Documentation questions - what should we do?

[71Corvette]

Ok, so usually I wouldn't have any documentation (e.g. passport) type questions, but this one really has my friance and I scratching our heads. This question became a much bigger question after watching the Oasis of the Seas show on TLC last night and seeing those poor folks denied bording...

 

So here's the situation...

1. My Fiance has two children from a previous marriage. The father is a total deadbeat and has been out of the picture for many years as she and the kids are under court-ordered protection from him (he has no custody rights).
   
2. My Fiance and I are getting married July 3, 2011 and she plans to take my last name
   
3. I plan to adopt the kids after we're married (we would start adoption proceedings before the wedding, but don't want to deal with the potential drama while planning our big day) and they will take my last name.
   
4. The kids currently have no passport and have their fathers last name on their birth certificate
   
5. This evening we booked a caribbean cruise for December 11, 2011
   

So, given that the adoption process will take a 3-4 months (according to our lawyer), and getting a passport takes 3-6 weeks, we're really concerned with the timeline. It looks like best case (if we put a rush on the passports) we would only have a week or two to spare.

 

Who should we talk to in order to understand how best to proceed given these circumstances? Obviously we will take the full paper trail documenting my fiance's divorce, name changes, and adoption, along with th protection order against the father, but will that be enough?

 

Should we just get the kids passports under their current names? Will they still be valid if their names change as a result of adoption? What name should we put on the reservation? This all seems like such a mess how do we know the answer we get will pass muster on boarding day??? I think my head is starting to spin....

 

This will be the kiddos first cruise and they would be devestated if we were denied boarding!

 

Do we win the award for the most convoluted documentation question ever? :D

[Cuizer2]

Getting married or changing your name does not invalidate your passport. Just keep the "paper trail".

 

Get the passports in the current name (kids passports are only good for five years anyway) and when they change their names, if questioned, produce the paper trail.

[Soleil09]

I agree with the pp.

[Twickenham]

I plan to adopt the kids after we're married (we would start adoption proceedings before the wedding, but don't want to deal with the potential drama while planning our big day) and they will take my last name.

 

This, for me, is what you have to reconsider. While I understand the not wanting to deal with this while planning a wedding, the fact is the best way to alleviate the timeline problem would be to commence adoption proceedings now. While ideally this should take 3-4 months, there can always be bumps in the road; doing this now means you have plenty of leeway time-wise to have this completed well before your wedding date.

Obviously, this has to be discussed with your lawyer and fiancee, and you have to make the best decision for you all in your circumstance.

[6rugrats]

I plan to adopt the kids after we're married (we would start adoption proceedings before the wedding, but don't want to deal with the potential drama while planning our big day) and they will take my last name.

 

 

I am confused about the "drama". Usually in these cases, the drama arises from conflict from the biological parent if they don't agree to the adoption. But if dad has had his rights terminated (is that correct?), where would the drama come from?

[sargenet]

We also watched this show and it left us with questions. I guess the rules changed because when my step-daughters were 11 and 13 we took them on a cruise. All they had were their birth certificates and their father was with them. (we were not married then)

 

This would have been 2003. He was a single father and hadn't seen the mother in 8 years. Just walked out of their life. She hung around maybe a year or so...then cut ties with everyone. Even the state of PA gave up trying to find her for child support.

 

How do the ships handle it when the other parent isn't in the child's life? Like they have no way to get a hold of the mother or father listed on the birth certificate?

 

I took my son on a cruise with my sister a couple years ago. My husband did not go so I had to have the notarized letter. They definately asked for it.

[Kerry's Girls]

 

How do the ships handle it when the other parent isn't in the child's life? Like they have no way to get a hold of the mother or father listed on the birth certificate?

 

I took my son on a cruise with my sister a couple years ago. My husband did not go so I had to have the notarized letter. They definately asked for it.

 

The ships handle it by denying boarding. It's the parent's responsibility to obtain and bring the paperwork that confirms they are allowed to take the child, even if it means going to court. And it's not just the ship a parent is dealing with, it's also authorities from the country you are leaving and entering.

