A review of reviews

[Towel Critter]

Common sense tells me that, in general, happy people have happy cruises and write positive reviews, whereas unhappy people have unhappy cruises and write negative reviews. Of course their are exceptions, but I believe this to be the case in general.

 

Then there are those who have an underlying agenda.

 

Lastly - and this is probably the smallest group - there are those who make an effort to be fair and balanced.

 

I think many, if not all, of us have the ability to discern between these four types of reviews.

[AndrewK]

OK, I'll bite ... although this looks like yet another trolling exercise.

 

My wife and I lead a comfortable and contented life. We're happy people. We've been on dozens of cruises and land holidays and we've been entirely satisfied with all of them ... until Poesia. Even then, we didn't exactly walk around all day with a little black cloud above our heads. We enjoyed the holiday ... we laughed and joked and joined in ... but an accumulation of issues was enough for us to realise we could do better elsewhere.

 

I really can't agree that the majority of reviews are a result of personalities.

 

I'm happy to be judged by members. My review could probably be considered "negative" but if you knew me you would understand that I'm far from being an unhappy person. Read my review at:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=73486

 

In contrast, another review was posted a couple of days after mine. It appears to make direct reference to my review. The writer gives MSC a *****+ rating and is overwhelmingly positive about MSC (although not very positive about those who dared to be critical).

Their review can be found at:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=73598

 

So, who's the "happy" person?

Who has the "agenda"?

[Towel Critter]

Andrew, you seem to have taken this personally. I assure you my post was not aimed at any individual, but was simply my take on reviews. If you are one of the exceptions that I mentioned, good for you. Happy cruising!

[AndrewK]

... Andrew, you seem to have taken this personally ...

 

No, not at all. I'm just trying to illustrate that broad generalisations such as "happy people have happy cruises and write positive reviews, whereas unhappy people have unhappy cruises and write negative reviews" are not really very meaningful. I think it's a bit unfair to brand the majority of those who were less than satisfied with MSC as being "unhappy" people.

 

When we rely on the written word we miss out on all the usual clues such as tone of voice and facial expression ... and it's easy to misjudge and misconstrue.

 

I could say there appears to be no shortage of overtly positive postings here from some clearly very "uptight and obsessive" people ... and no shortage of negative opinions from people who seem quite happy, rational and relaxed ... but that would be just as inaccurate as "unhappy people write negative reviews"

[timh111]

I like to consider the reviews I have posted as fair and balanced. To be perfectly honest, I have REALLY never had a BAD cruise. I describe a bad cruise as having abandon ship!! You can't complain about things you have no control over. I have had occasions where events happened such as back in 1990 when we were on the Carnival Celebration and one of the ships turbo-chargers broke down. That caused us to sail at 1/2 the max speed causing us to have a change of itinerary. It did NOT ruin our cruise. And it was our 1st cruise. I think the biggest reason people post negative reviews is because they spend too much time comparing that cruise to a previous one they were on. It could also be because they have read bad reviews before sailing about the ship they were on (thus starting their cruise negatively)and looked for those faults. Then, there are those that NO MATTER what you do, they aren't happy unless they are miserable!! They will ALWAYS find something, ANYTHING to complain about. I go on every cruise open minded.:cool:

[Zambini]

This thread is just another intelligence insulting attempt to explain away the poor reviews of MSC.

 

Give the members of cruise critic a little more credit, painting reviewers in such broad strokes smells of trying to assuage your well placed concern of booking with MSC.

 

Plenty of posters on here have posted good and bad reviews, and are the majority of reviewers.

 

Again, an insult to the intelligence of the reviewers.

[AndrewK]

... I think the biggest reason people post negative reviews is because they spend too much time comparing that cruise to a previous one they were on ...

 

Ummm ... isn't that rather the whole point of Cruise Critic? ... to explain to other members how things compare between various offerings in the cruise market. I think it would be very difficult to review a cruise experience without comparing it to some sort of baseline.

[timh111]

Ummm ... isn't that rather the whole point of Cruise Critic? ... to explain to other members how things compare between various offerings in the cruise market. I think it would be very difficult to review a cruise experience without comparing it to some sort of baseline.

