A review of reviews

[Zambini]

To be honest, this thread has grown so much, gone in so many subtle but different directions, and occupied so much of my time that I'm not even sure anymore what my question was. LOL. Maybe you are correct and I have answered my own question in a way, or perhaps it has evolved into a new question. Who knows.:) But I still think a lot of individual reviews are flawed by "personality." And those reviews do influence the overall rating, for better or worse. So I'm still not sure how useful that average is.

 

Nice catch, by the way, on my having completed the circle. Very astute of you! This little exercise was, perhaps, me thinking out loud as much as anything, that and a way to meet some of you "locals" in an entertaining way. I think it has been fairly successful in those regards, though some may have come to think of me in a less than affectionate manner.;) If my original intent was to influence or change the opinion of others, I suppose I have fallen flat on my face. It's been fun though.

 

It has been fun, always like to exercise the mental muscle.

 

I understand what you mean, I think you were on track earlier, the extreme highs get cancelled out by the extreme lows and the whole groaning, shuddering mass moves forward and spits out a rating, which seems to be on the mark, in my opinion, on the cruise ships and lines I have taken.

[Towel Critter]

Exactly what I'm trying to explain to MTL=CRUISEFAMILY above when I say "You simply can't rate anything in isolation".

 

What I'm also trying to explore is the consistently low ranking, over an extended period, with the same issues being raised over and over again.

 

Whatever flaws might exist in the reviewing process, the process applies equally across all ships and lines and as such (and as Zambini correctly observes) the accumulated rankings must therefore be given credence. The rankings are entirely in the context of all other reviews.

 

 

 

Possibly true ... but again irrelevant because "personality" would influence other reviews of other ships and other lines to the same extent. The comparative rankings are fair and meaninful.

Fair enough. Sorry for the brief reply, but I'm tired (it's a workday), and out of ammo for tonight. I do see your side of this, though. I hope you can see mine.

[MTL=CRUISEFAMILY]

Fair enough. Sorry for the brief reply, but I'm tired (it's a workday), and out of ammo for tonight. I do see your side of this, though. I hope you can see mine.

 

 

To all, that was a nice clean debate...Let's put this one to rest and I can't wait till the next round..

 

G'nite!

[Towel Critter]

@Zambini:

 

I was wondering... can you tell me the difference between the subject and background in your sig pic? They look about the same to me.:eek:

 

Pretty funny, btw.

[pmacher61]

I am reminded of a sign that hung on the wall of my law office:

 

Thank you for coming in to discuss your legal problems. We have not been able to cogently answer all of your questions or solve your problems. In some ways we feel we are more confused than ever, but now we are are confused about more important things and on a higher level.

[Zambini]

@Zambini:

 

I was wondering... can you tell me the difference between the subject and background in your sig pic? They look about the same to me.:eek:

 

Pretty funny, btw.

 

The subject is a Donkey or ***** in a well or hole.

 

Can I ask you this, do the ship rating here:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberpoll_all.cfm?rating=Overall&sort=Highest

 

Match up with your personal experiences on the cruises you have taken?

[Towel Critter]

The subject is a Donkey or ***** in a well or hole.

 

Can I ask you this, do the ship rating here:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberpoll_all.cfm?rating=Overall&sort=Highest

 

Match up with your personal experiences on the cruises you have taken?

Concerning the pic: Yes, I know, I was attempting a joke. I failed I guess.

 

Concerning the member poll: With a couple of exceptions, I've sailed primarily with CCL. Having never experienced the high end ships, it's hard for me to say how accurate the poll is overall. But the CCL scores fall reasonably close to where I would score them - 4 to 5. But bare in mind that I'm not a demanding person and my needs are few in regard to enjoying a cruise. I've never been pampered - don't have a desire to be - and choose my cruises primarily because of itinerary and/or price. I've never had what I would consider a bad cruise experience and don't anticipate having one. Give me the ocean, a balcony view, a clean cabin, and a few interesting ports of call and I'm happy.

 

Now I ask you, would a review written by me be the same animal as, say, a well to do wife of a neurosurgeon? I've not once in my life eaten at a five star restaurant. Never stayed in a five star hotel. I love CCL and have enjoyed every minute I've spent on one of their ships, have only been served one meal from them that raised my eyebrows. Would Mrs. Neurosurgeon feel the same? I dare say that she might give CCL a score of 2 - 3, instead of 4 - 5. See where I'm going with this?

[AndrewK]

... See where I'm going with this? ...

 

Yes, but it still doesn't invalidate the rankings.

 

It works both ways. It's quite reasonable and probably correct to assume that Mrs. Neurosurgeon would be likely to give a lower ranking to a "budget" line ... but how many Mrs. Neurosurgeons would choose a budget line anyway? ... and would her score be canceled by a budget cruiser scoring an up-market line high?

 

In an earlier post you discarded both the very low and very high scores ... but in reality there probably wasn't any need to do so. Because we have a large sample size those aberrant highs and lows tend to cancel each other.

