10/9/2005 DD-3.43 Me-3.57 Overall score – 3.50

Dawn 11/26/2006 DD-3.17 Me-3.64 Overall score – 3.39

Gem 4/5/2008 DD-3.07 Me-3.50 Overall score – 3.29

Dawn 11/2/2008 DD-3.21 Me-3.67 Overall score – 3.44

Dawn 10/18/2009 DD-3.36 Me-3.64 Overall score – 3.50

Jewel 4/11/2010 DD-3.32 Me-3.32 Overall score – 3.32

More on Specific Dishes:

Just to give readers a sense of the dishes involved (in the event they are not already dozed off or on another post), I have listed below some of the ‘exact’ (almost) menu items that scored ‘excellent’, and some that scored ‘poor’.

Excellent:

- Crostada savory farmhouse style buffalo mozzarella with wild mushrooms

- Braised Lamb shank, mashed potatoes, bean medley with brown sauce

- Chilled avocado and tomatillo soup

- Chilled cream of apricots and peaches soup

- English cut strip loin, Yorkshire pudding, roasted potato horseradish cream

Poor:

- Beef Wellington, broccoli, béarnaise sauce

- Fish and Chips at the Blue Lagoon (soggy and cold even though it was sent back once)

- Chilled Macadamia soup with pineapple oil

- Seafood Hot Pot, jasmine rice, lemon grass coconut broth

Note: A dish rated ‘poor’ usually had a combination of faults including but not limited to temperature, balance, seasoning, texture, and flavor quality (as in freshness or off-taste). Presentation was usually very good and not considered as a criterion.

Final Thoughts:

The question now is whether quality has taken a turn. We will continue to judge our meals on an upcoming cruise in October. Can’t wait to see what happens. Regardless of the outcome we expect to have a good time. Some of our best times involved some of the worst meals, primarily because of the people we have had the fortune to be with.

The only reason I am doing this is to try giving a little back to the CC community. I have learned a lot from both the complainers and the cheerleaders, so please, keep posting all kinds of stuff, not just the good stuff.

and you decided 6 months after sailing to post this? very interesting..

 

NIta

[DocJohnB]

and you decided 6 months after sailing to post this? very interesting..

 

NIta

Well Nita,

 

She pretty much explained that in her last paragraph, IMO. She is talking about "cruises" that date back 5 years, not just her last one six months ago.

 

Like others, though, I am a bit confused by her use of the word "subjective". IMO this, like any food review, is indeed subjective.

[njhorseman]

Well Nita,

 

She pretty much explained that in her last paragraph, IMO. She is talking about "cruises" that date back 5 years, not just her last one six months ago.

 

Like others, though, I am a bit confused by her use of the word "subjective". IMO this, like any food review, is indeed subjective.

 

What does it matter if she is including cruises from 5 years ago, 25 years ago or however far back you want? What Nita was questioning is why, since their most recent cruise was six months ago, wasn't this posted a week after the last cruise, or a month after the last cruise, or at some time closer to when they took the most recent cruise? If it was posted 15 seconds after their last cruise it would still have the rankings from earlier cruises regardless of how long ago they were taken.

 

I do agree that this is just as subjective as any other review of food. Substituting a numerical scale from 1 to 5 for the words poor, fair, good, vey good and excellent doesn't make it objective, it just allows you to compute a numerical average.

[Don Haynes]

Frankly mass market cruise lines such as NCL aren't five star upscale restaurants. To serve up to 4,000 passsengers and another 1,000 crew one would be lucky to receive food of the quality as Applebees or Chilis mass market restaurant chains...

 

Which in my opinion NCL does. The food isn't fresh, much of it is frozen. Cruise lines don't get deliveries everyday alike five star upscale restaurants...

 

When passengers are choosing ships with the lowest fare in mind, the quality of food which is included with that fare will suffer. The bottom line is winning at the moment during this recession...

[MissRabbit]

What does it matter if she is including cruises from 5 years ago, 25 years ago or however far back you want? What Nita was questioning is why, since their most recent cruise was six months ago, wasn't this posted a week after the last cruise, or a month after the last cruise, or at some time closer to when they took the most recent cruise? If it was posted 15 seconds after their last cruise it would still have the rankings from earlier cruises regardless of how long ago they were taken.

 

I do agree that this is just as subjective as any other review of food. Substituting a numerical scale from 1 to 5 for the words poor, fair, good, vey good and excellent doesn't make it objective, it just allows you to compute a numerical average.