Ummmm...NO!!! For instance, people will compare a show on ship #1 as being better than when they sailed on ship #2 and will continue with the review, BASHING the whole cruise on ship #2 because of that! I read a review once that someone had made BASHING a ship because they arrived 10 minutes late and had to sit in the balcony!! They went on to say that never happened to them before on other ships and would not recommend this ship because of that!! See where I'm going here?? Thanks for trying to straighten me out though.....:confused:

[Zambini]

Ummmm...NO!!! For instance, people will compare a show on ship #1 as being better than when they sailed on ship #2 and will continue with the review, BASHING the whole cruise on ship #2 because of that! I read a review once that someone had made BASHING a ship because they arrived 10 minutes late and had to sit in the balcony!! They went on to say that never happened to them before on other ships and would not recommend this ship because of that!! See where I'm going here?? Thanks for trying to straighten me out though.....:confused:

 

It's not the reason for cruise critic?:confused::confused:

 

I'm not understanding you, what do you see as the reason for cruise critic if not Andrews description? I thought he nailed it.

 

Why are you the judge to decide reviews aren't "correct" or "worthy"?:confused:

 

It is THEIR opinion, hence, they have a right to post it even if you don't agree with it. Just because their criteria is different than yours doesn't make it invalid.

 

It seems some of you don't want to hear ANY bad reviews, reminds me of the "all our children are above average" mentality, an impossible situation.

[AndrewK]

To be honest, I haven't seen too many examples of the sort of thing you mention. I know it happens, but to suggest that it's the "biggest reason people post negative reviews" is stretching things a bit in my opinion.

 

I really loathe the "bashing" label. The majority of reviews I read here seem to be from people with perfectly realistic expectations and simply relate personal, factual experiences ... and often appropriately compare those experiences to other cruise lines and other cruises.

 

Read the reviews I posted links to earlier and ask yourself ... who's reviewing and who's ranting?

[Towel Critter]

I seem to have opened a can of worms :-). In my defense, I formed the opinion I have about amateur reviews because I couldn't tell you the number of reviews of cruises I have been on that made me say, huh? Were they on the same ship I was on? Nowadays, I take every review with a grain of salt. I've read some well written, well thought out, and informative reviews on CC, but those are in the minority. I no longer give "opinions" a second thought in a review, but scour them for factual information, things like dinner times, types of shows, musical options, etc.. It works for me.

 

My review of reviews is, I must admit, also an opinion. So agree, or disagree, as you see fit. I don't have a problem with either choice. Opinion, after all, is a bountiful commodity, and not cherished by anyone but it's owner.

 

Carry on...

 

Oh, and happy sailing!

[Towel Critter]

@Andrew.

 

I took the time to read one of your reviews. Firstly, let me say I'm sorry you didn't get the itinerary you anticipated. I've suffered through gutted and changed itineraries too. It's dissapointing for sure. With that said, I took away two main impressions from the review (first link in your post). The first and most obvious thing to me is that you are intelligent and express yourself well in written words. The second most obvious thing to me was - and I hesitate to say it, because I don't know you and could be misunderstanding your intent - you seem to have a bias against Italians. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

 

Exibit A. You mentioned that the ship was Italian in trying to excuse rude behavior by fellow passengers. Huh?

 

Exibit B. Then later, you made use of a sterotypical, written Italian accent.

 

If I had only found one such instance of sterotyping, I might have dismissed it. But I found two... in one fairly short review. Know that I am NOT Italian, and have never found myself in a position to defend the Italians as a whole before now, so I have no agenda. Also know that I realize I could be mistaken in my interpretation of your words. I do hope that is the case, but it seemed obvious to me, without having anticipated, nor desired to find such a thing.

 

But that aside, the review did give me the impression you were trying to be fair with the Poesia and her staff. In fact, your review didn't cause me any trepidation at all about my upcoming cruise on the Poesia. She sounds very much like the typical economy cruise liner.

 

Please take nothing I've said personally. We're talking opinion, impressions, and interpretation here - nebulous stuff, to say the least. I DO hope I'm wrong about your bias towards the Italian people, and look forward to you convincing me otherwise.