 

Best,

Mia

[Cuizer2]

We also watched this show and it left us with questions. I guess the rules changed because when my step-daughters were 11 and 13 we took them on a cruise. All they had were their birth certificates and their father was with them. (we were not married then)

 

This would have been 2003. He was a single father and hadn't seen the mother in 8 years. Just walked out of their life. She hung around maybe a year or so...then cut ties with everyone. Even the state of PA gave up trying to find her for child support.

 

How do the ships handle it when the other parent isn't in the child's life? Like they have no way to get a hold of the mother or father listed on the birth certificate?

 

I took my son on a cruise with my sister a couple years ago. My husband did not go so I had to have the notarized letter. They definately asked for it.

 

It is very simple. You either have the necessary documentation, or you don't go. If need be, hire an attorney and go to court.

[rolloman]

Ok, so usually I wouldn't have any documentation (e.g. passport) type questions, but this one really has my friance and I scratching our heads. This question became a much bigger question after watching the Oasis of the Seas show on TLC last night and seeing those poor folks denied bording...

 

 

So here's the situation...

1. My Fiance has two children from a previous marriage. The father is a total deadbeat and has been out of the picture for many years as she and the kids are under court-ordered protection from him (he has no custody rights).
   
2. My Fiance and I are getting married July 3, 2011 and she plans to take my last name
   
3. I plan to adopt the kids after we're married (we would start adoption proceedings before the wedding, but don't want to deal with the potential drama while planning our big day) and they will take my last name.
   
4. The kids currently have no passport and have their fathers last name on their birth certificate
   
5. This evening we booked a caribbean cruise for December 11, 2011
   

So, given that the adoption process will take a 3-4 months (according to our lawyer), and getting a passport takes 3-6 weeks, we're really concerned with the timeline. It looks like best case (if we put a rush on the passports) we would only have a week or two to spare.

 

Who should we talk to in order to understand how best to proceed given these circumstances? Obviously we will take the full paper trail documenting my fiance's divorce, name changes, and adoption, along with th protection order against the father, but will that be enough?

 

Should we just get the kids passports under their current names? Will they still be valid if their names change as a result of adoption? What name should we put on the reservation? This all seems like such a mess how do we know the answer we get will pass muster on boarding day??? I think my head is starting to spin....

 

This will be the kiddos first cruise and they would be devestated if we were denied boarding!

 

Do we win the award for the most convoluted documentation question ever? :D

The simple answer is take your concern to your Travel Agent and have them work out with the cruiseline in advance what needs to be done and what will be acceptable. Taking advice on a serious issue like this from a bunch of armchair no it alls on Cruise Critic is probably not your best option.

[6rugrats]

The simple answer is take your concern to your Travel Agent and have them work out with the cruiseline in advance what needs to be done and what will be acceptable. Taking advice on a serious issue like this from a bunch of armchair no [sic] it alls on Cruise Critic is probably not your best option.

 

I don't see anyone being a "know it all". I never would advise someone to rely on any advice from a customer service agent at a cruiseline. The OP has been advised to consult an attorney, that he could be denied boarding without the proper documentation, and that sometimes it is necessary to go to court to obtain this authorization. All these answers are correct.

[71Corvette]

Thanks for the help folks. We will certainly be consulting with our lawyer, travel agent, and RCCL to fully understand what is required for documentation and paper trail. I think we're going to NOT get passports for the kids (it's a closed-loop cruise departing from San Juan) so that will alleviate that portion of the timeline issue. Dealing with only the birth certificates will be a lot easier. My DF has her divorce paperwork and will have our marriage certificate - that should connect all the dots (we'll confirm with RCCL separately).

 

Our heads were spinning thinking about this last night so it was good to get some objective opinions from folks here. Don't worry - we'll definitely complete our due-diligence. Nobody wants to be left at the pier!

 

As for the drama part I referred to... Well, we expect all will go well, but my DF's ex can be a bit 'unpredictable'. It wouldn't be suprising if he put up a huge stink just to make our lives more difficult. :rolleyes: In any case, we're going to stay positive and will hope for the best.