 

The sample size must be taken into consideration. This isn't just one or two opinions ... it's thousands, over a significant time frame. While there will always be aberrations such as a Mrs. Neurosurgeon scoring an average line unreasonably low ... there's an equal chance there'll be a Mrs. Average scoring an upmarket line unreasonably high. Same with a "Mr. Grumpy" and a Mr. Happy ... they'll balance. Same with a Miss Risotto and a Miss Hamburger.

 

You've noted that the 4 to 5 for CCL are close to your own expectations. Surely it's clear that when MSC's average is so much lower they're not meeting expectations for a significant part of their customers in the same way that CCL are meeting the expectation of their customers.

[Zambini]

Concerning the pic: Yes, I know, I was attempting a joke. I failed I guess.

 

I know, I was mainly responding for our overseas friends in case they didn't get it;)

 

Now I ask you, would a review written by me be the same animal as, say, a well to do wife of a neurosurgeon? I've not once in my life eaten at a five star restaurant. Never stayed in a five star hotel. I love CCL and have enjoyed every minute I've spent on one of their ships, have only been served one meal from them that raised my eyebrows. Would Mrs. Neurosurgeon feel the same? I dare say that she might give CCL a score of 2 - 3, instead of 4 - 5. See where I'm going with this?

 

"Sigh"

 

I understand what you mean, I think you were on track earlier, the extreme highs get cancelled out by the extreme lows and the whole groaning, shuddering mass moves forward and spits out a rating, which seems to be on the mark, in my opinion, on the cruise ships and lines I have taken.

[Towel Critter]

Yes, but it still doesn't invalidate the rankings.

 

It works both ways. It's quite reasonable and probably correct to assume that Mrs. Neurosurgeon would be likely to give a lower ranking to a "budget" line ... but how many Mrs. Neurosurgeons would choose a budget line anyway? ... and would her score be canceled by a budget cruiser scoring an up-market line high?

 

In an earlier post you discarded both the very low and very high scores ... but in reality there probably wasn't any need to do so. Because we have a large sample size those aberrant highs and lows tend to cancel each other.

 

The sample size must be taken into consideration. This isn't just one or two opinions ... it's thousands, over a significant time frame. While there will always be aberrations such as a Mrs. Neurosurgeon scoring an average line unreasonably low ... there's an equal chance there'll be a Mrs. Average scoring an upmarket line unreasonably high. Same with a "Mr. Grumpy" and a Mr. Happy ... they'll balance. Same with a Miss Risotto and a Miss Hamburger.

 

You've noted that the 4 to 5 for CCL are close to your own expectations. Surely it's clear that when MSC's average is so much lower they're not meeting expectations for a significant part of their customers in the same way that CCL are meeting the expectation of their customers.

 

Funny stuff, Andrew. I mean Miss Risotto and company.

 

Okay, you win. Reviews matter. But I'm curious, why this mission to preach the gospel of avoid MSC??? Maybe they are bad (I'll find out soon enough), but it seems odd to me that you are consumed by this. Please explain. Inquiring minds want to know.

[MTL=CRUISEFAMILY]

You've noted that the 4 to 5 for CCL are close to your own expectations. Surely it's clear that when MSC's average is so much lower they're not meeting expectations for a significant part of their customers in the same way that CCL are meeting the expectation of their customers.

 

Here's a thought,

What if MSC just does not appeal to the American market?

Maybe Americans just try it and don't go back?

Does it make it a bad cruiseline?..or is it just not what they are used to.

 

How do Europeans rank MSC?

[Towel Critter]

Here's a thought,

What if MSC just does not appeal to the American market?

Maybe Americans just try it and don't go back?

Does it make it a bad cruiseline?..or is it just not what they are used to.

 

How do Europeans rank MSC?

This is off subject, but I noticed you are sailing on the NCL Dawn in February. First time? I've been on that ship and best as I can remember it was pretty nice. Have fun!

[MTL=CRUISEFAMILY]

This is off subject, but I noticed you are sailing on the NCL Dawn in February. First time? I've been on that ship and best as I can remember it was pretty nice. Have fun!

 

First time on NCL,

Two MSC Cruises turned us on to cruising

I am told that this a relaxed line and I will enjoy it.

[AndrewK]

... What if MSC just does not appeal to the American market?

 

That's a possibility ... but given that MSC are clearly trying to expand their operation into places like the US and Australia, they probably need to meet the expectations of those prospective markets. If any business ... cruiseline or whatever ... is offering a product which simply doesn't appeal to a significant part of their target market, the outcome is fairly obvious.

 

... Does it make it a bad cruiseline? ...

 

No, not at all. I don't think MSC is "bad" and I'm sure that a lot of others who post here have similar views. As I've indicated in a previous post, I didn't "hate" my Poesia cruise. I didn't sulk around for 18 days with a little black cloud over my head. I enjoyed my holiday ... of which the transatlantic cruise was just a part.

 

Having said that though, there were enough issues to convince us that we could do better (based on our collective cruising experience) with other cruise lines.

 

... How do Europeans rank MSC?