[AndrewK]

... I DO hope I'm wrong about your bias towards the Italian people, and look forward to you convincing me otherwise.

 

Yes, you are utterly wrong and have completely misinterpreted my meaning. Suffice to say that:

 

(A) If anything, my first remark was actually in defence of the Italian way of doing things. Fellow passengers (of all nationalities) weren't the problem. Some can be annoying but we pretty much expected that ... and accepted it because we're quite familiar with European culture. What we didn't expect was to find the staff behaving similarly.

 

(B) My attempt to imitate the Maitre d' was an (admittedly not terribly good) attempt to convey the rude and dismissive tone in which he spoke (actually, shouted) to us. I wish there was a better way to illustrate how badly he lost it ... and if I was telling the story to you face-to-face you would probably understand me better. I sympathise with the fact that his job isn't easy ... but there's no excuse for treating paying customers that way. His nationality didn't enter into it.

 

© My review was published many weeks ago and there have been a number of supportive postings as well as dismissive challenges made in relation to it ... but nobody else has managed to misinterpret it to the point of making suggestions of racism. Of the last few Princess cruises I've done, many of the crew and officers have been Italian ... including the Captain and the Head Chef ... and I can assure you that those cruises were chalk and cheese compared to to our MSC experience.

 

I'm not terribly happy with the suggestion that I need to "convince" you of something. A common tactic used on these forums is to suggest that those who post anything less than complimentary about MSC are attacking Italians and their culture. I look forward to you convincing me that you're not simply jumping on that banal bandwagon.

[cruisingcanadian]

Hi Andrew,I see you had an interesting Saturday;)...it is a full time job to handle these boards,isn't it? But you are doing great...keep it up!:D

[AndrewK]

Hi Andrew,I see you had an interesting Saturday;)...it is a full time job to handle these boards,isn't it? But you are doing great...keep it up!:D

 

Actually, it's a lovely, lazy Sunday summer afternoon here in Australia. Just went down the beach with daughter and grandkids for a barbeque and to take the dog for a walk. Lucky wife is on Sun Princess bound for New Zealand with one of the kids at the moment ... so I'm at home dog sitting because I'm not retired ... and I've run out of holiday leave!

 

... and yes, it never ends on these boards does it! :D

[cruisingcanadian]

Actually, it's a lovely, lazy Sunday summer afternoon here in Australia. Just went down the beach with daughter and grandkids for a barbeque and to take the dog for a walk. Lucky wife is on Sun Princess bound for New Zealand with one of the kids at the moment ... so I'm at home dog sitting because I'm not retired ... and I've run out of holiday leave!

 

... and yes, it never ends on these boards does it! :D

 

Sounds lovely....unlike Toronto in December:eek:. Planning and dreaming of my next cruise to warm destinations helps a bit.

Enjoy your summer Sunday!

[Towel Critter]

Andrew:

 

Racism? No, I'm not implying that at all. I apologize. What I saw were two instances of using stereotypes. And you did use them, in my opinion, whether you meant to or not. But that doesn't automatically make one a racist. Most, if not all, people use stereotypes. It's such a handy device to use in categorizing and recognizing groups of people that the temptation is great. The problem with stereotyping is that it isn't 100% accurate, nor anywhere close to that, and people dislike being lumped into a one-size-fits-all group. But you already know all this, sorry for lecturing - just trying to clarify my accusations.

 

Perhaps "convince" was the wrong choice of words? It seems so, as you found it offensive. I'll rephrase: I look forward to you correcting my impression that you are biased toward Italian people." I honestly hoped you would, by the way. And you have. But you might want to avoid imitated accents and attaching certain social tendencies to groups in the future. If I recognized them as stereotypes, I'm sure others did too. Just a thought.

 

I'm not jumping on any bandwagon, I assure you. I've only been reading and posting on the MSC board for a handful of days. I'm not yet familiar enough with the local posters to jump on a bandwagon. I'm not really a jumper on of bandwagons anyway. And I have nothing to gain by defending MSC. I'm not a loyal patron; my upcoming cruise will be my first experience with them. Maybe they will turn out to be as bad as some insist. Maybe not. My wife and I will have an enjoyable vacation either way (unless the captain runs us into another ship and sinks us. Then I might take issue. lol).