 

Thanks again everyone!

[rolloman]

This has happened to me. I had the paperwork' date=' so was allowed to continue.

Best,

Mia[/quote']

Of course you had the paperwork,,,,if you did not, you would not have been on the ship in the first place...AGAIN you do not even make sense, and are distorting this simple thread. So like I mentioned to the OP above, work with the cruiseline via yourself, travel agent or a lawyer to get the required documentation and have it in writing to submit to the cruiseline during check in.

[sargenet]

Here is a website that provides clarification and also has some contact numbers for additional information:

 

http://www.sondur.com/Solo_Parent_Minor.htm

 

I happened to check RCCL's policy but it did not say a letter was needed if just one parent was sailing with the minor child. It did say it was needed for children traveling with someone where the last names do not match....

HOWEVER...these rules have more to do with WHERE you are cruising and are actually set by the countries you are heading to.

 

Mexico has very strict rules so cruises to Mexico require more documentation. I found some posts from a few months ago where parent's who sailed to Bahamas did not get asked for the letter.

 

Even though this doesn't address the original posters message (they realize they need to get legal counsel) it is good information for any one else reading this thread who needs information about documentation.

 

Not everyone uses a travel agent. If someone were to book online and not talk to an agent, they may find themselves without the proper paperwork and get denied boarding.

[Sea Monster 2]

Hi OP, I used to issue passports abroad for the State Department, as well as assist US citizens in distress (i.e., undocumented or improperly documented kids, arrests, medical emergencies, etc). You absolutely should get passports for them now, because you can have them amended to change the kids' names when the adoptions are complete-- the same as a woman who gets married and takes her husband's name. I don't ever recommend traveling abroad without a passport, even when it is "permitted," because if you have a crisis you need that passport. When the adoptions are complete, you can go to a passport office to get them amended (with the paper trail in hand), or you can just get brand-new passports, which costs more money but will finalize everything for once and for all. Either one is fine for both travel and identification as a US citizen. Your fiancee will want to file all of her paperwork with the State Dept (info at the website in a previous post) to make sure that she is recognized as the sole responsible parent.

 

In the interim, your fiancee can give you a notarized statement saying that you are empowered to make decisions for the children during the cruise, since you will be the other responsible adult even though the adoption will not be finalized. And, as you mentioned, travel with notarized copies of the entire paper trail so that you guys don't have any problems.

 

Hope this helps!

[beachchick]

We also watched this show and it left us with questions. I guess the rules changed because when my step-daughters were 11 and 13 we took them on a cruise. All they had were their birth certificates and their father was with them. (we were not married then)

 

This would have been 2003. He was a single father and hadn't seen the mother in 8 years. Just walked out of their life. She hung around maybe a year or so...then cut ties with everyone. Even the state of PA gave up trying to find her for child support.

 

How do the ships handle it when the other parent isn't in the child's life? Like they have no way to get a hold of the mother or father listed on the birth certificate?

 

I took my son on a cruise with my sister a couple years ago. My husband did not go so I had to have the notarized letter. They definately asked for it.

 

Actually, the rules haven't changed, but Immigration agents and other officials have gotten stricter about enforcing the law. Any time one parent travels with minor children to another country without the other parent, the agents can require the traveling parent to prove that the other parent has approved the travel (or that the other parent has no parental rights or that the other parent has died, etc.). I know there have been many parental kidnappings, which has probably triggered the stricter scrutiny. The documentation that can prove this can be a notarized letter signed by the other parent, custody orders giving sole physical and legal custody to the traveling parent, court orders showing termination of parental rights, court orders showing that a judge has authorized the travel because the other parent is refusing solely to be vindictive or to "punish" the ex (I have to note that such behavior sets a horrible example and also punishes the children), or a death certificate of the other parent. I'd guess that in 71Corvette's case, adoption papers would be a good idea too, but I'm really not positive.