 

Difficult to know. The UK version of Cruise Critic gives MSC very similar ranking to this site. It could well be the case that the product appeals quite differently in Europe ... which would be fine if they were only selling it in Europe. Some products just don't do well in some regions ... so you either adapt to meet the market or you get out of the market.

[AndrewK]

... Okay, you win ...

 

Disappointing to see you view this as some sort of competition. :mad:

 

... I'm curious, why this mission to preach the gospel of avoid MSC??? ...

 

You assume too much. I have never suggested that anyone avoid MSC. I certainly don't have a "mission" and I think it's bordering on rudeness to suggest that I'm "consumed" by this. If you want to see examples of obsession and "preaching" go back and read some of the garbage posted by those here who refuse to accept the slightest criticism of MSC.

 

Everything I've posted here has been in response to the barrage of denial which my review met. Prior to my cruise I had never even visited this area of the forums.

 

I personally don't give a rats backside whether people decide to cruise with MSC or not ... but I refuse to sit back and be told by a blinkered minority that it was my imagination, or my "attitude", or that I don't understand the "Italian culture".

 

You've read my review. You've described it as "fair". The issues I raised were valid ... and the only reason I continue to post here is because my views and experiences continue to be challenged. If you try invalidating member's reviews by starting threads based on generalisations such as "negative reviews come from unhappy people" you should expect to get as good as you give.

[Deckhandoug]

Concerning the pic: Yes, I know, I was attempting a joke. I failed I guess.

 

Concerning the member poll: With a couple of exceptions, I've sailed primarily with CCL. Having never experienced the high end ships, it's hard for me to say how accurate the poll is overall. But the CCL scores fall reasonably close to where I would score them - 4 to 5. But bare in mind that I'm not a demanding person and my needs are few in regard to enjoying a cruise. I've never been pampered - don't have a desire to be - and choose my cruises primarily because of itinerary and/or price. I've never had what I would consider a bad cruise experience and don't anticipate having one. Give me the ocean, a balcony view, a clean cabin, and a few interesting ports of call and I'm happy.

 

Now I ask you, would a review written by me be the same animal as, say, a well to do wife of a neurosurgeon? I've not once in my life eaten at a five star restaurant. Never stayed in a five star hotel. I love CCL and have enjoyed every minute I've spent on one of their ships, have only been served one meal from them that raised my eyebrows. Would Mrs. Neurosurgeon feel the same? I dare say that she might give CCL a score of 2 - 3, instead of 4 - 5. See where I'm going with this?

 

Why would you think Mrs. Neurosurgeon would expect Carnival to be a premium line and grade it to that standard? I really think you are over analyzing the reviews and aren't giving credit to the reviewers intelligence.

 

I sail both Carnival and HAL, my favorite lines and expect, pay for and receive two very different cruise experiences, and rate them accordingly.

 

I see your point, but if she was a young mother with several kids she may book and sail Carnival just for the relaxed, laid back family atmosphere.

[Deckhandoug]

Here's a thought,

What if MSC just does not appeal to the American market?

Maybe Americans just try it and don't go back?

Does it make it a bad cruiseline?..or is it just not what they are used to.

 

How do Europeans rank MSC?

 

I think they would relegated to a niche market in the sates, catering primarily to Europeans coming over for Holiday.

 

Doesn't make it a bad product at all. It's not a "bad" product, but with my personal experience I will be much more likely to book a line I like better than MSC.

 

Some people think I'm crazy because we like Carnival, apparently they had some real food problems before we got into cruising. We haven't had any and think it is a good, inexpensive value for the dollar. So what I'm trying to say is there is every reason to believe MSC can change if it want's to.

[Zambini]

Funny stuff, Andrew. I mean Miss Risotto and company.

 

Okay, you win. Reviews matter. But I'm curious, why this mission to preach the gospel of avoid MSC??? Maybe they are bad (I'll find out soon enough), but it seems odd to me that you are consumed by this. Please explain. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

But I'm curious, why this mission to invalidate the reviews??? it seems odd to me that you are consumed by this. Please explain. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Towel Critter]

Hear Ye, Hear Ye...

 

I regret to inform you, my esteemed colleagues, that this will indeed be my last post in this somewhat ill conceived and definitively controversial thread. My services are required elsewhere. But before I diminish I wish to thank each of you for taking part in this experiment. You have, in part, taught me the errors of my ways, and hopefully, in a small way way, perhaps I of yours. In leaving I would like offer my last will and testament to you, my friends:

 

To Andrew, I do hereby leave all my emoticons. Use them wisely and for good. They are good emoticons and will serve you well.:mad::eek::confused::rolleyes:

 

To Zambini, I leave my cunning wit and unmatched intellect (:D), not that you want for either, but I know that you will take good care of them and not allow them to fall into disrepair.

 

To the rest of you, my friends for a brief season, I leave this wish: May all your itineraries remain in tact and may your ice bucket always be full!

 

Caio

[AndrewK]

... My services are required elsewhere ...

 

Enjoy your upcoming cruises ... and perhaps come back and write a review.