 

Andrew, you seem to be an intelligent guy, and probably a nice one - judging from some of your chit chat with friends on here. I didn't start this thread to make an enemy, just to express my opinion on amateur reviews, and open a lively conversation/debate. I hope I haven't made an enemy of you. If I have, I regret even starting this thread. It's all just opinion on here, and at the end of the day, I, nor anyone else, is going to say anything revolutionary or earth shattering. I certainly haven't said, or read, anything on here valuable enough to make it worthwhile gaining an enemy.

 

I hope your next cruise, regardless of cruiseline, goes more smoothly for you. My next one too, for that matter. My last one, Hurricaine Tomas decided to gut and rearrange our itinerary for us. lol. Ship happens. Peace and happy sailing.

[Towel Critter]

I like to consider the reviews I have posted as fair and balanced. To be perfectly honest, I have REALLY never had a BAD cruise. I describe a bad cruise as having abandon ship!! You can't complain about things you have no control over. I have had occasions where events happened such as back in 1990 when we were on the Carnival Celebration and one of the ships turbo-chargers broke down. That caused us to sail at 1/2 the max speed causing us to have a change of itinerary. It did NOT ruin our cruise. And it was our 1st cruise. I think the biggest reason people post negative reviews is because they spend too much time comparing that cruise to a previous one they were on. It could also be because they have read bad reviews before sailing about the ship they were on (thus starting their cruise negatively)and looked for those faults. Then, there are those that NO MATTER what you do, they aren't happy unless they are miserable!! They will ALWAYS find something, ANYTHING to complain about. I go on every cruise open minded.:cool:

I agree wholeheartedly. You must have similar experiences to mine with reviews and cruises. More than a few times I've read a hyper-critical review from someone who was on the same cruise as me and thought, Wow! They couldn't have been on the same ship. But they were on the same ship, they just perceived it differently. Perhaps our state of mind influences how we perceive things. What am I saying! lol Of course it influences it.

[AndrewK]

... open a lively conversation/debate ...

 

Yes ... we get plenty of those here :D

... and unfortunately that's probably why people tend to overreact. I apologise if I appear a bit harsh. I'm happy to debate and discuss but there's been a significant history of people being rather unreasonably challenged here if they post something which casts MSC in a less than ideal light. Sadly it can get quite irrational, nasty ... and personal at times.

 

... I hope I haven't made an enemy of you ...

 

Absolutely not. As said, I apologise for appearing defensive to the point of harshness ... but some of us have been whacked so often we're somewhat wary.

 

In regard to "attaching certain social tendencies to groups". That's usually the angle pushed here by supporters of MSC. More often than not when someone here complains about the service they are told that they should accept it because that's "the Italian way".

 

I expect Italians to jump into the lift before I can get out or to elbow into the buffet queue ... and also the Germans and the French. I'm used to it and it isn't bias toward or against any particular nationality. While I may not particularly like it, I readily accept that standing in an orderly queue or waiting your turn is as odd to some people as pushing in is to others. There's nothing derogatory intended in "attaching certain social tendencies", it's simply reality ... not stereotyping. Try standing politely in line for a shuttle bus in Milan and you'll be standing there until the day you die. Truly a case of "when in Rome" ... you need to be as "assertive" and "pushy" as the locals or you simply won't survive.

 

What I don't accept is the staff of a cruise ship behaving that way. When staff leave you in no doubt as to how insignificant you are in their world, there's something seriously amiss.

 

You may want to look at some links from another member (a quite vocal supporter of MSC) in regard to Italian culture and how it is perceived:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=27076314&postcount=19

 

 

... unless the captain runs us into another ship ...

 

Well ... there is a precedent! Poesia collided with Costa Classica near Dubrovnik in 2008 but don't worry, there was only superficial damage, no injuries and not really anyone's "fault". :D

[Towel Critter]

The following is an example of why I started this thread:

 

 

"This is the first time cruising on Carnival and the Carnival Miracle. Worst cruise I have taken yet. We had a first time cruiser with us and if it were not for talking to other passengers on board this would have been her last one too.