 

With situations where the other parent is unreachable or a deadbeat, a court can give sole physical and legal custody to the custodial parent or can authorize the specific travel. Some states do not allow a birth parent's rights to be terminated without extreme cause, so that's where a court order authorizing the specific travel might come in to play. (Note I do not say "deadbeat dad" because mothers can most certainly be deadbeat parents too!)

 

In your case, you were lucky that none of the agents (port, Immigration of all countries visited, Immigration back to the US) required you to produce documentation authorizing the travel. I'm so glad you had the letter when you needed it.:)

 

Thanks for the help folks. We will certainly be consulting with our lawyer, travel agent, and RCCL to fully understand what is required for documentation and paper trail. I think we're going to NOT get passports for the kids (it's a closed-loop cruise departing from San Juan) so that will alleviate that portion of the timeline issue. Dealing with only the birth certificates will be a lot easier. My DF has her divorce paperwork and will have our marriage certificate - that should connect all the dots (we'll confirm with RCCL separately).

 

Our heads were spinning thinking about this last night so it was good to get some objective opinions from folks here. Don't worry - we'll definitely complete our due-diligence. Nobody wants to be left at the pier!

 

As for the drama part I referred to... Well, we expect all will go well, but my DF's ex can be a bit 'unpredictable'. It wouldn't be suprising if he put up a huge stink just to make our lives more difficult. :rolleyes: In any case, we're going to stay positive and will hope for the best.

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

Two things. First, although they will be enough to prove your soon to be wife's identity, the divorce papers and new marriage certificate will not be enough to prove custody and travel rights with the children. For that you will need a copy of the custody order showing that the father has no rights and that an order of protection is in place. You might not be asked, but it would be awful if you were required to show documentation and didn't have it. I know it's a bunch of stuff to haul around, but you're doing the right thing making sure you have everything you need. Second, don't rely on what a cruise line agent tells you about required paperwork. I'm not kidding here--The cruise lines make it very clear that passengers are responsible for finding out exactly what documentation might be required and making sure they have it. Passengers are not given refunds if, for example, they don't have a required notarized letter or court documents, regardless of what a cruise line phone rep told you.

 

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding and creating a new family. Have a wonderful, unforgettable cruise!:D

 

beachchick

[Scooby450]

I am in a similar situation. First, in our state, the divorce decree shows the custody agreement. If the father does not have custody then you are better off then I am. In our case the Dad is back east and underground to avoid child support. We have applied for passport and filled out form stating that we have tried and cannot get ahold of him(there has been no communication in 7 years). State Department has been in contact with us and it is moving along but it has taken longer than the other applications we submitted.

 

Our challenge has been the 'right to travel' doc and 'medical consent' doc. Both of which requires his signature to be notarized. We have to go through his family to get it taken care of and they are almost as difficult to deal with as he is.

 

The document we used was a form found online that has Mom as the primary but it also gives me the ability to act for the child if Mom is not capable.

 

We have petitioned the court here, asking for a expedited hearing regarding custody, just in case we are unable to get Dad to do what is best for a wonderful young man that deserves to experience this vacation. Hard to convince the court that a judgement without notice(to the Dad) for the sake of a vacation warrants taking precidence over other cases in the system that have been filed folowing the traditional process.

 

We are filing for permanent sole custody in the best interest of the young man.

 

I don't understand people that act this way. This boy is a fantastic person. It is my honor to be in his life and experience it with him. His Dad is missing out and causing a lot of pain to this great kid.

 

Much success to you and may you have a wonderful cruise.

[Ula]

I am confused about the "drama". Usually in these cases, the drama arises from conflict from the biological parent if they don't agree to the adoption. But if dad has had his rights terminated (is that correct?), where would the drama come from?

 

Unfortunately, I know this one. The dead beat with full termination can show up in court to protest the name change. Even if it was the child that requested it.

[pabrett46]

Sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread here but my question is kinda related. What if the spouse is deceased? I have a death certificate and birth certificates for my children indicated my spouse was their father and I am the mother.. and we all have passports. Do we need anything else?

 

Thanks,