 

I don't think there is anything nefarious in why the OP posted now instead of 6 months ago. This was a survey over the last 5 years. For all we know, the OP fully intended on going another 5 years before posting the results. Perhaps a recent spate of "horrible food" posts spurred her into posting the results now (instead of waiting for another 5 years).

 

Like you said, the results don't change whether she posted now or immediately after the cruise, so why is anyone giving her grief over when she chose to post (or her reasoning for that choice).

 

As for the "subjectiveness" of her post, yes, her view on the food is subjective. However, and this I feel is why the OP said her post is "not quite" subjective, is because her and her husband are a constant factor in the entire thing. The end rating, whether it was 2.8 or 4.7, is entirely subjective based on how they enjoyed their meal. Of that, there is no doubt. But the fact remains, that over the course of 5 years, their rating of the food has remained relatively constant.

 

What does that mean for you and me? It means that while subjectively, we will enjoy or dislike the food as we see fit, but over the course of 5 years, based on her results, there is a high likelihood that we will enjoy or dislike the food as much 5 years ago, as we enjoy or dislike the food today. In other words, the food quality hasn't changed over the last 5 years. That's the "not quite subjective" portion of the OPs post.

 

Whether you choose to believe her results, is of course, entirely up to you. But i just thought challenging her on why she's posting NOW and taking her to task about the friggen title of her post and use of the word subjective, is simply petty.

[njhorseman]

I don't think there is anything nefarious in why the OP posted now instead of 6 months ago. This was a survey over the last 5 years. For all we know, the OP fully intended on going another 5 years before posting the results. Perhaps a recent spate of "horrible food" posts spurred her into posting the results now (instead of waiting for another 5 years).

 

Like you said, the results don't change whether she posted now or immediately after the cruise, so why is anyone giving her grief over when she chose to post (or her reasoning for that choice).

 

As for the "subjectiveness" of her post, yes, her view on the food is subjective. However, and this I feel is why the OP said her post is "not quite" subjective, is because her and her husband are a constant factor in the entire thing. The end rating, whether it was 2.8 or 4.7, is entirely subjective based on how they enjoyed their meal. Of that, there is no doubt. But the fact remains, that over the course of 5 years, their rating of the food has remained relatively constant.

 

What does that mean for you and me? It means that while subjectively, we will enjoy or dislike the food as we see fit, but over the course of 5 years, based on her results, there is a high likelihood that we will enjoy or dislike the food as much 5 years ago, as we enjoy or dislike the food today. In other words, the food quality hasn't changed over the last 5 years. That's the "not quite subjective" portion of the OPs post.

 

Whether you choose to believe her results, is of course, entirely up to you. But i just thought challenging her on why she's posting NOW and taking her to task about the friggen title of her post and use of the word subjective, is simply petty.

 

You're assuming that I agree with Nita's comment. I never said whether I did or didn't. I was objecting to DocJohnB's post because to me it made no sense.

 

By the way, it's a big leap of faith to conclude because the OP's ranking changes very little over the five years that any other person's ranking would follow suit. The menus have been changed substantially over that time, and just that alone can change any individual's subjective opinion of the food. For example, if they eliminated a lot of my favorite dishes and replaced them with things I don't like, then my current subjective opinion would no doubt be lower. If you, on the other hand, found the dishes that were eliminated weren't to your liking anyway and the new dishes were, then you're likely to give the current menu a higher rating than the earlier menus.

[salty dingo]

The subjective ratings are sort of like one person saying "I like broccoli" and the next person saying "I can't stand broccoli". So, is broccoli good or bad?

 

My point is, that other people's food reviews are meaningless unless you are pretty sure you share the same palette with that person (a scary thought, indeed!)

 

This goes for food critics in the Media as well!

[luddite]

Everyone has a palate. Not everyone likes the same things. The menu is a large palette deigned to appeal to a wide variety of palates. They bring food onto the ships on pallets, which is sorta indicative of their need to produce a lot of meals on a budget. Pilates is one method of avoiding the result of plating too many meals.

[DocJohnB]

What does it matter if she is including cruises from 5 years ago, 25 years ago or however far back you want? What Nita was questioning is why, since their most recent cruise was six months ago, wasn't this posted a week after the last cruise, or a month after the last cruise, or at some time closer to when they took the most recent cruise? If it was posted 15 seconds after their last cruise it would still have the rankings from earlier cruises regardless of how long ago they were taken.