 

 

 

The goods things were Tony Ray. life saver in the Gotham lounge. Thanks Tony for making a bad time tolerable. Other than that the food had no variety in the morning and afternoons. Eating in the main dinning at night, at least I got change there. although one night the pasta was way undercooked. Nick and Nora steak house was the best meal I had on the ship. I was not going to pay 30 dollars every night just to have a great meal.

 

 

 

 

There were some goods. The cabin personnel kept the stateroom clean and great towel animals.

 

 

 

 

Dinning on Deck 9 was a night mare the first couple of times. after learning which line, and I do mean lines, to go to so I could have something half way decent to eat. There was no variety. Cakes were dry like they were made a few days ago.

 

 

 

 

My conclusion is to chalk this cruise up to experience. One that I will not pass along"

 

This is a review of a cruise on the CCL Miracle in November, 2010. (I'm not attaching a name to it, but it's there to find if you so desire.) I spent eight days on this exact ship in late October, 2010 and had a great time -despite a nature induced itinerary change of major proportions. My wife and I had zero issues with the food served in any venue. We stood in line to eat lunch too at times, but took it in stride. Don't most of us expect there to be lines on a large, filled to capacity ship? I thought the variety in food was more than sufficient, and as for "dry cakes," perhaps she did get one, but that wasn't my experience. If a dessert was dry I doubt seriously it was because it was old. More likely it was a preparation issue on that particular day.

 

Having been on the same ship a mere one to three weeks earlier than this reviewer, I have to deduce that the two different experiences most likely results from different attitudes and different perceptions. What other explanation is there?

 

This is why I don't put a lot of stock in customer reviews. I see grossly contradicting reviews not only on CC, but on other cruise sites, and also on every product site that accepts customer reviews. Such reviews are too often just folks venting. Let them vent, but it is of little use to those of us reading. It only makes it more difficult for potential customers to make a sound judgement. And don't think for a minute that spies from competing companies don't visit product sites and offer up their own imaginary reviews. It happens.

[Towel Critter]

Andrew:

 

Nice post. I'm glad you don't hate me! :-) I've enjoyed our discourse, eventhough there were some misinterpretations from us both. As you said, misunderstanding is common in a word only setting. I hope our next meeting goes better. Friends are so much more pleasant than enemies.

 

Please see my post below for more explanation as to why I stated this thread.

 

Randall

[Zambini]

The following is an example of why I started this thread:

 

 

"This is the first time cruising on Carnival and the Carnival Miracle. Worst cruise I have taken yet. We had a first time cruiser with us and if it were not for talking to other passengers on board this would have been her last one too.

 

 

 

The goods things were Tony Ray. life saver in the Gotham lounge. Thanks Tony for making a bad time tolerable. Other than that the food had no variety in the morning and afternoons. Eating in the main dinning at night, at least I got change there. although one night the pasta was way undercooked. Nick and Nora steak house was the best meal I had on the ship. I was not going to pay 30 dollars every night just to have a great meal.

 

 

 

 

There were some goods. The cabin personnel kept the stateroom clean and great towel animals.

 

 

 

 

Dinning on Deck 9 was a night mare the first couple of times. after learning which line, and I do mean lines, to go to so I could have something half way decent to eat. There was no variety. Cakes were dry like they were made a few days ago.

 

 

 

 

My conclusion is to chalk this cruise up to experience. One that I will not pass along"

 

This is a review of a cruise on the CCL Miracle in November, 2010. (I'm not attaching a name to it, but it's there to find if you so desire.) I spent eight days on this exact ship in late October, 2010 and had a great time -despite a nature induced itinerary change of major proportions. My wife and I had zero issues with the food served in any venue. We stood in line to eat lunch too at times, but took it in stride. Don't most of us expect there to be lines on a large, filled to capacity ship? I thought the variety in food was more than sufficient, and as for "dry cakes," perhaps she did get one, but that wasn't my experience. If a dessert was dry I doubt seriously it was because it was old. More likely it was a preparation issue on that particular day.

 

Having been on the same ship a mere one to three weeks earlier than this reviewer, I have to deduce that the two different experiences most likely results from different attitudes and different perceptions. What other explanation is there?

 

This is why I don't put a lot of stock in customer reviews. I see grossly contradicting reviews not only on CC, but on other cruise sites, and also on every product site that accepts customer reviews. Such reviews are too often just folks venting. Let them vent, but it is of little use to those of us reading. It only makes it more difficult for potential customers to make a sound judgement. And don't think for a minute that spies from competing companies don't visit product sites and offer up their own imaginary reviews. It happens.

 

Well, perhaps they have higher standards than you and they did have that experience. I own a pleasure boat and I can assure you that some weekends are more "fun" than others when we take it out, and I know it's the same with bigger ships because I've cruised the same ship multiple times, each with a different "vibe".

 

Carnival Splendor or HAL Ryndam recently are two extreme, but good examples, both cruises were significantly different than the previous weeks.

 

Andrew, you bring up a good point:

 

MSC loyalist: Italian is good, you just aren't sophisticated enough to understand it and if you say you don't like it you are racist.

 

For someone that doesn't care for the reviews it seems you have spent a lot of time on them. I find it interesting that you think only yours can be " correct", and you are going to GREAT lengths to explain why everyone Else's is wrong.

[Norwegian Cruiser 73]

Common sense tells me that, in general, happy people have happy cruises and write positive reviews, whereas unhappy people have unhappy cruises and write negative reviews. Of course their are exceptions, but I believe this to be the case in general.

 

Then there are those who have an underlying agenda.

 

Lastly - and this is probably the smallest group - there are those who make an effort to be fair and balanced.

 

I think many, if not all, of us have the ability to discern between these four types of reviews.

 

Thanks for posting this, I have been thinking much the same myself. :)

[Towel Critter]

Well, perhaps they have higher standards than you and they did have that experience. I own a pleasure boat and I can assure you that some weekends are more "fun" than others when we take it out, and I know it's the same with bigger ships because I've cruised the same ship multiple times, each with a different "vibe".

 

Carnival Splendor or HAL Ryndam recently are two extreme, but good examples, both cruises were significantly different than the previous weeks.

 

Andrew, you bring up a good point:

 

MSC loyalist: Italian is good, you just aren't sophisticated enough to understand it and if you say you don't like it you are racist.

 

For someone that doesn't care for the reviews it seems you have spent a lot of time on them. I find it interesting that you think only yours can be " correct", and you are going to GREAT lengths to explain why everyone Else's is wrong.

 

Greeting Zambini,

 

Nice to meet you! You are correct; two different weekends on the same boat can yield different experiences. But what has changed? Not the "boat," but the one perceiving the boat. We all have moods and different outlooks at times. And those attitudes color our perception, which is why amateur reviews are so untrustworthy.

 

I'm certain that some have higher standards than I, just as some, undoubtedly, have lower standards. Therein lies yet another problem with reviews. If every reviewer would state upfront, "I cruise mostly on highend cruiselines and am comparing this particular cruiseline with Cunard, or state that I cruise mostly on budget cruiselines and am comparing this cruiseline with Carnival, that would go a long way toward making reviews more meaningful. I've read a few reviews where this was done, more or less, but it's a rarity.

 

As for the racism thing, I believe Andrew and I cleared that up in earlier posts.

 

Yes, I have spent a lot of time reading reviews of late, as I have a cruise coming up with a cruiseline I'm unfamiliar with. I've read many because that is necessary to discern the truth. One review, when not in the context of other reviews is meaningless - for reasons I've stated over and over on this thread.

 

Finally, you may be correct that my opinion of reviews is wrong. Such is the nature of opinion. I believe my opinion to be correct, but does that mean it is??? Not neccesarily. I'm human too; my moods, attitudes, experiences, etc.. colors my perception as well.

 

Thanks for joining in!

[Towel Critter]

Thanks for posting this, I have been thinking much the same myself. :)

You are quite welcome! Please note I said, "in general." Some seem to have overlooked this and have taken issue with me. It's nice to know that you share my opinion. Great meeting you. Happy cruising!