 

I do agree that this is just as subjective as any other review of food. Substituting a numerical scale from 1 to 5 for the words poor, fair, good, vey good and excellent doesn't make it objective, it just allows you to compute a numerical average.

I guess my answer would have to be, why not? IMO, it really makes zero difference . . . . a day, a week, a year. Would it have changed a word in her post regarding the findings. I don't think so. Especially since the whole of the post was a 4 1/2 year period.

[spacewoman]

As one said the cruise lines are trying to keep fares down while keeping customer satisfaction up. NCL Jewel's 7 day food budget is between $250,000 to $350,000 depending on what needs to be replenished. They experience the up and down pricing of everything they purchase just like any restaurant, deli, etc. here in the states. To feed 2,300 passengers and 1,100 crew members on that budget and give a quality meal is quite a feat. Yes, some part of that money is returned in the specialty restaurant charges, but quite frankly it certainly isn't a breaking even based on the charges.

 

While at first I thought the post was rain man with OCD:eek: I appreciate the fact that they felt NCL had not tossed aside quality for quantity in the years they've cruised. I, for one, did not leave the Jewel hungry. Everything was delicious. Hot foods, hot, cold foods cold. As confirmed from our galley tour they can only have a few things made a head of time, otherwise spoilage becomes a huge issue. Now figure in that they are feed 2,300 people in the course of say 3 hours each meal time. WHEW!

 

Kathy

[Hobbins]

I was hoping that trying to give a little back to the CC community would not result in any kind of controversy or non-helpful commenting but, knowing how some of the people are here, I sort of expected it. This post is not for everyone. If you feel you must pick the information apart, it is not meant for you. If you can get any kind of value at all out of it, that’s great and kind of what I was going for. Simply put, take it or leave it, just don’t have a cow over it.

Some quick answers for you:

Why “not quite subjective”? – see post from MissRabbit, at least someone gets it. I never said it was objective because it isn’t.

Why now? – Read the second paragraph on ‘Purpose’. I just realized I had this data and wanted to know if the quality had gone downhill for the two of us. YMMV.

By the way, I always enjoy observing how the ‘crowd mentality’ affects the direction a post takes. Sometimes it’s like a lynch mob with many of the CC elite coming out to feed. This is actually a strong point in my book and makes for more interesting reading but it’s not a good way to get people to share.

[DocJohnB]

Why “not quite subjective”? – see post from MissRabbit, at least someone gets it. I never said it was objective because it isn’t.

I wish you would have explained this in your OP. With that explanation, your subject line makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks.

[DMH15]

I was hoping that trying to give a little back to the CC community would not result in any kind of controversy or non-helpful commenting but, knowing how some of the people are here, I sort of expected it. This post is not for everyone. If you feel you must pick the information apart, it is not meant for you. If you can get any kind of value at all out of it, that’s great and kind of what I was going for. Simply put, take it or leave it, just don’t have a cow over it.

 

Some quick answers for you:

 

Why “not quite subjective”? – see post from MissRabbit, at least someone gets it. I never said it was objective because it isn’t.

 

Why now? – Read the second paragraph on ‘Purpose’. I just realized I had this data and wanted to know if the quality had gone downhill for the two of us. YMMV.

 

 

By the way, I always enjoy observing how the ‘crowd mentality’ affects the direction a post takes. Sometimes it’s like a lynch mob with many of the CC elite coming out to feed. This is actually a strong point in my book and makes for more interesting reading but it’s not a good way to get people to share.

 

I hear ya!!! When I was new to CC I was greatly flamed. I didn't let that keep me from making friends on here and I remember those in the beginning who were kind and those who were not. There are all kinds.

 

It is okay to speak your mind, but anything, even negatives, can be done with kindness.

[pappagene]

The subjective ratings are sort of like one person saying "I like broccoli" and the next person saying "I can't stand broccoli". So, is broccoli good or bad?

 

My point is, that other people's food reviews are meaningless unless you are pretty sure you share the same palette with that person (a scary thought, indeed!)

 

This goes for food critics in the Media as well!

 

Your thoughts are my thoughts on this. You could tell you that one thing was great and another really bad, but until you try the food, it really doesn't mean that much to me. IMHO, during the 15 years I have cruised, i have never had really bad food. I have had some things that I tried and didn't like, but that didn't make them bad. If I had something that were welcomed by my taste buds, I would order something else that I knew that I would like.